Passenger: “I didn’t expect her to touch my vagina through my pants” (NYT)

[somone]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/business/19security.html

Pat-Downs at Airports Prompt Complaints
By SUSAN STELLIN

In the three weeks since the Transportation Security Administration began more aggressive pat-downs of passengers at airport security checkpoints, traveler complaints have poured in.

Some offer graphic accounts of genital contact, others tell of agents gawking or making inappropriate comments, and many express a general sense of powerlessness and humiliation. In general passengers are saying they are surprised by the intimacy of a physical search usually reserved for police encounters.

“I didn’t really expect her to touch my vagina through my pants,” said Kaya McLaren, an elementary schoolteacher from Cle Elum, Wash., who was patted down at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport last Saturday because the body scanner detected a tissue and a hair band in her pocket.

The agency has so far responded to the complaints by calling for cooperation and patience from passengers, citing polls showing broad support for the full-body scanning machines.

Still, it remains to be seen whether travelers approve of the pat-downs, especially as millions more people experience them for the first time during the holiday travel season. “I would be very surprised if the average American would say this is O.K. after going through the kind of experience we’re hearing about,” said Jay Stanley, a senior policy analyst with the American Civil Liberties Union, which has received nearly 400 complaints from travelers...

[Rex]

1. We use to call this inappropriate touching. Guess it passes for

'security' now since they have no intention of catching OBL, just maybe they can grope the right person. :eyes: Sounds like some lazy shit to me.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. I am stunned that anyone is flying at all after this.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[LisaL]

7. What are you going to do if you need to be somewhere?

[Javaman]

64. teleconference.

drive, take the train, have someone skype it.

My wife and I spoke about all of this last night. We aren't flying anymore. Not that we fly much now anyway, but from this point on we drive or take the train.

We have also looked into taking a liner to Europe for a trip we are planning for the future.

And for people who "have to fly", then either you enjoy being groped or you stand up for your rights to have this ridiculous practice stopped.

The next lawsuit up to bat will be the employee with his employer. It will be an employee who refuses to go on a business trip because they don't want to be groped.

Sue the employer or the TSA?

[xultar]

109. Some people don't have choices. It is either go or lose your job.

[Javaman]

110. So get groped and lose your job?

that was my point in my post. Or didn't you read down that far?

[spanone]

145. that's great, unless you have to be in california tomorrow & you live in tennessee

[spooky3]

12. a lot of jobs require business travel -- you have no choice esp. if you have to go overseas.

[Newsjock]

16. I'm eagerly waiting for some employment law to be interpreted here

An employer cannot require an employee to be sexually assaulted as a condition of employment. I'm hoping that someone is going to collect a big fat payday after losing a job for refusing to fly on business.

[LisaL]

21. You might never get this job in a first place if you have to

fly for an interview and you refuse to fly.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

147. And when "sexual assault" DOES happen . . .

. . . it will be actionable. But what the TSA is doing ISN'T sexual assault. It's not even sexual abuse.

I despise this new policy, but we don't defeat it by being dishonest about it.

Sex crimes generally require some degree of specific criminal intent, and no matter how much it's loathed, I sincerely doubt any jury would ascribe an intent of sexual gratification or anything similar to a TSA operative sufficient to garner a conviction.

[dragonlady]

28. I predict more virtual meetings

The progressive radio station has carried ads for something called "Go to Meeting" that is supposed to let people carry on meetings in real time through their computers because they can all see each others' desktops. You might not get to have the expense-account meals and other perks that a business trip involves, but it beats the airport hassle.

[dixiegrrrrl]

86. Funny you should mention that.

WASHINGTON – The House of Representatives today passed H.R. 1722, the Telework Enhancement Act of 2010, to improve government efficiency by requiring agencies to establish telework policies.

In recent years, telework has increasingly been viewed as an important tool for ensuring continuity of essential government services in emergencies. John Berry, the Director of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM), estimated that during the snowstorm that crippled the Washington, DC area in the winter of 2010, telework reduced the cost of lost productivity for the Federal government from $100 million a day to $71 million. H.R. 1722 requires agencies with continuity of operations plans (COOP) to incorporate telework into those plans.


http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5142:telework-bill-passes-house&catid=3:press-releases&Itemid=49

[SoCalDem]

32. Yup.. my son is in Singapore for the 3rd time this year.. I am sad for him

because he's had a urostomy since he was 8 yrs old, and I know that this stuff has to be bothering him a LOT. :(

[grantcart]

41. Cliffordu on the other hand cashed in all of his extra mileage points and

is flying non stop specializing in small puddle stops that fly for a few minutes allowing him to jump out clear security, reenter and re board the flight up to a dozen times a day.

[Egnever]

128. This

[Kolesar]

91. Disney and the tourism industry ought to be screaming about this

or lobbying. This is not good for business. You can get groped even if you went through the xray machine.

[SammyWinstonJack]

94. Won't catch me flying EVER again! This is such BS! Hope and Change.

:rofl:

[grace0418]

121. Well, I have a client in LA. Most of the time email and phone is fine, but sometimes

we need a face-to-face meeting and I'm not taking a train or driving from Chicago. What costs a few hundred dollars and 8 hours of flying time would translate to thousands of dollars (meals, gas or train fare, lodging) and several days. No thanks.

I also love to travel, and I especially love to travel to places like Hawaii and Europe. A boat would take way too long. Vacation time is a limited commodity, even when you're your own boss.

[MorningGlow]

146. My mother is 85

She'll be 86 in March. I am grateful she is still active and has all her faculties, but I realize that, statistically, it's likely she won't be on this earth too much longer. My brother lives across the country, in California. Every summer for the past four years, she and I, and my young son, have visited them for about 10 days. Part of the reason is because she wants to see her son, her DIL, and her granddaughter as much as she can before she dies; part of the reason is she's trying to establish a tradition so he and I will remain close--and continue to visit one another--after she's gone.

There is no way I would NOT continue this tradition, even though I abhor what's going on with the TSA.

And no, we cannot take the train. We've looked into prices, and the length of the trip and the cost has ruled that out. Driving 3,000 miles is also out of the question. So what are people in our situation supposed to do?

[Brickbat]

3. Vulva. Not vagina.

Learn it, people!

[aikoaiko]

4. Rhymes with Mulva.

-- Jerry Seinfeld.

[progressoid]

36. ...

Delores.

[gmoney]

79. Gipple?

Hest??

[Enthusiast]

60. Worth another look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1g5iPdwTL4

[AnArmyVeteran]

112. Hilarious! Thanks.

[left coaster]

5. THANK YOU! I get so sick of the rampant misuse of the term 'vagina'.

I keep wondering what century this is..

[spooky3]

11. me too--how hard it is to learn two words??? Unbelievable how many people misuse the term.

[GSLevel9]

95. lol... nt

[kestrel91316]

13. I know. It's one of my pet peeves. The vagina is the hole. The vulva

is all the stuff you see between the legs.

[Habibi]

72. You guys would really hate The Vagina Monologues!

"Vagina" is misused shamelessly in them.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Most Americans don't understand the proper usage of "lose" vs. "loose"

You expect them to have a handle on anatomy? You should be thankful that, at least, they spelled "vagina" right.

[Hannah Bell]

24. yes, you're one of the few bright ones.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. I always thought I had maybe a decent working knowledge of the English language, at best

but I've seen some atrocious mistakes in some shocking places, particularly in recent years.

[Missy Vixen]

44. Is that the point?

How about the fact the woman in question was being inappropriately touched, against her will, in a public place?

I don't care if she calls it her glittery hoo-hah. It's her genitals. She should be able to board an airliner without enduring a search that's inappropriate and should be illegal.

:eyes:

[apocalypsehow]

54. +1. n/t.

[Brickbat]

61. OMG, I TOTALLY MISSED THAT PART !!!1!!1!!!!!111!!!!!

:eyes: backatcha, toots.

[Missy Vixen]

92. Wow. What a sophisticated counter-argument.

Better get the female in question on the phone. Let her know her choice of terminology is incorrect, therefore, you don't believe she has the right to feel outraged when a complete stranger touches areas of her body she considers private.

:eyes:

[Brickbat]

131. Why do you think I don't believe she has the right to feel outraged?

Seriously, why? I like to hold people to high standards and wish, in a general sense and not excluding or trampling on or denying or invalidating anyone else's feelings, that self-knowledge and correct terminology were things everyone worked for. Apparently that's a bad thing; duly noted.

And again, :eyes:

[pipi_k]

71. There is a point, I think...

If someone touches the vulva, that's more front and center, so to speak, than the vagina, which requires a whole lot more probing to touch.

It would be the same if someone were to be searched from the back...touch the lower buttocks...one level of invasive touching....but touch the perineum from the back, and now we're getting into some real serious territory.

Might not make a difference to some as far as the use of language goes, but it sure does make a difference to the person whose body parts are being groped.

[WinkyDink]

76. OFGS.

[pipi_k]

87. Indeed...

You know what's annoying?

When people throw out little one-liner jabs and don't bother to explain their positions.

Like one-word jabs are an intelligent contribution to discussion or something.


OK...whatever

[flyarm]

115. Anyone touches my Vulva,or Vagina they are getting punched in the face! eom

[dixiegrrrrl]

88. Verily.

[Maat]

96. +1

[WolverineDG]

103. +1000 for "glittery hoo-hah"

:rofl:

dg

[awoke_in_2003]

140. +1000. nt

[avaistheone1]

55. But

Oprah calls it a vajayjay.

[truebrit71]

66. Yet another reason why I despise that woman...

... :puke:

[StarsInHerHair]

149. then there's labia, not the ones on your face, the labia lower

down.....

[WolverineDG]

62. Well, I guess that makes it okay then

since the woman didn't identify the body part she was groped in correctly, it makes it okay for TSA to sexually assault her.

:eyes:

Vulva, vagina, whatever---that's still too damn private for anyone to be playing around with outside of a doctor's office or consensual sex.

dg

[Brickbat]

65. Oh my gosh, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING. WRONG WORD = GOVERNMENT INTRUSION IS OK.

Swear to Maude we've got some record long-distance jumpers here. :eyes:

[Pacifist Patriot]

82. Wish I could say I didn't see it coming.

:eyes: indeed!

[Brickbat]

132. Apparently expecting words to mean something is a crazy idea around here.

What the?

[WolverineDG]

102. When most people understand that "vagina" can be used to describe a woman's "lady parts"

getting hyper-technical over the victim's choice of words is a bit ridiculous.

dg

[Brickbat]

133. I object to sloppy language.

Fortunately, it's my job.

[TalkingDog]

100. Legally, yes.

If the agent was sued for touching the woman's "vagina" and no such touching occurred, there is legal grounds for dismissal of the suit.

Words have meaning and bureaucratically and legally the precision of words and their use underpin the foundation of our political and legal system.

If you think this is a bullshit argument, I suggest you study a number of recent Supreme Court decisions and tell me if you still think precision of language is unimportant.

[WolverineDG]

101. Funny, but the Penal Code doesn't require the victim to give the correct name

of the body part that was touched. (at least in my state) But I suppose if you were the judge, you would be ok tossing out sexual assault cases on just that point because it's all the victim's fault she didn't pay attention in anatomy class. :eyes:

But then, you'd wonder why all the uppity wimmins groups would be boycotting you & why you didn't get re-elected.

dg

[SaveAmerica]

126. You say vagina, I say your vulva

Rhymes with Regina, or is it with Mulva?
Vagina, your vulva,
your vulva, vagina,
can't it just be a taco?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

63. You got the point, didn't you?

The purpose of language is to convey information and ideas. Mission accomplished.

[TalkingDog]

111. unclear information is conveyed sloppily.

If the point was to tell me someone had touched her labia, no, I didn't get that impression.

If, however, she was complaining that she was searched beyond the constraints imposed on the TSA by an unannounced cavity search, then yes, she made her point.

[Brickbat]

134. If touching the vulva but not the vagina is allowed, then her annoyance is misplaced.

Her language is not conveying the correct information and ideas. Mission fail.

None of what I'm saying is a judgment on what happened. People seem to think that me pointing out the difference is me excusing the action as a whole. I am not.

[justiceischeap]

67. Who's to say the TSA agent didn't touch her vagina?

The agent may not have "entered" said holy land but the agent could have touched the outside of it.

[pipi_k]

74. There is no "outside"....

There's the vulva, which encompasses that whole outside area...then there's the entrance to the vagina.

The vagina itself is the inside. The birth canal. The only way it can be "touched" is by having something put inside of it.

So either the TSA agent put her fingers inside, or the person who used the term "vagina" to label the whole vulvar area needs an anatomy lesson.

[WinkyDink]

75. That pleased you, didn't it?

[Brickbat]

135. What, pointing it out?

It did indeed. I'm an editor.

Pointing out incorrect terminology does not mean I approve of what TSA's doing as a whole, however. People here seem to think it does. :shrug:

[Mimosa]

80. Um, if the TSA agent delved a bit further back and upwards...

she could have hit the vajayjay. ;)

[-..__...]

84. I hear they're great on gas milage...

and owners report that the engines will easily last 250k plus miles.

[Brickbat]

136. ROFLMAO.

:thumbsup:

[sammytko]

85. I was thinking the same thing - must have been some stretchy thin pants!

I read that this morning and thought - that lady does not know her body parts!

[Brickbat]

137. You must have approved of the whole thing, then!

;)

[TalkingDog]

98. Or Labia... n/t

[spin]

104. Magazine not clip!

magazine


clip


clip

[Brickbat]

138. My point exactly.

:thumbsup:

[grace0418]

122. I KNOW! I was thinking, DAMN, what exactly did the TSA agent DO when patting her down?

That's way WAY more than a pat.

[MissDeeds]

148. Amazing how few people know

the correct names for the female anatomy. Touching the vagina would require a very, very invasive pat down!

Thanks for enlightening the masses.


;-)

[flvegan]

6. bin Laden, et al? Yup, still laughing.

Stay afraid, America.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. That's the real reason he has bad kidneys.

[avaistheone1]

58. [phone]

We can't build the Homeland Insecurity Industrial Complex without the fear. So spin that fear! Be afraid, be very, very, afraid.

[flyarm]

116. No Shit! ..The CIA wasn't afraid of him when he worked for them and papa Bush! eom

[ZombieHorde]

123. Sigh...so true, so true. nt

[ZombieHorde]

124. Sigh...so true, so true. nt

[Contrary1]

8. "...citing polls showing broad support for the full-body scanning machines."

Where might we see for ourselves the results of these polls showing such support? And, since when do polls even matter when it comes to what the government decides to do?

:eyes:

[apocalypsehow]

9. And even if true, it's an appeal to popularity, a logical fallacy. Constitutional Rights don't get

submitted to majority votes, or popularity contests. :thumbsup:

[csziggy]

37. Yes, Constitional Rights DO get submitted to majority votes now in this country

Ask gays or women whose rights have been voted away about this. Our rights SHOULD NOT be subject to majority votes, but that has not stopped the current fashion for doing so.

[apocalypsehow]

53. No, they don't. Ask the Federal Courts that have recently struck down an entire plethora of

"majority vote" state questions & legislative actions from California to Oklahoma to Arizona to DADT, all of which abrogated minority rights (aka, Constitutional Rights).

You really need to spend more time catching up with current events. :thumbsup:

[csziggy]

108. What the courts do is different than what the citizens vote on and different from reality

Yes, the courts said some of the citizen passed crap was unconstitutional, but not all the legislation or state constitutional provisions have been overturned, especially those affecting women's freedom of choice and control over their bodies. Despite the fact that the Supreme Court has declared abortion constitutional, laws have been passed that make it defacto illegal or unobtainable in many states.

Although there is a challenge to the California anti-gay marriage amendment, gay marriage is still illegal in most places in this country. That issue is still up in the air and will be until it is fought through the courts, which could take years. I suspect it will be like the emancipation of the slaves and actually getting equal rights for blacks (which are still not reality for many) - full marriage rights and equal rights for same sex couples will take more battles to achieve.

Whatever the courts have done does not erase the fact that Constitutional Rights HAVE been voted on, not just recently and often not overturned quickly - look at the history of civil rights abuses in the South. It took nearly a century after the Civil War and after punitive laws were passed in most Southern states to get those laws overturned. Even then, it took the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment to get rid of most of them, and even now there is talk of reversing that progress.

[CreekDog]

39. Yeah, everyone sitting on their butts in front of the tube that actually answers for telemarketers..

they mostly like it when other people get felt up just fine.

:crazy:

[gmoney]

81. They polled Al Quaeda and Taliban members...

"Do you approve of intrusive and draconian security measures in the United States to render Americans into a state of trembling fear and disgust? Not to mention elimination of their personal privacy?"

"Yes, we win!"

[derby378]

10. If this keeps up...

...I predict air tourists will be carrying guns instead of cellphones to keep TSA screeners at bay. I hope it doesn't get to that.

[subterranean]

14. Question: Why do they need the full-body scanners AND aggressive pat-downs?

The article said this teacher had her genitals groped because the scanner detected a tissue and hair band in her pocket. Couldn't they just ask her to empty her pockets?? :shrug:

A lot of these humiliating pat downs could be avoided if people just used a little common sense. That seems to be in short supply these days.

[gkhouston]

17. I wouldn't have expected this hot-shit scanner to have a psycho freakout

over a kleenex and a scrunchie in my pocket. People are used to thinking about removing metallic objects, but everything? Doesn't sound like these scanners are that useful if you have to go to the grope over something as trivial as a tissue. What happens with bulky winter sweaters?

[CoffeeCat]

19. did you know that Michael Chertoff,

...George W. Bush's former Homeland Security chief now works for the company
that manufacturers the very same scanning machines that are in the airports?

Interesting little factoid.

[subterranean]

30. I wish I could say that surprised me. n/t

[auntsue]

35. How about - let's write a screenplay for an movie

about all the Bush buddies that have enriched themselves in the post 9/11, AfGHAN-IRAQ happenings. Cheney, Rove, Axelrod and now Chertoff. That's just the ones I know about. Or maybe Michael Moore is already writing it.

[gmoney]

83. Or the Rep. congrescritter calling to replace TSA with private companies

...who just happens to be a major shareholder in a firm that already does private security at 16 airports?

[dixiegrrrrl]

130. does he, now?

What's the name of the firm?

I shoulda figured there was more to it.....

[dixiegrrrrl]

89. Here is a story that links chertoff to the latest 'terra" panic:

"Chertoff was caught red handed shilling for full body scanners in behalf of a company that was a client of Chertoff's consulting company. He was busted in public by the New York Times editor.

What was the outcome? Chertoff's original, self-interested assertion prevailed. We have full body scans headed for 1,000 airports and, for those who don't want the radiation, the national security grope, invasive searches of the passenger's genital area."

worth the read, at atler-net:

http://www.alternet.org/rights/148924/the_bizarre_tale_of_graft_and_sleazy_political_opportunism_that_brought_us_the_%27porno_scanners%27?page=entire

[CreekDog]

40. Not really because if you have a metal joint --they check you for explosives

how can common sense deal with that? :wtf:

[kysrsoze]

15. What's next, strip searches? People, including little kids are literally being groped.

This is so fucked.

[LisaL]

20. Well the scanner is basically a kind of a strip search.

[awoke_in_2003]

141. they already do that sometimes...

body cavity searches- those are what's coming next.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. "the body scanner detected a tissue and a hair band " - this is what gets me. No one in their right

mind would see that on the scan and think it was a weapon. More likely, they thought they had found a BAG OF WEED! WEEED!! WEEEEEEED!!!

Honestly, if this was really about making us safer, it might be justifiable, but I think 80% of it is for show and the other 20% is for finding the errant BAG OF WEEEEEEED!!!!!! :eyes: in someone's pocket.

[Hannah Bell]

25. that got me, too. "sorry miss, you were hiding a tissue & a hair clip, we need to pat down your

privates. suspicious behavior."

[pansypoo53219]

27. security theater

as somebody said on NPR's talk of the nation. y=time to call bullshit on all this shit. and i fly barefoot.
stupidity police. people who take their coffee getting it checked. ridiculous.

[LisaL]

31. As far as I can tell, they have a set of procedures they follow.

Which might not really have anything to do with common sense. So I'd guess even if someone showed up at the airport totally naked they'd still do a either a pat down or a scan.

[spooky3]

119. I'm not sure that training is adequate. Most of the time they seem nice,

professional, just trying to get their jobs done.

But they sometimes freak out over very ordinary objects.

[gkhouston]

29. Just like a female passenger in another thread who got groped because of the

zipper in her pants. She would have rather stepped aside into the private area and taken the pants off, but no, they had to feel her up. The only zipper bombs we're likely to encounter this Thanksgiving will be around overladen dinner tables. :eyes:

[pipi_k]

78. But it really was the tissue...

or, rather, what was on it...


I'm quite sure that snot, when mixed with some other substance (crushed airline peanuts, I think) can be turned into a bomb...

:scared:

[spooky3]

118. even before this most recent insanity, agents once went crazy over a belt in my carry on

Just an ordinary, boring, dark leather BELT. I had to stand aside while they went through everything, so they could pull it out. Exactly what type of bomb/weapon, etc., looks like a women's small belt?

I don't know how people who travel a lot can stand this.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. I'm waiting for the bloody hand.

With a freaked out TSA agent attached to it. And a bunch of grossed out people within smelling distance. I am a grown woman past menstrual age. Menstruation is gross. Not fun, messy, smelly, and sometimes quite painful.

Women bleed every month, ya know, for about 30 to 40 years. That's 13 times a year. Some quite heavily. Also there is bleeding for several weeks after having a baby.

Lots of women have to wear heavy pads and diapers for urinary incontinence, even if they are too old to menstruate.

How in the hell are they gonna deal with sanitary pads and adult diapers?

[LisaL]

34. I am really curious as to what TSA rules are for someone

who is wearing an undergarment such as an adult diaper. Plenty of people are incontinent, and I presume the diaper will show up on the scan as suspicious? So that person would be selected for a crotch pat down, and then what?

[CreekDog]

42. they'll be told to take the scan to avoid the pat down, and then get patted down anyway

:eyes:

make a fuss people. if this was making us safer, i wouldn't suggest this approach but this particular thing is not.

make a fuss and it will go away.

[LisaL]

43. And what happens after being patted down?

If TSA agent feels up a diaper, will the passenger be required to strip down or allow TSA agent to examine this diaper?

[gkhouston]

46. That would be my guess. Thinking back to some of the Periods From Hell that

I had when my fibroids were acting up, they'll be in for some fun times.

[LisaL]

48. I imagine the one feeling like he or she was in hell would

be the humiliated passenger.

[CreekDog]

47. they will feel things they think are suspicious more closely and carefully

i don't know about taking one's pants down, i'm pretty sure not...but they will investigate further.

[Poll_Blind]

45. Kudos to you, BTW, for being so bluntly honest.

My girlfriend sometimes has very heavy periods and she is so uptight about her body, I kid you not, if she farts in her sleep she'll actually wake up just to say "Pardon me". I think she would just wink out of existence if such a thing happened, she'd be so embarrassed.

As to the answer of how are they going to deal with those situations, my guess is probably, quite poorly.

PB

[Manifestor_of_Light]

50. Yes I wondered.

I never could understand why girls would be proud of menstruating.

I think it should not be shameful, and should be talked about when necessary, but then on the other hand I always thought of it as a major life hassle that I have to deal with because I'm female.

I was quite disabled by my periods for decades and medical science couldn't do anything about it.
I had more than one doctor say "this will cure your cramps" which was not true. Medical b.s.


I grew up in the sixties and my mother never told me anything about menstruation or sex. I was baffled as to what males did in reproduction, because I had no brothers and a very modest father. My older sister was just as naive as I was. Even when I saw those cross section diagrams in books of genitalia, I was baffled because there's a limp penis -- what does that do?? The missing part was the erection, which no book was going to show anyway.

The only "sex ed" I got was that Disney movie in the fourth grade about menstruation, which only kept us from leaving bloody trails down the school hallways. It told us we'd be able to have a baby, but certainly never said a word about the male role.

I remember the first line in the little booklet they gave us: "Someday you will grow up and want to get married and have children."

Say whaaat? I wasn't sure about that -- didn't know whether I'd have kids or not.


For the world's most extensive discussion of the subject www.mum.org
Including those Lysol douche ads.

[Poll_Blind]

57. Very interesting! I went to the website and my girlfriend and I looked at it...

...together sort of half tongue-clicking, half-lamenting what women had to put up with. Neither of us had seen the menstrual suspenders before. I watched the Disney menstruation film you were talking about: Honestly, if I was a young girl seeing that I would probably come away believing that reproduction occurred asexually, the woman just deciding to reproduce.

Again, very interesting stuff.

:thumbsup:

PB

[gkhouston]

73. Suspenders! OMFG, I'd forgotten those things!!

:rofl: They called them "belts" in my day and I'd completely forgotten about them. Add that to the list of things I don't miss.

on edit: just signed a permission slip for my daughter to see "the film" at school next week. Hopefully, it's been brought up-to-date! At least she knows what's going to be in it and probably a good deal more, which is more than can be said for most of her classmates.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

113. Oh Lordy! Those elastic belts. What horrors.

I remember those from junior high. The sixties. The sticky back pad was a fabulous invention.

And of course the pad would get all wadded up. And no, we didn't wear onions on our belts (Grandpa Simpsons reference).

[gkhouston]

127. Yeah, I had one that was pink, as if I needed some hint that it was an item

meant for girls. :eyes:

Then again, we were luckier than our moms. My mom remembers when "on the rag" meant an actual rag. She says they were like diapers (similar material and shape), only rolled up, and her dad used to tease her by singing "Red Sails in the Sunset" on washday. :D

[Manifestor_of_Light]

142. My grandmother said she made diapers.

She got a pattern from her friend and made themselves diapers.

This would have been around World War I time or maybe before.

She was born in 1898.

[defendandprotect]

38. Shock and Awe -- !!

[HEyHEY]

49. Trust me, women never expect that

[JVS]

93. Smooth, dude, real smooth.

:eyes:

[Bonobo]

51. There are proud sheep on DU as well.

They convince themselves that it is acceptable.

That is the other enemy we fight.

The sheep.

[rexcat]

52. An my guess is the sheeple don't fly much either...

It is sad to see so many comments without basis.

[avaistheone1]

56. You can bank on it.

:kick:

Bunch of clucking hens!

[Anakin Skywalker]

59. ATTN: All Perverts! Please Apply to The TSA ASAP!

Imagine that, perverts! Not only are you now allowed to inappropriately touch innocent victims, you will actually get PAID to grope them!

[Nye Bevan]

68. A lot of them are already there, along with the wannabe cops

who absolutely *glory* in the power they have over helpless airline passengers. Many of them extract way too much enjoyment from their ability to confiscate sunscreen etc.

[flamingdem]

97. At Bradley they attempted to rip-off my laptop

At 6am I was sleepy and walked away without it after security - nobody went on the P.A. no one yelled for me in an empty airport. When I realized it I went back and they put me through hoops, many nasty questions, like when I said it's and Apple they said oh is it RED then? All the while not retrieving it for me... they had already felt good they got away with it and my return was not welcomed.

creeps

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

69. It would be awesome of people learned what the word "vagina" means

[LisaL]

70. Yes, exactly.

It's of utmost importance in order to properly describe what exactly TSA agents are touching at airports.

[WinkyDink]

77. It would be even more awesome if people understood American-English idioms.

[eShirl]

99. +1

[yawnmaster]

106. but how would it really change the quality of life? eom

[The Backlash Cometh]

90. Mark my words, people. There will be latent anger issues erupting over these humiliating experiences

[spin]

105. Good point. (n/t)

[felix_numinous]

107. I hope that there is a big enough stink

they are forced to change their methods. Our citizenship doesn't mean anything if we are all treated like smugglers and thieves, and terrorists. Seriously we should be free to travel in our own country aboard our own airplanes, and not have our personal space invaded, not by xray and not by molestation. They do have better technology than this.

With all the surveillance and endless redundancy of identification and photographing, it is ludicrous to treat law abiding citizens like criminals. They simply do not have reasonable cause.

[ProudDad]

114. Don't forget to let your favorite EX-airline to know how you feel about this

And then give them this name and number for them to call:

Secretary Janet Napolitano (traitor to the People of Arizona)
Department of Homeland Security
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC 20528

Citizen Line

* Operator Number: 202-282-8000
* Comment Line: 202-282-8495

[Generic Brad]

117. And the TSA claims 80% of Americans don't mind this?

That must be the 80% who do not fly.

[spooky3]

120. 99% of those who do know better than to argue about their civil rights at the airport.

They know they will miss their flight, be grilled for hours, maybe tossed in the slammer.

I don't believe any TSA data on this.

[Puregonzo1188]

125. Nor should she have. The pat-downs and the full body scans go way too far.

[TransitJohn]

129. Isn't this sexual assault? Won't some prosecutor somewhere bring these fuckers up on charges?

A guy can dream can't he?

[LisaL]

139. Well if anybody on the street came up to this woman and started

patting her crotch I am pretty sure she can get that person arrested and charged. So why is it legal for a TSA agent to do it? Because the woman consented to it? What good is consent if this is a condition of getting on the plane?

[Delphinus]

143. I am so

tired of the bs that a majority of folks show broad support for the full-body scanning machines.

I really hope that opt out next Wednesday clogs everything and shows the truth about what the American travelers think.

[KoKo]

144. Kick...