Bill Gates says lower teacher salaries, raise class sizes

[proud2BlibKansan]

Gates Urges School Budget Overhauls

Bill Gates, the founder and former chairman of Microsoft, has made education-related philanthropy a major focus since stepping down from his day-to-day role in the company in 2008.

His new area of interest: helping solve schools’ money problems. In a speech on Friday, Mr. Gates — who is gaining considerable clout in education circles — plans to urge the 50 state superintendents of education to take difficult steps to restructure the nation’s public education budgets, which have come under severe pressure in the economic downturn.

He suggests they end teacher pay increases based on seniority and on master’s degrees, which he says are unrelated to teachers’ ability to raise student achievement. He also urges an end to efforts to reduce class sizes. Instead, he suggests rewarding the most effective teachers with higher pay for taking on larger classes or teaching in needy schools.

“Of course, restructuring pay systems is like kicking a beehive” — but restructure them anyway, Mr. Gates plans to tell the superintendents in his talk to the Council of Chief State School Officers, which opens a convention in Louisville on Friday.

more . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/us/19gates.html?_r=2&ref=education

[HuckleB]

1. Gates clearly has no clue what he's pushing.

Reward teachers for taking on larger classes?

Does it get any dumber than that?

[siligut]

57. It is a business model

I can't tell if you are kidding, so I will just say it. Business rewards results, based on money. Do a job for less money, and do it as well, that is good business. Gates is a good business man, he has the money to prove it. I don't agree, but I understand.

[Horse with no Name]

186. The absolute WORST nurse manager I ever had

was someone who failed in the business world and went to nursing school.
Never actually worked as a nurse, but had vast management experience so was given a management job.
Business is business. Education is education. Nursing is nursing.
They really aren't interchangeable...what works in one discipline doesn't necessarily work in another.
That's the problem with capitalism...trying to apply profit where money doesn't belong in the first place.

[siligut]

191. I couldn't agree with you more

Money shouldn't be the most important factor in education, medicine, media, communications...it goes on and on. I was just pointing out where Bill Gates is coming from.

[Confusious]

195. Yes, but I think I wil have to downgrade how smart I sort of think he is

Applying a hammer when you need a wrench is the sign of an idiot.

[siligut]

200. He has been highly rewarded for being a hammer kind of guy.

You do what works for you. Great analogy though.

[AnArmyVeteran]

198. Well said.

[Greyhound]

2. Funny how he doesn't advocate remodeling America's education system using the

schools he attended as a model.

This man is a parasite.

[siligut]

201. Bill went to Lakeside in Seattle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeside_School Have you ever driven by there? It is like a southern plantation with a soccer field. Anyway, it is not for the unwashed masses. OK, now I know you were being tongue-in-check, this is DU after all.

[Greyhound]

211. Yep. I posted that down thread a bit.

Another fucking parasite that we're supposed to get all gooey over because he lied, cheated, and stole more than anybody else.

Self made man.:eyes:

As I said in the other post, his future was assured the moment he popped out of his mommy's womb.

Those of us that know what fucking scum this shitheel is must keep putting it out there, because hardly anyone knows the shit he's done to get where he is.

[mix]

3. He's a jackass like Duncan.

Reformers?

Profiteers are more like it.

Why Obama buys into this neoliberal snake oil is beyond me.

[awoke_in_2003]

117. because he is one? nt

[mix]

4. dupe nt

[Warpy]

5. Why should anybody listen to a computer company boss?

He is so clearly out of his field on this one. He has absolutely no clue that achievement IS often tied to smaller class size and that districts that pay teachers more generally attract the cream of the crop in any given state.

One might almost think his aim is to eliminate teachers and substitute computers running his crappy software, instead.

[hobbit709]

6. Hey Gates! How about lowering your net worth by 99.9999999%

Until then STFU.

[Ramulux]

7. Genius

Take the two biggest problems that exist today in public schools and make them worse. What a brilliant idea.

[rucky]

8. Brilliant!

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. I wonder how much effort & study he has actually put into this hobby.

[Dappleganger]

10. Race to the bottom!!

And guess who loses?

[Contrary1]

11. How many students does Gates hope to cram into a classroom?

My son's 5th grade class has 34 pupils, 11 of which are English Language Learners. A bit difficult to teach when a third of the class doesn't fully understand English.

[gratuitous]

12. There's some out of the box thinking

After all, it's worked so well for the last 30 years: Make people work harder for less money. The wealth they generate gets accumulated into fewer and fewer pockets, and nobody can quite figure out why wages are stagnant and productivity is up. All that productiveness must be generating some fabulous wealth, but none of it is quite making its way into workers' pockets. It's a puzzlement, but thankfully Mr. Gates is here to recommend an exponentially increased application of the principle. It seems to have worked very well for him.

[mrs_p]

13. asshole. nt.

[TheKentuckian]

14. Fuck you Bill

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Amen

[HelenWheels]

15. my guess is Bill didn't have a good educational experience

and instead of making schools better for kids like him and others he wants to punish teachers. For a smart man he sure is stupid!

[Greyhound]

61. He had the very best education money can buy. He became interested in computers while

attending the Lakeside school where, in 1968, they got time on an IBM mainframe and he learned BASIC. Do you understand what that means?

He was born into the elite and his future success was assured the moment he popped out of his mommy's womb.

[phasma ex machina]

118. "Bill Gates wants people to think he's Edison, when he's really Rockefeller." - Larry Ellison

[Donnachaidh]

16. yeah, I want education to be run by a college DROPOUT.

Hey Bill, I got yer beehive right here ....

[struggle4progress]

17. Average teacher salaries are in the low 40s, not a huge amount of money

Average elementary class size is about 20: one could probably do a better job with 15

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. That's way too much for trough feeding teachers

:sarcasm:

[Yupster]

169. Interesting website

Average teacher pay by state.

Huge differences

Texas 41,000
New York 56,000
California 63,000

http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary.html

[struggle4progress]

181. Cost of living differs by state; so does public support for quality education

[Starry Messenger]

18. Teachers will flock away in droves!

Genius. :sarcasm:

[lib2DaBone]

19. Let me guess.. Gates will introduce an education program to replace teachers...

$$$$$$$$$$$$

[HockeyMom]

24. Virtual teachers

in India of course.

[The Gunslinger]

51. Sad thing is that is probably the plan

It seems like he wants to buy the educational system in this country and then run it to the ground.

[SoCalDem]

20. Why not just chain them to their desks & make them teach for free?

Gates is a bit of an ASS!

[The Gunslinger]

52. or video feed one teacher from India

using Gates software, to every school in America at the same time therefore eliminating teachers, and replacing them with minimum wage security guards. The man is evil. I have to some how make my next computer Gates free.

[awoke_in_2003]

120. ...

http://www.apple.com/

or, if you prefer:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

I use both, and both are worlds ahead of MS

[Mike Nelson]

21. They should do the OPPOSITE...

...double what we pay teachers and you will see the pool of teachers get better... and better.
...reduce class sizes and students' academic progress will increase... and increase.

[somone]

22. Who made him Grand Master Architect of the American educational system?

Was there a vote?

[LiberalCatholic]

23. Really?

I thought that we had to pay the banksters huge salaries to "attract talent." What does Gates think is the difference between banks and schools? And why is no one in Washington addressing the fact that the current most accurate indication of a student's school success is parental income? Do they really think that we can make the education gap just go away without addressing income disparity?

[phasma ex machina]

121. Banksters skim billions in bonuses when the Bernanke pays a premium to buy T-Bills from

bankster middlemen instead of just buying T-Bills directly from the Treasury like everybody else does.

[mzmolly]

25. Off topic,

I LOVE that bumpersticker P2B! :rofl:

In the words of Kathy Griffin, Bill Gates can suck it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. That bumper sticker would be on my car if I didn't have to park it

at an elementary school every day. LOL

And yes, Bill Gates (AKA College Dropout Bill) needs to suck it.

[aikoaiko]

26. There is some truth to what he is saying about the master's degree and raise contingency

There are a lot of teachers who get educational administration or educational leadership graduate degrees for more cash, but the course work and thesis have little to do with pedagogy.

[roody]

32. Those are the ones called "superintendent."

[Gabi Hayes]

47. some, as in just about none?

did you get that from the "some say" crowd?

jesus, what an ignorant, disingenous 'contribution'

[aikoaiko]

49. No, from direct observation.

I'm not convinced that some of the non-content, non-methods master's degree are contributing to...better teaching.

[Gabi Hayes]

53. so, you've been in education for how many years? you've personally

seen how many teachers (who intended to remain teachers, not become admins) take courses that aren't intended to improve their pedagological skills, merely aimed at putting them up into the +$250K bracket, and turn into teabaggers?

I've been doing it four fourteen years, and have seen none, so far. The teachers I know/have worked with/are familiar with, are in it to serve their students the best they can, and the ones that stay don't jerk around with courses merely designed to line their pockets

pretty insulting, IYAM

I have an M.Ed., and am currently living in the lap of luxury, thanks to my cushy sinecure

[aikoaiko]

69. 11 years.

Of course most teachers are doing the best they can, but some also game the system by getting master's degrees with little or no pedagogical value. Some states are more specific about the graduate degrees requiring content or methods, but some do not.

The bump up in pay is not tremendous (to $250K?? where did that come from), but worth it in the long run.

If you don't know about this, then consider me the first person to put it on your radar.

Teachers are human who are suseptible to the same economic pressures and some work the system just like anyone else. If you find that insulting, then so be it. Welcome to being considered a human being.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. susceptible

:eyes:

[aikoaiko]

80. When you can't admit where your enemies are correct or have a point, you undermine your own claims.

I don't agree with his overall plan, per se, but I do agree that simply getting master's degree (especially one without content or methods courses) is not necessarily making teachers better teachers.


edited to add: It might be a bigger problem in my state than yours.

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/11/12/paying-teachers-by-degrees-georgia-cuts-back/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. So we should lie and make something up?

Cause Bill the college dropout is wrong. There is zero research that supports what he is proposing. And being a college graduate myself, I'll support research backed reforms and not crap being proposed by a college dropout millionaire.

[msanthrope]

149. Do you have research that indicates that a seniority-based pay system improves student or teacher

performance?

What I found rather interesting is that the recently-approved Baltimore Teacher's Union agreement allows for pay increases for training and development, but not seniority. It also increased pay for all teachers---




"Seniority and graduate degrees will no longer be rewarded with higher pay. Instead, teacher salaries will be based on student performance and training outside of the classroom or professional development. The four-tier career ladder allows teachers to advance quicker.

"Whatever you are doing after school that teachers normally do and don't get paid for, now you can get achievement units and you move intervals so you can move two steps within one year instead of waiting a year, two, three to move, so that's what's exciting," said Patricia Cook-Ferguson.


The contract passed by 857 votes. It makes city teachers the highest paid in the state.

http://wjz.com/local/new.contract.teachers.2.2013646.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. There is no research supporting increased achievement with either system.

Socio economic status determines achievement. So if you want to increase achievement, fight poverty.

For the umpteenth time. If you're listening. Which I doubt.

Maybe if I posted from Baltimore . . .

[Catshrink]

163. The only cause for lack of student achievement that can be acknowledged

is teacher incompetence. Any other putative cause is just whining on the part of teachers. Oh, except for teacher unions - it's okay to blame them too.

[Yupster]

190. Just a personal aside

I was a very good teacher for 10 years (if I say so myself).

There were times when the counselor asked me if I could take another student from another teacher's class. We had two horrendously horriblicious teachers in my department. No, they were worse than that. They had high horribility quotients?

Anyway, as each school year went on, those teachers' classes got smaller as kids transferred out of their classes. There would be times when I had 33 kids and Mr awful had 21. The kid's parent would ask if their kid could transfer to my class. The counselor would ask me, and if I knew the parent from previous siblings or another reason or knew the problem the kid was having, I almost always said yes.

I knew, the counselor knew, the kid knew, and the parent knew that the kid would learn more as one of 34 kids in my class rather than one in 20 kids in the other teacher's class. We were all correct too.

This teacher really was a case by the way. He would let kids bring notes into the test. On the study sheet he wrote that the notes had to be on 4 by 6 index cards. Then he'd make a big show of ripping up all the much more common 3 by 5 cards the kids brought. He wouldn't collect textbooks until the final exam. Then he wouldn't let the kids who forgot their textbooks take the final.

Of course he taught year after year with every student, teacher, administrator, knowing he had serious problems.

[Catshrink]

205. That is a terrible situation...

The question of course is why the administrators didn't put that teacher on a PIP. There is a process for getting rid of bad teachers but most administrators won't do it. The result is that all teachers, good and bad, get labeled incompetent by those looking to degrade teachers in general. As good as my admins are, they would not confront a teacher in my department who everyone knew wasn't measuring up in terms of teaching ability and deficient in content knowledge. We were finally able to get rid of her on a technicality related to her highly qualified status.

The bottom line in our case and yours seems to be administrators reluctant to do their jobs. Because of this, the rest of us will have more burdens placed on us - more paperwork, more scrutiny, more stress.

[msanthrope]

164. Then you've conceeded Gates' point--senority-based systems don't benefit kids.

As for 'fighting poverty' I fail to see how the support of a senority-based pay system for teachers lifts a single child out of poverty.

I can see how vaccinations and microloans and grants do help poverty-stricken children. 10 Billion for vaccines for the world's children is nothing to sneer at, particularly when one's socio-economic status protects one from disease, hunger, and true want.

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. What Gates is recommending doesn't work either

But go ahead and gloss over that fact.

[Catshrink]

167. OMG! Bill Gates is such a wonderful man!

Just think what he does for the children.

[Hannah Bell]

170. and you've conceded the point that "merit" (sic) systems don't benefit kids either.

There's no research showing that they do; there is, however, some showing that they DON'T.

Because collegiality & cooperation are destroyed by a system which penalizes teachers for sharing materials & expertise -- which is what merit systems do.

There is no credible research showing that ANY of the so-called "reforms" being pushed through by the billionaire boys' club benefit students, and ten-plus years of experience showing that they DON'T; they make things WORSE.

Since the "reforms" have nothing to do with improving education, it becomes quite clear that they're all about union-busting, wage & benefit cutting, & raking more private profits from public spending, i.e. further impoverishing the general society while enriching the upper classes.

Is that your agenda as well?

[Hannah Bell]

168. Just because it says that in the paper doesn't make it true. And it's FALSE.

Calvert County MD district salaries start at $44.6K for a BA, & top out at $103.5K for a PhD+APC.

http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/departments/hr/contracts/cea/documents/payscales/fy11.pdf

Baltimore City schools start at $37.8K for a BA & top out at $74K for a PhD.

http://vtma.baltimorecityschools.org/Careers/Benefits/Salary_Schedule.asp

The new contract gives everyone a 2% raise this year & a $1500 signing bonus. That will shift their scale to $40K - $77K. Still lower than Calvert County, by far.

And after that, no raises are EVER guaranteed. The year after that, there is a scheduled 1-1.5% raise -- on "merit", i.e. not everyone will get it.

SOME teachers will be able to make 6-figure salaries, based on "merit" according to an as-yet-to-be specified system that will undoubtably include students scores, already PROVEN unstable & invalid as a determinant.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-17/news/bs-md-ci-teacher-contract-revote-20101117_1_marietta-english-baltimore-teachers-union-teacher-evaluations

The article you linked gives FALSE information & the talking point you keep repeating is FALSE.

[aikoaiko]

157. I guess you didn't read what I wrote because I didn't support his proposal.

I said there was some truth to claim that making salary raises contingent on master's degrees was not doing what it was supposed to be doing.

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/11/12/paying-teachers-by-degrees-georgia-cuts-back/

[Yupster]

188. I'll be number two aikoaiko

My Master's in Curriculum was about as worthless as a degree could be.

[Yupster]

189. I'll be number two aikoaiko

My Master's in Curriculum was about as worthless as a degree could be.

[aikoaiko]

202. Thank you for weighing in.

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

141. Well if you're convinced then by all means.

I think that the humanities courses I've taken have impacted my teaching ability far more than methods courses. That's what I'm "convinced" of.

[aikoaiko]

158. I would consider humanities courses to be content driven and would be helpful.

I should have written it this way: the non-content and non-methods master's degrees are problematic.

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/11/12/paying-teachers-by-degrees-georgia-cuts-back/

[Yupster]

187. My master's in Curriculum and Instruction

did nothing to make me a better teacher.

Further, the students were all teachers taking a class at a time at night. The professors knew they were tired and just taking the course to get their master's and its stipend. Ther professors didn't take the classes seriously, nor did the students (teachers). There were many times where the three hour class lasted little more than an hour.

This is just my own experience. My wife said her Master's in the same subject was more serious. She took it at a different college, though also at night once she was teaching.

[MadHound]

60. There are also a lot more teachers that get masters in their subject field,

Or in their age group, ie early childhood, elementary, etc., and the course work and thesis have everything to do with pedagogy.

The one's who are getting administrative masters go on to become, well, administrators. The rest of us go back into the classroom, taking our education with us, and become even better teachers.

So what is your point?

[aikoaiko]

70. Those who get admin master's degrees don't necessarily become admins. They just get a bump in pay,

Maureen Downey recently talked about it.

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/11/12/paying-teachers-by-degrees-georgia-cuts-back/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog

Decent content and methods master's degrees arguably should improve teachers teaching, but administrative master's degree have dubious value for teaching. Yet teachers (not admins) are getting raises for those master's degrees.

My point is that there is some truth to what Gates said about master's degrees.

[MadHound]

74. There is little truth to what Gates says,

And if you don't get the anti-teacher, anti-public school bias that Gates is coming from, perhaps you should look into it. Gates wants a privatized education system, one where he can sell his "universal lesson plans" and other such content across the country. He is, in short, in this for the money. Furthermore, Gates is not, in any sense of the word, an expert in education. His own education was at the Lakeside School, a private, exclusive prep academy. His experience with public schools is virtually nil. Furthermore, he is a college drop-out who went on to make his fortune in a field completely unrelated to education. So tell me, just what qualifications this man has to judge anything in regards to education. That is part of the problem that education has faced, and is facing with increasing frequency, namely people who are not experts, or even experienced in the field of education, are wanting to set policy for education. Would we do that in any other field, such as medicine, law or national defense? No, but somehow it's just fine to do that with education. Does that make any kind of sense to you?

As far as Downey's report, well, I find it suspect on the face of it. She references a report by Arthur Levine, president and professor at Columbia University's Teacher College. He is notorious for wanting to replace the Ed. D. with a master's degree in . . .(wait for it). . . education administration. Wait, isn't that what his own university does? And isn't that one of the very programs he is criticizing, Ed. Admin.? That report of his, Educating School Leaders, is agreed to be, by most professionals in the education field, to be little more than a thinly veiled academic hit piece designed to denigrate other universities' education programs in order to build up his own.

Downey further compounds the problem by referencing a RAND analysis published in 1996. Do you see the problems here? First of all the RAND Corporation is not only primarily concerned with matters of defense and national security, ie again, not education experts, but they are a notoriously conservative think tank that pursues a heavily corporate agenda. Second of all, this study that Downey references is 14, get that, 14 years out of date.

Finally, Downey is referencing a study conducted by Eric A. Hanushek and Steven G. Rivkin. Both of these men have, and continue to advocate for NCLB, charter schools, voucher systems, and the privatization of education across the country. Don't you think that is just the teensiest, tiniest bit suspect?

Which, all in all means what? Another, wittingly or unwittingly, biased hit piece of teachers and teacher ed. programs. Are there bad teacher ed programs, certainly. And sadly, since most teachers get paid so poorly and have to obtain advanced degrees out of their own pocket, a lot of teachers simply can't afford to go to the top flight schools. Even still, to dismiss all post graduate education programs as worthless is unwarranted and simply wrong. Even in areas like Ed. Leadership, the core curriculum does deal with many advanced pedagogy concepts and practices. Meanwhile, advanced degrees in Education, such as Early Childhood, Elementary, etc. deal with nothing but pedagological concepts and practices. Yes, the value of that education varies with the degree program, but isn't that true of any advanced degree? Sure, we'd all love to attend Harvard, but in reality we all can't, and we don't dun journalists, lawyers or doctors for getting their advanced degrees at Land Grant Universities rather than the Ivy Leagues. We judge the person on their results, not their education pedigree. Shouldn't we extend the same courtesy to teachers?

I would suggest that you, like most of the public, are getting a highly biased view of the world of teaching, and passing it off as gospel. Rather than simply accepting these agenda driven opinions as gospel, go do your own research, talk with actual experts in the field rather than relying upon agenda, and profit driven "experts" like Gates and such. You will come up with a completely different perspective, one that is much more in tune with reality.

[aikoaiko]

159. Thank you and I get it. I was just trying to point out the kernel of truth in Gate's claim re: MAs

I didn't and wasn't trying to make the case to follow his overall proposals.

[readmoreoften]

142. Exactly.

This also sounds too much like "Those sociology courses on urban poverty are useless! More test construction classes!"

I guarantee you that a course on urban poverty will far outweigh a test construction class for faculty teaching in poor urban areas.

[Octafish]

27. Keep America Stupid Act

Lousy public schools will make for a dumber population, one that is easier to condition and control.

Fuck you,Bill. You too, Ballmer.

[musette_sf]

28. How many Arne trolls recced this post?

[Codeine]

56. Reccing the post often means you think it should be read

not that you agree with the view of the person quoted.

[AnArmyVeteran]

29. Gates is a grossly overpaid idiot.

Just because he basically stole an operating system from a guy 30 years ago he made a ton of money. Gates did what a lot of other opportunistic business thugs do, he stole someone else's idea and didn't give him a dime of the future fortune he made with the actual inventor of the first operating system. It's somewhere between rare and non-existent for someone wealthy to have made their fortunes solely off of their own work. Most of the richest people in business step over others, stab them in the back or steal the ideas of others.

And Gates isn't giving away anything because anything he donates will result in having something named after him or stroke his unlimited ego. He certainly wouldn't give enough to change his lifestyle, do without a meal, or sacrifice in any way. Is it really giving if it doesn't cost him anything? Sonatas if he gives away a billion. He will still have another 30 billion to fall back on. A homeless person who gives another person his last dollar to buy some food gives up an infinite amount more than Gates or any other rich person could ever dream of giving.

While I think giving by anyone to another is a good gesture it's not 'giving' when it doesn't scratch the surface of your true wealth. And just because someone is rich doesn't make them an expert on education or anything else. Teachers know infinitely more about teaching than Gates will ever know. There's no way he would ever give up his empire of wealth and take a job making $30,000 a year only to be attacked by your bosses, parents and students.

[roody]

30. Eliminate all jobs whose title includes superintendent.

[NNN0LHI]

33. The motherscratcher who lives in 66,000 sq ft house worth 147.5 million dollars talking ...

... about cutting teachers pay?

I say we eat this fucker. Right now!

Don

[AnArmyVeteran]

44. He is too evil to be edible, but using him to catch crabs would be okay.

Gates ranks up there with old, rotted chicken necks as good bait to catch crabs.

[readmoreoften]

66. Oooo. I like. I was thinking feeding him to dogs, but catching crabs is much better!

I wouldn't want to eat the rich myself. They tend to be gamey from all the personal trainers and plastic surgery. But great for crabbing!

[MichiganVote]

34. Uh huh...kids today are already killing each other Bill.

[JackRiddler]

36. Of course. Do the opposite of what works.

He got rich selling a product that doesn't work, so why should he think otherwise?

[RedCloud]

37. How about charging less for computers so kids can use them at home?

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. I wish Gates would spend his money giving computers to kids

instead of dictating stupid policies to schools.

[Little Star]

38. Ugh! What an ass Gates is.

[Owl]

41. Gates doesn't know squat about any of this.

[AnArmyVeteran]

45. No, you forgot, when people get rich they know EVERYTHING. (sarcasm)

Gates has never had a job in education and would get fired after a day because he would be clueless in a classroom.

[mudplanet]

42. And he's an expert on education. Just ask him if he is.

It's funny how the conservative recipe for excellent ceo's is to pay them well and the recipe for excellent teachers is to pay them poorly.

[Hannah Bell]

43. kr: both gates & buffett recently showing their true colors.

[mzteris]

46. what an utterly false thread title.

[tkmorris]

50. Doesn't look false to me

Would you care to elaborate?

[readmoreoften]

65. How is it false? It's exactly what he's proposing.

:crazy:

[Nye Bevan]

179. Except that the thread title says that Gates wants to "lower teacher salaries"

which he never even suggested. Read the full story that is linked.

[msanthrope]

72. Of course it is--but the irony is that when one posts such blatant misrepresentations, one

tends to reinforce the idea that the average teacher has reading comprehension problems, or, thinks that the rest of us do.

Clearly, Gates is referring to allocating raises according to performance and not seniority--a system discussed on this very same site, and adopted by the Baltimore Teacher's Union, as referenced in this recent thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9578920

From the OP of this thread:

"Instead, he suggests rewarding the most effective teachers with higher pay for taking on larger classes or teaching in needy schools."

This statement was translated to: "Bill Gates says lower teacher salaries, raise class sizes." This use of hyperbole suggests an inability to raise a cogent argument against the elimination of seniority raises.

Which is unsurprising. In fact, I've yet to read on this site a single, rational, statistically-based defense of seniority-based raises for teachers.

That's probably why the Baltimore Teacher's Union voted to approve Gates' proposal of pay restructuring.

[Hannah Bell]

138. Baltimore teachers voted *against* it on the first vote. They voted *for* it

after they were forced to vote again because they didn't get it right the first time, & the collusionary union minions sent out their re-education squads.

Bill Gates' "pay for performance" = paying less overall, paying less to most, paying more to boot-kissers & collusionists.

[msanthrope]

143. Right. Since the vote didn't go your way, you accuse union members of collusion?

They didn't ratify in October, but did in November.

Were they supposed to work without a contract?

[readmoreoften]

146. Yes, a quantity of union members are always informants and payees of bosses.

That's reality. Are you really that dense? You must be in management. You obviously have no experience as a worker.

[Hannah Bell]

148. and that includes, especially, *leadership*. it's obvious from the last 40 years;

concessionary contract after concessionary contract, declining union democracy, increased "professionalization" of the leadership, increasing secrecy around contract negotiations, & declining union membership.

not to mention purges of dissidents, both in the leadership & the rank & file.

it's obvious from the way the leadership neither informs its membership nor mobilizes it against real threats to their wages, benefits, working conditions & their very existence.

[msanthrope]

154. Funny--this contract made the BTU the highest-paid teachers in the state.....

Teachers Approve New Contract Wednesday Reporting
Denise Koch BALTIMORE (WJZ) ―

SNIP

Seniority and graduate degrees will no longer be rewarded with higher pay. Instead, teacher salaries will be based on student performance and training outside of the classroom or professional development. The four-tier career ladder allows teachers to advance quicker.

"Whatever you are doing after school that teachers normally do and don't get paid for, now you can get achievement units and you move intervals so you can move two steps within one year instead of waiting a year, two, three to move, so that's what's exciting," said Patricia Cook-Ferguson.

SNIP

The contract passed by 857 votes. It makes city teachers the highest paid in the state.


http://wjz.com/local/new.contract.teachers.2.2013646.html


So, the collusionists managed to get a higher pay rate, quicker advancement opportunities, and credit for the professional development courses they would have to take anyway--and they got these benefits for the entire union?

I am sure that all 'pure' union members will immediately eschew those benefits in a show of worker solidarity.

[Hannah Bell]

171. FALSE. It does no such thing, as anyone who does 5 minutes of research can check for themselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9593317&mesg_id=9600021

So please stop repeating this FALSE talking point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

160. Stop confusing us with facts, Hannah

:sarcasm:

[Nye Bevan]

180. "Something historic has happened here in Baltimore,"

"Something historic has happened here in Baltimore," Marietta English, president of the Baltimore Teachers Union, said after the votes had been counted.

According to an unofficial tally, union members ratified the revised agreement by a 1,902-1,045 vote.

So I guess you disagree with the President of the Baltimore Teacher's Union. And 1902 Baltimore Teachers' Union members. OK, that is your right.

[Hannah Bell]

193. which vote? the one before or after the "re-education" camps and bribes?

[readmoreoften]

145. Getting more pay for teaching larger classes means raising class sizes.

You obviously don't work in education or you'd know exactly what that means. As someone teaching 400 students next semester I know EXACTLY what more pay for "willing to teach larger class sizes" means.

There is no excuse for large classes. None. NONE NONE NONE.

And by the way, I also know what "higher pay" means in this instance as well. And it ain't much.

[Generic Other]

48. Don't touch my junk, Bill

You should take a pay cut every time your crappy software fails.

[CreekDog]

54. I realize he has a loud microphone --but exactly what makes him an expert in getting kids to learn?

he's a smart guy...but would you take medicine he prescribed?

would you let him manipulate your neck or spine?

would you let him check your prostate?

so why should we change the education system kids experience because of his recommendation?

[readmoreoften]

67. He's not just a guy with a microphone. He's a rich guy with a microphone.

And that means he's smart or something.

[demodonkey]

55. Gates is so full of shit they should call him Eljer.

No one would every say that a surgeon who pursued advanced training isn't really helping to improve patient outcomes. They would just had the "specialist" a few more hundred thousand (or million) every year.

But teachers, who handle the young minds of our future leaders, a most precious resource, are considered menial labor.

We should be paying teacher MORE, and urging them to get all the education they can. How about cutting the salaries of CEOs and former ones to pay for it?

Gates can't even make a decent computer -- Mac user here. ;-)

[JackRiddler]

58. Well I say all education systems should switch to Linux.

[Kat45]

59. "achievement" re: education is like "productivity" re: business

Same sort of bullshit. All good for the business, for profit, for those on top to rake it in; shit for everybody else.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

62. I know!!!! Lets do that and also put a computer at their desk...

That'll be 5,000,000+ ............






Mac's

[wo ooo]

63. hes a real doll, ainhe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQfywHtAhTM

[readmoreoften]

64. And THAT's why I'm teaching over 400 students next semester.

(And that's why no one can read or write anymore...)

[Major Hogwash]

68. What should we do about all the road work that needs to be done, Bill? Take a horse?

How far back in to the 1900s are you willing to go?

[WinkyDink]

71. Watch while the nation's teachers and their relatives stop buying his products.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. I never liked his crap anyway

None of his products are in my house and they never will be.

[Nye Bevan]

73. I didn't see anything in the story you linked about "lowering teacher salaries".

Perhaps you were mistaken in this regard?

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. "He suggests they end teacher pay increases based on seniority"

Since school districts have limited budgets, it's not a leap to know the next step would be reducing salaries.

But thanks for playing.

[Catshrink]

86. Legislatures are doing this for school districts

Ours will do it midyear, even though we have contracts. We're anticipating a pay cut in January - I think the number was 8% - it might have been 11%. Either way, I'm screwed. (I almost wrote "screwn" but you know what would happen if I did!)

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. Same here

We'll probably lose tenure this year. And there's a big article in today's local paper about performance pay.

[msanthrope]

90. And give MORE money to teachers who take bigger classes

and/or have better performance scores.

Your failure to note that point indicates a lack of comprehension as to the true issue at hand--pay restructuring.

Ironically, your misstatement of the point of the article does a greater disservice to your cause:

1) Hyperbole and misstatements turn off posters who are not in your echo chamber; AND

2) You have failed to cogently argue against a pay restructure.

Happily, I find myself not the only DUer who was able to note that Gates was not arguing for lower pay--but raise restructuring.

Too bad more teachers didn't catch on.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. You and ONE other in this thread

Your constant attacks on teachers are duly noted. Hopefully the new rules here will help.

[Catshrink]

109. Don't hold your breath.

[msanthrope]

110. The new rules still encourage the use of facts.

What you still haven't addressed is the change in pay structure, nor have you made a cogent argument as to why Gates is wrong.

And that's an argument worth making, since you have teacher's unions themselves voting for this change. (e.g. Baltimore last week.)

[Catshrink]

113. Civility.

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. Avoid broad brush attacks on groups of DUers

[Nye Bevan]

130. Hey moderators! I believe that good teachers should earn more money!

While mediocre or poor teachers should *not* receive pay increases simply for staying in the job longer.

If this is a "broad brush" attack please delete this post!

[msanthrope]

144. I have to agree with this statement--good teachers, more money.

Not so good, less.

[Hannah Bell]

172. "good" -- as determined by who, using whose metrics & criteria?

As has already been demonstrated, the measurement systems proposed by the deformers are worse than useless; what they supposedly measure is unstable from year to year and therefore the measurements can be presumed to be invalid.

Even worse, the teachers being cut are overwhelming black & hispanic, & their supposedly "superior" replacements overwhelmingly young & white.

Pretty easy to see what they're "measuring" there.

What a fraud you're supporting.

[Nye Bevan]

176. Good teachers

Good teachers:
• have a sense of purpose;
• have expectations of success for all students;
• tolerate ambiguity;
• demonstrate a willingness to adapt and change to meet student needs;
• are comfortable with not knowing;
• reflect on their work;
• learn from a variety of models;
• enjoy their work and their students.


http://www.sabes.org/resources/publications/adventures/vol12/12hassett.htm

Hannah, reading your posts, it sounds like you believe that it is totally impossible for anyone to figure out who the good teachers are and who the bad ones are, and so you believe that we shouldn't even try to reward the good teachers for the quality of their teaching. Is that true? You don't even want to try?

[Hannah Bell]

183. no, it's just impossible to figure out with enough fairness to base a merit wage scale on.

look at your own list: how would you measure such airy-fairy "standards"? what is a standardized measure of "a sense of purpose"? there are dozens or hundreds of items that could indicate same.

furthermore, the benefits that doing so would bring are far outweighed by the costs & drawbacks of doing so.

furthermore, i don't think that, in general, there's such an animal as a "good teacher".

i think there is a "competent" teacher, & that within that category, some teachers are "good" for some students, & others are "good" for others, & what makes it so is the mix of student/teacher personalities, school situations, & all the hundred other factors that contribute to the learning situation. and that it changes class to class, year to year.

nor do i believe that "good" teachers are key to student achievement, since i've lived in japan & seen outrageously "bad" teachers & apparently "bad" classes who were, in terms of test scores, highly successful.

and by "bad" teacher i mean one teaching a class of 50, droning on & on, never even engaging the kids with questions, while 1/4 of the class slept behind their books, another half ate their lunches or doodled or wrote love letters -- where only a handful actually seemed to be paying attention or taking notes.

no, i don't believe any standard measure can pick out "good" teachers as a class, & i don't believe in merit pay in teaching. i believe merit pay sets colleagues against each other, results in less sharing of materials, methods, and information, divides faculties more into cliques, gives more power to administration and less to faculty.

and i believe this because i've experienced the two kinds of workplaces & know it for a fact. people who've only experienced the one kind (the typical kind in the us) can't understand what a difference it makes.

nor do i believe that most of the "deformers" even believe their own rhetoric, since the program they prescribe for the poor is NOT the program they prescribe for their own precious darlings.

furthermore, after i proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the baltimore contract DOES NOT make baltimore teachers the highest-paid in maryland, that that is FALSE, i consider it disingenuous that you don't acknowledge that, but rather, move on to yet another attempt to MAKE IT ABOUT *ME*, rather than addressing the FACTS.

[Nye Bevan]

184. "I don't think that, in general, there's such an animal as a 'good teacher'. "

I know from personal experience that there *is* such a thing as a "good teacher". I am sorry that you were never lucky enough to experience one yourself. But given that you don't think good teachers exist there is really no point in me trying any further to convince you that these non-existent people deserve to be better compensated.

[Hannah Bell]

185. you have a comprehension problem. or else you're just a spinner.

i'll put you down as unable to deal with issues of fact.

[Hannah Bell]

173. As i've already shown, the "change in pay structure" is a fraud.

It does NOT make Baltimore teachers the highest paid in the state; in fact, after this year, the majority of Baltimore teachers will not be guaranteed any raises whatsoever.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9593317&mesg_id=9600021

But it does open the door to mass firings, which is its real purpose.

[readmoreoften]

147. TEACHING MORE STUDENTS = LOWER PAY. WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THAT????

If I teach 50 students @ $3000 per course and then I'm asked to teach 300 students @ $5000 a course, that's LOWER PAY. You need to learn how to add, subtract, and divide.

[msanthrope]

155. So you agree with Bill Gates--that teachers who have larger classes should get paid for it?

I would have thought you did not support a 'piecework' method of payment, but it's obvious you agree with Gates--teachers who have bigger classrooms deserve more pay.

I, myself, am uncomfortable seeing students as 'units' that you should be paid per...

[Nye Bevan]

92. "Ending pay increases based on seniority" is very different from "lowering teacher salaries".

The title of your thread is very misleading.

God forbid crappy teachers don't get pay increases just because they've been at a school forever.

[proud2BlibKansan]

96. And every teacher in the business understands exactly what Gates means

I teach special Ed. Another of our teachers here teaches Art- not tested. There is a Science teacher here- not tested. And a kindergarten teacher - not tested. NONE of OUR students will EVER earn us a raise. Take away seniority pay and pay for post graduate degrees and we don't get a raise.

This is not the least bit difficult to understand. Personally my pay is frozen and will likely soon be reduced.

80% of all teachers do not teach tested subjects. So by endorsing Gates' plan you are agreeing to award salary increases to only 20% of our teachers. And you criticize US for not agreeing with the college dropout billionaire. Good grief.

[Nye Bevan]

102. If you are a good teacher

you would be better off teaching at a school that rewards good teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. Rewards them based on what?

[Nye Bevan]

127. Here's what makes a good special ed teacher

1. You love your role, you love being with your students and you couldn't imagine doing anything else. You were meant to teach special needs children, you know this in your heart.

2. You have a great deal of patience and know that little steps in learning go a long way.

3. You know your students well and they are comfortable and at ease with you, they enjoy having you as their teacher and look forward to going school each day.

4. You provide a non-threatening, welcoming environment that nurtures each of the students you work with.

5. You understand your students, you know what motivates them and you know how to scaffold activities to ensure that maximum learning occurs.

6. You take each student from where they are and provide experiences that will maximize success. You're always discovering new things about your students.

7. You are very comfortable working with exceptional learners and learners with diverse needs.

8. You thrive on challenge, can easily build relationships with your students and your student's parents.

9. You are a life-long learner and committed to the profession.

10. You have a never ending willingness to ensure that all students reach their maximum potential. You constantly strive to 'reach and teach' every student under your care.

http://specialed.about.com/od/teacherchecklists/a/qualities.htm

The more of these qualities that apply to you, the better you should be compensated.

Note that one factor is missing from this list:

11. Has been in his position for many many years.

(Many DUers seem to think that this should be the first and only item on the list).

[Hannah Bell]

139. oh, gag me. please tell me how "loving your role" is measured in a way

that generates a fair salary schedule.

it's windy, contentless blather.

[Catshrink]

162. Sounds like someone who has watched too many misty eyed TV

documentaries about a heroic teacher that does the impossible but not realizing the incredible confluence of events that made such "success" occur. In other words, one who has no idea about what goes on in the classroom every freaking day.

[Nye Bevan]

177. All the parents at my kids' schools know who the good teachers are and who the bad ones are.

That being the case, is it really so difficult to figure out a way to reward the good teachers?

[Hannah Bell]

196. you don;t get it: "all the kids & parents know" does not an impartial ratings system make.

you miss the point entirely.

[Catshrink]

206. For many parents, it's that teacher who'll give a lazy student an A

so he or she can get into an Ivy. For students, it's often the teacher that has little work and expectations.

[Nye Bevan]

178. You never had a teacher who truly loved to teach, and inspired you?

As opposed to someone who was just going through the motions and made the whole process boring? I had both kinds of teacher when I was at school, and I know which kind deserves more money.

[Hannah Bell]

197. as i said, you have a comprehension problem.

it is not necessary to be "inspired" to learn. and the teacher who "inspires" bill may completely bore jill.

i don't understand why so many people seem to think that the teacher who fits student X perfectly will thus fit EVERY student perfectly.

there are competent teachers.

there's no such animal as the universally "good, inspiring" teacher you posit. the whole idea is ridiculous, unrealistic, a product of hollywood.

[Catshrink]

208. So much of that is subjective and dependent on the interest of the student.

Occasionally I add a test question asking students what they liked best or least about the unit we've just completed or a question eliciting their opinion. I let them know these aren't graded for right or wrong, they'll get a few points for expressing their opinion and giving me feedback. It's good for the students to have a chance to comment and in the past I have made adjustments based on student input.

This came up last week and these are some of the responses;

* I love this - this is what my dad does at work and now I understand what the words he uses mean.

* I didn't like any of it.

* I liked putting the circuits together and seeing what made the bulbs light and how bright they got.

* I thought the circuits were confusing and hard to do. It got really boring.

* The capacitor was really cool.

* The capacitor was boring.

Add there were a number of complaints about reading, homework, quizzes, and tests - but not nearly as many as I expected. This group of students was very forthcoming.

If you were to judge my effectiveness based on these comments, which comments would you choose? Which student would rate me higher, the one who was bored or the one who loved it so she could understand what her dad does at work? Is this a valid means of assessment?

[Nye Bevan]

175. dupe

[proud2BlibKansan]

199. And how is any of that measured??

Since my classroom is 80% more non-threatening than the teacher across the hall, I get 80% more in salary? LOL Or is there a challenge meter?

Gag me is right. What a ridiculous non answer to a legitimate question.

[Nye Bevan]

204. Most things cannot be measured on a strict numerical scale.

As an employee myself, most of the things that I am evaluated on cannot be quantified on a strict numerical basis. But in general, teachers who provide a welcoming, non-threatening environment certainly should be compensated better than teachers who do not.

[proud2BlibKansan]

207. So you have no answers

You also obviously have no experience in education. I do and I am not interested in competing for a raise with the teacher across the hall, especially if we are to be judged on things that cannot be measured.

[Nye Bevan]

209. Should a secretary with an upbeat positive attitude get more money

than one who is constantly sullen and negative? Yes.

Should a secretary whose attitude is 80% more positive than his or her coworkers get a salary that is 80% higher? No.

Does this mean that one secretary is "competing for a raise" with his or her coworkers? Not necessarily.

Somehow most professions have figured out a way to pay the best performers the most money, even though most indicators of performance cannot be quantified by a simple numerical scale.

There are good secretaries and bad secretaries. There are good doctors and bad doctors. There are good lawyers and bad lawyers. I don't think anyone would disagree with this. But I am perplexed that there are DUers who seem to genuinely believe that there is *no* such thing as a "good teacher".

[Danger Mouse]

75. For a genius, Bill Gates is a fucking idiot. And he doesn't know what he's talking about. Ass.

[Greyhound]

212. And he's no genius.

Unless the definition of genius has changed to include the ability to have Daddy buy your way out every time you get caught stealing.

Dull average is genius when you are born into the right family.

[Canuckistanian]

76. Teachers' salaries should be indexed to Wall St. bankers' salaries

Because the argument for bankers' high salaries is that high salaries attract excellence.

Why doesn't that principle apply to teachers?

[Nye Bevan]

128. I think his point is that this principle *should* apply to teachers.

That is, excellent teachers should receive high salaries (as opposed to long-serving teachers).

[Canuckistanian]

174. Fine. But the standards by which teachers are evaluated are insane

Aggregate test scores are NOT the way to judge a teachers performance, especially with the bullshit criteria that is mandated by NCLB.

[northernlights]

81. because he's such an experienced educator

:puke:

Seriously, I'm going for my 2nd BS degree and for the 1st time get to experience professional educators (such as my chemistry and biology professors and one program director, all with masters in ed) versus professionals (such as my statistics instructor, clinical instructors, my general microbiology and one program director, all PhD in their field professors).

There is NO comparison. The "professionals" have consistently nasty attitudes, are unable or unwilling to answer questions (and unwilling to admit when they don't know the answer), have no concept of how much is a reasonable amount of information to expect good students to learn in a 2 week period, have no idea how to *ask* questions (which makes tests very interesting), and have lousy interpersonal skills to boot.

So of *course* they'll listen to the "professionals" with no concept of how to teach, how much to teach, what to teach, how to test, how to grade...:eyes:

[conspirator]

82. At least Gates is consistent. Since he is outsourcing americam jobs anyway

why should the government waste money educating people?

[erodriguez]

83. K & R

[LWolf]

84. I want Bill Gates to teach. For a year. Without the support that

wealth and power brings him.

[Starry Messenger]

85. We'll call it "Inward Bound"

CEOs and hedge fund managers have to teach for a year without their wealth.

[LWolf]

87. And we get to film it and display it for entertainment purposes.

Reality tv. We can show what happens to their lives outside of work, we can examine all of their data with microscopic focus, we can have actual teaches discussing their performance live...

I want to see them manage the schedule and work day without the resources and support they are accustomed to.

[Desertrose]

89. That's reality tv I'd actually watch!

Maybe that would actually wake them up.....


:hi: LWolf :hug:

[LWolf]

111. Hi, friend!

:hug:

Even well-meaning people who really want to support positive reforms don't "get" what goes into the day, and the job. We're seeing that clearly here, where our district really DOES want to support us.

[Starry Messenger]

91. Ooh, I'd watch that too.

:evilgrin: I like your proposal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. He can have my job for a day

My kids will eat him up and spit him out before lunch.

[LWolf]

112. Some of mine would.

The rest of them would be polite and try hard...but go nowhere.

[proud2BlibKansan]

122. I've spent the last 4 or 5 years working alongside miniature Bills

TFA recruits with no education training. So been there done that.

[YvonneCa]

194. Now, THAT's a fantastic...

...idea! Without the support, and with a video camera live-streaming from his classroom the whole time. ;)

[Catshrink]

210. Be sure to have 25% of the class special needs or ELL students

[YvonneCa]

215. My class was always 88%...

...ELL. Wonderful kids...but a challenge, nevertheless. I think Bill should give that a try. :7

[tjwash]

88. Jeez Bill...just come straight out and admit already...

...that you just want to flat out make public schools training centers for prisons and workhouses. Of course they will all be running his wintel microshaft PCs as well x(

[Rex]

95. Like Bill Gates is qualified to make suggestions about education.

The flunky stole DOS and crapped out Windoz with hacked software. He only knows how to 'get ahead' by stepping on necks. Look for him to help destroy our almost dead public school system...in your town!

[KansasVoter]

97. LOL...jealous much? And what have you done?

[Starry Messenger]

98. Well he hasn't stolen an operating system

so morally he's already way ahead of Bill Gates. That's a big first step.

[KansasVoter]

125. He bought DOS for $50,000

[Starry Messenger]

126. And?

That's like buying someone's mineral rights for $50 when you know there is oil there and you've got the money to exploit it. I'm sure that paltry sum is a distant memory to him. He just spent $2 million dollars simply on a promotional campaign for Waiting For Superman to hurt teachers. Hey, which side are you on today anyway? One day you're Mr. Friend of the People and the next day you're all up in everyone's faces.

[KansasVoter]

129. Jesus, you are one of those liberals aren't you......

who would get mad at a person buying land at $10,000 and selling it for $50,000!

Lets ban making a profit. Smart.

And the guy he bought it from was thrilled and still is not mad.

[Starry Messenger]

134. I'm a socialist.

So yes, you're barking up the wrong tree. Have a day. Goodbye.

[KansasVoter]

136. When you find a place to live where profit is not allowed let me know.

[readmoreoften]

150. What does that have to do with being a socialist?

Socialists aren't like cows who are looking for a ready-made dream environment where capitalists don't exploit. They fight to make that happen in the real world. Every protest you see abroad and most of them in the US are led by SOCIALISTS. They sure as hell aren't being led by people waiting around for Obama to make things happen.

Sometimes the ignorance on DU astounds.

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. If that poster is a college graduate

there's one thing Bill hasn't done.

[Kolesar]

104. :snort:

:chuckle:

[Rex]

106. As a matter of fact I am.

The hero worship of Bill Gates by some people is disgusting, but expected.

[Rex]

105. Really? What fact do you have such a problem with?

Touch a nerve did I? Hey, here is something else - Bill Gates stole all his ideas and forced upon the world a half baked OS that the average person can't fix.

[proud2BlibKansan]

123. And here's what I've done

Taught disabled kids for 18 years.

Taught low income kids for 31 years.

Lobbied for a law to give rights to renters who lose their homes when landlords are foreclosed. Saved at least a dozen families that I know of from losing their home with no warning. I even got a plaque for that and I'm pretty proud of it.

So I've changed people's lives for the better. Bill meanwhile tells other people what to do based on his own lack of knowledge and experience. I wouldn't trade places with him for all of his money. :)

[KansasVoter]

124. I don't see Bill Gates making fun of you!

[proud2BlibKansan]

133. He thinks I'm incompetent

and he doesn't believe I earn my current salary. Plus he wants to increase my workload.

[KansasVoter]

135. I don't agree with you but that is fine if you believe it.

[readmoreoften]

151. LIVE BILL GATES ALONE!!!!! HE'S A PERRRRSON!

:eyes:

[Starry Messenger]

156. lol!

St. Bill must be the internet patron saint to ambitious nerds or something. It's like we attacked the fertility god today.

[Hannah Bell]

140. let's see: what has *bill* done? besides steal other people's work & use his family

connections to make money.

he's the 4th generation of a regional banking dynasty connected to the rockefellers.

[readmoreoften]

152. +1

No... he pulled himself up from his bootstraps, Hannah!!!

[Hannah Bell]

153. yes, he's a great american rags to riches story.

his great grandpa made the riches, & Bill is reducing us to rags.

[Greyhound]

213. We could devote a forum to the crimes of Bill Gates. M$ is vying with GE

for the title of the world's largest criminal enterprise.

Another of Clinton's unforgivable crimes was allowing this crime spree to go unpunished.

[Zoeisright]

99. Fuck you, Gates.

What a piece of shit.

[kiranon]

103. He needs to state how public schools are to handle special needs children.

Some people think that Gates is on the autism spectrum. How does he propose to have special needs children taught when classes are larger and teachers are paid less? Or any kids. To attract the best people, schools need to pay more not less.

[City Lights]

107. Spoken like a true drop-out.

:thumbsdown:

[JonLP24]

108. Wow -- that's a bad idea

[earth mom]

116. Who needs money anyway?! So says one of the world's most richest men.

Bet he is against raising taxes on the rich too, the bastard! :grr:

Pay attention people. This is what the rich really think of the great unwashed middle class and poor.

Education is for schmucks.

It's so much better to lie, cheat, steal and create monopolies to achieve untold wealth.

[Nye Bevan]

132. When did he say "who needs money anyway"?

He seems to be saying that the best teachers should be paid *more* money. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

165. The problem is how he is defining 'best'

[Missy Vixen]

131. Earth to Bill Gates

One must have a Master's degree to get a teaching job in Washington State. In other words, a beginning teacher (who starts at less than $30K per year, IIRC) has racked up student loan debt to even get a job here.

Considering the fact it's well-known here his own kids go to a private school (and he went to a private school, the Lakewood School in Seattle,) he is the LAST person I would look to for advice on the public education system.

Hey, Bill: Shut it.

:mad:

[jpak]

137. Bill Gates jumpeth ye sharke

verily

:thumbsdown:

[defendandprotect]

182. Sounds like a good way for you to make huge profits, Bill ...???!!!!

[laughingliberal]

192. Just marching us blindly towards neoliberal paradise. nt

[grumgrum]

203. Ironically, he was not only a Drop-out but didnt do well in school.

Maybe his ideas is what is needed then...worth a shot seeing as how the US education systme is comparable to a 3rd worlds...that is, unless you have rich mommy and daddys to send you off to a $100K/year private schooling.

[Hamlette]

214. much simpler solution: triple teacher salaries immediately

it will take some time but we would then attract the best and the brightest into the field and figure it out from inside.

My problem with "performance" based pay is it puts teachers at the mercy of some supervisor. I've worked in both systems. The ass kissing one works with a good manager but is a disaster with a bad manager.

Too important to experiment with our kids like that.

If Bill wants to help, tell him to teach for a few years and then tell us what he thinks.

[Nye Bevan]

216. Almost all employees are "at the mercy" of "some supervisor".

Good secretaries tend to get paid more than bad secretaries. Who decides who the good secretaries are? "Some supervisor".
Good paralegals tend to get paid more than bad paralegals. Again, "some supervisor" makes the determination of who the good ones are.

So why is a system that works for almost every other kind of employee somehow magically inapplicable to the teaching profession?

Many teachers (the good ones) do indeed deserve to have their salaries tripled. I've known some excellent teachers who should be earning *more* than triple their current salaries. But the bad teachers, the uninspiring ones who just go through the motions and make their subject boring, should have their pay *reduced*.

[LucasD]

217. Amazing....

My wife is a high school English teacher. She has a bachelor's degree and is slowly working on getting her master's degree.

She worked in an inner city school for a couple of years, until my fear for her safety convinced her to apply at other schools.

She now works at a school about 10 miles outside of the inner city school district.

She is a very good teacher and a very tough, street savvy woman, yet the students and the job have driven her to tears
on more than one occasion.

I would like to see Bill gross $32,000 a year, pay taxes and insurance out of that $32,000, be called a bitch when students
don't like their grades, or an asshole when parents don't understand why their lazy-ass children are failing his class.
I would also like to see Bill get home from a day like that and then spend another six to eight hours grading papers.

I know there are teachers out there who make $100,000 a year, but most do not, and they put up with a lot of shit for a
miserable wage.

[Goblinmonger]

218. Gates is just bitter that he's losing the war to Google.

Gates can pucker up his privileged lips and kiss my ass.