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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 08:57 AM
Original message
The "Debt Commission"
Aren't we sick and tired of millionaires and multimillionaires telling us what's good for us?
Where are the working-class experts on this panel?

When the President realizes that we are fed up with catering to the wealthy, then and only then will things really "change".


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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. kr
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. The debt commission can be a useful tool.
But I doubt that it will be. The country needs revolutionary changes in tax and spending policy. I favor a tax and spending system where the federal government takes responsibility for only four areas, national defense, immigration enforcement, racial/ethnic equal rights enforcement, the Federal Reserve. The rest and the tax money to support them stay with states. So states would be responsible for education, elder citizen care, highway construction, water quality, et al. What such a system would do is send tax money back to states that generate it and starve states that do not tax properly. I live in a high income blue state. 27% of the tax money that is generated in my state goes to support other states. I would prefer that my state contribute 10% to pay for the four federal responsibilities and keep the other 17% to deal with state issues. For my state, that 17% works out to tens of billions of dollars annually. Such a tax policy will strip the facade from red state politicians and force them to either educate and tax their citizens properly or let their states sink into extreme poverty and ignorance. States like Mississippi, Oklahoma and Alabama have societies that are supported by tax dollars collected in my state and blue states like New York, California and Illinois, yet the citizens of those states view themselves as superior to citizens of blue states while they send poorly educated right wing politicians to Washington to make federal policy that ends up affecting my state. ENOUGH!!! If citizens in Mississippi prefer hanging on to polluting energy sources and foul water, I say let them have it, just not with my tax dollars. My preference is for clean energy development and application that my blue state is moving full tilt toward. My preference is for high environmental quality and safe drinking water. I want my tax dollars to be directed toward what is important to me and the majority of citizens in my state.

Democratic politicians like Nancy Pelosi just do not get it. Pelosi launched an assault on the debt commission's preliminary findings. Pelosi sees an assault on social programs rather than an opportunity to give newly elected Jerry Brown some of the 46% of California state citizen's federal taxes that Mississippi, Oklahoma, Alabama, et al spends on their societies BACK. A 10% return of Californian's federal taxes will allow that state to wipe out it's massive state budget deficit virtually overnight, folks, we are talking many billions of dollars per year coming back to California for CALIFORNIA to spend as it sees fit. What Pelosi should do is work to craft legislation that gives states back federal income taxes while cutting federal aid to those states. Blue states get little to no meaningful federal aid, so the net will be vastly positive for a blue state. Pelosi would rather continue the practice of attending a ribbon cutting for one statewide $300,000 senior health clinic while her state sends $millions to red states to spend during the minutes that Pelosi speaks and cuts the ribbon. Directing tax policy properly will have the effect of choking red states, forcing their politicians to be accountable and it WILL lead to the election of moderate and progressive democrats in those states. One only has to look at North Carolina after that state became a high paying jobs technology center via it's research triangle region. There have been setbacks, but North Carolina is becoming progressively bluer. The only democratic politician that I have listened to in the last days since the election that gets it is the newly elected Marci Kaptur. She was re-elected after a tough race. Kaptur recognizes the opportunities in the tea party push to reduce federal spending and give more control to states, if that push is directed right by smart democrats, it will accomplish the changes that I laid out above.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. With your strong preference for state's rights what on earth are you doing on a dem forum?
nt
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Read what I wrote carefully.
You will see that the proposals will make the democratic party more powerful and will give progressive and moderate politicians the platforms that they need to eliminate the right wing fools that are infesting our national politics. But it does not seem that your mind is open enough to see the possibilities that I laid out. Instead of selling out, I have laid out a path that will accomplish the end goal of making the nation more progressive and tolerant while at the same time sending extremists to the dustbin.

BTW. This forum needs different voices proposing novel policies. It a lemming like mentality is taken, we can rest assured as democrats we will become and remain a minority party that has no sway over national policies.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Obviously I read it and disagree - and no we really don't need liberatarian voices on this site imo.
nt
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Libertarian?
If you think the viewpoint that I gave is libertarian, you don't know what a libertarian is. To me, a libertarian is a person that wants a free lunch, but has no concept of how that lunch is paid for. I am not proposing lower taxes because I realize that any functioning society must have well thought out taxation. Societies that function the best have good taxation and spending policies, this is the reason why blue states are better educated and wealthier than red states, leaders in blue states over decades have put more focus on education and innovation and have kept taxation focused on how much taxation is needed to accomplish societal goals, or have been forced to that focus by democratic legislatures.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Are you Rick Perry? I swear he said about the same thing while
explaining why he wanted to opt out of Medicaid and let Texas handle it.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. No. Abolishing social security won't make the democratic party more powerful.
States are disinclined and incapable of dealing with the bigger picture.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. No so.
My state has the most innovative elder policies in the nation. We would likely do a better job than the FEDs. I suspect that other blue states that have innovative democratic governors will also shine. I do project that states that are heavily republican will have problems servicing their elderly, but maybe that issues will induce those elders to do something other than become avid social conservatives. Problems will induce elders that are not conservatives to get off their duff, vote and convince as many family to vote for candidates that have people as their first priority. Any focus on policies that help people favors democrats. My question for you is do you really want to keep propping up Haley Barbour, or do you want policies that will expose him as a self serving, lobbyist, backroom wheller dealer?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. The state governments are more captured and corrupt than the Federal cesspool
for the most part.

I think you are approaching the Republican delusion of government with a different emphasis on why to go there.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I disagree.
Massachusetts is run pretty well. We have pockets of resisting corruption, but those people are being exposed and convicted. Our re-elected governor has conducted three years of innovative governance, once he got past some self inflicted wounds during his first year. Massachusetts is doing better than the rest of the country and will continue to open that gap. Forcing states to manage many existing federal functions will expose corrupt governors, and more importantly force the citizens of states to watch over their state government and vote intelligently. I am confident that Jerry Brown, Deval Patrick and the incoming democratic governors of Vermont and New York are more ethical and innovative than their republican counterparts. Having those governors control more of the federal tax money generated in their states will allow them to tailor policy to the needs of their citizens, and having broader responsibility will open them up to scrutiny and defeat at the polls, except for Patrick, who is done after this term. But Patrick is my state's governor, I have lived the innovative policies that he has given the state and have confidence in his integrity and forward looking goals for the state. But allowing Haley Barbour, the incoming governors of Florida and South Carolina to control their depleted state funds, sans dollars from blue states, will expose them as the frauds that they are and if reason prevails, should set them up for defeat by democrats when they seek re-election. Failure to enact federal tax and spending policies will shore up Barbour, Scott and Haley and insure that other states will be lured republican by the web of lies and impossible to achieve policy proposals that party spins out.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I didn't assert that none of the states functioned reasonably
but that MOST are more corrupt, captured, and failing than the Federal Government.


We have 50 states and it is pretty bold to say it is easy to even name ten nicely well run states.

Even California would have to register as fairly jacked up and is more than a competent to even a great Governor away from functional.

I'd say favoring a strong central government attracts people to the party from the MAJORITY of states to our party. Imagining the fuckheads in Frankfort making more decisions is piss in my pants scary and that's when Democrats are firmly in charge. A Republican would make you fucking pine and beg for some dumbass Dubya, the want and angst would be Shakespearian for the man as compared to say an Ernie Fletcher.

Only thing worse than state government is local government, were it not for the constitution and the literal lack of scope there is no telling what travesties they and their checkless police would cook up. There are plenty exceptions but the rule blows goats.

I totally understand the logic but beg to strongly differ on real life application. "Small Government" is a corrupt and company/corporate government. Not in this world, at this time. Hell, California is a top 10 economy in the world and even they can't fight the insurance cartel.

We are in a hell of a pickle with corporate capture now because of the global scope of these multi-nationals is freeing them of mid and long term need for even the largest consumer base in the world, states and localities haven't a prayer.

The world was borderline too big two hundred years ago, way too much toothpaste has got out of the tube now for the will of the people to even register. The decay will only hasten when "right to work" gone wild bust loose on th scene. The wage destruction, environmental devastation, and the insane pressure on the few well governed states to capitulate as almost all the jobs go to the new slave states will make the current nightmare seem like a wet dream.

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. They don't care what we're fed up with as long as we don't fight back meaningfully. Rec'd n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-13-10 10:29 AM by Catherina
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. $928 for a Bag of Salt: How Drugmakers Rip Off Taxpayers
By Jim Edwards | November 2, 2010

The most surprising thing about Louisiana’s new drug pricing lawsuit is the allegation, buried on page 12, that Baxter International (BAX) sold salt and sugar to Medicaid for $928 a bag. That fact alone tells you all you need to know about why healthcare costs in the U.S. are going up when they could be coming down: The law allows drug companies to rook state Medicaid and federal Medicare programs by preventing the agencies from negotiating drug prices:

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/928-for-a-bag-of-salt-how-drugmakers-rip-off-taxpayers/6309
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. From Revolutionary War thru 1990's total debt - $12 trillion... Bailouts $12 TRILLION in 18 months!!
Our Treasury and taxpayer pockets were drained to bail out CORRUPT and CRIMINAL

capitalism --

which these same politicians permitted to run loose by deregulating them!!!

Enjoying the Carousel ride?



How many TRILLIONS are still missing and unaccountable for that Pentagon

has lost track of? $3.4 TRILLION or more??
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