Michael Vick, Dave's Killer Bread, and repentance

[Missy Vixen]

Even those who are not sports fans know the story of Michael Vick. Vick is prominent in the news this week because of his record-breaking performance on Monday Night Football. A columnist on ESPN makes the point we should "forgive" Vick for his abuse and torture of the animals in his care. After all, he's "served his time".

When I read his story, one name popped out at me. Let's face it, Dave Dahl of Dave's Killer Bread was probably consigned to the scrap heap by everyone he knew at one time. He was incarcerated, re-offended, got sent to prison again, and everyone in his life must have wondered if he'd ever turn his life around. He did.

Dave bakes the best bread I have ever eaten in my life. It is so good that I've bought loaves for those we know who scoffed and said, "It can't be that great." Even more than something great to eat, the best part of buying that loaf of bread is the knowledge that Dave grew his business, and has 140 employees as of last summer. A lot of the guys he hired are ex-cons, and trying to turn their lives around, too. He's offering them the opportunity to make a fresh start.

Obviously, the two men aren't the same, but the idea is the same. Instead of going back to a multi-million dollar, high profile, public career, Dahl decided to start over, one loaf at a time. He started out small, but his business grows and grows. He's had his fair share of media coverage around the country, but if our experience with him is any indication, he remains humble and thoughtful. The people who buy his bread may have been curious because of his story, but they came back because he makes an excellent product. He also dedicated himself to helping others.

So, what signals repentance to you when you consider the life of someone who's really messed up? Is it what they say, or what they do?

If you'd like more info about Dave and his crazy great bread, please go to http://www.daveskillerbread.com/.

[flvegan]

1. Michael Vick regrets getting caught.

He has no remorse for what he did to those dogs. I don't care if Vick is a NFL quarterback, a nurse, an accountant, a pilot. I don't care how much money he makes or doesn't. I hate him for what he did, and that he doesn't care. He's a selfish prat, and I hope someone snaps him in half on the field...on tv.

[Missy Vixen]

6. I hope you all get Dave's bread in FL

It's vegan. ;-)

I can't figure out how anyone can have any regard for Michael Vick that has ever been lucky enough to have the love of a dog.

I don't know what I would do if anyone ever mistreated our Moosie. Yeah, he's my baby, all 90 pounds of him.

[flvegan]

10. Wait a minute...it's vegan?

Okay, I made an assumption about the bread-yum. I'm off to check your link.

Thanks!

Also, I admit that I am indeed biased. I've had too many fight/bait dogs come through here (got 2 right now, in house) and I have a special loathing for his kind.

[hlthe2b]

14. Exactly. I do not believe for one minute Vick gives a damn about

those dogs and what he did--only that he faced consequences for doing so. He feels VERY sorry for himself.

I believe in sincere repentance. The OP relates a story that sounds very consistent with that. Vick, on the other hand was "repentance" in exchange for a multi-million dollar NFL career. Those who believe it to be the same have a lot to think about, IMO.

[flvegan]

15. I know it for a fact.

I know that lots of folks consider me a "militant" on animal issues, but I could be convinced to let some bygones be bygones if certain criteria were met.

He'll never reach for that criteria. Not that he cares what I think, nor would I ever expect him to. I'm just saying I'd be open to letting it go.

[JanMichael]

37. I remember when we adopted Scout, our little Jack mix

and I asked in the lounge for advice on how to handle jack russell personalities...I think that was 6 years ago. Sadly, we didn't listen to your advice to go to training, and worse, we did everything the dog whisperer said not to do.

So, now she's taking Second Morning Nap on her favorite blankie on the couch (the blanket we got as a Christmas present with instructions not to let the animals get hair on it)... which is what she takes after breakfast in bed, quick 1st nap, and playtime.

Yeah, she's rotten to the core. :) And we like it like that.

[DiverDave]

20. And you know this how?

I just love it when people are so convinced that they know something...
The guy spent time in PRISON! lost MILLIONS and was on the verge of professional suicide.

I *think* ( notice how I dont use any "I know what he is thinking" words?) that he is grateful there are less people like YOU in the world.

I believe in 2nd chances ,and by all reports, he is taking full advantage of his.


So, how bout you climb down off your high horse and walk a mile in HIS shoes?

You might get a little perspective.
Oh and before you flame me, I do believe what he did was despicable and he deserved the jail time.
But, he is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

[Missy Vixen]

24. You might want to ask flvegan what he does in his spare time

He does pit bull rescues. I've been here 10 years. He was talking about it on DU several years before we all knew about Vick's little hobby.

It takes a special person to care about an abandoned or mistreated dog enough to take him or her into his home.

There are others here who can talk about flvegan's dedication to pit bull rescue in greater detail than I am. One thing's for sure, he's walked more than a mile in those shoes, for years now.

>You might get a little perspective.<

I'll take flvegan's perspective. He puts his time, his energies and his money where his mouth is.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

38. I did not know that about flvegan. He has my utmost

respect. I have been involved in dog rescue for about 10 years now - the cute, fluffy types of dogs that are fairly easy to place in new homes. PB rescue is whole other level and I greatly admire those who do it. I've collaborated with some here in the northeast on transports. My first transport ever was for a deaf pitbull who was going to a foster home experienced with deaf dogs.

[JanMichael]

39. I love animal rescue folks! We got lucky with Scout-- she never made it

to a rescue group. She was just a stray on the way to the pound/rescue. If she had, we would not have been able to get her, because most Jack rescues think they need yards. However, we have found her to be the perfect condo dog-- even though we do have to walk her up to five times a day to help lose some of that "terrior energy" they are famous for. She is also small enough to be able to get up to high speeds chasing a ball indoors-- hilarious!

[flvegan]

25. My "high horse" really?

Damn, you're stupid.

How do I know something? I dunno. I'm good friends with his handlers when he was "working" for HSUS. Now, I guess that his gratefulness that "there are less people like (ME) in the world" seems a bit thin.

OMG, prison! MILLIONS lost!! I wouldn't walk a mile in his shoes because his shoes are toxic. He's a worthless sack of shit. As far as being a human being, his treatment matters little. Your apologies aside, thanks.

Good luck to you and those 2nd chances. I'm sure that if Bush, Cheney, et al get a chance, you'll be right there. Giving those "2nd chances"

Pathetic redefined.

[shireen]

27. interesting ... what did your friends at HSUS have to say, if it's OK to share? nt

[northernlights]

31. waah. professional suicide.

:nopity:



The face of a vicktim.

[superduperfarleft]

35. I'd love to walk a mile in Vick's shoes.

A convicted felon being allowed to make millions of dollars throwing a ball around straight out of prison? Poor guy... :sarcasm:

I'd think a lot of other ex-cons would love to walk a mile in Vick's shoes as well, especially the ones who had their lives ruined for much lesser crimes.

[dhill926]

22. I agree with every word you wrote.....n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. +1

:thumbsup:

[11 Bravo]

43. And you know he doesn't care because ...

I despise what Vick did, but the threads suddenly re-appearing are interesting, to say the least.

[flvegan]

45. His handlers

during his brief stint working with the HSUS weren't shy (in private) discussing him. I'll leave it at that.

[gateley]

2. It's what they do. And I LOVE Dave's bread and his story! nt

[Missy Vixen]

9. We need to go to Costco this weekend

We're running low on Good Seed.

It's fabulous, and it's good for us. :woohoo:

[Blue_In_AK]

13. The Good Seed is the best . Definitely my favorite.

[knowbody0]

3. I love Dave's bread

nice to now know his story, thanks

[TwilightGardener]

4. So...what was Dave's offense?

[Missy Vixen]

7. I think mostly robberies

He never killed anyone.

He says his life turned around when he was treated for depression, among other things.

http://www.daveskillerbread.com/story.shtml

When we met him, I joked that I never thought I'd be a baker groupie. We'd be proud to host him and his employees in our home, anytime.

[pipoman]

11. I certainly hope he didn't kill anyone or

his website domain is completely inappropriate.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. Great story. thanks for sharing. and BTW, I DETEST Michael Vick.

[emilyg]

8. I admire Dave - Vick - not at all.

[Blue_In_AK]

12. Dave's Killer Bread is AWESOME!

We just started getting it up here a couple months ago, and we can't get enough of the stuff. (The shrews that like to come in here during the winter like it too. We have to encase the bread in Tupperware to keep them out of it.)

[TorchTheWitch]

16. FUCK Vick

He's a sick demented fuck that ENJOYED torturing dogs. He can rot in hell football player or no.

[AndrewP]

44. 100% agree

[flying rabbit]

17. +1 for Dave's killer bread. n/t

[KT2000]

18. Dave came to our Costco!!

which is really out of the way in NW Washington state.
He now has lots of customers here!

Someone else who is impressing me is Chris Brown. He is taking his court ordered community service and therapy very seriously and he has kept to himself while he pulls himself together. Personally I am rooting for him.

[HuckleB]

19. We've been eating Dave's Killer since it showed up at the Portland Farmer's Market in 2005.

It's great stuff, and Dave is a great guy.

I don't see any way to compare Dave to Vick, however. Dave has done more good per capita than Vick could ever do, even if he gave away his millions.

[Missy Vixen]

21. This is my point

One guy thinks 23 speeches at a Humane Society makes up for the destruction of loyal, loving animals that would have died for him in a heartbeat. I don't believe there was any sincerity in his "apology".

One guy thinks the world doesn't owe him, he works hard, and now he's doing what he loves and helping other people at the same time. I'm sure Dave isn't perfect, but wow, his determination to make his life different is one of the more impressive things I can imagine. I LOVE the fact he's giving ex-cons a job. Those folks have a tough row to hoe at best. It's a hand up, not a hand out, to quote an oft-used cliche.

[the other one]

23. When did Vick choose dog fighting?

He grew up in an enviroment that saw dog fighting as entrrtainment. The Feds busted Vick on gambling charges; the state and local authorities have declined charge Vick with animal cruelty charges. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it cultural. It also means that it is possible that when Vick says he is sorry that he really does mean it. But it seems that there are some self-riteous folks even here at DU who know what is really going on in someone elses heart. I would ask of you how you know Vick isn't sorry. Because he is a well paid athlete? Because he is black?

[shireen]

28. animal abuse is cultural?

you must be joking.

cruelty is not cultural. its unadulterated evil.

[superduperfarleft]

34. It can be both cultural and evil, you know.

I think Vick is a vile piece of shit, but that doesn't mean that dogfighting isn't a culture in some communities.

[shireen]

42. you may have a point ...

i remember, when i was very young, my family visited Thailand. One of the events organized by the hotel for tourists was a cock fight.

It made me uncomfortable. I could not understand why anyone would want to watch two animals hurt each other. I wonder how many of the foreign tourists in the audience felt the same.

[Missy Vixen]

30. How do you know he is sorry?

We don't see much evidence of it. I was also amused to see on the crawl at ESPN last night that Commissioner Goodell is "talking or texting" with Vick several times a week. In other words, Goodell has a heavy financial and PR investment in Vick's "recovery" as well.

>I would ask of you how you know Vick isn't sorry. Because he is a well paid athlete? Because he is black?<

Again, would you feel the same about Vick and his repentance if he was a ditch digger, or worked at the local 7-11?

The "cultural" argument doesn't wash, either. Would we say that slavery was appropriate because it was "cultural", for instance? Washington State has laws preventing animal cruelty, but I remember reading when Pasado's Law was passed that it was the most stringent in the nation. Vick was probably not charged with animal cruelty because the gambling charges were easier to prosecute.

[JanMichael]

33. Because the director of the sanctuary that took 1/2 the dogs in has written

a statement that says that not one person, including Vick himself, has contacted them about donations or even just to find out how the dogs are doing. Not one. You would think his agent would maybe just call? Donate a hundred bucks for food? Something?

[Withywindle]

46. Um, he chose it when he became extremely rich.

Maybe that was a form of entertainment in his "culture"--but assuming that poor people in the inner city can never do better than that for entertainment is insulting to all the billions of people all over the world who grew up in the bad part of town and still never found the torture of other sentient beings to be fun to watch.

Do you think there are no people anywhere who grew up in the ghetto seeing dog fights as kids--and were so horrified by that they became activists against it when they grew up? They exist, I assure you. I've met several.

When Michael Vick became rich enough to buy up his whole childhood neighborhood, he had a whole world full of entertainment options open to him. He could have traveled anywhere, he could have bought the toys for any kind of adrenaline kick (that risked his OWN body), he could even have saved up for a private space flight...and he chose THIS?!?


Really?!? Do you actually know anyone who grew up poor? Most of the people I know who did have fantasies about security and travel and really lux places to live and nice clothes and cars and jewelry and in some cases, hookers and blow. I just wonder about the kind of person who thinks, "Wow, I have so much more money than I ever dreamed of in my youth. I think I'll spend it torturing dogs to death."

I can't think of anything more classist and racist than the idea that this should be let off the hook as somehow "normative" for his "culture." Do you sincerely believe this is something that ALL poor AA people in Newport News would do if they got lots of money? Do you really think there are no people in his old neighborhood right now who care about animals and would thoroughly enjoy kicking his ass if they got the chance?

[Greyhound]

26. This seems to be a false equivalency.

What were Dave's crimes? All I've found are some drug offenses, none of which are even in the same league as Vick's ongoing torture-for-profit enterprise. Further, Mr. Dahl not only professes repentance but, unlike Vick, has consistently acted on it.

[stevedeshazer]

29. Well, I can't forgive either of them. But they both deserve another chance.

I have no interest in the NFL or its games, but the MVick story remains gruesome.

Killer Dave has his story, too.

I just had some Rockin' Rye toast and I don't watch NFL football, so Dave is more useful to me and my society than Vick.

Your results may vary.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Are you suggesting that Bread Dave abused animals?

It seems that you are. You do not say what Dave's past is. If he is not a former animal abuser, I think you are doing him a diservice by not being clear about that. I'd not by dog killer bread.

[Missy Vixen]

41. Oh, I see

I provided a link to Dave's story further up the thread, but it seems there are those who are unable to click on it.

Here it is again.

http://www.daveskillerbread.com/story.shtml

Dave was incarcerated (IIRC) for drug offenses and robbery. He didn't kill anyone. If you go to his website, you'll see he's currently advertising a fundraising effort for dog rescue on his front page.

Furthermore, I was drawing a comparison between someone who is supposedly "rehabilitated" without any external proof of change or remorse for his actions, and someone else who took the chance to change his life and did so in a spectacular manner. It's unfortunate that there are those here who either don't comprehend what they read, or can't be bothered to do thirty seconds of research on a previously provided link.

[Zhade]

40. I wouldn't cry if vick were mauled to death by wild dogs.

It would be poetic justice. Fuck that cruel-hearted shitbag and anyone who supports him.

[LWolf]

47. It's what they do, of course. Dave? Great bread.

Great example of personal reform.

Vick? Not so much.