So, have President Obama and the Democrats in Congress "caved" yet

[Proud Liberal Dem]

I've not been seeing a whole lot of "caving" to the Republicans going on yet.

So far, the veto of the mortgage fraud bill was sustained, prospects for DADT repeal suddenly look MUCH brighter, a vote for middle-class tax cuts ONLY has been announced and President Obama is continuing to argue against extending the upper-class tax cuts, the Democrats re-elected Nancy the minority leader of the House for next session by a wide margin over the *objections* of the Republicans (and pundits) and remaining Blue Dogs in the House. Plus, they're giving the Republicans grief over their zeal to repeal Obamacare when one of their members had a hissyfit about not getting his "socialized medicine" soon enough.

So far, there are not a whole lot of signs that the Democrats have "gone capitulatin'" as some have feared since the election.

Maybe there's some fight left in the Democrats after all? :shrug:

[mmonk]

1. If they want to remain relevant at all, I guess a little fight

when it's too late is better than nothing. Maybe they can limit the damage if they can get around the Blue Dogs, the Republican party's ace in the hole for a decade now.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

2. Thankfully

there's fewer of them left in the upcoming Congress, which kind of cuts both ways. Our biggest challenge is laying the groundwork for electing more progressive candidates in "red" districts/states.

[mmonk]

4. Yes, that is one positive.

I think people at this point are looking for conviction from a Democrat, not a Republican like conservative. There are many swing districts we could win with coherent policy and direction.

[Pholus]

3. I'm sorry if you are offended by our worries. I REALLY hope you're right.

Remember that we *all* want our side to win over the forces of mendacity.

And my complaints? To draw an analogy to the words of Decatur and Schurz:
Our President, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.

The Prez has done as good as a any human being could be expected given the mess he inherited.

But based on what he said immediately following the election I would remind him that his game is politics, not idealism. If your stated initial position is that your goal IS compromise, what incentive is there for the other side to do anything but hold to a hard line? They either get SOMETHING or EVERYTHING THEY WANT.

The only way to get REAL compromise from the GOP is if they have to chose between getting NOTHING and getting SOMETHING.

Our guy is smooth. He'll pull it off. But the talk worries me a bit.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. Why shouldn't the *initial* position be compromise (or at least a willingness to do so)?

I've always interpreted his call for "compromise" and "bipartisanship" as indicating an open bargaining posture. It makes him look reasonable (and responsible) to me, even more so when the Republicans start jumping up and down and threatening to filibuster anything and everything no matter what he proposes or how reasonable he tries to be.

But just because he has expressed an openness to compromise I don't think that it means that he is pre-emptively "caving" to Republican demands on anything nor does it mean that he doesn't have any bottom lines or non-negotiables. It just means that he's willing to listen to what the Republicans have to say- to let the public know that he's not inflexible. Of course, the Republicans- helped along by the corporate media, of course- have managed to convince some people that President Obama and the Democrats are just cramming stuff down our throats with no regard to alternative viewpoints when, of course, the reality is that they have bent over backwards, forwards, and sideways to try to win Republican support that they ultimately didn't get but they pushed on with doing their jobs in spite of them.

Are you suggesting that he just get up there on the podium beating his chests and demanding x, y, and z and then only "compromise" once he realizes that he's not going to get x, y, and z? I thought that's basically what he's been doing (without so much of the chest-beating though). :shrug: I know that some of the legislation that's become law in this Congress hasn't been, for one reason or another, as terrific as we all hoped, but President Obama (correctly IMHO) recognizes that achieving something good for the public is better than nothing.

[Pholus]

8. You don't compromise then move left. The media will not let you.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. I'm not sure I exactly follow

Though it seems like Democrats are always expected to move to the right or "center" and there does not seem to be corollary demand for the Republicans to move to the left or even the "center". Right-wing ideas always seem to have high veneer of *credibility* that left-wing ideas and philosophies are almost never accorded. The corporate media is hypocritical and has different expectations and double standards for Democrats. It's sick and disgusting and I wish that somebody would do something to alter this dynamic though I imagine that most of the people in Washington DC are so used to the way things are that they can't see things any other way.

[bigtree]

15. right, the compromise talk is just a political cover for whatever he has planned

. . . and political contrast with republicans who are posturing as obstructionists.

[kentuck]

5. They meant to do that all along.

The pressure from their left meant nothing.

[AlinPA]

6. I don't understand why the pay equity bill failed in the House. They put it on "fast-track" and

it needed 2/3, and failed. I don't know why "fast-track" was used.

[lib2DaBone]

10. Mr. Obama is not a DEM.. he is not for the people.. or anything they represent....

[mzmolly]

16. So who did you vote for?

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

11. Nope, no caving to be seen. Lots of preemptive handwringing about caving

here though. ;)

Nice thread PLD. :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

12. in your alternate reality perhaps.

:crazy:

[mzmolly]

13. Did you read the OP?

Show me where it's not reality based.

[bigtree]

14. the 'cave' narrative was ignorant to begin with

. . . ignorant of the politics surrounding each of those decisions and ignorant of the actual views and intentions of this Democratic president and party.

[butterfly77]

17. Kicked...