This "Fracking" for natural Gas is a joke. And the "Halliburton Loophole" is worse....

[KansasVoter]

60 Minutes had a story about it tonight. Read this description of the Halliburton Loophole....

"In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the Halliburton Loophole."

So many people's drinking water is getting polluted by natural gas drilling.

Why is this not getting fixed asap? And Obama voted for it in 2005????

[WCGreen]

1. No shit....

These fuckers would put their grandparents on the ice flow if there was a buck on it for them...

[polichick]

2. Same reason Cheney isn't being prosecuted. nt

[Bozita]

3. Here's a related article from today's paper: "Energy exploration means big bucks for state parks"

Nice spin, eh?

See, it's a good thing.

:sarcasm:


POSTED: NOV. 14, 2010

Energy exploration means big bucks for state parks
BY TINA LAM
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


Intense interest by gas and oil companies in northern Michigan's shale formations may or may not turn into a boom, but it definitely means a huge windfall for state parks.

The state Natural Resources Trust Fund, which helps state and local governments buy land for parks, got a whopping $113-million infusion from an auction in May of oil and gas leases on state land. It will get several million dollars more from a second auction at the end of October.

That's probably enough to put the fund at its $500-million legal cap; after that, the money goes into the State Parks Endowment Fund, which pays for capital improvements and operations at the state's 98 parks.

The two auctions together brought in $188 million, nearly as much in a single year as the combined total revenue from all such auctions dating to 1929. The Natural Resources Trust Fund has funded the purchase of thousands of acres of parks by state and local governments. Through complex formulas, some money also goes to the Game and Fish Trust Fund for wildlife habitat and conservation officers.

Once the fund hits its legal cap later this year or early next year, future oil and gas revenues will go to the State Parks Endowment Fund. The parks haven't gotten general fund money since 2004 and rely on about $11 million annually in entrance and camping fees. A program that started Oct. 1 for citizens to buy a $10 park passport with their car license renewals is expected to bring in another $30 million or more per year.

more...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101114/NEWS05/11140535/Energy-exploration-means-big-bucks-for-state-parks&template=fullarticle

[Hannah Bell]

19. I don't want those SOB's in state parks. sure, there will be lots of fish & wildlife when the

water's unfit to drink.

no amount of money can make up for it.

[Bobbieo]

4. The Navajo people have been fighting the same problem with their drinking water

being polluted by the abandoned uranium mines.

[KansasVoter]

5. Wow, what a shame! This country could do better!

[ipaint]

6. Gasland

The gas industry is turning the country into a toxic waste site.

http://gaslandthemovie.com/
Click on drilling areas. They are everywhere.

[malaise]

7. So what happens to the farmlands

when they've poisoned the water?

[ipaint]

16. Everything that drinks the contaminated water or toxic waste pit water dies.

Gas companies are trucking water in for people who have contaminated wells, if that doesn't happen people have to either truck it in themselves or leave because they have no well water.

They are poisoning the aquifers all over the country and are planning on drilling near aquifers that supply major cities.
It's horrifying and irreversible.

[jonnyblitz]

21. great flick. I highly recommend it nt

[doc03]

8. That worries me, they are starting to drill wells around here

and gas has showed up in someones water well already. Of course the drilling company claims it's not their fault they claim the water well is only 60 feet deep and the gas is 2 miles deep, they are trying to blame it on old coal mines. The thing of it is if it gets in the water table eventually it will end up in the Ohio river and who knows the problems it will cause since that is the source of water for millions of people..

[bbinacan]

11. If the well is 60 feet

it is most likely the coal companies.

[doc03]

12. They showed a water well burning on 60 minutes and it was

caused from a gas well. When someone has a well and no problems for years and all of sudden when they drill a gas well nearby your water catches on fire it looks a little suspicious I would say.

[bbinacan]

13. Most likely methane gas from

coal mining ops.

[XOKCowboy]

15. Hence the term "fracturing"

When you fracture the rock layers then it's no surprise the trapped coal mine gases could get into the water supply. They weren't there before.

We're dealing with Big Oil here. That guy in the blue shirt painted a rosy picture but couldn't explain the dead cattle or the town that died when it's water supply was ruined. Gasland is coming out in DVD in December. I recommend that you get a copy and watch it.

[bbinacan]

18. Gasland=Gasbag to me.

I work in the Marcellus Shale paving the way for natural gas pipelines. I've dealt with thousands of property owners and have not heard one case of water contamination. Same story when I was in the Barnett Shale. All water problems I've run into are a result of long-wall mining which is done very shallow compared to fracing in the Marcellus.

Give me a film crew and an editing room and I could make Mother Teresa seem evil.

[girl gone mad]

30. Texas residents disagree with your industry propaganda.

Water pollution has been a hot topic in the Barnett Shale gas field, where more than 17,000 gas wells have been drilled. Most of the wells are completed using hydraulic fracturing, a process that uses millions of gallons of water, sand and chemicals to create cracks in tight rock formations and release natural gas. The water used in hydraulic fracturing winds up contaminated with drilling chemicals and salt from the rock formation, and each well continues to produce millions of gallons of water that is contaminated with salt and hydrocarbons.

The Railroad Commission and the drilling industry have maintained that there are no cases of water pollution linked to hydraulic fracturing. As we reported in December, though, residents and local officials say there's evidence of water pollution from several sources, including leaks at well sites and problems with the disposal wells used to get rid of all the wastewater.


Read more: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/barnett_shale/2010/06/more-problems-in-dish-test-shows-polluted-water-.html#more#ixzz15Je6YuCZ

Also see video of the contamination: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KqFsR4HQpk

[XOKCowboy]

32. Good for you

Hey take your check from the oil companies to the bank and smile all the way. Keep believing what your employer tells you. Big Oil has always had our best interests at heart, right?

[bbinacan]

38. I'm just passing along

what I've experienced first hand.

[texastoast]

40. How about I take you to 30,000+ acres of West Texas land?

With 3000 wells, and I let you and your family drink the water. It killed my friends' cows.

[tabasco]

41. hahahahahahaha.

You're funny.

[jmowreader]

9. Since I've never frac'd I don't know, but...

why do they need to use chemicals in the hydraulic fluid at all? It's mostly water and sand anyway.

[doc03]

10. That's Dick Cheney's secret n/t

[Skink]

14. Having just fractured my ankle my whole equilirium is effected.

so two miles underground probably doesn't make much difference.

[applegrove]

17. They claim the fracturing chemicals are used at 7000 feet down while all aquafirs

and water sources are less than 1000 feet underground..... so how do the chemicals get to 7000 feet down? Don't they have to pass the water table?

Totally creepy.

[bbinacan]

20. Frac water is

99.5% water plus sand plus .05% chemicals. About 75% is pumped out and treated/recycled. The remaining water is burned off when they flare the well.

[ipaint]

24. Faulty cement well casings

How deep do natural gas wells go?
The average well is up to 8,000 feet deep. The depth of drinking water aquifers is about 1,000 feet. The problems typically stem from poor cement well casings that leak natural gas as well as fracking fluid into water wells.

http://gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking/

[glitch]

29. They are proven pathological liars. Period. nt

[makokun]

44. The aquifers are zonally isolated

via the steel casing. That casing is placed in the hole, and cemented in place. The casing provides an isolated conduit to the target depth.

[makokun]

22. I usually don't post here - mainly just read others comments...but

I can shed some light on this b/c I actually used to do this for a living - since the Halliburton/EPA thing that's going on isn't very familiar to the public. (Except for CSI Las Vegas, etc)

There are actually a number of companies that "frac" gas wells, and each of them have disclosed the ingredients in the "treating fluid". The truth is that OSHA has always required that each company do this b/c transporting these chemicals over the road requires that each container be placarded, and requires MSDS sheets (Material Safety Data Sheets). So ,by law, there are no unknown ingredients.

This nonsensical pissing match b/w Halliburton & EPA is over the amounts of each already known chemical. Whether they use 0.5 gallons of chemical per 1000 gallons of water or 1.0 gallons per 1000. The differences are pretty arbitrary with regards to concerns about the water table. Halliburton routinely claims it has "special formulations" for marketing, so that they appear better than the smaller companies that are pretty much doing the same thing. The differences are negligible, and the disclosure issue really has little merit.

This pissing match with EPA is a side show. There is more heat than light on this topic. The risks of contamination of anything is minuscule.

I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone might have on the topic.

[bbinacan]

26. Hear hear!

At last. A comment that is not a knee-jerk reaction.

[Mimosa]

34. Welcome, Makokun

Please join in more often. :)

[XOKCowboy]

35. Nice little speech. Got any facts or links?

Or should we just trust you?

[makokun]

39. Here is a list of companies that have disclosed or are disclosing

the chemicals involved with fracturing.

Excerpt from a blog: ( http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/e-p-a-subpoenas-halliburton-on-fracking/)

"The companies that have already complied with the information request or pledged their full cooperation are BJ Services, Complete Production Services, Key Energy Services, Patterson-UTI, RPC, Inc., Schlumberger, Superior Well Services and Weatherford."

Halliburton does not have any special ingredients that these other companies do not. All these companies compete to provide the same services. In order for Halliburton to have a fluid formulation that its competitors could not use, a patent would be required. And the patent would illustrate what the formulation was, so it wouldn't be a secret.

Shale fracing (for the most part) requires large volumes of fluid. Due to the large volumes involved cost controls require the fluid to have as few chemicals as possible (b/c chemicals cost $$$). Shales are primarily frac'd using a type of fluid system called "slickwater". The primary chemical additive in slickwater is a kind of polymer friction reducer that causes the the fluid to flow in a laminar (as opposed to turbulent) flow regime at high rates (ie 4200gpm/100bpm).

In the shale plays the fluid systems don't have a lot of complexity. In some of the sandstone or carbonate formations which were the traditional reservoirs of the past, more complex fluid systems are used. These are sometimes fractured with what are called linear gels, or also with what are called crosslinked gels. The gel itself is derived from the guar bean, and the crosslinking chemistry for the most part is provided by borate ions that entagle with strands of guar polymer chains, thereby increasing the fluid's viscosity.

I did misspeak earlier on the placarding requirements. Those requirements are from Dept. of Transportation, not OSHA.

[Vincardog]

36. Would you please provide a complete list of those disclosed the ingredients in the "treating fluid"?

I want to see how many of them are acceptable in drinking watter.

[makokun]

43. sure thing

however, its not accurate to suggest that these chemicals are being dumped into drinking water. It's simply not the case. Flowback water from shale fracs is disposed by strictly regulated means.

This is list can also be found at: http://www.hydraulicfracturing.com/FAQs/Pages/information.aspx

Acid - Hydrochloric acid or muriatic acid
(Swimming pool chemical and cleaner)

Antibacterial agent - Glutaraldehyde
(Sterilizer for medical and dental equipment)

Breaker Ammonium persulfate
(Used in hair coloring, as a disinfectant, and in the manufacture of common household plastics)

Corrosion inhibitor n,n-dimethyl formamide
(Prevents the corrosion of the pipe Used in pharmaceuticals, acrylic fibers and plastics)

Crosslinker Borate salts
(Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Used in laundry detergents, hand soaps and cosmetics)

Friction reducer
(Petroleum distillate “Slicks” the water to minimize friction Used in cosmetics including hair, make-up, nail and skin products)

Gel - Guar gum or hydroxyethyl cellulose
(Thickens the water in order to suspend the sand Thickener used in cosmetics, baked goods, ice cream, toothpaste, sauces and salad dressings)

Iron control - Citric acid
(Prevents precipitation of metal oxides Food additive; food and beverages; lemon juice ~7% citric acid )

Clay stabilizer - Potassium chloride
(Creates a brine carrier fluid Used in low-sodium table salt substitute, medicines and IV fluids )

pH adjusting agent - Sodium or potassium carbonate
(Maintains the effectiveness of other components, such as crosslinkers Used in laundry detergents, soap, water softener and dishwasher detergents )

Scale inhibitor - Ethylene glycol
(Prevents scale deposits in the pipe Used in household cleansers, de-icer, paints and caulk)

Surfactant - Isopropanol
(Used to increase the viscosity of the fracture fluid Used in glass cleaner, multi-surface cleansers, antiperspirant, deodorants and hair color)

[Vincardog]

47. Are you seriously trying to suggest that fracking is not poisoning wells? Who pays you to think that

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. The TV show CSI had an episode about fracking on Thursday. The scenario was that

a whole town was poisoned and developed cancer from the water.

In the end, nothing could be done against the gas company for its practice.

[glinda]

25. Get your fracking map here. They want to kill the east coast apparently.

[Strelnikov_]

45. And the groundwater supply in all those areas will be fracked for the duration

200 years from now, fracked.

People living there had better hope they can get by on surface water. Trucks hauling in water following petrocollapse? Doubtful.

We are rendering large swaths of the country marginally habitable.

But, hey, there is profit to be made in the present day.

Remember the first first law of Republicans . . oops . . Psychlo, profit must be protected at all costs!!!!!

[TheWebHead]

27. pick your poison

I prefer nat gas and fracking over coal ash, and politically some rapid adoption of alternative energy would kill the economy because of the wide cost curve - an economy killing explosion in energy prices that would put Democrats in the political wilderness. It's interesting how CBS followed the 'CSI' attack on natural gas with '60 Minutes' 3 days later.

[bbinacan]

28. Me too! n/t

[annabanana]

31. Poisoning a few million people is no biggie...

Profits, people. Profits!

[Mimosa]

33. Water from tap in my condo complex sometimes smells like farts, tastes nasty

This is in N. Buckhead, ATL GA. The complex was built in the early 1950s. Gas company refitted pipes in area 2 years ago.

The tap water here sometimes has a methane like nasty smell and taste. It's not like the sulphurous water of the Low Country.

Can natural gas from heating/cooking lines somehow mingle with water lines?


(BTW< using a Brita filter makes the water palatable.)

[goforit]

37. scary shit alright!! This is something to protest about

[Ilsa]

42. We should ship that water in to all Halliburton offices for consumption. nt

[texastoast]

46. We could do some nice packaging