ENOUGH "Remove the TSA!", already! We're feeding a GOP meme by demanding they stop using scanners

[leveymg]

My bet is that the right-wing hopes Obama caves on this, and we get a plane blown up as a result.

Are the GOP and the Teapots that cynical? You betya.

One of the more convincing arguments against the scanners is that they're ineffective at detecting explosives secreted in body cavities. Here's the thing - there's only a limited amount of explosives that can fit inside the human body.

Just a few ounces. The human body, as anyone who's watched an old war movie knows -- Sarge throws himself on the grenade, saving the rest of the platoon -- is really good at cushioning an explosive blast.

It would be a bloody mess, but (probably) not enough to take down a commercial airliner. That's why the current scanners are effective - they do detect explosives strapped outside someone's body (under their clothes) in larger amounts, enough to blow a hole in the side of an aircraft.

This is a terrible, runaway non-issue. We shouldn't be wasting the Lame Duck session on this. We only have a few weeks to get refocused and demand the Democratic leadership finally do something while we still have a super-majority.

[lib2DaBone]

1. We are demanding that they remove the TSA......the whole lot of the creepy bastards....

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. NO we are not

just some of the equipment.

You think Xe will not use these things? Or oh Wakenhut?

Will that make it better?

[Catherina]

33. Yes we are. Don't know who you speak for but WE in my circle are demanding that.

Precisely that. Enough bullshit acquiescence.

You want to cave, then cave, but drop the WE shit.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. +1

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I am surrendering to the point of NOT FLYING

look, like it or not we actually have better security. They NEED TO DROP THE BULLSHIT, defined as scatter machines, and gropes, BUT YOU STILL NEED SOME SECURITY. Like it or not planes are SOFT TARGETS. SO you prefer Wackenhut use the machines and the do the gropes? Because THAT is what will happen if TSA is disbanded. IT will be your local mall rent-a-cops, got it?

By the way, I will give you a very concrete example that you might get. BEFORE 9.11 I managed to get a six inch blade on board an American Airlines Plane. Granted, in my capacity as an EMT. IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED... and in Tijuana it did NOT happen.

[lib2DaBone]

2. dupe

[Kali]

3. yes because even if you agree with "them"

over an issue like civil liberties, you shouldn't do or say anything about it because, well because they are "them" ya know?

[LaurenG]

4. No we aren't and they need to come up with another plan, period. nt

[Me.]

5. Speak For Yourself Only

Chertoff forced them on everyone without mentioning that he has a piece of the business. Israeli security says they and the pat down don't work and I for one am fed up with having invasive nonsense shoved down our throats so some Con, like Chertoff, can profit.

[leveymg]

7. Why do you only believe the Israelis? Neither country has lost an airliner in a decade.

I keep on hearing this argument. Do you really want to be interrogated before boarding a flight?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. So you feel more threatened by being asked

Did you pack your bags?

Did somebody else touch them?

Have they been under your control at all times?

You prefer sexual battery instead...

Okie dokie, I guess you are that afraid. Have a good day, and at least bring flowers and champagne to the date.

[Me.]

18. Those Are Close To The Questions They Ask At The Post Office

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yes and they used to be standard in US Airports

people who feel threatened by this should stay away from the Post Office as well.

The trick is in the training you give the questioner and... making eye contact.

[JVS]

34. I thought those questions were designed to get people to legally implicate themselves...

as being the actual possessors of any contraband that may be found. I didn't realize they were about making people seem nervous. I find it a little funny because I flew not all that long ago with a bag that had been packed by both my mother and myself and I kind of hesitated when asked. They didn't seem bothered by it. Nor did they seem bothered on another flight when in response to "are you carrying anything for anyone" I told them that I had a jacket and boots that were being brought to a friend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. hmm no, they came from an effort to keep

things that go boom off...

Well, not things, but to see if as you said, you are way too nervous.

Of course I was asked this in Mexico City, I'm having hot flashes... one of the markers is... well sweating... good thing I took extra time. They opened my luggage and checked it. So be it.

[Me.]

15. I Do Give Them Creds

They maintain without putting their citizens through all the nonsense we have/are put through. And all the restrictions are only based on what has already been tried they add in more rest4rictions. I guess they think that a ploy which has already failed will be the most popular. And as far as trusting the Israelis vs. someone like Chertoff, I'd say hands down as far as I'm concerned. I'm really ticked that the machine issue was forced on us so he could line his pockets.

[dflprincess]

25. The Israelis have not even had a security breach in 8 years

we've had at least 3. The "shoe bomber", the "underwear bomber" and whatever you want to name the stunt that left us unable to bring more than 3 ounces of any one liquid though security.

The Israeli security expert Olbermann had on quite clearly thought we're idiots when he talked about the reaction to the "shoe bomber" being that everyone takes their shoes off.

While there have been attempts, the only successful hijacking of an El Al jet occurred in 1968.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. And they had a perimeter breach in 2002

here we drive by the airport in many a cases. Some of our airports are surprisingly easy to breach as well.

Think of any urban airport... and hotels...

[Subdivisions]

37. What part of these are Chertoff's doing don't you understand? HOW MANY FUCKING

TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SEE THE SAME OLD CIRCLE OF ELITISTS FUCKING US FOR EVERYTHING WE'RE WORTH BEFORE PEOPLE GET IT???

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. +1. nt

[somone]

6. We don't need Chertoff's porno-scan cancer machines

There is a reason pilots are afraid of them.

[leveymg]

10. You get a larger dose of radiation by flying at 35,000 feet.

Pilots might have a real concern, but not the average traveler, we are told. I've seen no convincing evidence the scanners are really dangerous.

[roseBudd]

17. And the reason pilots don't like them could be small penises, flabby buttocks or "love handles"

I suspect the squeamishness of being seen naked has much to do with a majority of folks wished they look better naked.

[katandmoon]

22. Maybe they just don't want to have their privacy egregiously violated for no good reason?

Since these machines are useless for the purpose they're being sold to us for. Kind of like Obama's war in Afghanistan, come to think of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. So let me get this straight

this man or woman will fly your plane. In many a cases he or she will be armed...

oh did I mention they are flying well loaded MISSILES...

Need I point Mr. O'Brian that we proles are having problem with the cognitive dissonance at your statement... or are you talking personally here?

Signed, WINSTON.

[liberal N proud]

8. Being sexually molested at the airport is not a non-issue

We tolerated the hassles of taking our shoes and belts off and and traveling with our 3oz of shit in a quart baggie while putting all our valuables in a tub and walk away while they move down the belt. But being felt up and probed is beyond obscene. We arrest people for doing just that everyday.

Next thing you know the TSA will advertise to hire pedophiles because they know all the right places to probe.

The right is just jumping on this band wagon because either a) they are pissed off too; or b) they see some political gain in this. But either way, something has to change, we can't continue to travel like this.

[krabigirl]

9. Sorry, i think the porno scanners and the groping should go away.

Along with Bush's creation, the tsa.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. My you really are not up to date with modern explosives

and I will leave at that.

[sally cat]

14. If the GOP said "don't jump off a cliff" would you take the opposite view?

[lise]

16. LOL sallycat...

sounds like s/he *might* do just that.

Glad I don't have to check in with the GOP to know where I should stand on issues near and dear.

Thank God for small favors I guess.

[glen123098]

20. Sometimes the GOP may be right.

Whats right is right, and I could care less what position the GOP says. Saying the GOP agrees with me, will not change my view on individual rights. This post is pure fear mongering. This kind of fear mongering is what got us into Iraq.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

21. Time to say NO ! to all this bullshit, we Americans need to

grow a spine. That should be the real message.

[TexasObserver]

23. No, telling those who find it intrusive to shush is a GOP meme.

[somone]

26. Amen to that

"If you've got nothing to hide, then what do you have to fear from a little cavity search"

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Uh no sorry this strip searching and groping is bullshit. nt

[Bonobo]

29. You get my vote for most wrong-headed post of the week!

It is not a non-issue.

[backscatter712]

30. Just one thing: The Keystone Gropers of the TSA haven't caught one terrorist.

Not one.

So if the TSA does take some Valium and goes back to metal-detectors and back-of-the-hand pat-downs, the likelihood of a terrorist incident doesn't change a bit.

[TheKentuckian]

31. Who gives a fuck with the TeaPubliKlans think?

If the stopped clock factor kicks in, it kicks in.

Being the land of the free demands we be the home of the brave.

I don't want to live like this and I certainly don't want to live any further down the slope this slips to.

[notesdev]

32. Let me get this straight

Even though some of us have been yearning for years to roll back this and other parts of the PATRIOT Act, we should take a pass on doing that because we are finally getting GOP-side support on a policy issue?

Are you aware that in all these years, with all the many billions spent on the TSA, with all the civil liberties transgressions that have followed in its wake, that the TSA has never actually caught a terrorist?

[Subdivisions]

36. +1000! n/t

[downeyr]

38. A-Fucking Men!

I'm sorry, but the very idea that we should abet something that is in direct violation of our rights simply because we don't like the people who are agreeing with us is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. We need to capitalize on that support in order to get something on par with sexual harassment stopped. Not everything is about politics, god damn it.

[JVS]

40. Your post demonstrates how the republicans flank us and leave us in the position of defending...

the horrible shit they started.

:thumbsdown:

[piedmont]

42. Your "most convincing argument" relies on MOVIES as evidence?

A typical bowel movement is 300-500 grams. The "shoe-bomber" bomb had 100 grams of PETN, and was considered to be enough to bring down a plane. PETN is also 160% as powerful per unit of weight than TNT (the classic WWII grenades used around 60 grams of TNT). The 2 inches or so of a body that the shockwave will rip through on its way out doesn't matter worth a gnat on the windshield. We have to do things differently to counter this threat or the next step will be cavity searches for all.

[grahamhgreen]

43. Remove the pervert machines and grope rooms. It's un American, unethical, creepy and weird.

[Odin2005]

44. Yes, because liberty and privacy are such minor issues.

:eyes:

[MadHound]

45. Submit for the good of Obama,

Wow, now that's an extreme that I would ever see around here.

[LawnLover]

46. They should remove the scanners

and they should stop the ridiculous screening that they do. Let's face it, if some terrorist somewhere wants to attack us, there's nothing stopping them on the railways, buses, in buildings, etc. It's all a big joke.

[avaistheone1]

47. I don't feel like being treated as a criminal when I enter an airport is a small issue.

I don't want some stranger's hands groping my body nor do I want to be radiated by their porno scanners.

I am an American and I expect to be treated like one - not like some reprobate.

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. If you have kids, let their little genitals be fondled, then tell me it's a non-issue. nt