Passenger backlash growing against TSA touching of breasts and genitals (WP)

[somone]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/12/AR2010111206580.html

Airport 'pat-downs' cause growing passenger backlash
By Derek Kravitz

Airport travelers call it groping, prodding or just plain inappropriate - a pat-down that probes places where the sun doesn't shine. The Transportation Security Administration calls it the new reality of airport security.

The examinations routinely involve the touching of breasts and genitals, invasive searches designed to find weapons and suspicious items. The searches, performed by TSA security officers of the same sex as the passenger, entail a sliding hand motion on parts of the body where a lighter touch was used before, aviation security analysts say. The areas of the body that are being touched haven't changed.

But the new pat-downs have prompted a growing backlash among pilots and flight attendants, civil liberties groups and security-weary passengers who say the touching goes too far. "It's more than just patting you down. It's very intrusive and very insane. I wouldn't let anyone touch my daughter like that," said Marc Moniz of Poway, Calif., who is planning to accompany his daughter's eighth-grade class from San Diego to Washington in April. "We're not common criminals."

In the latest escalation of the debate over the balance between security and passenger rights, privacy advocates have enlisted consumer rights activist and four-time presidential candidate Ralph Nader, who called the screening techniques "extremely voyeuristic and intrusive." "If anyone is going to try to get through, they're going to (conceal items in body cavities), so this isn't going to stop that," Nader said. "My prediction is that TSA is going to lose all of this."...

[Dawson Leery]

1. K/R and http://wewontfly.com/

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I would be thrilled to see the TSA disbanded. What a waste of money for little more than .....

.... Security Street Theater.

[Lugnut]

14. Exactly!

What a farce!

[PSzymeczek]

99. I would love to see

the Department of Homeland Security dismantled, and its various parts put back where they were, or eliminated.

[ThomCat]

124. Yes, I agree. They are a huge waste of money, and do nothing of use or value.

They violate rights, and provide no security.

[daleo]

3. We would have laughed at the Soviets for this

And said "a free people would never submit to such indignities by representatives of the state".

[readmoreoften]

5. +1

[leftstreet]

10. +1

[Leftist Agitator]

25. This is the most apt comment that I have seen here in a long time.

+1

[Billy Burnett]

34. DUers say the same thing about Cubans suffering "Castro's" universal health care.

Head on over to DU's Latin America forum, where your can get a taste of it for yourself.

[Blue_Tires]

44. +1000

I'm curious if even the Israeli airports are this intrusive...

[garthranzz]

86. Are you kidding?

You don't even have to take off your shoes! Israel profiles - they ask questions, they read body language. You go through at least a half-dozen checkpoints without realizing it - all unobtrusive.

The difference is they take security seriously over there. The people are trained, not burger-flipping rejects. Sometimes the lines are long, but you keep your dignity.

They know who to look for and how to look for them.

[seabeyond]

87. i was going to say, ... high wage earners and they are gonna earn it. nt

[Blue_Tires]

89. i just remember in the months following 9-11

a lot of officials noted how israel's airport security was the strictest in the world and a model to follow...a decade later i wasn't certain how similar or dissimilar we had become...

[jmowreader]

88. Well...they wouldn't

But thanks to the last REPUBLICAN president and his REPUBLICAN Congress, we are no longer a free people.

In the immoral words (I was going to put 'immortal,' realized I didn't push T hard enough, then realized it was more accurate without that letter) of one John Ashcroft, to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists.

I see your Ashcroft and raise you one Benjamin Franklin: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

And this is what I don't get about teabaggers: They run around screaming "socialist! Communist! They're taking away our freedoms!" about Democrats...but the one law that took away more of our freedoms than any other, that grew the government more than any other, that went farther toward turning this into a communist country than any other, was crammed down our throats by the Republican Party.

[Diclotican]

90. daleo

daleo

If you had ask me a decade ago, or maybe longer if US was to become what we are seeing today the front of, i would have told you to get mental help. But after the last decade, specially with the all what happend after Jr got into office, Im not to sure anymore. The power the TSA have is larger than anyone else have had before to "protect" the borders.. TSA can, as KGB did, came to be more than just a tool to protect the borders, but a tool to repress, and to subverb the rule of law, by give them to mutch Power.. In the history of man, no organisation who have been given the tool to repress, have not been doing it.

As many did, when KGB border patrol was controlling everything and everyone who was traveling to or from USSR.. The same was the case in most of East Europe before the wall was going down in 1989.. But compared to TSA of today in US, the different borderguards in Eastern Europe was at least polite, professional, and treated for the most part their "costumers" with respect and decency.. I know, as I often was in Bulgaria when I was younger, at hollyday (and becouse it was sheaper than traveling to other destinations, who was in the West).. The border guards was strict, and intemitading, but at least they know how to treat us with some dignety, and they also seen to allway warm up to us children, but they checked our papers really good.

I have been told later on, that the border guards allways had rifles with them, as part of the whole "affair", I do not rembember the weapons, but I do rembember the guards... For the most part concripts who did their duty as guards at airports.. As part of the border guarding I guess...

But, from my point of wiew, the "eastern block" allways seen to at least be fair, strict, intemidating, but fair from the wiewpint of their "customers". As long as no one was acting out, they was profesional and curticy was there... Or they was at least treating their "customers" from the West with some respect, im not sure they treated their own with the same respect.

TSA on the other hand.. Never experienced it themself, but I do have a few familiy members who have experienced them firsthand. And they was not to impressed by their actions either.. In fact one, who had been in US many times said, she would never leave for US again after the last trip to US, where she, and many others was allmoust denied acsess to US, becouse the Airport Authority could not read the passport with the new electronic system on it... And yes, she is a old grayheaded little woman, who is really a danger to the securty of US. Do I need the sarcasm tag here?


And it is also a irony of all ironies, that the old NKVD, was made not to repress everyone and everything, but to protect the state from enemies from within and out. The first mandate to what became the represseive State autority was to protect the new Soviet union from enemies, and to safegueard lawbidding peopole from been harmed in any way.. Later on, under Josef Stalin, the NKVD was made what it was known as. And after Stalins death in 1953, reorganized, into KGB.. Who after 1991 was split into to new, poorer and less powerfull entitiys.. FSB and SVR.But still with a lot of know how from earlier times.. But GRU is still mostly the same as they allways have been.. They surived intact, more or less the cold war, and are today bussy doing what GRU allways have been doing..

Diclotican

[daleo]

107. That was an interesting thoughtful response

Which I respect and appreciate. You make a good point about Soviet security being a legitimate response to international threats at first, then quickly devolving into state paranoia. The pervasive climate of state sponsored fear after 911 strikes me as similar.

In the west, during the cold war, there was an oft-repeated phrase: "better dead than red". That was meant to emphasize that freedom was so valuable that we would risk destroying the world via nuclear war to maintain our liberty.

But we have sold our freedoms cheap to Al Quada. Now it's "better groped and scanned than take an infinitesimal risk that a madman in a mountaintop cave will hijack a plane".

[Diclotican]

117. daleo

daleo

Thanks for you kind word, it is something I have been thinking a lot about lately.. Mostly becouse it looks so familiar at least at the surface, what sort of terror regime the old KGB was made out to be, and the posibilites the new TSA have, to use same metodes, or maybe even better tools, becouse all what is posible today, to track travelings out and in of the country.. And US have more than 15 other intern and forreing looking intelligence organisations, and you also have the mighty NSA, who is the most powerfull intelligence system the world know about today... The power, and scope of what NSA can track is mindblowing to say at least.. From every corner of the world, the NSA can wiretap and keep and tab on allmoust everyone with a phone or an internet connection.. Off course KGB had their own tools for the job, both before the cold war, and after the cold war. But the computer age was in fact late on in KGB sircles.. But I guess the RVS and FSB of today is more up to the task, of handing great numbers and intelligence by computer.. After all Russia is "our friend" and therefore can get computer hardware that they could not have before the breakup of USSR (Not that stoped them for buying, and even steal techology from the west, to be used in their own needs anyway, they was experts in that trade,and maybe still is).

But the history of KGB, is as you say better, an devolving from a legitimtate respons from international treats, to a state paranoia, where everyone who even was saying something that was not "legitimate" could end up in the cellars of a local KGB office.. Or even end up in Lebujanca, the old headquarter of KGB in the centrum of Moskow itselv.. Depending off course if you was important enough.. Specially under the great purges under Stalin, ten of thousands was in Lebujanca before they was shoo... By 1941, when Germany attaced USSR, most of the senior staff in the red army was killed off, becouse of paranoida from Stalin.. And millions put into prison camps where they was used as forced labour, to build whatever the USSR needed of big hewy stuff... The price the rusisan population was paying for that paranoia was indeed great, more than 20 million russians alone was killed between juni 1941 and may 8 1945, when the war ended with the victory over Nazi-Germany.. And a totally devestated Western Russia.. It took years to rebuild what was damaged, decades mostly becose of the cold war, where a lot of ressourses needed to rebuild Russia was used to either repress dissent, or to build up one of the most mighty armies the world have ever seen.. The red army on its most powerfull side, was a force to recon with. And a military force that the West had legitimate right to fear, and the west FEARED the Red army, even tho in the last two decades, many who "won the war" have told again and again that they was never afraid of the Red Army, that it was just for the fun of it, they was not crashing the Red Army with the mighty US army.... (YEA they wish) Untill 1992-93 when the last parts of the red army was leaving Germany, the West German, and NATO forces keept a lot of army stuff in the Folda Gap, just to be sure that the red army was not up to something when they was leaving...

But the cold war ended, rather with a wimp, than a bang I would say, I still rembember the wall been tearing down, and I still rembember the banner of USSR been lowered, and the Russian Federation flag been rised over the Kremlin 1 cristmas day 1991... I was young then, just in 6 grade, but I still rembember clearly how it all ended... In a way no one belived to be posible... And the few who know, was not telling anyone before long after it have all happend anyway...

After the cold war ended, the world changed, and for a time, a brief, but still a time, all hoped that the world would be a better place to be a part of.. All "grown ups" was talking about the posibities, and it was made a few songes about the posibilites that the new generations (that is my generation) have to influence the future... And then Jugoslavia got into a sivil war, and it tooks years to stop the fire and it wil take at least a couple of decades to rebuild what was bombed and destroyed there...

And the US loost directions of what to do.. Under Clinton it was seeing as US at least wanted to be a force of good, even tho Clinton did a lot of questenable things, Not about Lewinsky and all that, but rather other things... But at least, US had a good standing in the world, even by many of her advisaries US had a good standing.. It was posible to TALK to US, if you was not to unresable yourself. And US under Clinton reduced its defesit, to a healty, but small surpluss...

And then the bomshell George Walker Bush jr, was "elected" president in 2000.. A shoock to not just the US, but also to the rest of the world I can ensure you... And specially after sept 11, where US had the posiblity to work togheter with the world, to defend itself and its allies agains terror and extremist, they shoosed badly to say at least, and even tho the fat woman have been singing for a while now (I would say years) not everyone have understand how missrable the work of GWB really was.. And it is mindblowning to see that no one of the former administration leaders, is in custody, pending trials of crimes, both inside your own country, but also outside your own country.. And US utter lack of willingness to get the crimials to cort, so they have to answer for what they was doing the last 8 year they had the power, can, maybe wil harm US in the long run.. If no one is at least taken to the cort, other regimes, that is maybe smarter, but more evilt han George Walker Bush ever was, wil try to outgo him, may times over.. Even using a nuclear bomb, to "secure" the world from evildoers as mr Bush so nice put it many times.. If it had been up to GWB, I guess nuclear weapons would have been used many times over, but thankfully it was not up to him, to deside where to use nuclear weapons... Not just him at least.. I guess some in the shief of staffs desided it was smart to object to the idea of using nuclear weapons...

But as you pointed it out, US have really been celling their hardwon freedom, easly for the trath of Al-Qauda or other oganisations like that.. I guess, if mr Osama is still alive, he is smiling rather easely, now when he had scared US into subission, not just are most of the freedoms americans 20 year ago would have fighted nail and foot for, but americans are letting a great president, fighting with both his hand behing his back, against extremist, who are determined to get him out of the office he held. And also to destroy what ever freedom and democracy you still have, all in the name of protecting the Homeland... Even old Felix, the first leader of the new entitety of Checka, the later NVKD/KGB could not have been doing it anything better.. And he was somewhat of a "person" in the young Soviet State.. And Berija was his next in comand, and who ended up as the leader, and personal friend of Josef Stalin. A friendship who he survived to the bitter end, he was a Stalinist true, and true.

And as USSR, I fear that USA, after sept 11 would use the new tools, to also do the same as USSR did in its youth, use the new systems, to supress others, who was not saying the same as the leaders wanted it to say.. Not now the idea of democracy is still to big in most americans mind.. But just give it a decade or so, the whole idea of democracy would be turn upside down, and the police state where "the state" is protectiong everyone from everyone else, would be a part of the regular life.. And where dissents, like we on DU, and others, would bee keept at tab on. If we are not been that allready.. Tools like TSA is just the beginning, and have to be stoped before it is to late.. TSA is like the young KGB Border Guard Directorate, but far better equipt to keep an tag about most and everyone who passes their eyes.. All the tools to a police state in US have been there for a long time now. The only thing that are not there, is the will to use the tools.. The Patriot Act more or less re-wroted most of your laws, the MCA re-wroted most of your miliatry laws, both domistic and forreign... The tools are in place, the only thing the new police State need, are a get go, and a Administration with the will to trample of the ruins of your laws, and the will to keep the power after their limits is off... Jr was close to be an dictator, but he blinked and was not ready for it.. next time you might not be that lucky, to have a president who at the last second deside to blink when he could have taken the reign as an dictorator for life..

Diclotican

[Systematic Chaos]

121. Eye Heart Yew

Thanks for pointing out the obvious in a way that even the dumbest fucking Freeper couldn't just gloss over and flippantly disregard. :)

[flvegan]

4. Somewhere, bin Laden's folks are laughing their asses off.

Our scared little country, living in constant fear.

[alittlelark]

9. +1

[Greyhound]

19. And why not, they beat the "World's Only Superpower" with utility knives.

If I were them I'd be laughing too, unfortunately I am one of the defeated and I'm just fucking ashamed of us.

[abelenkpe]

69. +1 nt

[TK421]

54. Yup...they won the "We'll make your country overly paranoid" war alright

what a sad testament to what this country has become

And it's only going to get worse from here, wait and see

[bbgrunt]

6. ....think they'll stop at body cavities? ha!

[Webster Green]

7. Home of the brave.

Yeah, sure. :rofl:

[bdamomma]

48. more like home of the paranoid

what's next stripping down?

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Whatever happened to reasonable suspicion?

Did the right-wing Supreme Court distort the gray lines so much that common sense was thrown out the window?

[Greyhound]

21. Raygun.

Reasonable cause was happily eliminated by so-called conservatives in the 80's. This is also the time when we didn't object to "our" government seizing property w/o cause or due process and laying the burden on the property's owner.

[End Of The Road]

27. That would be profiling - can't have that! nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Clinton's Administration had a system. They listened to chatter

they shook the trees. When something credible comes across the wires, they have a good hunch who or what to look for. That's what I mean by reasonable suspicion in the 21st Century.

[MadMaddie]

38. If it was true profiling it would be a specific group of people

they are doing this to everyone, even those that really are not questionable to try to make it look fare. I bet you there is a disparity between those considered attractive and those not. That's why this is ridiculous.

[I Have A Dream]

78. Absolutely. It's that way with luggage checks also.

I think that the security guys sometimes like to see the women's underwear in their suitcases. My very attractive sister had the last laugh though when she said that they were going to be sorely disappointed because she didn't wear underwear. :rofl:

[alittlelark]

11. Associated story on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x524892

Scary times.

[LibDemAlways]

12. The only thing that will restore sanity to airport security

is the public speaking with their wallets and refusing to fly unless absolutely necessary. As soon as it starts impacting the bottom line, the airlines are going to be pressuring the politicians to do something about it. It's good that TSA (stands for TitS 'n Ass) has finally gone too far and airline employees, as well as the general public, are starting to push back.

Another interesting website with some proposals for anti-TSA ads:

http://www.reddit.com/r/OperationGrabAss

[Raster]

13. Cavity searches for all are just around the corner, courtesy of the TSA pervs.

[kenny blankenship]

18. Oh come on, it's just going to be a thin fibre optic probe! You won't feel a thing.

And I understand the manufacturer has already given assurances to the Vatican and other religious authorities that the probe's discretion is such that the virgo intacta status of your minor children will not be disturbed. However, this advance word may be describing the spec prototype and might not apply to the final product as delivered and deployed by TSA.

[2Design]

15. molestation and rape by a government that calls torture enhanced enterogration n/t

[glinda]

16. That happened to my mother years ago when she went back to Europe. They

conducted very degrading searches on her and her mother.

[barbtries]

84. how many years ago

and who were "they"? i shudder to think.

[glinda]

97. If I remember it was the early-mid sixties. Border-guards.

[Jamastiene]

17. Can we call it paranoia yet?

Or are we still beholden to the Patriot Act and all that other nonsense?

[upi402]

20. Bushco let Arabs take down the twin towers, and WE lose our rights and freedoms

Fecking Jayziz! Nobody has a right to privacy now? Is this real?

Felons can't work or rent an apartment anymore, no matter how many decades ago. Meanwhile pot is legal more and more. But some religious fanatics give our fascists an excuse to sniff through our underware, and... then what?

[ProudDad]

110. bushco let Saudis get the blame for taking down the towers (n/t)

[dflprincess]

111. Bush let the Saudis off the hook and used the towers as

an excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

[gmoney]

22. Guilty until proven innocent... and even then, considered probably guilty...

[Scuba]

23. "The searches, performed by TSA security officers of the same sex as the passenger"...

Maybe that's the problem. Let us choose the sex of the person we want patting us and we'll be happier.

[tblue37]

70. Actually, I have ready many stories about women being patted down by men. nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

24. The firm I work for just picked up four airplanes,

We bought two Piper Meridians and leased two Pilatus PC-12's to operate a corporate shuttle in the Northeast and Southwest. Airline travel has just become so fucking annoying that people are wasting too much time driving or taking amtrak on short regional trips.

[myrna minx]

26. K&R n/t

[HopeHoops]

28. We need a NATIONAL CAMPAIGN! Whenever they do that, make Curley's "Woob-woob-woob" noise.

EVERY time you get touched somewhere questionable, just do the "Wooob-wooob-wooob" noise Curley always made, and toss in a couple of "Nyuk-nyuk" sounds if you can make them. I'm talking an Alice's Restaurant type deal here - "Can you imagine 50 people a day getting patted down and making the 'woob-woob-woob' noise?"

[many a good man]

31. +1

Count me in!

:rofl:

[Contrary1]

33. I resemble that remark!

[backscatter712]

42. Start yelling "BAD TOUCH! BAD TOUCH!" in a child's voice! n/t

[Aaria]

61. Sneeze on their heads.

[Diclotican]

91. HopeHoops

HopeHoops

I wold LOVE to be in line, if anyone did that impression when TSA are touched somewhere questionable.. Even tho I doubt I wil be in US anytime soon... But yes, I would LOVE to se what happend next... :evilgrin: Maybe even do the sound myself, when its my time...

Diclotican.

[Lucian]

92. I plan on yelling "I NEED AN ADULT! I NEED AN ADULT!"

[Diclotican]

114. Lucian

Lucian

Hehe.. Yea that would be lovely I guess.. Just think about it, what a steer in the line... But you might also end up in a polstered cell for a time. To ensure you are sane:)

Wel, usaly the food are good and you would posible get all what you want of the blue and the green pills who are given you that wonderfull collor rainbow you see all the time. And best of all, it is LEGAL... So it is not a loose-lose situation all in all:evilgrin:

Diclotican

[HopeHoops]

122. I used to make mooing sounds in the line at the airport. Now I'd probably get shot.

I always got a good reaction out of that. I'd wait until the point where everyone was clearly tired and aggravated and then just let loose a couple of "moooooooo moooooooo" sequences (I do a good cow noise). It was good to see everyone crack up and moods lighten. I even had the people working the X-Ray machine and metal detector crack up. That was back in the pre-shrub years.

[Diclotican]

125. HopeHoops

HopeHoops

You are either a rather brave man/woman, or little over the top if you used to that..;) Or just both. Either way, you might be some who would loose up the crowd little, and i guess the mood defently lighten after a few mooooooo.

But as you say, it was before Scrub get into office, and all changed to the worse, not just in US, but maybe in the rest of the world.. Wel, it ended better than suspected after 8 year, he was not the man to really do as he telling "It would be more easy to govern, if I was the dictator".. We really collectively dogded the bulled that time..

But even the dark days are not over yet, and I am afraid we would continue to live in "intersting times" as a chinese curse is saying it.... So I guess, we would continue to live in really interesting times for many years.. And I guess also the meaning of DU would be there for many year..

Diclotican

[Divernan]

126. Head em up, move em out - Rawhide!

[onecent]

29. Hell, I am flying to Atlanta the Wednesday before Thanksgiving

and I don't WANT TO GO THRU A SCANNER...But as a 65 year old senior...I certainly am not in the mood for a thorough patdown.

Big Brother is just around the corner....hope I doesn't happen in my lifetime...but it looks like it is going to happen in my children's lifetime.

[intheflow]

46. Don't kid yourself. Big Brother is already here. n/t

[shimmergal]

132. Opt for the patdown--

my guess is that most TSA personnel will dislike giving them to seniors as much as we dislike the process.

Maybe more -- it certainly wouldn't be the first time in my life I've been mauled by someone whom I don't love.

Heck, they might find the prospect so unappealing they'd let you go thru free.

[pipi_k]

32. I wonder what happens when...

a TSA officer feels a wad of something between a female passenger's legs...like a menstrual or bladder control pad.

What...does the woman have to go into a back room, whip down her drawers, and prove the suspicious wad is busy soaking up menstrual fluid or urine?


Totally disgusting and degrading.

I just wonder how much more degradation people are going to stand for before they decide to revolt en masse.

[bdamomma]

50. they would revolt in Europe

but not the USA, that is why we are so compliant, well maybe some of us.

[pipi_k]

55. I know...tell me about it...

The biggest revolt we've seen in the past 10 years was when the crazy Dubya ass kissers staged a mass execution of their Dixie Chicks CDs...

:eyes:

[Diclotican]

93. pipi_k

pipi_k

I have the CDs from Dixie Chicks.. Mostly becouse they stand up to the twitt, and also becouse some of their songs, is good.. Specially the "traveling soldier" for some reason hit me with a cord... Don't know why, but it did...

Diclotican

[pitohui]

62. they wouldn't revolt in europe, i've been patted down in europe for years

if you don't travel someplace, probably best not to speculate on that place's travel policies

if you don't get patted down multiple times in a german airport you're probably not even breathing!!!

[whathehell]

76. "If you don't travel someplace, probably best not to speculate

on that place's travel policies"...Yes...Or that places (fill in the blank) _____, _____. ____ policies.



Too many knee-jerks, too little experience and information.:eyes:

[daleo]

81. My brother is just back from Europe

He said there were no pat downs or scanners for him or his wife. My son was there about a month ago, and he said the same.

Neither was in Germany though.

[Heddi]

82. I've traveled to Europe 15 times in the last 10 years. I have never gotten patted or touched

I never had to take off my shoes. Belt only if metal was in it. Never got a metal detector wand, either. Just walk through the metal detector and that's it.

Countries visited:

England
Ireland
N.Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Denmark
The Netherlands
France
Italy
Germany
Belgium

So no, it's not really part of European airport tradition to be patted down. Hell, half the time they don't even look at my passport...just wave me through.

After I got married, I had only a few years left on my old passport so instead of getting a new one with married name, I just carried my marriage license showing my new name. In America i had to go through 18 hoops--show marriage license, old Driver's license, new driver's license...it was a big fucking deal. Europe never cared. Never asked to see the marriage license even though last name on ticket didn't match last name on passport.

All but 3 of the trips were after 9/11, Scotland and one of the many trips to Holland after (actually during) the incident at Glasgow airport, and a couple of the trips to England were after the Subway bombing....

Also, when traveling in Asia I was never touched either, neither in South Korea or Thailand.

[Diclotican]

95. pitohui

pitohui

Wel I have traveled in Europe many times.. And never been patted down, but when I came Home to Norway, I allways is given a pattdown.. one time I was allmoust given a frisk sheck becouse of the customer guards belived me to be a druc currier from far away.. Even my passport was not made a dent in her willingness to give me a pat down, and maybe even a strick control, where the sun allmoust never shine.... Wel at least I managed to convice her superiour that I was not a drug currier, just been over the border to visit my dad some days... It was in my "long hair days" I guess:P So I was a posible dangrous man...

But the later days, when i desided to get rid of the long hair.. Vips, no control by the customs either it be in Norway or somewhere else...

But then again, I seldom fly anymore, don't like all the hazzles to get to a airplane, better to drive where I must be, even if it takes some time to get there.. And you are in your own little "bubble" where you can do more or less as you please.. Even sing a little with the radio on full:evilgrin:

Diclotican

[Divernan]

112. I wasn't patted down/touched in Berlin's Tegelhof Airport 2 yrs. ago

or in Istanbul year before that, or on many trips to Dublin, or at any of a dozen airports in the Caribbean islands under jurisdiction of the Dutch, Brits & French.

No one has mentioned what private company has made tons of money manufacturing these machines. Anyone know?

Also any links to the amount of radiation the new scanners expose one to, either as person being scanned or the people operating these machines? Oh wait, I know - they're perfectly safe, just like Ground Zero days after 9/11 and the oil-free waters of the Gulf. I wouldn't trust any government data/reports on these machines - need the pilot's union to fund some independent scientific group to conduct a study and make the reports available.

[abelenkpe]

72. Exactly that's why well never say a thing when they take ss away. nt

[Lucian]

94. Europeans get pissed when you take away their rights.

We sit on our collective fat asses in this country, shrug our shoulders, and don't give a damn, except for a select few.

[whathehell]

119. Again...

You've got to speak for yourself:evilgrin:

[Boudica the Lyoness]

71. What about this?

http://www.srs.org/patients/juvenile/bracing.php

[PSzymeczek]

100. Or a string from

a tampon, and they think it's a fuse. The mind boggles.

[shimmergal]

133. Hell, here again--

if the woman can manage to just act amused
it'll probably be much more unpleasant for the patdown giver than the victim.

Do this enough and these employees might start to complain, or even refuse.

[indepat]

35. Fuck this and all of junior's initiative brought to full fruition by this administration

;)

[Contrary1]

36. And then there are those of us with prosthetic devices...

Next time I fly, I think I'll just whip out my rubber breasts and toss them on the conveyer belt.

[Celtic Raven]

47. Well, if we were EVER going to fly again

I would carry your bags for you if I saw you do that! :rofl:

:yourock:

[Contrary1]

60. You're on!

I'll look you up, if we ever travel there.

[Celtic Raven]

65. Rendezvous at SeaTac

:woohoo:

[pipi_k]

57. You're lucky they're rubber....

If they were filled with saline or some other liquid, you probably couldn't bring them onboard...

:+

[Edweird]

37. Good.

[Subdivisions]

39. Also, it was revealed this morning (maybe sooner) that these scanners can also

pick up very small items, like a small ziplock baggie of cocaine, tucked into your nether regions. And, while I don't condone the use of these drugs, that means that you're being searched for more than just weapons or explosives when you fly to grandma's house for Thanksgiving.

And with the new pat-down procedures, they should at least include coupons for a free dinner.

[GoneOffShore]

52. TSA Mission Creep enabled by creepy TSA guys.

[PSzymeczek]

101. I want the works.

Dinner, a movie, and, FFS, kiss me!

[earth mom]

40. I hope someone finds a way to sue over this. It's outrageous!

:grr:

[GoneOffShore]

56. People are looking for ways.

Lots of discussion about the HR aspect of this over on Flyer Talk.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security-222/

Take your pick of the stories - Look for the Opt Out Stories (Merged) and various other topics.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. The home of the fondled and land of the felt up.

[felix_numinous]

43. And somehow other countries have viable security procedures

that don't degrade their citizens. USA!USA!

[pitohui]

63. no actually they don't, the patdown is very frequent in other countries, esp. western europe

if you consider a patdown degrading don't travel to europe is all i can say

africa is prob. a bit dicey as well

[PSUDem]

73. I have never been felt up in western europe

In all the times I have flown around western Europe, the only time I was patted down was when I was flying back to the US and had already gone through the German security, and had to go through the US security. Even when I flew to and from the Ukraine I was never patted down.

[a la izquierda]

116. not common in mexico or central america...

you'll get wanded, which obviously isn't going to set off alarms for the drugs one might be carrying.

[seabeyond]

118. nothing going into mexico or out of. once i got into houston, different story. nt

[a la izquierda]

120. haha, yeah, you're absolutely right.

i just returned from mexico last week. didn't even have to take my shoes or sweater off. i went through a metal detector and got wanded. that's it. they hand search luggage there, which does make me feel measurably safer than the dog and pony show up here.

and then i get the third degree upon returning home, and searched again like a crook. ugh.

[ThomCat]

123. You keep saying this, but were is your proof?

A lot of people keep posting that they've traveled a lot to these same places, and not experienced this. Their direct experience says you're wrong.

I worked in an office with people who traveled frequently. We worked for a company with global offices. I was one of the few who did not have to travel, as a consideration because of my disability. Never once did anyone in our office come back and talk about these invasions happening overseas the way they occur here. So, my experience agrees with all these other people who say that you seem to be wrong.

Where is your proof?

[dragonlady]

45. Air travelers now have two choices

Submit to the body scanners that are likely to be harmful to health because of the radiation they use (which won't be documented for many years), or submit to these humiliating searches. So far Amtrak travel doesn't require either.

[GoneOffShore]

53. TSA employees are prohibited from wearing dosimeters.

What does that say about the scanners?

"Agent Orange is just a defoliant."
"Smoking doesn't cause cancer."
"Asbestos is an excellent insulator."

[Divernan]

113. Rescue/clean-up workers told it was safe to work at Ground Zero

within days of the towers' collapse. I was there three months later and could still smell the metals in the air.

Same for the Gulf - and the amazing disappearance of the oil.

[Divernan]

127. If they get by w/ it at airports, Amtrak/subways/busses will be next.

TSA is strictly the Emperor's New Clothes fairy tale.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. They say they've found "weapons and other dangerous and prohibited items"

Translation: They haven't found any actual weapons, but they've found nail clippers, bottles of hand sanitizer, and most importantly, several BAGS OF WEED!!! :D :D :D

[CoffeeCat]

115. The TSA took my chocolate pudding cups...

...that I had packed for my kids for our trip to Disneyland.

Everyone should feel soooo much safer now because middle-aged women have
had their pudding taken away.

:eyes:

[GoneOffShore]

51. Hurray! The backlash is growing!

TSA is an out of control agency and has been from the start.

They are nothing but clerks performing administrative searches and violating the 4th Amendment daily.

Opt Out day is 24 November.

Say no to Michael Chertoff's Porn-O-Scope and Genital Groping.

[Crunchy Frog]

58. These days airplanes are just cattle cars with wings.

I'm old enough that I remember when air travel was fun. :(

[DFW]

59. New TFT video coming out about this in 2 weeks or so

I have posted the lyrics to this before, but back then it was intended as a parody, not reality!
The song is recorded, and TFT is working on the details of the video.

Talking TSA Blues
©2010 by The Freedom Toast (reprinted here by permission)


I booked a little trip to the Florida Keys
A week of sun and a light sea breeze
Grabbed the wife and the luggage, we were on our way
But we didn’t reckon with the T S A!

Made the check-in counter in plenty of time,
Proceeded to the security line,
Took off my belt, took off my shoes,
And then I learned to sing the T S A blues.

They said I’m on a no-fly list
I might be a famous terrorist
Osama must be my best pal,
And I was Al Qaeda, ‘cause my name was Al.

They made me spit into a cup,
And that cleared the confusion up,
They couldn’t match my D N A,
So, “good bye sir, and have a nice day!”

We left to go and catch our plane,
Whispered, “these guys are insane!”
A uniform stopped us, hands on hips
Said, “We heard that! We read your lips!”

They called me bad, they called me wicked,
Demanded to know if I had liquid.
I said, “just five quarts of blood.”
“That’s over the limit, you’re busted, Bud!”

Now my poor wife began to cry,
She wondered if we’d ever fly.
A grim-faced man came up and said,
“We got to check you. Remove your head.”

I yelled that my head was not removable.
They said they’d let it go if that was provable.
My wife said, “This has gone too far,
“Forget the flight, let’s get the car.”

We got our stuff, and drove back home,
She says, “this looks good, no need to roam!”
Home, sweet home, and you know, what’s more,
No one felt us up on the way to the door.

They say it’s all for our security.
Their motives have the utmost purity,
But next time, if I’m free to choose,
Well, someone tell United the news,
‘Cause I’m walking, and that’s T S A blues!

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. Every year, bin Laden's victory grows larger and larger.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

79. I agree

He must be laughing his arse off.

[Pholus]

66. Deficit reduction idea: DEFUND the TSA! Savings: 7 billion dollars.

[tblue37]

67. Remember when the TSA measures first started, especially the

requirement to remove shoes? Comedians and cartoonests were making jokes about how eventually we would all have to travel in the nude to get past security. Well, those backscatter scanners are essentially requiring passengers to go nude in order to be cleared to board a plane, and these invasive pat-downs are intended to be so unpleasant that people will submitt to the scanners rather than go through such an aggressive groping.

I won't fly again.

Maybe now the US will develop a decent passenger rail service, since the airline industry is going to be pretty much destroyed by this crap.

[seabeyond]

75. nude searches? i would ask. and people would snort... no way, not gonna happen. now

cavity search?

[abelenkpe]

68. Airline industry can't be happy about this

Gotta admit I don't want naked scans taken of my kids or myself and wouldn't want to be patted down in such a fashion either. We have the means to travel but haven't gone anywhere and wont go anywhere requiring plane travel. Our country has gone insane. Really...completely insane.

My vote this last go round was really just to keep insane people out of office.

I voted for dems and the president in the past thinking they would:

fix health care (single payer or public option at least)
get us out of the costly un-winable wars
do away with dadt
move our country towards sustainable energy (cap n trade)
fix the economy

Yeah. Well forget that shit. Now it's just to keep lunatics and head stompers out of office. So amazingly sad....

[OnyxCollie]

74. K&R. nt

[Boudica the Lyoness]

77. Deformed babies

Sooner or later a frequent traveller is going to give birth to a baby with birth defects and the TSA will rightfully get sued.

What happens when the TSA gropers feel a colostomy bag? Will they take the passengers word or will the passenger have to show them it in public? Will they empty it? What's to stop a terrorists from putting some explosive in a colostomy bag, adult diaper, baby diaper or up his bum?

These searches are not only disgusting but futile. Leave us alone. I'd rather take my chances with a terrorist than go through these violations.

[Divernan]

129. Whoops! Did I spray you, officer?

[grahamhgreen]

80. I'm worried they will stare in awe when I walk through the scanner, also I

think the scanner images will wind up all over the internet (especially true for celebs and pols), and OF COURSE pervs will flock to work at the TSA.

[barbtries]

83. i hate that

either be stripped by a machine or felt up by a stranger. it sucks. i live 3000 miles away from my oldest son and all 3 of my grandchildren and i work full time so not flying is not an option.

\all i can do is hate it i guess.

i think they're escalating the intrusiveness of the pat downs to get more people to agree to being stripped by a machine. i think both options suck.

[ProgressiveLiberal]

85. Ralph Nader - A voice of Sanity and Progressive ideas for nearly 40 years

[thanks_imjustlurking]

96. Well duh.

As far as I can make out, this Homeland Security @#$% has made us little more secure, while increasing the power of Big Brother.

[Liberty Belle]

98. CNN has a poll up on airport groping and scans: www.cnn.com

scroll down; poll is on right. So far 55% object. (Are the other 45% brain dead?)

[AllieB]

102. The other 45% are the ones who just voted against their best interests in the Midterms

[Orrex]

103. All members of the House and Senate should be similarly inspected before going into chambers

Live, on CSPAN. Or maybe CSPAN2.

[Celtic Merlin]

104. NATIONAL "OPT-OUT" DAY ! ! !

Would you like to see how truly invasive are these full-body scanners? There's a picture of what a test subject (I assume it's a TSA employee) looks like - front and rear - in one of these things at:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/national-opt-out/

Those who refuse to enter this device have been publicly embarrassed by TSA employees who loudly yell, "Opt-out! We have an Opt-out!" which causes a bunch of other TSA's to come running - literally running - to surround them and take them away to a room for a full-body grope.

NATIONAL "OPT-OUT" DAY is scheduled for Wednesday, November 24, 2010.

If everybody opts-out, it'll really screw up the works. Which is the plan. The website which explains it all is here:

http://www.optoutday.com/

WARNING: Explicit full-body scans are presented on this website!

Details of what these x-ray machines do to you are available here:

http://www.dontscan.us/

Like the TSA says, "Every day is opt-out day because you have the right to opt-out every time you fly." The problem is that they make it a shitty experience to opt-out. Because they want you to be a good little Stepford and obediently walk through their machines.

For those of you who fly - this day is yours to make or break. Will you stand for your civil rights or will you be a good little sheeple and crawl through the government's latest method of invading your life?

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[seabeyond]

105. good luck. will be interesting. i look at those pictures and cannot believe the people willing to

allow themselves to be treated so very fuckin disrespectfully. it does not make sense to me.

[Celtic Merlin]

109. Those who are willing are the same people who say about illegal searches . . .

. . . of their homes, cars, internet histories, bank accounts, and library habits, "I have nothing to hide."

They're sheep. They do what they're told to do by any government entity they encounter. They don't realize that they're permitting their civil rights to be violated. They get used to it, and that makes it easier for both them and the next government agency to do it again.

Those scanners make you naked. It's a strip search without the disrobing. Anybody who submits to them has no clue what they're doing to themselves or the rest of us.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[tomm2thumbs]

106. if they touch your crotch, start writhing and moaning in pleasure, repeating 'oh yes, yes... '

Meg Ryan is giving pointers at :40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFpnPZpFTEk

[seabeyond]

108. or say in all seriousness.... careful with the touching thing

i climax really easy and could get messy....

[Divernan]

130. Seriously, I'd think a lot of guys would come to attention, as it were.

Especially teenage boys.

[katty]

128. TSA= Totally Sick Agency

[LawnLover]

131. Can someone please explain to me why they've decided to do this?

I haven't yet read or heard any rationale for the change in procedure. Did something happen that compelled the TSA to do even more invasive searches, or is this simply a way to MAKE people use the scanners?

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[TorchTheWitch]

134. it's to make people use the scanners

and to make citizens yet more immune to gross invasion of privacy. Chertoff needs to make his scanner money.

BTW, Chertoff didn't do this deal just to make money on scanners for airports... next will be court houses, every other public building, shopping malls, grocery stores... on and on and on. He set himself up to make MEGA MEGA bucks, not just mega bucks.

[Initech]

135. Very insane = excellent way of putting it.