Fellow woodchuck action liberals: do you agree with me about this general take on strategy?

[LoZoccolo]

I'm not against many of the things that progressives want, I just want them pursued in a way that doesn't destroy the gains already made, or the ones which look like they can be next attained.

[blondeatlast]

1. Give us an example. nt

[LoZoccolo]

3. Like that we should appreciate the fact that many of the blue dogs that were voted out

were replacing Republicans when they were elected, and did have a significant partisan voting record (unless someone wants to provide me with an example of a true DINO, but I haven't found one that withstands scrutiny).

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

9. How much more liberal legislation will those Republicans pass? n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. That is immaterial. Our loss is due to the blue dogs' recalcitrance,

not the Republican opposition. They made their own defeat inevitable. The ONLY way they could have preserved their seats would be to back the majority. Don't downgrade the stimulus and make most of it tax cuts - double the stimulus and get people spending and banks lending - and we'd see unemployment drop like a rock. Unhappy unemployed people blamed the government. People who were seeing positive changes in their own lives would not. Thanks, blue dogs.

HCR, watered down by the blue dogs to keep all the power in the hands of the insurance companies which then turned around and raised their rates yet again, could have had real competition built into it but for the opposition of the blue dogs. The right could rally the people against HCR because it was constructed in such a way as to make the people feel the pain of the rate hikes today, while holding off on most the benefits for another 4 years. Thanks, blue dogs.

Gitmo is still open because of the red state paranoia about muslims in our courtrooms which the blue dogs also bought into. Seeing the concentration camp in Cuba dismantled would have allowed us to see that the wars really are winding down, and that democracy and justice can triumph over international terrorism - is there any way that could reflect badly on the party in power? But the blue dogs refused to cooperate with the administration, making Obama's "1 year" promise null, Obama appear weak, and the party appear ineffective. Thanks, blue dogs.

These are just a sampling of the things that could have been done despite Republican opposition, if the blue dogs had not sabotaged the President's agenda.

Fuck em. We've been warning about this all along, and the result of their collaboration with the Republicans has resulted in EXACTLY the scenario the Democrats have predicted.

Republicans who change parties just to get into office on a (D) ticket are not Democrats. You want a definition of a Democrat? Somebody who supports the party platform, rather than opposes it.

[LoZoccolo]

15. And you know this

how?

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Let's see, what 14 million people did NOT show up at the polls?

Oh. That's right. 14 million 18-29 year olds who voted for Obama in 08 - THEY were the very often first time voters who supported a liberal platform and got, instead, a centrist agenda and RW Democratic opposition to THEIR beliefs.

Why didn't they show up?

If even a THIRD of them had showed, we'd have not lost the House.

[LoZoccolo]

18. How many of them were in blue dog districts? n/t

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

20. Let's take this out of the realm of circular reasoning and into something testable.

Which district would you say this happened in? You're uncited statistic is likely based on national numbers and you cannot conclude from it that it had an impact on blue dog districts, any blue dog district.

[LoZoccolo]

16. Also, which of the blue dogs is just like a Republican?

I still haven't been given one by anybody.

[Warpy]

11. You're correct

People are especially angry about the halfassed job that was done on health care reform, largely due to the intransigence of Blue Dogs.

Lieberman, who wasn't up for reelection, was the worst of the lot since he single handedly killed reducing the Medicare opt in age to 55, something that would have done an enormous amount of good and made the rest of the bill more palatable to the insurance industry. The last thing that industry wants is folks over 55 who have lived long enough to have chronic health issues.

Unfortunately, when they were disgusted enough to stay home, they effectively punished the House for what the Senate had actually done.

[leftstreet]

2. hehe...you said wood

[laughingliberal]

4. ROFL!! nt

[LoZoccolo]

6. My proclamations are so correct and my strategy is so keen that

my opposition has to resort to Beavis-and-Butthead-style jokes in an effort to detract attention from them.

[laughingliberal]

13. ROFL!!

Have you submitted a resume to Comedy Central? This stuff's better than the Onion!

:rofl:

[LoZoccolo]

21. As I expect, people can't really admit a reason for tearing down what others worked to accomplish.

I know a reason that people might be hiding: to do otherwise would require work. It's far easier to flog others for not working hard enough.

[leftstreet]

14. Indeed, you are far too clever for us to understand

:-)

[de novo]

30. Your opposition? Self aggrandize much?

[SidDithers]

5. K&R...nt

Sid

[meow mix]

7. progress has been at a stop for vastly to long

and its infuriating at this point.. each time the "compromising" is code for stopping us dead until the right can regain control.

[LoZoccolo]

10. No it hasn't.

There was not a Democratic congressperson who did not have a significant partisan voting record in opposition to the Republicans (unless you can point one out, but I'd evaluate the claim before you post it).

[asdjrocky]

22. You should really get some help.

When you constantly seek negative attention it says a lot about you, and what you really think of yourself.

If you just need someone to talk it out with, pm me and I'd be happy to help.

[LoZoccolo]

23. Where am I seeking negative attention?

I am elucidating what I think is the real point of conflict.

[asdjrocky]

27. You shouldn't lie.

Most of all, you shouldn't lie to yourself. I acknowledge what you are saying, but I can't be drawn into your personal conflict.

Be good to yourself.

[LoZoccolo]

32. I might be lying, but that still doesn't tell me how this post is supposed to attract

negative attention, whether or not I intend it to do so.

[asdjrocky]

36. I've offered.

Looks like you're not interested in having someone help you get off that treadmill you are stuck on.

Honestly, good luck to you.

[Enrique]

24. sounds just like the republicans

we care about the poor too, we really do...

[LoZoccolo]

25. I don't know what you mean by that. n/t

[Enrique]

26. they pretend their goals are the same as ours n/t

[LoZoccolo]

35. Didn't I just say that I pretty much the same goals?

The goals are rarely the conflict on DU.

[walldude]

28. Sounds very um...

Republican to me. "Yes we are willing to work with Obama as long as he does everything exactly the way we want."

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. I love his threads

They are memorial every time except for the last one
which will be soooo memorial.


I love the MTV generation.

[LoZoccolo]

34. That's not what I said. n/t

[walldude]

37. Really? Then please translate...

Because that's EXACTLY what it sounds like to me. Because you think that repealing DADT "might" not hold and it "might" ruin your day and it "might" make things worse, we should all just sit around and wait for.. who you? Obama? The Republicans? To decide when "it can be attained". If gays have to wait for people who's rights are already in place to determine when the "right time" is they will be waiting forever because for people like you the time is never right.

You come in here and post your little "woodchuck" message making sure everyone knows you are an "ACTION" liberal and we are all just whiners and complainers, doing our best to make Democrats look bad while you "ACTION" liberals are out there doing all the work. It's really quite hilarious.

[LoZoccolo]

38. What would be the political risk in trying to repeal DADT?

I don't think I've said anything about it, but OK, how does that fit here? If the repeal doesn't hold, it doesn't hold, but what else would that destroy? If nothing, then why do you think that I'm talking about it?

[de novo]

31. Which things that porgressives want are you against?

What gains are you worried about destroying?

[LoZoccolo]

33. Voting out Democrats in red or previously red districts. n/t

[ClassWarrior]

39. Who's advocating "voting anyone out?" The idea is to support progressives in primary runs...

...in all districts, and not fall for the bullshit that you need to dredge up a Rape-Publican Lite to win in a so-called "red" district. Because - guess what? - fake Rape-Publicans usually lose to real Rape-Publicans, unless they have a candidate with long coat talis, like Obama, at the top of the ticket.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

40. Hmmm... No answer?...

NGU.

[RetroLounge]

41. Oasis Sucks

and so do you.

:puke:

RL