Hitting the bottom

[Uben]

It's common belief that drug addicts have to hit the "bottom" before they can start a comeback. And in my experiences, this is pretty much true. MAybe that's what the American political situation is going to have to do before we can start to really fix the things that ail us. I don't think we are far from bottom right now. Corporations given citizen status, right-wingers infighting, left-wingers infighting, huge fiscal deficits, healthcare out of control, two unnecessary wars, and two political parties so far apart, there's no willingness by either side to compromise for the good of it's citizens. Increasing homeless populations, record foreclosure rates, and a serious lack of decent jobs are accepted as a sign of the times.

HELLO! Is anybody in there?

A lot of us have already hit bottom. Lost jobs, lost homes, bankruptcy, but until the rich hit bottom, things won't change much.
Until they wake up and realize a prosperous population is to their advantage and start spreading the wealth, we are pretty much fucked. When there's no one left to buy their product or services, only then will they see the light. But by then, it will be too late. We are destined to fail and greed is the monster that will be responsible for our downfall. There are so many Bernie Madoffs out there, it is scary. People with no conscience, no regard for their fellow man, and the will to do anything to increase wealth are our enemies. They want it all now!

What we lack is vision and visionaries. People who see what's coming and have the influence over others to get them motivated and willing to do what is necessary to set things back on the right track. It can't be done by one political party. Therein lies the problem. I don't know what it's going to take to once again unite this nation, but it's coming. The divide is about as bad as it can get right now, so the only direction it can go is positive. How long is that going to take? Can we sit around and bicker and point fingers for another twenty years before taking action? No, it won't take that long. Without real reform and vision now, we are only putting off the inevitable....failure.

The bottom sucks. It's as bad as it gets. We're not all there yet, but there will be no one left to toss us a rope when it comes because we will all be there together.....probably with shovels, in hand, still digging, hoping to reach China, so we can once again see the light of day.

[ShamelessHussy]

1. "until the rich hit bottom, things won't change much." no, when the middle class hit bottom

look out.

but i agree with the point that things wont change until we reach a crisis point.

though i hope we are both wrong.

[KillCapitalism]

2. We have a long way to go until we hit bottom.

If you want to see what our bottom will be like, just look at Zimbabwe.

[RandomThoughts]

3. A telling comment.

There are some people that believe totalitarianism is the best form of government, they really believe that. I do agree that there should be some management of economics to counter Oligarchy systems, but what has happened in race to the bottom is many in the US, want the same monarchy as Saudi Arabia, or the same restrictions as China.

I won't be part of those systems.

The argument against it is as soon as you use secrecy and deception, which is required if you oppress a population, you get the worst types at the top, those who lie the easiest, and those that like secrecy, and they corrupt even easier.

There is a higher ideal argument for totalitarianism, but it requires none of the people making that argument being in power. LOL, which is not how it works, since those people push for democracy and open information systems.


And I know people site the news making things up, and controlled information systems on the Internet, but such systems are temporary since they always end up destroying themselves by race to the bottom, and the ramifications of the worst being the criteria to lead in those systems.

:shrug:




As far as hitting the bottom, if you require a reason and for it to make sense, not some condition you are in, to convince you, then you will never hit bottom no matter how low your situation might be at.

It allows for the jump without the parachute also :)

Tom Petty - Free Falling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqT6En2O78


I like the idea of falling into the sky, depends on the perspective.


Tom Petty - I wont back down. (although without hate, not sure where that came from)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUTXb-ga1fo


Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Learning to Fly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowZLe95WDY

[NNN0LHI]

4. When people realize that politicians aren't the answer to their problems we will all be better off

Unions are the only weapon the working man has ever had to fight back against the wealthy.

That 'rugged individualism' scam that the right wing promotes and a lot of idiots fall for screws us every time.

Rugged individualism equate to sucking the supervisors ass and screwing over your fellow workers to get ahead.

Don

[Uben]

5. Unions have problems, too

I was a steelworker for about ten years. I have been a member of a good local and a bad local. The good one worked with management to keep the plant profitable while the other did just the opposite. They spent funds on protecting workers who should have been fired years ago, spent every dime they collected by staying off the clock and on union time, and even stole goods from the union itself! I know because the local union president and vice-president worked under my supervision. Of course, that plant closed and they are all out of a job now.

Unions are necessary to counter corporate greed, but they too need to be checked. My biggest problem with unions is the national reps. They are out there living high on the hog on workers dues but are not producing much in the way of benefits, but that's a whole other thread, so I'll stop at that.

[NNN0LHI]

6. The employees are the union

If you had a fucked up local you must have had some fucked up employees where you worked.

I would like to read the details about some of those instances where you claim a fellow employee should have been fired. I would like to see if those employees just wouldn't suck the bosses ass like some of the other employees did where you worked and were penalized for noncompliance.

I worked with some suck asses who always felt someone who didn't suck as much ass as they did should be fired. I couldn't figure out how these guys could go home and look their wives and kids in the face after sucking the supervisors ass all day long. It was almost like they enjoyed sucking the supervisors ass or something?

Don

[Uben]

8. I've been on both sides...

If you have worked in a union envioronment and don't know someone who needs to be fired, you are either lying or so damned naive it doesn't matter. Every plant has fucked up employees, at least every one I have worked in. It's hard to get fired when you work in a strong union, so you really have to be a royal fuck-up to get fired. And, I have fired a few, even some I really didn't want to, but it was necessary. (in this case it was a machine operator who came to work drunk. I caught him before he clocked in and sent him home so I wouldn't have to fire him. He showed up the next day drunk as a skunk, totally incapable of running a manual engine lathe. If he had gotten hurt or killed, it would have been my fault for letting him slide. I really liked the guy. he was a good worker, usually, but let his drinking ruin his life. His choice, not mine).

Supervisors have a different responsibility than other employees. It's their job to see that the job gets done as fast and efficiently as they can. You don't have to be a suck-ass (I hate them, too) to be liked by a supervisor, just do your job. I see slackers as being worse than suck-asses. They want something for nothing, getting as much as possible for doing as little as possible. If I have to look over your shoulder, I will find a way to fire you. IT'S MY DAMNED JOB!

[NNN0LHI]

9. I knew you were salary after your first post. It was obvious

Odd that you neglected to mention that little detail before?

Don

[Uben]

10. Excuse me......

..... the title of my reponse was "I've been on both sides". Maybe a bit ambiguous.

I was an hourly worker for eight years (gear cutting apprenticeship) and a supervisor for seven. It's what I worked towards since being hired at every company I worked for. More responsibility usually means more money, which is what I was there for. I'm retired now, have been for ten years. I'm not necessarily ragging on unions, they were responsible for me making a good wage and having good benefits. I was just pointing out there are good and bad locals, the bad being the administration by the union leaders, not the union workers.

It was my choice to work in a union shop. Better pay, better conditions, better benefits!

[NNN0LHI]

11. I've worked in union and non-union shops and the percentage of problem workers was the same at both

Only difference was the problem workers who always got away with fucking off were always related to someone in management at the non-union shops.

Take that guy you fired for coming in to work drunk for instance. Say that man had been your son in-law who was supporting your daughter and a couple of your grand kids with that job. Would you have handled that situation the exact same way?

Or would you have maybe felt it was in the best interest of your family and yourself to get that man the help he obviously needed if he had been related to you in that way?

Don

[Uben]

12. I wouldn't put myself in that situation.....

...son in law working for me. Although, I would love to have my son in law for an employee. He is a great worker, smart and ambitious.

Know what ya mean about the non-union shops and relatives. Been there.

To answer your question about that guy I had to fire, I would probably have handled it pretty much the same. If a son in law came to work drunk under my supervision and had had prior warning, he would be fired. It's company policy. I would not have jeopardized my job for his indiscretions. Then, I would ask him to get help and help him get by until he found employment again. That's what family does.

I guarantee you, no one at the plant felt worse about having to fire the guy than me. He was a good worker most of the time, and I considered him a friend. He was the only one I had to fire that I really hated to.

[stillwaiting]

7. The wealthy elite in this country don't need a strong middle class in this country any more.

They are truly globally focused now, and they are in the process of CREATING wealth for others in other countries. They can (and just might) severely reduce the standard of living even more in this country without risking their wealth if there are emerging markets that are growing with citizens whose wealth is expanding. And there are more people in these countries.

They just don't need the U.S. to be as strong as we were. Clearly.