How do you feel about the scans or pat downs when flying?

[leftyladyfrommo]

Just curious.

I don't travel much but I sure won't fly anywhere unless its an emergency. I'm not going to do that.

Drudge (I know, I know - but I read that site once in a while just to see what's going on over on the other side) has a poll on this right now. 96% say they will make other arrangements before they will go thru the scans or intrusive pat downs.

[HopeHoops]

1. Time to buy Amtrak stock.

Fuck that noise. I won't do it just out of principle. It isn't that I don't like being felt up or anything (:evilgrin:), but it is just not appropriate.

BE AFRAID AMURKA! BE AFRAID!

[alanquatermass]

45. Amen, Hoops! I have already forgotten about the "dire compelling reasons"...

-- that have made these measures necessary, so until the U.S. gets attacked again -- which I doubt will happen -- 9/11 was a tragedy, no question, but a SINGULAR one -- I am going to be one pissed-off man filing through airport security.

[hlthe2b]

2. I have major issues with it...

because I do not believe there is evidence that they either are effective, yet there is increasing evidence that the measures can be readily abused. There is virtually no recourse for passengers who are abused. I find that incompatible with a modern democracy.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. And they don't even know if the x-rays are dangerous.

I think its horrible on so many levels.

[pitohui]

30. they DO know that ionizing radiation is dangerous

they'd known this since the 1930s

who told you "they didn't even know this?" every health physicist and medical worker knows this

any TSA worker who doesn't know this shouldn't be involved with administering ionizing radiation to human bodies

[WhiteTara]

3. I won't be doing much flying in my future

maybe to leave the country.

[Brickbat]

4. I think it's an invasive charade that does very little good.

[Skink]

6. I never got over the removing the shoes thing.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Shoes I don't care about.

Having my nether parts patted I care about. Appearing nude in front of personnel I care about. That is too much.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. Not caring about shoes helped get us to this level.

Too many people went along without complaint to the partial disrobing at the checkpoint without enough people demanding evidence that it was an effective way to screen.

Taking off items of clothing with metal parts made sense. Taking off wool jackets with buttons? Doubtful.

Limiting footwear to thin soles made sense. Walking barefoot or in stocking feet? Doubtful.

Yet we went along with it in the interest of security because most people want to think that when someone says with authority that we should do something, we must do it.

[ixion]

8. I have problems with the TSA in general, and most certainly with

pat downs, etc.

It is kabuki theater that serves no other purpose than to treat free citizens like criminals.

[avaistheone1]

9. It's offensive and humiliating as well as a potential cancer threat.

The kicker is the full body scans are ineffective.

Time to get on the phone and let our Congress critters know how we feel.

I am sick of all these lobbyists making a killing out of drumming up fear. More bloody disaster capitalism.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[DCKit]

10. It only works if you assume (actual) terrorists are too stupid to check or ship a bomb...

in the cargo hold of any passenger plane.

Kabuki theater and yet another method of getting U.S. used to living under fascism.

[seabeyond]

11. i am done flying nt

[Dyler Turden]

12. I just flew for the first time in years a couple of weeks ago and was disappointed.

No one gave my nethers a squeeze. :)

Actually, it went pretty smoothly. I was pulled for my bag of toiletries in my carry-on but quickly returned to my line. I'm wondering if it was due to flying business class instead of coach.

[pitohui]

33. no i've had my toiletries pulled in both economy AND first/business

i think the only extra screwing (i mean screening) you get as a result of flying business is that sometimes you are quizzed a lot more deeply (by customs, not TSA) about how much cash you're carrying

otherwise i've seen no diff in security measures between the two, keep in mind, some of the 911 guys flew first class, they aren't going to assume guys in first class have too much to live for to bring down a plane but nor do they wanna piss off their best customers by giving more attention to first class than to coach

so they heckle everybody...

[Harry Monroe]

13. If I'm groped or felt up more than twice, I'm demanding that the TSA official buy me dinner!!

[durkermaker]

14. when the choice is universal strip search & grope vs 'profiling'

it's time to consider profiling

millions of midwestern grandmothers have had their shoes checked for bombs

was this done because there was an actual risk of one of them having a bomb in their shoe?

before we move to universal strip search and grope of every 10 year old girl and her grandmother, it's time to reconsider profiling

[gratuitous]

15. Fat old men, our time has come! It's up to us

Start going to the airport dressed in nothing more than shower shoes and a thong. We'll end this nonsense tomorrow!

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. I was fed up with flying LONG before this.

There is nothing about the whole process of air travel that shows the customers any respect at all...it is just a series of broken processes, made worse since 911. My wife and I do whatever we can to avoid the headache and cost of air travel! The scan/pat down thing could be the last straw...but the whole silliness about liquids, gels, etc - and the inconsistency airport to airport - nailed it for me.

[pitohui]

35. the liquid thing is what gets me

they say in 2012 they're gonna roll out a device, no doubt costing billions by the time it's installed in every airport, that can tell the diff between shampoo and a bomb

you know i have such a device that does the same thing and it's free...called common fucking sense

anybody who can't tell the diff between shampoo and a bomb NOW doesn't need to be working security in the first place, even in the men's room at a dog fight much less on a commercial airliner

[NRaleighLiberal]

47. when they stole a bottle of coffee syrup I was bringing to my grieving mom

(my dad had just passed away, and she was newly into assisted living in FL), I nearly lost it (but kept my snark at bay just enough) - that told me that there is no common sense in any of this - just lunatic reactivity to fear.

[fascisthunter]

17. how do I feel? I guess that's what TSA would like to know

I think this is another invasion of privacy.

[slackmaster]

18. They're bullshit.

Fake security.

Metal detectors and X-rays, plus a little appropriate application of "profiling", are effective.

[kentuck]

19. What's next?

Searching body cavities? Will the people rise up then? How much more will the people take until they tell this fucking government to get their hands and eyes off our bodies? Fuck them!

[Maru Kitteh]

20. I think I'm going to take the train or drive, that's what I think.

[gkhouston]

21. Overly intrusive and of dubious worth. We drive a LOT more than we used to.

Last Christmas, we drove to Grandma's (2-day trip, one way) for the holidays instead of flying. It wasn't bad at all. We're still playing musical chairs on which set of grandkids "Grandma" is visiting this year, so I think we won't be traveling, but if we do, it won't be by plane.

[LibDemAlways]

22. All you have to know is that Bush lackey

Michael Chertoff is now a lobbyist for Rapiscan, one of the companies that makes the invasive, genital-revealing, possibly cancer causing nude-o-scopes. Jerk-off no doubt travels by corporate jet so what the hell does he care.

It's all bullshit and the usual suspects are getting rich.

[KamaAina]

36. Rapiscan??!! Freudian Corporate Name O' The Year!

I assume the "Rapi-" part is supposed to mean "rapid", but, couple it with the "groin checks"... :scared:

[LibDemAlways]

39. Very appropriate, true. n/t

[Odin2005]

48. RAPISCAN? Calling Dr. Freud!!!

:puke:

[LibDemAlways]

52. Here's an example of what Chertoff is peddling - warning nudity

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1108041-ok-why-am-i-supposed-hate-nude-o-scope-serious-question-5.html&usg=__LzHZOpFgZ1Eogm0aOU2wdw910Ec=&h=689&w=496&sz=115&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=52weWD3NSE-NtM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnude%2Bo%2Bscopes%2Bscanners%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1330%26bih%3D820%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=577&vpy=297&dur=7158&hovh=265&hovw=190&tx=99&ty=115&ei=4bHhTML2GYvWtQOotN3iCg&oei=4bHhTML2GYvWtQOotN3iCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0

[Ilsa]

23. I don't want either. I'd rather be wanded and interviewed. Seems to work in Israel. nt

[JohnnyLib2]

24. I'm reminded of group physicals for the draft in the 60s.

Probably millions of men paraded through that.

It was tolerated, with no real choice. I've long thought how bizarre it was that both 'pokers' and 'pokees' carried out their part without much (public) protest.

This TSA procedure may be a real test of society's tolerance for intrusive acts at this point in time.

[Poboy]

25. Fuck the TSA, "Homeland" Security, and the entire "Patriot Act".

This is conditioning people. You give in here, they will demand more. It is ALWAYS this way.

[Broken_Hero]

26. I dislike it greatly.

I all ready hated flying pre-9/11 and the further security/restrictions has made flying horrible. I'm from AK, and I had to fly a lot during my formative years, and if I had the chance to fly home or drive/ferry home, I'd drive/ferry the trip in a heart beat. I'm also a bigger man, and being smashed into a 17inch seat with others isn't that fun...I'd rather take my time, be comfortable and drive.

[stuntcat]

27. I've been through it 4 times in the last few weeks

We went to Scotland 10 days then I flew to San Fran for 4 days (a high-carbon Autumn, but I'll make up for it by not having Christmas :)) and all my experiences in security went pretty smooth. I've had some very hard times in security before too.. was singled out for questioning, was touched a little too much.

The worst thing about it lately is how long it takes.

I kinda agree with everyone who says it's not making us much safer.

[krabigirl]

28. Extremely invasive and basically security theater.

IMO, all being used to get us more accustomed to tyranny.

[pitohui]

29. as a frequent flyer i much prefer the patdowns

any health physicist can tell you that there is NO safe dose of ionizing radiation, there are some cancers caused every year just by living in denver -- the intelligent person therefore tries to reduce unneeded exposure

add in that a digital image is created of my nude body, any medical devices or implants, etc. included, and here is a potential violation of my sexual and medical privacy WAY beyond any patdown
\
to me the choice is obvious that a patdown is safer on every level than the new scanners, esp. since it has already been said that the scanners WON'T reveal explosive devices, contraband, etc. hidden deep in the vagina or anus -- in other words, they do exactly what a patdown does, only with far more expense and hazard

however the right of the few to make millions trumps the right of the many to health and safety so i fully expect "patdown" hysteria to continue to be promoted, in order to hard sell these stupid-ass scanners

people who have already given up and don't travel, i wish they would just stfu, because they seem to be almost 100% on the side of exposing me to more and more hazard and violation, it's really hard to understand their hysteria about patdowns as anything more than hysteria and frankly bullshit -- i've been patted down, and i've also been subject to stalking, sexual harassment, etc. and to equate the patdown to sexual assault, rape, etc. is an insult to every victim of sexual assault, i'm tired of hearing it

[Xithras]

31. I used to fly 5-6 times a year.

Now I fly, on average, once a year. Flying used to be enjoyable. Now it's not. The TSA security rigamarole is only one part of that, but it's certainly a big part.

I realized several years ago that driving from the SF Bay Area to L.A. only takes about an hour longer than flying, when you factor in parking, shuttles, early check-in requirements, TSA screenings, flight delays, travel time, and the wait for your luggage at the end. The last time I flew it, the trip took me 4 hours and 30 minutes. The last time I drove it, the trip took me 5 hours and 15 minutes. There was a 45 minute difference, but I didn't have to deal with any TSA lackey suspecting me of being a terrorist, I could go to the bathroom at ANY TIME I wanted, the seat was more comfortable, and the food was MUCH better (and cheaper).

I used to regularly fly up to Portland to visit my family and friends in Oregon too. I haven't done that in years, and now just drive instead. That's a 1200+ mile round trip but, again, at least I don't have to endure modern airports and airliners.

[LibDemAlways]

34. I live in So. Cal but my daughter is planning to attend college in

Oregon next year. No way am I going to allow her to be subjected to x-rays or groping. Looks like we'll be making some road trips - and letting the airlines know why.

[Waiting For Everyman]

32. I will absolutely NOT ever fly again.

I don't trust the airlines' maintenance either, or any other processes involved with it. I flew a lot prior to 1974 but the industry went downhill fast after that. The last time I flew was in 1989, to meet in-laws in Europe. (My husband's dead now though and I have no independent connection with them.)

I don't have to fly, and I will not. Not ever again, not for any reason. There's not enough I like about it to make me want to, and no reason strong enough to make me have to.

I feel bad for those who have no choice about it. It's totally unacceptable today.

[pitohui]

38. well i guess you showed them, for every pax who flies delta loses $27

actually i don't know how much delta loses per everyone who flies since the re-organization but i do know that at the end of the day nobody makes money flying people around, they make money on the side stuff -- delta has its american express thing, southwest had their fuel hedge gambling, most airlines just blatantly don't make money except for CEOs and other employeest and just reorganize from time to time when they can't pay their bills

despite the fact that no one will admit to either flying or making money by selling air tickets, the planes are full to capacity on every
flight i take, so somebody's lying somewhere

i know at delta, nobody cares if you don't fly, it frees up a seat for a standby (or a non rev) when you don't

i don't know how you can protest by boycotting a business when the business in question is HELPED when you don't use their services

[walldude]

37. Sucks... but I have to do it...

I'll opt for the scan if they can actually get the things working.. :rofl: my last two flights they were broken. Why we turned airline security, if you can call it that, over to a private company is beyond me.

[GSLevel9]

41. I have no problem with it...

if anyone DOES have a problem...



drive.

[MineralMan]

42. Shrug...

No big deal to me. More seats available if all those people don't fly.

[Posteritatis]

43. I think if airline security's more stringent than El Al then it's doing something wrong.

I decided to swear off flying in '08, after I got the third degree in an airport for wearing boots in January during a storm.

[SoCalDem]

44. Just one more reason I will never fly again, unless it's a dire emergency

While I fully understand why security is an issue, I also believe that a terrorist is more likely to sabotage baggage these days (as evidenced by the recent "tests" they have been running).

While they have the TSA v passengers going on in the terminals, the "real-deal" may be going on undetected in the belly of the plane.

The airlines will eventually price themselves out of the market, piss off any passengers they have left, and planes will still be vulnerable.

The terrorists have the "luxury" of not having to be successful every time, and they come from a part of the world that marks time in thousands of years...not business quarters. They are patient, and they hold grudges for millenia.

[TorchTheWitch]

46. a revolting invasion of privacy

that doesn't even work for security purposes.

[Odin2005]

49. It's disgusting,a pervert's dream come true.

[CBGLuthier]

50. I feel that every single person should insist on the slowest process possible.

Choke it until they realize it doesn't work.

Everyone who flies and is asked to be violated should insist on a private room.

[LibDemAlways]

51. I personally think the victim should insist that the groping be

public so those still in line can see what they're in for. All the better if they aren't wearing any underwear.

I've read a few comments to the effect that when groped on the genitals people plan to start moaning a la Meg Ryan in Sleepless in Seattle. It's imperative to embarrass the crap out of TSA at every opportunity.

[auntsue]

53. I thought of this too, if people acted like it turned them on

The embarassment would shift to the TSA and they'd rethink. I also thing some level of profiling is OK - not necessarily racial but BEHAVIORAL. It is possible.