Virginia Baptists condemn revisionist History and attacks on Church/State separation

[Adsos Letter]

source: AU

"When I read about some of things the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has done over the years – calling for boycotts of Disney parks and products, passing resolutions telling wives to be submissive to husbands, bashing gay people, etc. – I must remind myself that there are still plenty of good people who bear the Baptist name."

read more at: http://blog.au.org/2010/11/12/baptist-bulwark-virginia-‘messengers’-reaffirm-church-state-separation/

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DU generally exhibits a mix of reactions to Christianity and other religions, both Christian and non. Some make a distinction between the teachings of Jesus, and the religious institutions which claim his name. This right to free speech and opinion is, I think, celebrated by all of us here, and enshrined in our Constitution's First Amendment as one of the natural rights of humankind to be protected by government.

The same is true of the necessity of maintaining a distinction between the religious and political spheres in a secular republic, something I think we all recognize has been eroded and will face further assault under a Congress with an increased Republican influence.

We may not agree with the Virginia Baptists on any number of their doctrinal positions (for instance; I haven't researched their stance toward our LGBT brothers and sisters) or on their adherence to religious belief, period.

However, I hope we can recognize a distinction between this group and their larger SBC organization, and support those who take a stand against the attempt to redefine the United States as a Christian Nation, and to warn against the erosion of Church/State separation.

-AL-

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Guess there really are some Christians who do practice its tenets...

[Adsos Letter]

2. There are, and they really, really need to raise their voices...

and provide a counter to the strident theocratic chorus which gets so much fawning attention in the right-wing media.

[haikugal]

3. Agree 100%

They need to speak out and stand firm against the onslaught of the Dominionists. I'm happy to see this.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Funny..That sounds alot like the cries for the moderate Islams to disavow the violence of

the few extremists. Guess what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

4. I read the linked post

What I remain uncertain about is whether the Virginia Baptists are part of the Southern Baptist Convention. If they are, I predict they won't be for much longer. They'll get an apple and a roadmap from the SBC HQ in Nashville.

It seems much more likely that they're of the other "American Baptist Association" model. Remember: the Southern Baptist Convention split away from American Baptists over the issue of letting the dark-skinned people worship with the light-skinned people.

[struggle4progress]

6. Wikipedia indicates the Virginia Baptists allow congregations to affiliate with SBC

but such affiliation is neither universal nor automatic

[Adsos Letter]

10. The SBC is on their list of "Ministry Partners"

listed at http://www.vbmb.org/partners.cfm

I'm still not clear on how they fit under the cope of the SBC, but it appears that they are not of the "American Baptist Model" although I may simply be misreading things (I admit to being a bit distracted at the moment).

Here is the text of their Resolution, via the Associated Baptist Press website:

Inaccurate history threatens religious liberty

Whereas, the Baptist principles of religious liberty and its safeguard, separation of church and state (or government neutrality toward all religions and nonreligion), are well grounded in this nation’s history, and

Whereas, the labors of Virginians, notably Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, James Madison, and the Baptist minister John Leland, were crucial in the historic events that made these two principles part of our nation’s Bill of Rights, and

Whereas, no people, Baptist or otherwise, can remain true to its principles if its knowledge or collective memory of these principles is tampered with, altered, or replaced by a false version of history, and

Whereas, the Religious Liberty Committee of the Baptist General Association of Virginia has concluded that systematic efforts have been under way in recent decades to write and teach versions of American history that minimize and sometimes deny the historic basis of one or both of the principles named above, and

Whereas, resources are available for correcting any such mistaken history, including a 1999 article by Stephen Stookey of Fort Worth, Texas,

Now therefore be it resolved, that the Baptist General Association of Virginia calls upon Virginia Baptists, and all who cherish religious liberty, (1) to redouble their efforts to know and teach the historical foundation and meaning of the two principles named above, (2) to regard it as a threat to the flourishing of religious liberty when any version of our nation’s history minimizes or denies the historical basis of either of these principles, and (3) to be diligent in resisting and correcting any such mistaken version of our history.

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5858/53/
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Their official policy on religious liberty and Church/State separation is explained in pages 12-13, and 20-22 at the following link (a 2MB PDF download):

http://www.vbmb.org/uploads/What%20Every%20VA%20Baptist%20Wants%20to%20Know.pdf

[applegrove]

17. Good for them. I hope the chorus grows from within xtian churches.

[me b zola]

5. Recommended

:thumbsup:

[no_hypocrisy]

7. Virginia Baptists have long memories.

Pre-Constitution, Virginia Baptists were imprisoned for the crime of . . . . being Virginia Baptists.

[Adsos Letter]

8. Yes, they were. And Jefferson's letter using the phrase "wall of separation"

was contained in a letter to the Danbury Baptists. If it weren't so dangerous it would be laughably ironic to see many of the descendent's of the upholders of religious liberty and Church/State separation now demanding the erosion of that bedrock principle. Interesting how when some groups gain supremacy they want to impose their will upon others.

It's still ironic, but not laughably so.

[felix_numinous]

9. K&R!!

It's about time some sane ministers spoke up. I knew they had to be out there somewhere.

[Adsos Letter]

11. "It's about time some sane ministers spoke up. I knew they had to be out there somewhere."

There are, indeed, and they need to find a venue to start making some noise to counteract the space given to the theocrats by the right-wing media.

And keep hammering the message home to anyone who will listen.

[felix_numinous]

12. Yes. So many ministers are too involved in politics

and not enough involved in ethics--which is supposed to be their speciality. I think the more humble preachers are hesitant to speak out on national issues in general, but now is the time for them to be heard, now is the time for clarity.

Also with all the school beatings and bigotry being egged on by hate speech, good churches sorely need to separate themselves from the violence and insanity out there, it is spreading like a disease. Good to see this being discussed :)

[Adsos Letter]

13. Amen, felix_numinous...

and the whole congregation said "Amen!" :)

[StarsInHerHair]

15. they no longer teach the 18th century in public schools

& I think THAT is now backfiring very badly, because now various Christian sects can rewrite history to suit their goals. I recall that the Founders were sick of the endless religious wars engulfing Europe, the religion of the dead monarch vs. the new monarch went from Catholic to Protestant & back again & people were killing each other over it. THAT is why they put a "no religious tests to hold office" clause, as well as the separation of church & state-to break the cycle of madness.

To suffer the stupidity & really selfishness of today's various brands of Christianity, when they are hellbent on claiming all power & "true Christiandom" now in the 21st century is appalling & very short-sighted. They don't expect to be out of power, like the Cons, which makes them unrealistic, too.

[Adsos Letter]

16. I agree; the Thirty Years War devastated Europe, and The Founders certainly knew it

as well as the religious component of the English Civil War, which was much closer to their own day. The bottom line, which many of them recognized, was the attack on human liberty of conscience which comes with State religious establishment, as well as the utter futility of compulsion to create anything other than martyrs and hypocrites.