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Thought I saw Jon Stewart's point of view last night. "Clowns don't take the field."

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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:50 AM
Original message
Thought I saw Jon Stewart's point of view last night. "Clowns don't take the field."
After the Stewart / Colbert Rally to Restore Sanity, I thought, as I think a lot of people did,

1) Great -- lots of decent people, notably liberals, coming together to mock the insanity we've seen take over the national debate, and, by the way, twice as many as showed up to help Glenn Beck reclaim Civil Rights for white people, or whatever the hell that supposed to be about, but

2) Stewart seemed to stretch, again, to suggest that rhetorical insanity is equal among left and right commentators, which is clearly not the case. E.g. Hannity's or Beck's blatant lies are not the same as Olbermann being strident or shrill. These differences are real, and they're important. I'd seen Stewart stretching on this subject before, straining particularly hard to call out Rachel Maddow over some emphasis or another she put on a story about the Haitian disaster. It rankled then, because it didn't ring true.

I still think that.

But in listening to the interview last night -- which clearly suffered quite a bit due to Stewart's illness -- the man was GRAY -- I heard him say that he sees the role of a satirist as a specific thing; a discipline unto itself, which first of all must not appear to be an advocate for ANY side. He's trying quite deliberately not to contribute to the left / right dichotomy that so much of the cable TV noise has devolved into. There are reasons for that.

For one, I thought he made a point that the dichotomy itself is at least partly false, and has become a convenient, oversimplified narrative for the 24-hour cable cycle. There are of course real pollitical differences that we're all talking about for good reason. But like any dichotomy, viewing everything through the left / right lens oversimplies and dumbs things down. It can be blinding when people either embrace or dismiss something as being from their camp or "the other guys." Everything that needs discussion doesn't fit into a liberal /conservative box.

Again, the man was ILL. But my takeaway was he sees his role a satirist to be specific. His process is supposed to be apolitical. A satirist, or comic, or clown, is there to articulate and ridicule the Stupid in society. 'Cause Stupid is funny. Now, if a particular group falls into the Stupid category more often than another, so be it. Stewart made the point that the Daily Show really does NOT treat Fox and MSNBC equally, not because of whatever we might call Fox's ideology, but just because it is more Stupid, and thus more funny, more often.

The other point that flowed from that was that becoming a partisan of any kind is immediately limiting. Stewart talked about not "taking the field" the way Rachel does. If he made his show about Liberals vs. Conservatives, and pressing for a win of one over the other, he'd just be dismissed, the way anything now that can be identified as being one or the other is dismissed by one side. He'd become part of the "noise" of the left / right narrative and lose the comic mojo that defines him.

I think he's right about that. Rachel pushed back, and well, I think, to say that while she publicly self-identifies as a "Big L / little L Liberal," she's very serious about being honest and fair, but I also took Stewart's point that Rachel using a comic tone from a political point of view is not the same *process* as a comedian ruthlessly looking to make fun whenever and wherever it rings true.

As he pointed out, Stewart's position as a comic is unfair. He claims (rightly) to be a clown, and clowns don't "take the field." He doesn't risk being on the "wrong" side of things, because his only argument is to be funny. But that's no small thing, because if it's funny, he's RIGHT. He didn't express this as well as he might have as he wobbled nauseatedly in his chair, but comedy is a kind of self-adjusting truth filter. He doesn't have to argue that something is worthy of ridicule. If he ridicules it, and people laugh, his job is done.

That's a powerful thing because, as Rachel recently pointed out, it's become easy to dismiss someone stating a fact as being a dishonest partisan. It's much harder to dismiss a laugh.

Gvien that, I still think the critique of false equivalency critique was legitimate, because I still think the Daily Show has stretched and strained at times to make sure liberal Stupid doesn't get a free pass where conservative Stupid gets nailed. I suspect someone on the show was tasked with finding a liberal source to poke fun at, and some kind of informal quota arose to try to be "fair."

But Stewart's also right that he's not actually responsible for being fair. It's not up to him to demonstrate whether conservative-flavored Stupid is more important or more common that liberal-flavored Stupid. That's OUR job. We can figure out, for example, what if may mean that the "Rally to Restore Sanity" was strangely free of Tea Partiers. Or that there simply is no liberal equivalent of Glenn Beck or Sharron Angle.

But I think Jon also harbors a hope if everyone focused on laughing at the Stupid itself, wherever we find it, that we might all get a little smarter.

I think he's got a point.

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Dyler Turden Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R.
Thanks for taking the time to post this.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. The jester can only be successful as a jester so long as nobody takes
him too seriously.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good points--even Stewart has fallen for "fair and balanced" as opposed to "objective."
He has the luxury of NOT falling for it--seriously, do TeaBaggers and FreeKKKreeps watch TDS?

I doubt it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. When he makes light of Rachel's work, he enables the far right.
We quit watching his show a long time ago, but I did watch the rally.

For years the DLC has made fun of those of us on the left, and Stewart does the same.

It is dangerous to marginalize the few voices we have on the left. I think it may be Viacom speaking.
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Dyler Turden Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I didn't see that.
Actually, at the end of the interview, he told her how much he liked her. After the interview, Rachel went on to emphasize she was still a Stewart fan.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Exactly. It was no "Crossfire" takedown on Stewart's part. He's a fan.
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 01:57 PM by DirkGently
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. It's more dangerous, I think to be so humorless as to condemn anyone who "makes light."

When he's doing his job, Stewart isn't after "the far left." He's after the ridiculous. I thought his poke at Rachel fell flat because you had to strain to see what was supposed to be silly about what Rachel was saying. Good satire is self-limiting in that way. It doesn't work if it isn't on target.

I disagree that Stewart has the power to "marginalize" voices on the left for the same reason, and also because he isn't an authority. He comments, and it either works, or it doesn't.

As I said, I'd agree the Daily Show has stretched out of some apparent wish to confirm its left / right neutrality, but I'm not going to become bitter and refuse to listen to one of the sharpest commentators in the country because he doesn't toe some imaginary ideological line.
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sally cat Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe he should have said, before the rally, "don't take this, or me, seriously". He wants it both
ways, methinks.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. I think the rally was a tightrope over the chasm of how "real" comedy can become. He wobbled a bit.
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. He's also trying to back away from his obvious influence.
Doesn't seem he's too comfortable with it.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Things are really, really bad when the Left look to court jesters for leadership
You make a good point
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Sure. A comic can take his job seriously. If he takes *himself* seriously, it's over.

I think that's what Stewart fears most. He probably wakes up in a sweat after dreaming a billion zombified liberals chased him down the street chanting, "Lead us, John Stewart! Lead us!"
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. "The voice of a generation!"
:*
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Sounds like Cobain's suicide note, doesn't it?
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I had Dylan in mind
who survived, but barely, and is still doing his thing.
Jon is in another category but obviously feeling his way
through the darkness. I also think of Lenny Bruce and
even Dave Chapelle, who had to get away a while. I
remember the amazing interview on Bravo where Dave
was talking about the change he went through when he
realized some guy was laughing "for the wrong reason",
something like that. Jon is very interesting man in a
very interesting situation. I hope he comes to realize
that comedy is/can be one of the highest forms if not
the highest form of human communication.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. That's right. Didn't witness Dylan's panic first hand, so I thought of Kurt. Baez is still p*ssed he
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 02:10 PM by DirkGently
(Dylan) distanced himself from the Civil Rights movement because he didn't want it to define him. Selfish, or self-preservation?

Maybe that's part of what's going on here. At the root, Stewart is an artist. Maddow is a wonk. Others are activists. All different species. People want their heroes to be one thing or the other.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. "At the root, Stewart is an artist." DING!
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. John could have been a voice for Truth, instead he chose Truthiness.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Perhaps we need both.
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Superb Post! Kudos!
I like Jon Stewart, but sally cat is absolutely correct. Jon wants it both ways. FWIW, I think the HBO series "Not Necessarily the News" did a better job at being fake news.

I think Jon may aspire to be Bill Maher, but Bill is much, much closer to a commentator who uses satire, like Rachel or Keith, than he is to Stewart.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Was he funny?
Wherefore art thou, Lenny Bruce.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. I happen to agree with Stewart. We are too polarized as a nation. I live in a rural community and I
have to interact with lots of Republicans and TeaBaggers. We do discuss politics and they are really pissed. Not so much at Obama or the Democrats but with the whole process. They think it's all corrupt and they want to "take their government back". They see the Pukes and the Dems as doing exactly the same thing. Whoring for money and ignoring the problems the country faces. In a one-on-one with many of these folks, I find that our opinions really aren't that different.

I agree with Stewart the the 24 hours news cycle is corrupting our view of the country and each other. As he suggested, we can vote with our remotes and I have stopped watching even Keith and Rachel. I already know who I support and what my priorities are and I don't need to watch the outrage of the day. It only depresses me and I can't say it really informs me much since the next day there always is another outrage.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. We're mostly not a country of cartoonish ideologues. Imagine if we all laughed at insanity together.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Actually we do. My neighbors and I have some good discussions and laugh about our opposing
positions. After they are finished going on and on about Obama and socialism, I laugh and tell them that we will never agree on much because Obama is WAY too right wing CONSERVATIVE for me. They laugh and we go on with what we were doing to begin with. We are not a nation of ideologues, we are a nation of ideological 24 hour "news".
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Do you ever try to politely educate them? As to what the "libruls" are actually about?
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. All the time and it amazes them how much we have in common. I'm just more radical than they are
which also amazes them. LOL.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. I'm on a federal grand jury where the foreperson is a tea party supporter...
A couple of gentlemen across from me talk about Obama the socialist and go on with the rest of the mythical narrative about him.

When we get to work, though, politics are nowhere. We're about the evidence and the rest doesn't matter.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Good point. Most people don't spend their whole lives worrying about left and right, only the 24
hour cable "news" programs. It's all they got. Without the daily "latest breaking news scandal" they got nada. Turn them all off.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. I have to do that sometimes. I find Stewart / Colbert can be an antidote to cable news.
Better to laugh than rage.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Me too. I never miss Stewart or Colbert because I still get the news but I get to laugh and have fun
When I watch 24 hour cable, I just get angry.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. when the chips fall, he shows a spinal deficiency.
we have a large section of the tent for those of the spinal problems. no biggie
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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Of course there is no liberal equivalent of Glenn Beck or Sharron Angle, but when Jon uses Keith in

a montage with Glenn, it makes it seem as if Jon is equating Keith with Glenn. And I'll agree that Keith is a blowhard and occasionally has a "stupid moment". But to lump him in with Beck is just egregious.

I don't think Stewart should have any sacred cows, but I also think we shouldn't let him go too far and compare us with the extreme right.

I think he has a point about progressives being generally dismissive to the 'baggers, but I really think reaching out to them would be dignifying some of the evil things they stand for and I'm not ready to do that.

How much respect should a Latino pay Sharon Angle? You know?
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I still agree the critique is fair. Keith isn't Beck. But is it Stewart's job to remind us of that?

That's the distinction I think he was after. At least, it's the one I see. While Keith's not equivalent to nutty rightwingers -- he's not a liar, for starters -- he has had his over-the-top, and thus comedy-worthy moments. The SNL "Miss Precious Perfect" skit nailed that pretty well, and to his credit, no one laughed harder than Keith.

What I took away from the interview with Rachel was that Stewart takes his role as satirist very seriously, and he thinks that one of the rules of his job is that he doesn't stop the show to explain that while KO is occasionally ridiculous, Hannity and Beck, et al are insane liars, and that is not the same thing. Smart viewers will make the distinction on their own, as we here clearly do.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Agreed and when Stewart brought up the part about Rachel sniggering and making fun of the teabaggers
because they didn't know what the term meant on the street, I totally got his point. If she was truly objective, she would have very gently told them what it meant and suggest that perhaps they might now want to use it. Instead she was very dismissive and even arrogant about how stupid they were for not "getting it". I also feel that they are a bunch of lunatics but I don't believe that the way to get you message across to people is to deride them and talk down to them. Rachel and Keith may not be as bad but they are also guilty of that behavior. I know they are trying to counter FOX spin but by using similar tactics, they are in fact buying into the FOX agenda.

I think that's all Stewart was trying to say. Don't buy into the bull, we are all Americans and we can discuss these things without belittling each other. I agree with him. I'm tired of the hate and anger and I no longer want to watch anyone, right or left, that is helping to create the divisions among us. I don't see my conservative neighbors as OTHER. I see them as people who are trying to get along the same as the rest of us and people who I should learn to talk to and listen to.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. Best analysis yet.
:thumbsup:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. The irony is that he says it's his job to be critical
of 24 hour news "hype". At the same time, he's suggesting it should be abolished. At least, that's my take.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Sure. But like the dentist, he probably doesn't have to worry about putting himself out of a job.


:)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. But he appears to be trying.
;)
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Wouldn't it be nice if he embarrassed Fox out of existence?
(not holding his breath).

:D
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. They don't understand the concept of embarrassment.
Remember, they create their own reality. Though, it's a nice thought. :D
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Touché
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