twenty two men with sharp objects won the war on Terror

[nadinbrzezinski]

and it is an amazing conclusion...

TWENTY TWO WELL EDUCATED men brought down the United States.

Land of free... you kidding me?

Land of the brave... sure.... look around.

This is the only conclusion I can reach. They won....

That is unless people FINALLY decide ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Yes freedom does mean risks... period!

[redirish28]

1. No not really. The Bush Administration dropped the ball that day.

He had all the info and just didn't care.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. What has happened since?

The objective of terror is to fundamentally change a society from within...

[JCMach1]

25. Exactly, how many trillions for the military war and how little to secure

the borders of our own country (air cargo, ports, scanners, etc.).

[leveymg]

15. I think the event shows problems more systemic and more serious than that.

There appears to be doctrine emerging that no Administration is ever held accountable for intelligence policy failures, no matter how devastating the effect and criminal the negligence. It's as if the U.S. Government is a Limited Liability Corporation in which the top officers and shareholders are never held personally responsible for failures.

If anything is going to bring down the United States, that is it. We've seen crimes of state morph into even greater crimes against humanity, as the BCCI banking fraud became a full-fledged looting of the S&Ls, and Iran-Contra and the struggle to grab oil-rich parts of the collapsed Soviet Union morphed into al-Qaeda, and 9/11 served as the justification for the illegal invasion of Iraq, the cost of deficit financing of which and criminalization of practices within the financial industry contributed to the Wall Street Meltdown, which became a Run on the Treasury by these same banksters, and so-on. Always the same figures at the middle of it, and seemingly they are Made Men, Untouchable Kingpins, because they once held high office or operated at the top of the intelligence community.

There has been a fundamental breakdown of Rule of Law in the United States.

[TexasObserver]

30. The FBI refused to follow up on hot leads. Bush refused to act on intel.

Condi Rice was asleep at the wheel.

Their CIA and Counter Terrorism Chief were warning them daily.

At a minimum, 9-11 and the extent of its damage happened because the Bush administration was grossly negligent at all levels.

[Poll_Blind]

2. Not the Visigoths, not the Vandals: Only Rome could destroy Rome. n/t

PB

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Well all empires come to an end

and since Franklin has been the vogue recently, he did correctly say that all republics live about 250 years...

We are close...

[Rage for Order]

5. Anyone who doesn't like it is free...

to choose another form of transportation.


Oops, wrong thread!

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Well with that logic

next will be, don't cross city borders, without your internal passport... what the hell do you have to fear?

:-)

Amazing, isn't it?

[Rage for Order]

7. I'm glad you can recognize the genius behind my logic

It's a complementary argument that goes well with "If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about."

Did you happen to see the inspiration for my first response? It's http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9572099">here. It'll be easy to find the one...or should i say, ones

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Some of us do get it

some of us don't

I was talking to BIL earlier... and I am hoping this is that moment... you have no shame sir? moment...

It has united the right and the left... and congress will act if nothing else because both sides are working together for the first time in ten years. That must be scary... I mean damn liberals and freepers feel equally threatened...

Even if some are willing to go along... to get along

Need to make sure the RFID is in the driver's licence. hope they make those city borders pretty seamless for most of us... and do not include any groping...

Some science fiction dystopias seems strangely too real these days...

[TheKentuckian]

8. Very hard to argue.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Well it's united people who usually scream at each other

so that might be a hopeful sign...

[TheKentuckian]

37. Sadly, the folks that both sides yell at are down like a clown.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. I am stunned, stunned that in more than nine years since 9/11...

We have escaped a hoard of angry, Wahabist terrorists from blowing up airplanes because they were not x-rayed and sexually assaulted before boarding a plane.

Why go the the trouble of putting explosives in printer cartridges if they could just use wearable explosives.

Thank heaven TSA will look up our butts with a microscope to save us from the egregious loss of our freedoms at the hands of Wahabist terrorists.

Not only is it a win for security, millions of Americans will be able to get the equivalent of a free colonoscopy. I mean, that is almost the same as national health care.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I wonder how many real doctors will be put out of bidness

by this.

I wonder... will they supply the solution too?

(Anybody who's had one will get the joke)

[Ozymanithrax]

29. The head of the TSA wants to make sure you are healthy... n/t

[BeFree]

34. heh

So, the next step is for the TSA to have doctors examine you?
I like that.... one stop visit... a free doctor exam and a security check all in one.
That's a solution to free health care?

Feeling bad? Get an airline ticket, first.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Uncomfortable truths and all that

[noise]

14. So we have had a good faith overreaction to 9/11?

The torture. The false terror alerts. Associating Iraq with 9/11. The secrecy. The fearmongering.

When is the patriotism of the police state crowd up for review?

Edited to add:

I read Naomi Wolf's book. Here are two alternative explanations:

1) The real goal is to turn the US into a closed society using the pretext of preventing terrorist attacks.

2) Profit. Naomi Klein wrote about this in her book The Shock Doctrine and the RS article on the high tech police state in China.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I've read Naomi Klein and

this is my observation...

1.- The intent is to turn the US into a closed society, but not for her reasons.

2.- The Empire is collapsing.

3.- This is an attempt to keep things together as that happens.

4.- A few people are making a bundle on this as well...

The USSR is the most recent continental empire to fall apart and some folks want to avoid that at all cost.

On the surface it does fit the Shock Doctrine, but I think it is actually more complex than just that... but that is just me.

:-)

Her explanation is also quite possible and it could be a combo if you know what I mean.

[noise]

19. How does that square with the OP?

The OP implies that the public agenda (Winning the War on Terror) is accurate and US officials hurt that effort by overreacting.

Is that any more credible than the notion of invading Iraq to bring democracy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. The goal of terror is to change

societies in fundamental ways.

When the obvious start of the fall started was AFTER we invaded Iraq.

And we have been over reacting insofar as civil liberties from word go. Remember, the USPA was on the shelf and ready to go.

[noise]

21. There is an important distinction between overreaction and exploitation

IMO the post 9/11 policies reek of exploitation. Calculated policies that only look like mistakes to people who assume the public agenda was the real agenda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. As I said there may be some to this

As the USPA was on the shelf


OK'C iirc they were ready to roll out.

That is why I give some credence to
L.iHOP

But the essential goal of terror is to change a society...the IRA did not succeed, these guys have...that is where you need to ask why, and IMHO goes well beyond disaster capitalism.

[noise]

23. The Bush administration

claimed they needed police state powers to prevent terrorist attacks. The media convinced enough of the public to believe this.

Is the public somewhat to blame for being susceptible to fearmongering, propaganda and authoritarianism? Sure.

IMO the main reason the society changed is because the Bush administration had ulterior agendas:

1)War profiteering.

2)Crony capitalism.

3)Move the country to the right.

4)Keep dissent in check when the corruption led to consequences.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Of course

And I'd say it is the end of empire?

[Bonobo]

16. Rec for accuracy and pithiness! nt

[timtom]

26. So, then. You buy into THAT conspiracy theory.

Is that what your instinct tells you?

There are other theories that are probably much more closely aligned with the truth.

But, you're right. SOMEBODY won.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. No, but look around

What IS the goal of terror?

Has the us been changed in fundamental ways?

You ask yourself that.

[timtom]

35. No. No. You're absolutely right.

As I said in my original comment, somebody has us right where they want us.

I swore to stop flying back when TSA and Patriot Acts and HOMELAND "Security" were implemented.

So, I agree with you. I just seriously question the "official story."

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. I go as far as lihop

Which does make sense...

And the backlash is on.

[Greyhound]

27. K&R for more of that "change". n/t

[ladjf]

28. With a little help from their friends. nt

[spanone]

32. we declared war when we should have sent the police

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. A mix of cops and spec ops, due to the region of the world,

And we had him boxed in at Tora Bora... But the ISI was allowed to take him out.