I don't have any trouble with the TSA - and as I've posted elsewhere,

[hedgehog]

I don't see their behavior as any different than security agents in England, Switzerland, Germany, England, Ireland and Brazil. My husband is a very frequent flier, and adds Canada, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy, the Emirates, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore to that list.

When we fly, we're flying on the company nickel encountering other working stiffs just doing their job.
Granted, in any large group of people, there are a certain number of jerks. I will allow that on any given day, there will be TSA agents who are surly and/or power hungry. I've never run into them. I'm generally very tense and preoccupied at the start of a trip, and very tired and foggy at the end, so I'm not at my best when I go through Security. I've had to be reminded to remove my shoes, and once I had some vendor freebies from a trade show in my purse. I was thinking of them as tools for opening UPS boxes, and didn't connect that the technical term for those items was "box cutters". So I can say that I've been pulled aside for extra searching both at random and with reason, and always been treated with courtesy.

So, again allowing for the fact that some TSA agents are jerks, I have these questions:

1. How many people who have trouble with the TSA have trouble with any authority figures?

2. How many people who have trouble with TSA agents are white people dealing with a person of color in an authority position?

3. How many people who have trouble with TSA agents view themselves as upper class or at least middle class and the agents as lower class?

4. How many people who have trouble with the TSA agents also have complaints about bossy flight attendants?

[derby378]

1. The real question is, why should we have to put up with this in the first place?

It's all about intimidating us and keeping us afraid. We're supposed to be better than that.

[hedgehog]

3. Because after 9/11 governments around the world recognized that

some hijackers will not negotiate.

Why do people lock their car doors?

Why do most public buildings have metal detectors?

Why do many schools have metal detectors?


On edit: because even if you are white/female/old/from the suburbs/ etc, you could still be a terrorist.

[derby378]

5. Excellent question - WHY so much emphasis on scaring people?

We spend all this money on metal detectors in schools and then we complain we don't have enough money for schoolbooks.

Columbine was an isolated incident, and the sooner people realize this, the better. Vigilance is good, but scaring everyone shitless doesn't work. Bowling for Columbine illustrated that rather nicely.

Why do I complain about the full-body scans and the intrusive crotch-checks? Because we shouldn't have to submit to either.

[hedgehog]

9. As far as I know, most schools with metal detectors are

in large cities with a lot of shootings.

I'm not really a sheep - I was very irritated when the school district here hired door monitors. I had to take a kid to the doctor on a weekly basis, and every week i had to fill out a pass at the door, walk 10 feet to the office, fill out another pass, pick up my kid, then hand in the passes I'd just filled out. Meanwhile, no one ever checked my ID! I think I can understand the difference between reasonable and unreasonable security measures.

[Mojorabbit]

7. I used to travel often both here in the US and overseas

and have never had an invasive pat down except here in the states. I do not like having a stranger run their hands over my body while I stand spreadeagled with an audience watching. I don't like feeling violated and I don't like the assumption that I may be a criminal when I am just trying to get from one destination to another. Your list of reasons one might not like submitting to a search is severely lacking.

[hedgehog]

10. It's not just you, but I always see the reference to "other people

watching". If it makes you feel any better, no one else is watching you. They're too busy looking for their gate!

[Mojorabbit]

20. The last time it happened

there was a small crowd watching and many comments but that is not the point.
I resent the insinuation I may have a problem with authority or the other options you gave because I don't like being touched by strangers in this way. It doesn't matter if anyone is watching or no. It makes me feel horribly violated.

[Caretha]

21. Oh that makes it all better

you are full of it.

[jberryhill]

32. Seriously

Like anybody gives a shit if someoene gets pulled over for a secondary.

Nobody is standing around gawking at security procedures

I fly internationally, and the closest inspection I ever had was in Thailand before boarding a domestic flight from Bangkok to Phuket.

I got a nice back massage from a TSA guy at SFO once.

I have no doubt that most of the "TSA Nazi" stuff is from people who don't fly, or from Ma & Pa Kettle types.

Meanwhile, if your kid wants to play sports, he's still gotta turn his head and cough while someone checks for a hernia.

[bettyellen]

52. Wrong, no one watches MEN getting felt up, but my friend sure drew a crowd of men

the way the TSA officer felt up her thighs under her mini dress looked pretty much like the beginning of a porno. there were about five guys who stopped and stared, i know because I was waiting for her, and they were jostling in front of me for a better view.

[Skittles]

122. maybe if the men wore mini dresses?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. However, the elite in this area laugh at our so called protective measures

There is a clue there for the rest of us

[walldude]

74. But if the true point is safety then why

is every passenger searched but only 20% of the luggage and freight that go in the belly of the plane x-rayed?

[Skittles]

2. I travel frequently; have never had problems with TSA folk

[hedgehog]

6. Probably because you see them as "folk" and not jack-booted oppressors!

Courtesy tends to be a two way street!

[leftstreet]

4. Why are TSA agents doing the CIA's work for them?

If the intel community is that lame, disband it. Stop funding it. Give us the fucking money and we'll all just routinely pat each other down.

[Lisa0825]

8. I have never had a problem with TSA agents. But I am uncomfortable

with the descriptions of the new pat downs. I just flew to NYC and back last weekend, and did not get patted down, but I wore a sports bra to ensure no underwire would set off the wand. The idea of a total stranger feeling me up makes me feel less likely to fly.

[hobbit709]

11. I was treated better by security behind the old Iron Curtain

than I am by the new wannabe Gestapo here and now.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. I was not. They scared my mother and pointed guns at me.

I was 12. Guns. Pointed at me. 12.

[marmar]

12. I've never had any trouble with TSA....most of the time they're friendly, but.......

...... it's Security Kabuki Theatre. I watched a national news cast when reporters attempted to sneak dangerous items through security at airports across the country, and they were successful 7 out of 10 times.

[hedgehog]

13. which may be why the TSA is adding the scanners.......

:think:

[marmar]

15. And the results likely won't change....

:think: :think:

[jberryhill]

91. The results?

I'm convinced that people here are, by and large, too young to remember when we used to have highjackings on a regular basis.

That was tolerable at a given incidence, but the willingness of people to die in the course of making a point has changed the game.

[seabeyond]

116. regular basis? for real? is that what you are remembering? across the world

how many in the u.s.?

[seabeyond]

117. i googled. 11 planes from 1950-1999. 65 worldwide from '50-'99. nt

[seabeyond]

118. 1,300 plane crashes in that time from commercial aircraft

In data compiled by planecrashinfo.com of 1,300 fatal accidents of commercial aircraft across the world from 1950 to 2000, total pilot error emerges as the main contributor (total pilot errors includes pilot error, pilot error due to weather and pilot error due to mechanical failure).

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_pilot-error-no-1-reason-behind-plane-crashes-50-year-data-shows_1387357

[jberryhill]

120. Highjackers didn't used to crash or try to blow up the plane

What are you looking at crashes for?

[seabeyond]

123. no, the hijackers didnt. the point being, a lot more chances for a crahs than the "regularly"

hijacked planes

[seabeyond]

14. BS. 1. no problems with ALL bosses or parents. 2. mine was same age white lady

younger white man, same age white lady. 3. middle class and assuming those i dealt with were at least middle class, if i would have even considered, which i didnt. 4. never had any issue ever with any flight attendent ever. further, i have always been impressed with flight attendant and he and she has always treated me well.

now what?

naked scanners or groped.

over the line

[janewin]

16. God forbids

the terrorist realize how easy it will be to destroy this country economically by just exploding a bomb in a movie theater and a mall then we will have to install those expensive devices in millions of new buildings. As for the TSA, i got for the pat down bcos as long as I live, i will never let them take a naked pic of me.

[Caretha]

22. I like what you said janewin

and welcome to DU.

[Mimosa]

98. I've long wondered why they haven't

BTW,welcome to D.U, Janewin.

[The Straight Story]

17. If you are against anything the govt does you are a libertarian

:rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

18. The issue is that TSA is the part of the DHS that affects very personally the average citizen

The real question is not about some asshole in a TSA suit. The real question is the whole damned security apparatus that STILL doesn't check the real vulnerabilities, but has the ability to peek INSIDE your most private spots.



edit to add the word "peek," which clarifies the intent of the post

[marmar]

19. Exactly.

nt

[sally cat]

23. As long as the public doesn't mind and there's no complaints, who cares what the TSA does?

[SheilaT]

24. If they were actually totally serious

about security on commercial flights, we would all be required to strip naked, carry NOTHING on board, not even diapers for infants because, of course, "you never know". Or tampons for women, either. If we'd be lucky they'd issue us hospital gowns so we wouldn't all be forced to look at each other's naked bodies.

The current system simply assumes that everyone is probably intent on blowing up planes, which is beyond ludicrous.

I am honestly surprised that we haven't had lots of other kinds of incidents in this country that could really bring things to a screeching halt as one other poster noted. Which simply proves that the so-called terrorists are both incompetent and not as numerous as we're being led to believe.

[noamnety]

25. I've had problems with TSA

Specifically, I did not appreciate standing spread eagle with my arms outstretched, and the fucking TSA agent with absolutely no warning lifting my shirt up exposing my bra in the middle of a crowd and in front of my male coworkers and boss.

That's not a problem with authority figures.

It's a problem with being expected to put up with what would be considered sexual assault under any other circumstance, and being put in a position where I'm afraid of being arrested or tasered if I move my arms to cover myself up.

[seabeyond]

26. eew. i would be pissed. really pissed.

flashing you for the boss.... geez. what did he say, or everyone pretend it didnt happen

[noamnety]

31. We all pretended it didn't happen.

But it definitely affected my willingness to fly. I never had a fear of flying - heck, I've jumped out of planes. But I tense up at the thought of going through an airport now, same as other people might react to snakes or spiders.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. I have a problem with power abusing idiots in general.

Airport security is for the most part an annoying waste of everyone's time, and in general a massive violation of constitutional rights. Most of the TSA agents are decent humans who are doing their job. Some are massive dick heads.

You are right about one thing: power abusing dickheads are a universal human phenomena.

[NJCher]

28. I answered all your questions

And didn't find them particularly meaningful or even interesting. What are you trying to do--imply that DUers are racist?

Have other issues they are concealing with their disgust for intrusive practices?

How condescending.


Cher

[dflprincess]

29. I have no problem with TSA overall but there are a few jerks

and if you give a low paid jerk a little authority they are going to turn into a real asshole.

I flew out of Nashville last week and usually securtiy moves pretty quickly there but one of the TSA guys checking IDs and boarding passes apparently had a reading problem or was just enjoying taking his time. Naturally, I was in his line, and passed the time by noticing that for every one person this guy let through the other guy checking IDs was letting 4-5 get by. And no, he wasn't just being thorough, I've never had a TSA agent apparently feel the need to read each and every line on everyones' ID & boarding pass before and then hold the ID up like he was comparing the picture to the person standing in front of him.

Other than that, I think the whole thing is a farce. Metal detectors fine, Xray the carry ons but the shoe & liquid thing is just bad theater.

[darkstar3]

30. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with "illegal search"?

Agents of the government have no reason to suspect that I personally am carrying something illegal or that I am a threat to the other people on that airplane. It is for that lack of reasonable suspicion that such procedures constitute an illegal search, and I have no doubt that if this new pat-down procedure ever gets a judicial review a judge will see it the same way.

Now, how about you add "unwilling to sacrifice privacy or rights in general for the illusion of security" to your list?

[jberryhill]

33. Oh I gotta hear this...

I'd like to hear your brief on this.

Try to avoid the use of the term "Terry stop" in it, since you can be lawfully frisked there too.

[darkstar3]

36. I think I was clear.

In order for an agent of law enforcement or national security to perform a search, they must have reasonable suspicion. Can you argue that TSA agents at the airport HAVE reasonable suspicion with regard to every single passenger? I don't think you or anyone else can.

[jberryhill]

57. Get your money back from your crim pro professor

"Reasonable" means reasonable under the circumstances.

I suggest you catch up on United States v. Davis, 482 F.2d 893 (9th Cir. 1973), and citations thereto, before you make a legal argument that was been a non-starter for nearly forty years.

[darkstar3]

60. That legal argument was a non-starter only when the searches in question

were significantly less invasive. If you read the opinion on the decision you will find that the term "reasonable expectation of privacy" is included more than once. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy for those parts of my body which are commonly referred to as "private parts".

Furthermore, the US v. Davis decision, when read in light of current events, is yet another example of how easy it is to get US citizens to cede rights to the government when under threat of terrorism. The entire argument of the government in section II regarding "reasonable expectation of privacy" for a briefcase is based on the fact that airport screenings had been in place for years before Mr. Davis attempted to carry his gun on board. "We've been doing this for years, it's too late to complain" is not a defense I would like to see used in, say, a future case regarding warrantless wiretapping.

[jberryhill]

66. "When read in light of current events..."

Yeah... Some guy just tried to bring down a plane with explosives in his underwear.

[darkstar3]

78. Your point?

[jberryhill]

90. So... Go be the test case

Since you have such a brilliant legal analysis behind you, you'll get a huge award in your civil case.

[COLGATE4]

73. You are incorrect. Courts have ruled that TSA security checkpoints

are similar to border control checkpoints, therefore there is no need for a reasonable, articulable suspicion in order to search. In addition, you have given your consent to be searched when you proceed into a TSA checkpoint. If you are not comfortable with it, you are free to turn around and leave. Sorry, but that is the law.

[darkstar3]

77. Read the subthread before your post.

Courts have ruled in the past that passengers have no right to fourth amendment protection when they have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy for your "private parts"?

[Book Lover]

34. Have you had your tits groped yet?

After you do, come back and sing this same song.

[uppityperson]

35. I have had problems with a couple. Mostly not but having even a minority of those in power assholes

makes a lot of negative impact on everyone. Like police. A few bad apples can spoil a lot and make it a lot harder for their co-workers and we people.

To answer your questions:
1. no
2. was harassed by person with similar skin color to mine
3. hahahahahahahaha. no, not in the least. as if.
4. haven't had any run ins or noticed "bossy flight attendants".

To recap, I've flown 2-3 trips/yr and have had trouble with any TSA agents only a couple times in the last 9 yrs. That was enough to make me cautious of them. Rather like police after I got harassed by a cop a few yrs back. The problem is the jerks can impact so many beyond the individuals they are jerks to.

[Scuba]

37. After literally hundreds of flights I've had zero problems.....

...with the TSA. On one occasion an agent was perhaps a little smitten with his power, but did nothing outrageous.

Otherwise pleasant and respectful, civil servants trying to do their job to the best of their ability.


(edited for grammar)

[trumad]

42. That's how I see it...

They can't be making much money but they do the best they can in a job that's got to be an occasional pain in the ass.

I think a thread should be posted asking about the passengers.

Most haven't a clue about flying---and that's OK---because they don't get to fly that often....but they do make for some great comedic moments.

Especially in the security line. Arguing why they have to take their shoes off---- walking through the metal scanner with Mr T. type bling.... carrying water bottles through.... forgetting their bags as they head for the terminal...

I can see why the TSA'ers can get exasperated......

Don't get me wrong--- I am certain there are TSA employees out there that let the power go to their head....but honestly, inst that a problem in most workplaces?

[Scuba]

49. You make an excellent point that the passengers are far worse than the TSA employees. Thanks.

[redirish28]

38. My wife refuses to fly after 9/11 not because of terrorists or anything like that

she dropped her mother off at the airport one christmas and waited until her mother was pass the "screaning" process just in case her mom couldn't take a present on the flight (it was a child's bedroom lamp with Dinsey Characters on it) She said it disscused her. That "We gave up our freedom for nothing" (She's one of those people who do not believe the Offical story--she doesn't believe in a COMPLETE inside job. She thinks the higher ups let 9/11 happen knowing what type of freedom they are going to try and take away.)


She was appauled at 4 years old having full pat downs and body scans done.


She believes the "No Fly List" is nothing more than political harrassment. Why is it that the majority of the people are people who spoke out against "W" or else little kids.

She thinks we as American citizens allowed ourselves to be protected out of our common sense.

[eShirl]

39. 5) How many people who have trouble with the TSA agents are survivors of sexual abuse?

[Gormy Cuss]

55. Shhh... don't bring up uncomfortable truths.

6)How many people who have trouble with TSA agents are survivors of domestic abuse?

[trumad]

40. I've flown 50,000 miles in the last 5 months...

and have hit just about every major airport in the country.

So far---no bad experiences. They can be a little inconsistent with what they want pulled from your bag--- liquids for instance. Most just let you keep it in your bag---although they still still need to be 3oz and under....but some---smaller airports, make you pull them and place them in the container.

Seriously though--- I've had no problems.

With that said---I'm about as white-bread as they come and I'm certain that helps.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. How many people do you see opting out of the imaging scanners?

[trumad]

51. Honestly--- They are pretty new to the scene and I haven't seen that many just yet.

[Obamanaut]

41. A reasonable OP. This will get you nowhere. Rec. nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

43. Those pieces of shit have robbed me three times this year

In the last year TSA "officers" have stolen from me:

An iPod Touch (SEA)
A Nokia 3500 Classic (JFK) (Locked to South African carrier MTN... so have fun with that)
and a prescription antibiotic (PHX) (a little blue pill that looks like Viagra)

Insisting on making a police report in Seattle was poorly received to say the least and the white trash chick who had inspected my bag promptly disappeared on break. The final boarding announcement for my flight was made before the police arrived. In the other two instances I didn't notice the item had been stolen till I reached my destination.

The TSA is our very own "thug caste" where lowlifes who crave authority congregate so they may with the color of authority abuse and harass others. These bags of shit getting arrested to various crimes, mostly theft makes the news every few days.

Fuck'em

[Bluenorthwest]

44. What class do you fly? What company's 'nickel' are you on?

These things matter. Big time. Additionally, it sounds like you and hubby are flying the world for business, under business circumstances mostly. To be blunt, you are beingn paid for the search, it is part of the job description for you and hubby, and it sounds like he is probably compensated rather well.
I have personally been flying the world since I was a child, and I've encountered 'security' of all kinds, including the Middle East, 'Iron Curtain' when we had one, and other routes of high concern. I've been subjected to searches by soldiers, alone in a room when I was 13 on forign soil, been searched and interviewed multiple times by agents who knew my face on sight, you name it, I've done it. In addition, I have in the past had need of personal security when travelling, not for me alone but for our group. Security in general is something that I very much see as protection for me, and often it has been specifically that-others checked out for the safety of me and my peers. You got through metal detectors to get in. We don't. Just some context for what I am about to say.
My problem with the TSA is that they suck eggs. They are doing a puppet show that looks like security measures, not practicing methods that actually work. The things that bother people, intrusive pat downs, that sort of thing, they are done for the display of it, not because it needs to be done. I know what real security looks like, and that is not it. The TSA is involved in way too much theater about security, too involved in making you feel safe, as opposed to creating safety.
The problems for me are about the quality of their work. If they were my personal detail, I'd fire them and replace them with those who practice actual security measures.

[jberryhill]

53. I'm a small business owner and fly on my own nickel

The screeners don't know or care who paid for your ticket or what class it is.

My wife and I fly just about every month. Occasionally one or the other of us gets secondaried, and it doesn't matter if it is a coach ticket or an upgrade.

[hedgehog]

54. We generally fly economy class. I think my husband flew business class

to and from Korea one time.

[high density]

46. My problem with the TSA is the policy, not the staff

Electronic strip searching and/or pat downs to get on a plane is too much.

What happens next when somebody shoves a bomb up their ass? It seems like no matter what we do, bombs are unfortunately going to get on planes and people are going to die. The TSA could have us flying naked and luggageless and it could still happen.

[panzerfaust]

50. Well, good for you

Likely you don't carry dangerous things like cameras (I usually have at least three), shampoo, computers, dive equipment, water, books (OK, so having the 'Monkey Wrench Gang' for on-board reading might not have been a great idea: after all, this IS the New Safe Amerika), nail clippers (with the ever dangerous file), teensy nostril hair scissors, more than the allowed number of camera batteries (the limit was 2) ... yeah, I have had my share of problems with TSA - and apparently have had your share as well.

The worst was watching a TSA 'agent' running HIS hands all over an 8 year old girl in front of the herding throngs. Not my kid would that have happened to.

Most of airport 'security' is nothing but bullshit and done simply for show - and to intimidate the public & get us used to 'police' power.

"Explosive Liquids" are my current non-favorite.

Really, can anyone here here name an explosive liquid that, in 3.5 ounce quantity (since 3 is safe) - or even in 1 gallon quantity - that could actually present a danger to an aircraft (and that is stable enough to get onto an aircraft in the first place). Such a liquid explosive exists only in the fantasy world of movies and 'HomeLand' Security.

I travel by air less than I used to, simply because I do not like spending any more time in a police state than I have to.

[hedgehog]

82. How about a computer, camera and C-PAP machine ? Not to mention

the time I bought a garden gnome in England, carried it to Germany, then on to the US. The security people at Frankfurt wiped it down to make sure it wasn't concealing explosives, and it occurred to me that they were looking for nitrates - on an object that had been sitting next to sacks of fertilizer. So yes, I have been through security with strange things. My son goes though security all the time with a case full of specialty instruments for fine tuning high speed industrial turbines.
He doesn't have any complaints.


Liquids that can cause problems on an airplane? How about gasoline, kerosene, butane, any oil (even olive oil burns), rubbing alcohol and drain cleaner for starters? Not all those are explosive, but all could start a fire or be turned into a weapon.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. Unfortunately, your OP can be summarized this way:

You don't have any trouble with TSA, and neither should we.

Having everyone walk through metal detectors sans shoes and jackets was just annoying. The naked scan vs. prison patdown? That's one step over the line.

And "bossy flight attendants" is something that used to be rare but now is rather common place because I suspect that many of them hate their jobs these days. I understand why one lost it and escaped from his plane as soon as it hit the ground. I'm surprised more of them haven't followed suit.

[October]

63. They're flight attendants -- not BOSSY flight attendants

The airlines have put the flight attendants on the front line. They are the lowest paid and take the most abuse. When baggage has to be stowed -- the passengers take it out on the attendants. When there aren't enough peanuts, the passengers take it out on the cabin crew.

They have authority, and will be pleasant until pressed because sometimes people on planes act out. They just do.

I was recently on a plane where the guy behind me, traveling with his spouse and a 2-year old ARGUED about buckling his young daughter's seatbelt. I listened as the flight attendant asked him at least 4 times to please buckle the belt. Finally, the passenger said, "WHY?" and the exasperated attendant said, "Because it's the law!"

[Gormy Cuss]

109. Exasperation it is.

and that makes flight attendants seem more "bossy" these days. With fewer per passenger, limited meal service, and video safety demonstrations there's little interaction on a typical flight other than the cabin checks at the beginning and end of the flight and yes, they're bossy about set backs and seat belt compliance because they have very little time to check all the rows assigned.

It used to be that if they were the model of patience when dealing with difficult people and that was how they were marketed to customers -- the calm, smiling face on board. That's no longer the case on most domestic flights. The flight attendants look harried. I'm aware of just how many ways they are getting the short end of the stick these days, which is why I wrote that I'm surprised more of them aren't emulating Steven Slater.

[October]

58. Why "bossy" flight attendants?

[hedgehog]

61. Some people bristle whenever they are given instructions by

someone they consider to be beneath them. The attendant that tells someone they have to gate check the over sized bag becomes the "bossy" attendant. There are also people out there who treat store clerks, waitresses, etc as their personal servants.

[krabigirl]

59. I do have a problem with the fact that you cant fly without either being seen nude or sexually grope

So y eah, i have a problem with them. So scary to see so this support of this agency by the "left."

[Matariki]

62. You need to do more research. The current options for flying are TERRIBLE

Either be photographed naked and get a dose of radiation or be aggressively groped in the breasts and genital with the front of the hands. This includes CHILDREN and rape and sexual abuse survivors. Parents have to allow their children to either be photographed nude or groped in the privates by strangers.

I HAVE A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THIS AND SO SHOULD YOU.

Read up on the topic and weep:
http://pncminnesota.wordpress.com/2010/11/08/rape-survivor-devasted-by-tsa-enhanced-pat-down/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/tyner1.1.1.html
http://wewontfly.com/

[jberryhill]

67. I look at it this way...

With fewer casual fliers and their neuroses, there might be more room in coach.

[A HERETIC I AM]

69. LOL...

I don't know exactly why I think your post is funny, but it sure as hell made me laugh out loud.

Interesting and funny response.

I like your sense of humor!

[Matariki]

71. Funny, but I wonder if you think rape survivor's discomfort at stangers groping them

& asserting authority to do so is funny?

I wonder if you'd feel different if a TSA agent ever makes you stand still while the stick their finger in your ass.

[jberryhill]

84. Two things

1. They are not doing cavity searches, so your second remark is simply hyperbole.

2. I travel with someone who was indeed an abuse victim. She is also an adult who has grown up and understands that some TSA agent who does this 500 times a day is not lookin for thrills.

Thus my reference to "neuroses". If you can't understand the difference between a sexual assault and a security pat down, then you need therapy.

[Matariki]

87. They are doing front hand groping of genitals, breasts and buttholes.

Perhaps that's something you enjoy?

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

99. The notion that it is "sexual" is a function of your own perversion

Right, because every fucking TSA agent is "sexually neutral", behaves with perfect integrity and would NEVER abuse their petty power.

And people that have been abused in the past, or children who have been taught not to allow strangers to touch them 'there' can just pretend nothing uncomfortable is happening.

Let's see here - these are the folks you think are so damn professional that there's nothing sexual about it but "my perversion"

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/miami-airport-tsa-officer-charged-assault-manhood-jokes/story?id=10583691

A Miami Transportation Security Administration screener was arrested this week after allegedly using an expandable police baton to beat up a co-worker in an airport parking lot.

The reason for the assault: police said the victim and other TSA employees had been making fun of the size of the screener's genitals.

http://newtech.aurum3.com/technology/tsa-in-trouble-for-keeping-naked-photos-of-passengers/

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has admitted that they’ve stored more than 35,000 controversial body scanning images, despite their previously stating the images can not be saved or recorded. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just get the passengers to check them without clothes on?

There should be better process in place for scanning passengers. Would you want your images turn up in reality porn videos?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=7447038

They are the backbone of airport security. The TSA screeners who watch to make sure nothing dangerous is put into travel bags, but at JFK Airport, it's what's being taken out that has some passengers upset.

"The money was here," said passenger, Gwen Bartlett.

"That was an expensive piece of jewelry, I want my watch," said passenger, Michelle Sugg.

Those three people are among the dozens of travelers whom have had valuables stolen while going through TSA screening checkpoints at JFK in just the past 8 months.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

104. Greyhound put it best down thread. Good dog.

And you should get on the ground and kiss the feet of people with more courage than you - who stand up for our collective rights and say enough is enough.

I'm sure if it were 1955 you'd be ragging on Ms. Parks for delaying your damned bus ride.

You are the opposite of progress.

[JVS]

111. LOL

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. You know the main problem with TSA?

These are mommy devices that make you feel safer. A committed terrarist will be able to fool all this crap, and that includes pat downs and these advanced machines.

They might make you feel better... but they are just one more hoop for somebody really committed.

Lemme see... ink toners are out... but I need to take off my belt?

What's the logic there?

We LOST this war a while ago. The goal of terror is to CHANGE the target society... well I think they have... in incredible ways. Insofar as the US is concerned... we should just REMOVE the fourth Amendment from the Bill of Rights and be done with it. For all intents and purposes it already has.

As to MOST TSA and other security agents around the world they are just doing a job that is not necessarily nice. Oh and to being patted down... I have, before they brought this to the US, they demanded this in FOREIGN Airports...

[iris27]

65. I have no issue with individual enforcers, just the policies themselves.

I have to enforce a lot of shit at my job that I personally don't like.

I just don't see how this is going to make anyone safer, and I *do* see how horrible it would be for, say, survivors of sexual abuse. Can you imagine how triggering these new pat-downs would be for someone like that?

And really, what good will it do? If they feel a menstrual pad, or a Depends, or a colostomy bag, or prosthetic breasts, during their search? Are they going to pull that person aside and make them prove that's what it is? If so, that takes the invasiveness level of this search to horrifyingly EPIC proportions. If not...that's a super-easy way for terrorists to smuggle stuff past even this "improved" pat-down.

I think it's beyond the pale to assume people have race or class issues with TSA agents themselves, just because they don't want to submit to ever-increasingly-invasive security theater.

[readmoreoften]

68. My problem with the TSA has absolutely nothing to do with class issues.

If I was in an internment camp, my guards would be working-class as well, as am I. This has nothing to do with it.

[HipChick]

70. People doing the least amount of flying seem to be complaining the loudest..

Like the OP as a frequent flier have not run into that many problems

[Matariki]

72. You do realize that policies have changed drastically in the past month?

That the full body scanners and the way pat downs are now conducted have changed?

[HipChick]

75. Old news..I've been using the full body scanners since they were being tested in beta mode

at select airports..I fly a minimum of twice per week,fully aware of the pat downs - I'm less worried about the pat downs than what TSA are still letting slid through..

[darkstar3]

79. Ah, the "I have nothing to hide" routine.

You may not care that they can see you naked and store the photos for further review, but I do. And make no mistake, the invasive and uncomfortable pat-down procedures are an attempt to bully people through those scanners.

[Matariki]

80. Great. Hope you have adequate health insurance to cover the damage.

[jberryhill]

86. Do you know that flying increases your radiation exposure?

I'll bet you don't

[Matariki]

88. Why in the hell are you such an apologist for such a blatant invasion of privacy rights?

What's your motive? It's absurd.

Either you are woefully uneducated on the subject or you are willfully supporting this nonsense for reasons of your own.

[jberryhill]

106. Oh it's because I'm a paid fascist agent of the apocalypse

This gets so boring.

I disagree that TSA procedures are the end of the world.

[Matariki]

94. For your edification:

Reputable scientists have issue with these machines. Not because of the dose of radiation, but because of the way it's concentrate on the skin.

There are plenty of articles you can research and get a better understanding. Additionally the health issues are only one part of the concern. Perhaps you should get a copy of the Constitution and familiarize yourself with the forth amendment. Perhaps you should also contemplate what it means for a society to get comfortable with giving bits of it's dignity and privacy away one piece at a time.

Here's one link for you - with quotes from scientists a tJohns Hopkins University school of medicine and at the University of California.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Naked+scanners+airports+dangerous+scientists/3819955/story.html

I confess that I wonder if you are really interested in following that link or care about constitutional rights. Hopefully I'm wrong about why you're here.

[jberryhill]

107. No... I don't care about constitutional rights

How many pro bono civil rights cases have you taken in your career, counselor?

[Matariki]

76. EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD - please watch this news video

Especially folks who claim to be frequent fliers not encountering this stuff.

The TSA have just changed their screening process. Your past experience isn't relevant to this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td37495sIkY&feature=related

Watch the demo of the new pat down procedure at the 35 second mark. It's damn creepy.

The more things like this we allow, the more privacy and self governance we will incrementally lose.

[noamnety]

83. Jesus.

Yeah, I'm done flying. Are they actually grabbing and squeezing men's dicks and balls too?

[Matariki]

85. Yes.

[sally cat]

93. Agreed. I'm reading these responses and wondering wtf, are they OK with this? Change indeed.

[Matariki]

95. It's a specific handful of people. It happens.

[KamaAina]

81. How much danger does a microwaveable beef stew present?

I happened to have one left over from my trip up here for my interview. Frugal guy that I am, I decided to take it back with me. Bad mistake. Your heroes at TSA pulled me over for the beef stew! It has more than three ounces of liquid in it, you see. Never mind that it was still in its package, sealed at the factory.

Signed,
The Beef Stew Bomber :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prometheus Bound]

101. Your attitude on this thread is totally inappropriate - sarcasm, insults and general nastiness.

It could have been quite an interesting thread examining both perspectives, but your insults make the thread painful to read.

Examples
32. Ma and Pa Kettle types
57. Get your money back from your crim pro professor
90. Since you have such a brilliant legal analysis behind you
67. casual fliers and their neuroses
84. you need therapy.
92. The notion that it is "sexual" is a function of your own perversion.
86. Do you know that flying increases your radiation exposure? I'll bet you don't
89. Are you, like, illiterate or something?

[jberryhill]

105. I see, but calling TSA employees nazi's and perverts is a-ok

Got it.

I do not apologize for saying that there is some real projection going on with calling it "sexual groping".

These are the types who call the police when people take pictures of their kid playing in the bathtub.

And, absolutely, if some "legal scholar" wants to advise people to put on the "I'm being oppressed" act at the airport, I'm going to call out the bankruptcy of that legal argument in no uncertain terms.

[KamaAina]

113. Who called anyone a nazi or a pervert?

Certainly not me. "Busybody" would be more like it.

[haifa lootin]

102. You could have used it to plug up the toilet, which makes the airplane explode.

Or something like that...

[KamaAina]

114. DUzy!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sally cat]

96. Trouble is the media is sympathetic to passengers' concerns and are making this a public relations

nightmare. No one thinks these new procedures have anything to do with safety and they are voicing that feeling.

[haifa lootin]

97. Frog. Water. Stove. Boil.

...

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucian]

108. Your post makes me sad.

The whole apathy towards being groped and photographed in your personal areas is sickening. Can you imagine the trauma that rape or molested victims could go through when they get groped in the name of national security?

[Warren DeMontague]

110. Here's my problem with the TSA 'security' stuff- let's be honest, it's for show.

the shit about the 3 oz. of liquid, the other stuff- it's designed to remind you that, yes, WE'RE DOING SOMETHING. And honestly, I think most of the time they're focused on finding the hippie with the bag of weed in the carry on, maybe they get some kind of extra donut at the end of the shift when they find one.

If it was really making us safer, I think it might be marginally worth it, but I don't think it is. I don't feel any safer because Whitney Houston didn't arrive at LAX with her stash.

That said, I don't give a shit if they want to give me the naked x-ray (I'm looking pretty good these days, despite my age- enjoy, folks) and/or the pat down. Knock yourselves out. I have to go to the doctor every few years, and experience far more invasive stuff. To me, the worst part about flying is being crammed into the tiny seat. And yeah, I sympathize with those bossy flight attendants, because it has gotten progressively suckier for them, too.

[alfredo]

112. I just don't like flying anymore, TSA is just one part of it.

The airlines are not the friendly skies of the days when I logged 50,000 miles in a short stretch. The seats are smaller, the hidden costs maddening, and the customer is always wrong attitude makes me less likely to ever fly again. I'm amazed they haven't installed pay toilets.

[U4ikLefty]

115. And I, for one, welcome our cavity-checking overlords.

:eyes:

[Nye Bevan]

119. Stockholm Syndrome (nt)

[Initech]

121. I've never had a problem either.