This immigration forum is amazing

[nadinbrzezinski]

and I wish I knew it was up the hill, literally from where I live.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Such a complicated issue.

My heart aches for the Dream Act kids. There is one here who is very active on the national level. She was detained a few days ago. Don't know what will happen to her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And those people are the ones that

will go far if they are given a chance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. She's a most impressive young woman

I pray she can achieve her dreams.

[pinboy3niner]

3. Did you catch this comment by O'Donnell? ...

"It cannot be more ironic that we're having this conversation in a spot that used to be Mexico."

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Absolutely

and the old mission is on the other hill from where I sit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I like him more and more all the time

:hi:

[pinboy3niner]

13. He also pointed out...

...that jurisdictions that are considering draconian anti-imigrant measures "sound a little bit like Arizona on steroids."

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Escondido here in San Diego County

I am betting a fast track to the State Supreme Court.

Yep, they are that bad.

[tabatha]

7. I liked the comment about the non-government types

don't understand how many government people it would take to return undocumented workers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. And 30K is far from enough if that was the goal

we are talking of a couple million people.

[dkf]

8. Yet is this fair to the half of the world under the poverty line who would like to come here?

Should we tell everyone who would like to be here to come break our laws?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Chances are they wont...

global migratory rates are about 3%... they have not changed in decades.

Most of the people who move are doing such do to war. I don't think, but perhaps my geography is not good enough. that we share a border with countries at war...

Now to Mexico, you want that to stop? Simple, reform NAFTA, that is most of the problem for Mexico, NAFTA.

Don't worry, most of the unwashed masses ain't coming here... and a fair number are going to Europe.

By the way if these people were whites I suspect most folks who have issues would have less of an issue these days. Not 100 years ago, but now yes. It is a fear of miscegenation. Look that word up, because a lot of these fears are about that.

[ProudDad]

12. And end the phony "war on drugs(tm)"

the MAJOR cause of ANY real trouble at the border...

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That goes without saying

though that war is as close to a real war as you can get.

Reporters down there call reports from places like Ciudad Juarez, reports from the front lines. Alas it has no front lines and it is also in the US, though at a lower intensity level.

[dkf]

16. I bet that isn't true for Asians...

Just think if we opened our doors wide open how many Chinese and Indians would love to come here. But they have to come in planes and that makes it more difficult to get here.

China has 200 million migrant workers within their own borders. Just think if they were given a green light to break our laws and some convenient bit of transportation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. First here is a hint

there ARE illegal Chinese in the country. There is a large market for people transported in cargo containers. No, don't expect most Americans to know this... since it is hardly published

http://www.alipac.us/article3257.html

Here they are hard to find...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/23/us/23smuggle.html

Second what part of migratory rate has remained constant at about 3% over decades you are having problems comprehending?

You are afraid, aren't you?

Here is the deal, the COUNTRY is changing, and we are just going over the latest wave, that's all. It will pass.

[dkf]

20. No I'm more upset over the injustice that has been perpetrated on Asians in this country

From the days of the Chinese railroad workers. The quotas were only remedied in 1965.

Which other race has been so discriminated against in terms of access to immigration with such laws as the Asian exclusion and Chinese exclusion acts. Which populace of American Citizens has been interned in concentration camps?

But even with unfair policies, I support a country's right to systematically decide who they want to allow in to the country. My only contact with a person here illegally was a person of my own race. Yet I know several people who are trying to bring relatives in from the Philippines. It takes decades to do it legally. It is not right that some decide they can do what they want because they are willing to break the law.

[mmonk]

21. Here's the problem.

Many kids the Dream Act would help have lived here since they were too young to remember. They grew up, attended school, made good grades, and know no other place to live or way of life. All the friends they have known live here. So send them away to a country they are unfamiliar with and ill equipped to survive in? Why, spite?

[dkf]

22. Not spite...to discourage further lawbreaking.

There is no disincentive to break the law otherwise.

Ronald Reagan's amnesty program didn't stop further illegal immigration. Instead it created an assumption that people here illegally will get amnesty.

Please tell me how the dream act discourages illegal immigration because I don't see it.

And as far as injustice, I would consider this the fault of the parents who break these laws. Where is the condemnation of their behavior?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. And you are wrong.

Most of the illegals these days came from the hinterlands in Mexico. Some hired by large AMERICAN corporations IN MEXICO, and they took those jobs because of NAFTA. It was that or starve. Now you are probably NOT aware of the efforts the MEXICAN government is making to discourage people from leaving and hiring out to AMERICAN companies. These efforts have been so-effective on the corporate side that this has gone underground.

You want to discourage this? Punishing these companies for human trafficking would be a good place to start, just saying.

As to how long it takes legally...I know. My dad applied for a green card in 1973 under the polish quota. It took eleven years. And it took another ten for me to apply for citizenship, thank a certain governor in california, and another two for the process to end.

But I dare say you really don't know the full story here, most Americans don't. But one of the companies behind the latest crop is Tyson Foods if you truly need names.

Oh and this is human trafficking pure and simple and you are afraid of the victims...yes what do you think was one of our jobs at times...take care of illegals and debrief them. You have no idea, oh and the Feds know...but during the whole of the Bush years they dropped enforcement to comical levels. You should like Obama then, enforcement is the highest in decades. Try to connect a few dots please.

[mmonk]

24. Spite is taking it out on these kids that have lived here through

no fault of their own and played by the rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Second her recommendation of Zinn's People's History

[lunamagica]

18. Lawrence O'Donnell is brilliant. I'm so happy he is on our side

The forum made some great, logical, factual, rational points. The problem is, that the war against the undocumented is not really about those factors. It's about the irrational fear of having brown people speaking a foreign language taking over.

I wish someone would have asked that immigration cop guy if he were in a desperate situation where he was unable to feed his family, would he let them starve just to never commit the horrific crime of crossing an imaginary line to find work.

[lunamagica]

19. Delete. Double post