New "(Enhanced Pat Downs) require screeners to touch passnger's genitals"

[GiordanoBruno]

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2010-10-29-tsa-pat-downs_N.htm

"...the searches require screeners to touch passengers' breasts and genitals. And that's prompting some fliers and the American Civil Liberties Union to question the policy's intrusiveness and effectiveness."


http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-28/travel/airline.security.pat.down_1_pat-down-tsa-statement-random-screening?_s=PM:TRAVEL

"According to Fitzpatrick, a female screener ran her hands around her breasts, over her stomach, buttocks and her inner thighs, and briefly touched her crotch."


The policy is now in effect for anyone over the age of 12. What kind of man lets government thugs fondle his 13-year-old daughter's genitals?

[Ken Burch]

1. This kind of man:

...any questions?

(Oh...sorry...I thought you said "what kind of man lets government thugs fondle OTHER PEOPLE'S 13-year-old daughter's genitals?")

[grasswire]

2. perverts, all

Gad. Those are creepy pics.

[GiordanoBruno]

3. This is not a partisan issue

You need to include Obama and Janet Napolitano in your collage if we're going to be honest.

[seabeyond]

4. +1. nt

[Individualist]

8. +1

[Ken Burch]

14. You're saying Janet Napolitano's a man?

:wtf:

[GiordanoBruno]

26. touche...

For the record I do not believe Janet Napolitano is a man.

[Ken Burch]

47. Good.

And I truly hope that belief ISN'T the one that got you burned at the stake.

[ProudDad]

44. Traitorous piece of shit, yes...

probably not a man though...

[Ken Burch]

48. er...PROBABLY not a man?

:eyes:

Is there a REASON you want to provoke a flame war over Janet Napolitano's gender?

[ProudDad]

49. I have no actual evidence either way...

I just loath her on principle -- the principle being that she deserted this state and left us to the tender mercies of the most egregious collection of racists and Nazis since Selma, AL and Nuremberg...

And she knew it would happen...

And now she "heads up" the 2nd most egregiously lame dept of the govt -- Fatherland (Ubber Alles) Security!

Fuck 'er and the horse she rode in on...

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrDelawho]

21. Yup.

[gateley]

27. Good point - agree. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Correct.

Leaving them out when they have held the reigns for 2 years is absurdly partisan and false.

[ProudDad]

43. You forgot this one...

It's happening on "his watch"!




Don't you stick that up my ...

[Submariner]

5. In December 2000, a corrupt and very partisan neocon sector

of the SCOTUS appointed a punk who went AWOL and deserted his national guard unit as POTUS, a court martial offense, instead of a Vietnam veteran. That incompetent dipshit was asleep on watch and did not pay attention to his intelligence briefings in the summer of 2001.

Thus we got 911, followed by this TSA bullshit.

So, "What kind of man lets government thugs fondle his 13-year-old daughter's genitals?"

A man who voted for Bush....that's who.

[pnwmom]

6. I suspect that the men are more worried about govt. "thugs"

touching their genitals -- particularly same-sex "thugs."

[GiordanoBruno]

7. I also question what kind of

weak, degenerate and sycophantic man would allow their OWN body to be fondled in order to create the illusion of security.

But that's another issue.

[pnwmom]

9. It does increase security. It's more difficult to hide

explosives in body cavities and less can be hidden there. Anything that makes it more difficult for terrorists reduces the likelihood of terrorists succeeding.

This is the same principal that leads us to put locks and burglar alarms on houses. Yes, the most determined burglars can circumvent them. But safety measures do reduce the number of break-ins.

[notesdev]

18. the safest place in the world is a prison

I for one would like the option of conducting my life outside of a prison atmosphere... if you want that there are places you can get it, but leave me out.

[gmoney]

65. I don't think so...

Maybe I watch too many movies, but it seems prison in the US is about the most dangerous place in the world. I don't blame criminals who are cornered for taking their own lives rather than going to prison.

[GiordanoBruno]

19. The goal of terror

is to make people live in fear and force the government to become oppressive.

The installation of full body "naked" scanners and the implementation of "genital fondling" proves that the terrorists are succeeding.

Furthermore, you are absolutely wrong on the facts. These scanners DO NOT detect explosives in body cavities, they even have trouble looking through pleats in clothes. The GAO says they wouldn't have even stopped the "Underwear Bomber".

http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/gao-raises-questions-about-effectiveness-full-body-scanners

http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20101116-31209.html


Lastly, no matter how many times you offer up yourself and your daughter for "strip searching" and "genital fondling" you will never be 100% safe.

Where do you draw the line? Genital fondling at subway stations, genital fondling when renting trucks, genital fondling before you enter a mall, cavity searches, droit de seigneur?

Again I ask, what kind of sick person has no problem with the federal government fondling the genitals of their 13-year-old daughter?

[DainBramaged]

23. what kind of sick person has no problem with the federal government fondling the genitals

of their 13-year-old daughter?






His supporters tackle and stomp women regularly.

[gateley]

32. When you put it that way, I can kind of agree with this. But I think I read, when

they were first talking about this, that this would not have detected the material that the Underpants Bomber had, for example -- am I correct in thinking that? But your point about explosives in body cavities is a good one.

[GiordanoBruno]

35. Hi Gateley

Here are the facts:

The scanners would not have stopped the Underpants Bomber, they do not detect explosives in body cavities and they even have trouble seeing through pleats sometimes.

http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/gao-raises-question...

http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20101116-31209.html

[pnwmom]

37. But a pat-down might have detected this, right? n/t

[GiordanoBruno]

40. A genital pat down, may or may not have

detected the "Underpants Bomber". But it surely would not have detected a bomb in a body cavity.

Again, no matter how many times you are strip searched or allow your genitals to be fondled, you aren't safe.

If you are really serious about safety you would demand everyone fly naked after a full body-cavity search and have luggage and cargo carried on a separate flight. Airplanes would have to be flawlessly piloted by computer programs that were completely immune to hacking.

Even then, I can conceive of implanted explosives in false teeth, nasal passages, chest cavities, big bellies, etc.

[Blasphemer]

59. Exactly

A determined terrorist (domestic or otherwise) will find a way around any security measures just as determined drug traffickers do every day. At the end of the day, it's not these type of screenings that will prevent criminal activity. However, they do allow the government to put on a show about protecting people who can't see the nitty gritty type of work they do for law enforcement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Not necessarily since it was shaped in the form

of a penis... to be very graphic about it...

You are being told this so you accept it, and feel safer. But the GAO disagrees, and so so a few other places with a higher threat profile.

Consider this... why have the Israelis looked at this, rejected it, and I am sure in private had a good laugh?

Also WHO is selling this crap? Chertoff. This is the highest definition of CORRUPTION.

Oh and it goes without saying, 22 men with box cutters won.

[gateley]

42. Thanks -- Now I'm infuriated all over again!

:7:

I wonder if members of Congress have to submit to this security, too.

I read where Boehner said he was going to continue to take public air transportation and forego the private plane when he becomes Speaker (although I'd previously read that he's often ferried about in private jets). Wonder if he'll get a pass?

And welcome to DU, GiordanoBruno! :hi:

[alstephenson]

41. Why don't they use the wands that detect explosives?

They are used in other countries and they are much less expensive than the naked body scan machines - and more effective. If explosives are detected, THEN you should be subjected to further scrutiny. Sorry, but to me it's all about the profits of the manufacturers of the machines, not safety or security.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. And K-9 teams

:-)

[LibDemAlways]

60. Well so far they aren't conducting body cavity searches, but you

apparently would have no problem with it. I think many many people would beg to differ.

Submitting to a sexual assault in any form should not be a prerequisite to flying on an airplane. The Israelis have top notch airport security. We give them millions in foreign aid. Perhaps they could return the favor by teaching us how to make our airports safe without sexually assaulting our citizens.

[frylock]

11. i suspect that men like myself are more concerned with our civil liberties..

but don't let that get in the way of you painting everyone as homophobes to rationalize the fact that you're scared shitless of the boogeyman.

[T Wolf]

10. How about THIS as a reaction - STRIP DOWN while waiting in line for security. Down to as little as

the temperature will allow.

You're just trying to help out the brave defenders of our airways, don'tcha know.

[gateley]

36. Did you see the protestors in Germany? They stripped down to their underwear

(which I was thinking may have prevented them from being arrested - good thinking!).

If I had the body I had lo, those many years ago, I'd do what you suggest. Wonder what they'd do.

[pipi_k]

51. Ironically....

You would probably be arrested for "indecent exposure".


This is a fucked up society we live in...

[gateley]

62. That was my first thought when I saw the picture. I don't know if they were

arrested in Germany or not.

[kestrel91316]

12. Like I said before, they can pat me down all they want, so long as

it's done by a very good looking man, lol.

[racaulk]

15. LOL! You perv!

(I was thinking the same thing.)

:P

[Pab Sungenis]

20. I want dinner and a movie

first.

[guitar man]

22. LOL

so I'm not the only one. :P

If we must go down this road, I say we adopt an "adults only, pick your screener " policy.

Yeah, I'll take her, right over there, she can pat me down :D

[Pab Sungenis]

13. The policy is not to actually find anything.

The policy is to intimidate, scare, and force passengers to submit to the other screening method.

[racaulk]

16. +1

I think that's it exactly.

[MrDelawho]

25. At the heart of this is....

PROFIT. The Homeland Security racket is just the latest incarnation of the famous MIC. (Those machines will be needed in hundreds of airports. They are very expensive.)Welcome to the USA!

[gateley]

38. I'm afraid to ask who the manufacturer is -- do you know? nt

[MrDelawho]

39. I do not, but it may as well be......

Halliburton.

[gateley]

45. And, wonder where they're being manufactured? Sigh.

And welcome to DU, MrDelawho! :hi:

(I initially read your username as MrDelaware and I was going to insist you change it because that belongs to my guy, Joe!)

[GiordanoBruno]

46. Michael Chertoff among others

Bush's homeland security goon has personal and financial ties with the "Naked" Scanner's manufacturer.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/01/airport-scanner-scam

Chief among them is former DHS secretary Michael Chertoff, who now heads the Chertoff Group, which represents one of the leading manufacturers of whole-body-imaging machines, Rapiscan Systems. For days after the attack, Chertoff made the rounds on the media promoting the scanners, calling the bombing attempt "a very vivid lesson in the value of that machinery"—all without disclosing his relationship to Rapiscan...

American Science & Engineering, Inc. AS&E has retained the K Street firm Wexler & Walker to lobby for "federal deployment of security technology by DHS and DOD." Individual lobbyists on this account include former TSA deputy administration Tom Blank, who also worked under House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

Chad Wolf—former assistant administrator for policy at TSA, and a former aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Tex., a top Senate appropriator and the ranking Republican on the transportation committee—is also lobbying on AS&E’s behalf.

Smiths Detection, another screening manufacturer, employs top transportation lobbying firm Van Scoyoc Associates, including Kevin Patrick Kelly, a former top staffer to Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., who sits on the Homeland Security Appropriations subcommittee. Smiths also retains former congresswoman Helen Delich Bentley, R-Md.

Former Sen. Al D’Amato, R-N.Y., represents L3 Systems, about which Bloomberg wrote today: "L-3 has ‘developed a more sophisticated system that could prevent smuggling of almost anything on the body,’ said Howard Rubel, an analyst at Jefferies & Co., who has a ‘hold’ rating on the stock."

[TexasObserver]

61. That's it, entirely. Submit to the machine or get treated like shit.

[gateley]

24. Talk about 'enhanced interrogation'!

:grr:

[Initech]

28. I'm betting this will last a week once the lawsuits start flying.

[Rex]

29. We have turned into what we feared most.

Fucking goons treating citizens like the enemy is not going to win any upcoming elections! I mean, if that is ALL politicians care about anymore - listen up! I'm so fucking disgusted with my country, seems we left the jackboots in charge of 'security'...why is that? Mr. President?

So I guess full cavity searches are next on the list of 'freedoms'? This is the experiment to see how far citizens will go and act like cattle (though I don't think people fondle bull balls, but I could be wrong).

[Bragi]

30. This is insane

Really insane. TSA is obviously out of control.

I look forward to the news conference where the TSA head resigns, and the Congressional hearings should be good, too.

[Speck Tater]

31. I stopped flying years ago. I take a sleeper car on the Amtrak now.

IMHO: This kind of thing is going to eventually kill the airline industry.

[ProudDad]

50. I wish there was railroad service out here in the west.

Even in the Seattle to San Diego corridor the "service" is horrible...

I tried to go to Texas by train a year and a half ago.

I got to the station at midnight, 1/2 hour before my train's "scheduled" departure at 12:30am...

(The Amtrack train east only departs 3 times a week at 12:30AM)

I was told while purchasing my ticket that the train was now due 2am, would wait a 1/2 hour then leave at 2:30am

At about 1am, the agent came out to announce that the train would not arrive until about 4am...

I called my friend with the gypsy cab and rode back home...

I never DID get to Texas 'cause 2 days later, on my way east in my vehicle, they closed New Mexico at the Arizona/New Mexico border.

But that's a story for another day...

[Speck Tater]

53. I'm out west. My most frequent trip is Eugene OR to Los Angeles. nt.

[ProudDad]

54. Yeah, there's a little corridor from Seatle to L.A.

that's almost do-able. I took the Starlighter from Emeryville to L.A. once for fun...

Then I had to get a shuttle from Union Station to LAX in order to rent a freakin' car!!!

Rail travel just ain't what it used to be!

[Speck Tater]

56. That's true.

I had family to pick me up at the LA terminal.
But I used to ride the El Capitan from L.A. to Chicago and make a transfer to get to Detroit. It was a luxurious trip, but that was back in the 1960's.

[ProudDad]

64. Yeah, I used to ride the Seaboard Air-Lines Rails

From D.C. to Georgia/Florida in the 60s...

Real silver service and damask, great food, reliable service, conviviality in the club car...

We could have that again for MUCH less than the cost of the insane occupation of Afghanistan...

In fact, we could have multi-modal high speed rail corridors with slower speed feeders in less than a decade...

But that would be way too intelligent...

[Kat45]

52. And republican governors are refusing stimulus funds for high speed railroads

Not even giving us the choice.

[gateley]

63. What's the security like on Amtrak?

And I'm not so sure about this killing the airline industry. I think people will get used to it like we get used to being without other civil liberties they've taken away.

This country has become frightening.

[ProudDad]

66. I used to love to fly...

I even got a pilot's license 'cause I loved it so much...

Now, I WON'T fly unless it's to get out of this country... And next time, I think I'll just take a bus to Mexico and fly out from there. Fuck TSA!

I just won't GO anywhere I can't go by car or train now... (and they've fucked up rail passenger service, on purpose, so much that that's just not an option either)...

But you are entirely correct, this Police State laughingly called a "country" is continuing down the road to terminal frightening (since John Adams and the Alien and Sedition Acts!)...

That's what Empires do...

[gateley]

67. Same with me! My dad used to bring us to the airport when we were little

and we could go out on the observation deck and watch the planes come and go. It gave me a love of flying and I ended up getting my pilot's license too!

The 'joy of flying' has diminished over the years with the seats getting smaller, more restrictions, etc. It got so flying to a destination was just a way to get there and all the pleasure in it was gone.

I'd like to look into Amtrak. We need to really vamp up our rail system and we only need to look to Europe or Japan to see how to do it right.

[ProudDad]

69. I was in Europe for 3 months back in the mid-90s...

I was able to hit 11 countries and didn't come near an automobile except for 3 or 4 side trips with people we met...

Madrid, Montreux, Munich, Berlin, Amsterdam, London, Paris, San Sebastian (Spain), Toledo, Segovia, Sevilla, Ronda, Algeciras, Tangiers (YUCH!), Rabat (ok!), Valencia, Burgos and many others -- ALL by train (except the ferry to Morocco)...

A walk or Metro ride to the train station. Train to the next city center, walk or metro/tube to the hotel...

Civilized travel that in many cases didn't take much longer door to door (or was QUICKER) than flying...

And from what I read, they have even more fast train corridors that would make it even easier today...

We got fucked: try to find "Taken for a Ride" movie -- they seem to have taken it down...hmmm...

"Taken For A Ride exposes the conspiracy conducted by General Motors to undermine the tram car system all over America, then replaced these with their polluting buses and lobbied for the highways commission to ensure taxes from cars went solely to building more roads and in doing so ruined communities and destroyed the fabric of more than just the societies directly affected."

Ah, look QUICK here! http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch.php?&ref=158

[gateley]

71. Just started watching that, but will have to finish later -- looks great -- thanks!

I remember years ago a documentary on television (pre-cable, even) showing how the streetcar lines in LA had been bought up by GM, Goodyear, the oil companies, essentially forcing people to buy their products.

Recently a big deal was made about Obama signing some rail deal in Florida, was it? At the same time, China was announcing their plans to, or completion of, a mass transit system. Our itty-bitty one cost a LOT of money, only went from point A to point B (if i recall within one state) and is going to take several years to build. China's, by comparison, covers most or a lot of the entire country, is more efficient and costs less, and will be completed in about a minute. :7

I don't understand why we don't just learn from those who have done it successfully as your story shows. We always seem to think we can do it better and we end up lagging far behind -- hybrid and electric cars, solar power, etc.

I'm looking forward to watching the entire piece -- thanks again!

[snooper2]

33. Sweet, now I get to wear a cod-piece whenever I fly

Come on baby...wanna grope this :rofl:

[LittleBlue]

55. Fuck this. I'm done flying

I'll use my car or just not take long vacations. Stick that in your economic pipe and smoke it, Obama admin.

[ProudDad]

68. Follow the Money - the manufacturers

The following companies manufacture commercially available backscatter X-ray devices that are used in airports and security scanning applications:

1. American Science and Engineering<4> (device name: Smartcheck)
2. Rapiscan Systems (a subsidiary of OSI Systems Inc.)<5> (device name: Secure 1000)
3. Tek84 (formerly Spectrum San Diego Inc.)<6> (device name: AIT84 Body Scanner & Castscope)

The fat fucks who make the big money at AS&E
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=111923&p=irol-govmanage

These next two don't have an "executives" page -- don't want us to know who they are.
Rapiscan (prounounced: Rape-eee-scan) - - They got millions from the "stimulus" package to supply these fucking strip search machines that we neither needed nor want!

Tek84 (think Tek-9?) -- Inventor of the technology "worked" with Clinton's FDA to certify this shit...hmmm)


Pornography and Molestation is Happening in Public View Every Day in an Airport Near You
http://socyberty.com/crime/pornography-and-molestation-is-happening-in-public-view-every-day-in-an-airport-near-you/

[ProudDad]

70. Here's the genesis of the problem!

"Taken For A Ride exposes the conspiracy conducted by General Motors to undermine the tram car system all over America, then replaced these with their polluting buses and lobbied for the highways commission to ensure taxes from cars went solely to building more roads and in doing so ruined communities and destroyed the fabric of more than just the societies directly affected."

http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch.php?&ref=158