Thanks to the TSA and Airline industries - I have absolutely no desire to travel by air anymore

[LynneSin]

And it's a crying shame.

I use to subscribe to budget travel and dream about taking 3 weeks off to fly to Italy, rent a car and drive around the country. I had lots of ideas for all the travel I would want to take but honestly, I have no intentions of using an airline anytime soon.

First and foremost is just the hassle. I have to be at the airport over 2 hours early just to ensure I have enough time to get thru the half dozen lines I'll have to go thru in order to make it on the plane. Another hour to get off the plan, find my luggage and transportation. It's just a real time waster.

If I do survive that then I have to go thru security. Now I get to decide if I want to be scanned by carcinogenic xrays or if I prefer to be sexually assaulted. Those are my choices now to get thru security. Geez I'm a 40-something person born here in the USA with no criminal record whatsoever. Don't you think you can give me a pass to go thru the normal process? Did I mention those xrays can even show if I'm having my monthly curse or not (it will show if you're wearing a sanitary napkin). Sick ain't it.

And even once I go thru those I'm stuck on a plan that has a seat made for the size of a 12 year old child and well I'm a grown adult that has a few extra pounds and really long legs. And even though I would try my best to get a flight that was in the front of regular class or the exit row - now I have to pay extra for the pleasure of just a few more inches for my legs. Now I'm crammed in like Sardine for the next couple of hours - total misery and who wants that? And knowing my luck with planes - I'll either have a screaming child sitting behind me or someone with severe body odor and a small bladder next to me.

And then I don't even get any decent food on the plane. I did a 7 hour flight to San Diego and all was offered was an over priced snackbox with a few small treats in it. And if you were in one of the last 5 rows - you were out of luck, they ran out (I was the next to last row to get the snackbox). It use to be that I would pack my own snacks and bring my own water for on the flights but instead I'm stuck buying the overprice processed crap they sell inside the terminal or the really overpriced undersized crap they sell on the plane. God forbid I sneak something horrible into that PBJ sandwich I want to pack in my travel bag.

If the Airline & Travel industry wants to survive they need to take a serious look at the horrors they are creating for the people wanting to travel. There is no reason for some of these security scanners and with forcing people to be patted down. Sure sure sure, someone can say "Well what about 9/11?". Good point but if you noticed that since 9/11 and the first round of security upgrades they have done, there have been no further use of planes as bombs here in this country. And seriously, you need to allow passengers to bring their own food & beverages. I said it 5+ years ago and I stand by it - that banning of outside food & beverages was less about that attack in London (which nothing was ever proven) and more about finding a way for the airlines to squeeze more money out of you.

It's sad because honestly, I've never been to Europe. I have been to Mexico a few times, made it to Costa Rica and really have no desire to go to the Caribean. So I guess my travels will be based on where I can travel either with my car or on train. It's a real shame because I am finally at a point in my life that I could so some decent traveling.

Come on Airline folks - you're not going broke because of gasoline costs - you're going broke because you're screwing over us passengers and we're just damn tired of it.

At least Canada is 6 hours away - I could drive there.

[prolesunited]

1. I haven't flown since 2006

and don't feel a bit deprived.

[LynneSin]

2. I think that's the last time I flew somewhere and it was Canada

although it may have been Tampa.

Not exactly sure.

[prolesunited]

6. I remember my trip

Maui! Who could forget that? I have a friend living there, so that's the only reason that happened. It was spectacular.

[seabeyond]

4. my last time was around there too. i flew often too. i dont feel deprived either. nt

[classof56]

8. That was the last time for me, too--flew to Colorado for my 50th high school reunion

Went well, no problems, smooth flights, but since then I've been looking for reasons not to take to the air. Thanks to TSA, I now have one! Don't intend to go anywhere that's not within driving distance in a reasonable amount of time. Not many places I care to go anymore, and like you, I don't feel a bit deprived!

[ixion]

3. I used to enjoy flying

but thanks to the TSA, I now loathe it, and will only fly in the case of an emergency.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I carry my food bars and sis packs sandwitches

For the little ones. After that fully agreed

[DearAbby]

7. They could offer Candlelight dinner and flowers..n/t

[LynneSin]

14. As silly as that sounds they could make some compromise to make it a bit better

Remember - I didn't single out just the TSA or the Airlines - they are both to blame.

Perhaps I'd be a bit willing to have my body groped if I wasn't going to be shoved in a undersized seat or if I could bring my own bottle water along on the flight (I use to bring 1.5l bottles on each flight and I would easily drink both of them).

Flights are just a miserable process that just aren't worth the effort anymore. At least I don't have to suffer thru such humiliation to ride a damn train or take my car.

[customerserviceguy]

32. You can bring an empty bottle

and fill it with water from a drinking fountain at the airport, that's what my lady does. Me, the less I drink, the less chance I have of having to wait in line at the back of the plane to pee.

[customerserviceguy]

33. I hear ya

When I took my first airplane flight as a child in 1969, it was glamorous. I still remember the slice of Cheddar cheese on the piece of apple pie that was for dessert. Those were the days...

If I hadn't moved to the East Coast three and a half years ago, and I didn't feel like seeing my friends and family twice a year in the Pacific Northwest, I'd ditch flying, too. My lady and I had a lovely auto trip throughout the Midwest last week, and the difference in affronts to our dignity was striking.

[katty]

9. me too, if i don't absolutely have to fly, i never do

[Daphne08]

10. I haven't flown since 2003 and unless there's a family

emergency, I'll continue to drive home (half a continent away).

That's how much I detest flying these days! :grr:

[TexasObserver]

11. I feel the same way.

I used to love to fly. Change flight plans all the time. Make impromptu business or personal trips when I felt like it. You know the flights, the crews, the routines between places like Houston, Dallas, and Austin. It was FUN to fly in America, after the smoking ended and before the butt searching began.

I last flew three years ago, and if I'm lucky, I'll never have to fly again. Each time it got worse. Having known real freedom for so long, I don't want to become used to this level of intrusion in ordinary American travel.

We fight wars allegedly for our freedoms. Keeping our freedoms is important enough that even if we occasionally lose an airplane to a terrorist, we're better off than killing the things that have made us great. Being constantly in fear of the most remote risks is unpatriotic and cowardly.

By allowing FEAR to be the only operative emotion, we have overwhelmed good sense and given up the freedoms that made us a free people.

[Monique1]

12. I've not flown since 2006 also

The last time I flew - I was padded down - they told me I had explosives - they took my cameras (the kind you buy from the store and the film is already in it) They put the cameras through a scanner - I received all cameras back except one. Pictures of the VA hospital in the state I visited. I felt so diminished - I felt I was being watched during my entire trip. I won't fly again unless of a death in my family.

[TexasObserver]

16. It's part of the Bush Legacy I had assumed would be ended.

No such luck.

Bush brought on the police state. It's more subtle than as seen in fiction, but it's there - everywhere. ATMs, traffic lights, security cameras, toll booths - all watching 24/7.

[madinmaryland]

13. Interestingly, I think I have flown more in the last year than I have in the last 15 years.

All business, though. Hell, we have driven to florida twice.

[bluestate10]

31. I love flying. Don't like losing my shoes, but I love flying. nt

[NNN0LHI]

15. You ever "driven around" in Italy before?

Its like driving in the Indy 500 through freaking mountains.

You are probably better off missing that trip. Damn good chance you wouldn't have lived three weeks.

Don

[LynneSin]

22. No but I survived drivign around Boston and that's fricking scary

I was passed by people driving on the side of the road

:scared:

[ProfessorGAC]

46. I've Driven There At Least 20 Different Trips

In big cities, like Milano, Torina, Roma, or Napoli, driving can be tough in spots. But, the highways and byways are just fine. It's barely different than driving here.

In the bigger cities, the problem is that people don't really pay attention to lane markers, so the road could be a one way road meant to have 4 lanes, but they'll stack up five or six wide at a red light. And, then everyone jets on green to cut back to have room at 4 wide again.

Other than that, i never found it to be bad.
GAC

[NNN0LHI]

47. Hi ProfessorGAC, good to see you back

I am only going by stories people have told me so I would say your view on this is probably more accurate than mine.

Had a good friend who went to Asti every year for a convention and he told me some horror stories while he was riding in a cab there. He said it just about gave him a heart attack every time.

Take care and see you later.

Don

[ProfessorGAC]

49. Worst City I've Driven In: Barcelona

Highly congested, many many roundabouts, and those people are IN A HURRY! The city doesn't take up that much space especially given how populated it is. Why everyone is in such a hurry to get where they could get in 10 minutes anyway, is beyond me.

That's the one city in Europe where i would not bother to rent a car again. Paris is no prize, and Roma requires concentration, but IMO, they're nothing compared to Barcelona.
GAC

[bikebloke]

48. I've hitchhiked Italy.

I been picked up by lorries, and rode high looking down on everyone else. And by cars, where we were flying low - oh shit!

[wryter2000]

17. I'm an Amtrak girl

It takes me 12 hours to get from Oakland to Las Vegas via train and Amtrak bus, but that's how I go.

The sad thing is I want to go to the East Coast next year with my brother and s-i-l to visit my sister. I can't spend the 5 days each way it takes to go by train. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I can't imagine giving up my freedom and dignity to endure the new procedures.

I wonder if flyer-ship will drop off so drastically the airlines will revolt. The government won't listen to wryter2000, but they might listen to the airline corporations.

[LynneSin]

18. IN the USA we're Innocent until proven guilty everywhere except airline security

There we are assumed guilty because we want to fly.

[ThomCat]

19. Innocent until proven guilty is a myth.

It only applies to people who are white and have money, and even then it only applies some of the time.

You are right about being assumed guilty because you want to fly. Buying a ticket supposedly now waives all rights. It's funny that they don't tell you this anywhere though. You only find out that those rights have been waived when the abuse starts and someone try to claim those rights. :(

[LynneSin]

21. Perhaps we should demand our Miranda rights be read when we buy an airline ticket

Instead of 'Terms of Service' popping up in which you agree too, your Mirand Rights would pop up on the screen right before you buy a ticket. If you want to buy it you have to agree to your Miranda rights first.

[reggie the dog]

50. i have long hair

so the fact that i grew up white and middle class did not matter, i was gulity and had to prove my innocence by proving that i had no weed on me, which ironically is one of the reasons i started to smoke weed.

[malaise]

20. I used to love flying

Now I have to prepare myself to allow strangers to be touching me all over - not worth it.

[Old Codger]

23. I haven't

Flown anywhere since 2001, I prefer driving anyway and not in any sort of a hurry and I can fly free anywhere Southwest flies....

[Raine]

24. I haven't flown since before 911

and I don't intend to. I would've liked to travel to Europe etc too but no way can I see putting myself thru the agony of getting there. I'm just not up to it physically, I'm not 20 years old anymore. If I can't get there but train, ship, bus or car I just won't be getting there at all. :-(

[Initech]

25. The airlines are gonna lose a lot of customers due to the pat downs.

They will end once that happens - thanks to Citizen's United, they get a voice. We don't.

[sally cat]

26. It's not the airlines, it's the TSA ie the government.

[FarLeftRage]

27. The last two times I flew, was to Italy...

Since I'm still unemployed with no money to travel on, I won't be flying anytime soon.

Trust me, you'll want someone else to do the driving for you in Italy...

[IDemo]

28. I've been on my own no-fly list since about '98

That includes the time I was offered free housing for a trip to Maui.

[MineralMan]

29. Hmm...

Let's see. Arrive 2 hours early. Another hour when you reach your destination. That's about right. Let's see...if I fly to Los Angeles from Minneapolis that makes it a total of 7 hours. If I drive there, it takes three long days.

Security screening. That's a PITA, for sure. I once spend half an hour waiting in line to get screened. But, I had a nice talk with someone who actually came from a town just a few minutes from my own home town. We knew some of the same people. The half hour went by really fast. It did take five minutes to go through the security line, though, and that's pretty awful. No slowdowns, though, since I'm always prepared for the security screening and never get any secondary screening. This new scanner may speed things up a little though. We'll see, but I do get to flash my junk at some TSA worker. I'm sure he or she will really enjoy that.

The food on the airplane is really bad, it's true, if they serve anything at all. Thank goodness for the many places I can buy a great deli sandwich before boarding my plane. While all those other people are waiting for their bad food, I'm eating a chicken aioli sandwich on ciabatta bread. Yum! They don't mind if you bring food from one of the nice restaurants in the secure area on the plane with you. Mind you, that sandwich cost $7.50, which is pretty steep, but...the coke on the plane is free, so that's good.

I really, really try to opt for an exit row or bulkhead seat when I fly. I book way ahead, so I can usually select one of those. I had to pay $30 for that privilege the last time I flew, but it was sure worth it for both me and my wife. Compared to the price of the flight, it was a minor extra expense. Still, If I can't get that seat, I can sit in a normal coach seat for four hours OK, even though I'm over 6' tall. A little cramped, but what the heck. It's only four hours.

I can't afford a trip to Europe these days, but I've been there before, along with the Caribbean, Brazil, Hawaii, and Australia. I'll just have to live through my memories and photos. BTW, the security in Europe was pretty intense the last time I went there. Armed soldiers in the airport with automatic weapons. Still, the food at the airport was outstanding, so I didn't mind so much.

We're off to California on Christmas day this year. We always fly on Christmas day. Everyone is always in a pretty good mood, the plane isn't crowded, and my parents, despite their age, will pick my wife and I up at the Santa Barbara airport. We discovered this year that it's no more expensive to fly there from MSP than to LAX, and the drive's a lot easier for my parents, who are 86 now. We're really looking forward to seeing them. When your parents are 86, you just never know when a trip will be the last time you ever see them. That, alone, is worth all the hassle, waiting, etc. I'd go through security bare-assed naked it that's what it took to spend a few days with them.

Sorry you're not going to fly any more. You'll miss some great times.

[riderinthestorm]

35. I think we're the skunks in the middle of the party. I agree with you.

I have to drive for business (horses, competitions etc.) 13,14, 17 hour drives with the horses multiple times/year are exhausting. Truly exhausting.

I revel in being able to get on a plane to go...virtually anywhere. No hassle is too great (since my work travel is ALL about the hassle). I always travel with just a carry-on bag so I never check in, or pay the fees. I book the best seats ahead of time to ensure I have leg-room. I love to people-watch in the airport so any time spent just watching everyone else is like going to the theatre for me. And my family is in Europe. So I have to fly. It's worth anything to see my daughter, my aunts, uncles, cousins etc. These full body scanners are more common in Europe anyway- I'm a bit more immune since I've encountered them more frequently.

Personally however, this whole brouhaha would be tons better if Obama, Napolitano, and the rest of the TSA goons all went first through the scanners with their families. Or got the pat-downs on camera. ALL OF THEM should have to do it. In public. On camera. I think people feel outraged because there's a sense that the PTB don't understand how intrusive the new procedures really are, and if they understood, they'd "know" why the public is so unhappy.

[MineralMan]

41. So it seems.

I often find myself in that position.

[WildEyedLiberal]

45. Full body scanners in EUROPE???

Shhhhh.... don't tell DU! It will ruin the entire "OMG POLICE STATE AMERICA" narrative!

[reggie the dog]

52. we have them in france

but they are only used at a select few airports and only for people flying to.... the USA.... i dont know about the rest of europe, but they cant grab your balls for no reason over here....

[lapislzi]

44. Points well taken.

I travel a lot, and I'm always well prepared. I KNOW it's going to be a pain in the ass; more so at some airports than others. I try to wear slip on shoes, no belt, simple clothing. The biggest hassle is having to pull out my laptop, and trying not to hold up the line at the other end while I gather my things.

I can totally dig why people don't like being groped. Hasn't happened to me yet. I would hope and assume that the groper isn't trying just to cop a feel and is likely as uncomfortable with the prospect as the gropee. I think I would know if the groper was trying to cop a feel, and I might be compelled to say something. I'll have to wait and see if that happens. Not crazy about walking through an x-ray machine, but if they want to have a titter about my tits...well, that's pretty damn sad, as I'm 50 years old. Is the radiation going to damage me? Shit, I hope not.

I had really expected this lunacy to have died down by now. It IS grossly inconvenient and expensive to have to purchase food and drink in the secure area. But...if I want to go to the places I want to go, then I'll put up with it.

I'm not arguing that much of this shit isn't arbitrary, paranoid, and just plain stupid. But...it is what it is.

I wonder what would happen if I showed up at the airport naked?

[reggie the dog]

53. i am 31, in good shape

and dont want to show my dick to just anyone.... usually i gotta get some action for it if my pants are dropping; if the gay guys and women see me naked i will probably get a few phone numbers.... but they got no right to see me naked like that, shit that takes out the whole smalltalk and seduction part before the clothes come off, if they want to see me naked and are not going to have sex with me then i think i should charge a fee.... a modeling fee or some shit;...

[reggie the dog]

51. 2 days drive

i did san jose-chicago in 2 days this summer, i made it from the utah/wyoming border to chicago on day 2, granted I drove 20 hours straight that day only stopping to top off the tank, buy a snack, roll a joint or piss..... on the one hand i could see the scenery and smoke my joint, on the other hand there is no bridge to france so i gotta fly to come back to the states (i know there are boats but they are double the cost of a plane ticket...)

[bluestate10]

30. Body scan and business class.

The hysteria about body scanning machines are just that, hysteria. I have no concern about going through body scans. If you want a comfortable seat either stay home on your sofa or fly airline business class. You want to go visiting Italy. Please understand that there is no free lunch.

[TheKentuckian]

38. What free lunch? You mean flights are free in exchange for electronic strip searches or

hands on groping?

The ticket price is what, a deposit until you perform?

[reggie the dog]

54. fly a non american airline

and you get 2 meals and a snack on trans atlantic flights

[mindwalker_i]

34. Rock on! Use the power of the consumer

to not support businesses that either do really bad things or are working with businesses that are doing really bad things. That will be the biggest cause for change, when all the airlines complain that they can't get any business because the TSA is fucking everyone over.

I kind of fell like people who complain about the RIAA but keep buying albums from those companies can just quit their complaining. If you don't like something, then don't support it. Yes, there will be tradeoffs.

[FarCenter]

36. Good -- the fewer tourists flying, the better

[woo me with science]

37. +1000 Great post.

We've come a long way, baby.

[Kablooie]

39. As for me, I kind of like the idea of getting a full body massage before getting on the plane.

[old mark]

40. I haveen't flown in over ten years, have no desire to subject myself to that

nonsense.
I would rather taka a train.

mark

[Greyhound]

42. Hear, hear! I used to love to fly so much I chose a career path that required me to fly

every week. Now it is such an intrusive, and incredibly stupid, ordeal that I demand a premium just for putting up with their shit.

All because we are afraid of bogeymen hiding in the shadows of our fevered imaginations.

[carolinayellowdog]

43. New Mexico by train is a wonderful trip

My last flight was in 2000, to California. The hassles of air travel annoyed me more and more over the years and after 9/11 I was a confirmed ex-flyer. But I had been to Europe several times in the 80s and Mexico several times in the 90s, and still have a yearning for exotic-feeling destinations. Spent a week in northern NM last year and will do so again next year. If you like the more arid mountainous parts of Spain and Mexico, and want to visit a culture and see architecture much older than those of East Coast US, New Mexico is a perfect place to visit. Easily reached by Amtrak too.