From The Class War Front: Dean Baker - 'Why My Center-Left Friends are Wrong' - FDL

[WillyT]

Compromise on Social Security and Medicare? Why My Center-Left Friends are Wrong
By: Dean Baker - FDL
Saturday November 20, 2010 12:46 pm

<snip>

In recent days several center-left blogger/columnists have suggested that progressives should be happy to cut a deal now on Social Security and other issues related to the budget. The argument is that the cuts being put forward by the commissions are not that onerous, they don’t involve privatization, and we could be facing much worse in the future.

While politics always requires compromise, this position misreads the economic and political landscape in four important ways.

1) The problem of the moment is unemployment. This really is a disaster for large segments of the population. That is not just a talking point.

2) The bad guy in this story is Wall Street. The financial sector is a cancer on the economy. This is precisely the moment when we should be on the attack, not running for shelter.

3) Health care costs are the real problem. This is not cheap rhetoric; health care is what needs to be fixed.

4) The overwhelming majority of the non-pundit population agrees with us.

The current economic situation really is a disaster for tens of millions of people across the country.

More than 25 million people are unemployed, underemployed, or have given up looking for work altogether. For most of these people, every day is a struggle to support their family and hold onto their home. The projections do not show any substantial improvement in this situation for years.

The priority for policy must be getting people back to work. This means increasing the deficit for the next several years, not reducing it. Cheap talk from politicians about fiscal responsibility may get votes, but it will not put people back to work. In the current situation, we will need larger deficits (or work sharing) to generate jobs. Remember, these people are unemployed not because they did anything wrong, but because people like Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke and others in policymaking positions messed up on their jobs.

Following directly off this point, it is amazing how right in front of our own eyes, the Wall Street gang has managed to divert the public’s attention from the wreckage caused by their greed and incompetence to the “entitlement problem” (i.e. Social Security and Medicare). This is the moment where we should be looking to restructure and downsize the financial industry.

The financial reform bill was a net positive, but it was not nearly enough to do the job. Profits and bonuses in the financial sector are as high as ever. Remember, finance is an intermediate good, like trucking. We aren’t made better off by having more finance in the same way that more trucks on the road don’t make us better off. A large financial sector is prima facie evidence of an inefficient financial sector. We should be taxing the financial sector both to reduce the resources wasted in this sector (and the ridiculously high incomes) and to raise revenue for the government. This is just common sense; even the IMF is now arguing this position: http://www.imf.org/external/np/g20/pdf/062710b.pdf

The third point is that there really is no deficit problem. The problem is health care. That is not just rhetoric; this is what the data show. In 1980, non-interest spending was 18.8 percent of GDP. President Obama’s budget projects non-interest spending at 18.6 percent of GDP in 2020. This means that in 40 years spending has actually fallen slightly as a share of GDP. The story of an out of control federal budget is a complete fabrication.

<snip>

More: http://my.firedoglake.com/deanbaker/2010/11/20/compromise-on-social-security-and-medicare-why-my-center-left-friends-are-wrong/

:kick:

[madrchsod]

1. surrounding himself with the very people who created the disaster was his choice

to bad we have to pay for it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. Also too bad is that he doesn't seem to care that we are being made to pay for his choices.

:puke:

[mzmolly]

2. May I ask who suggests compromise on these issues?

:shrug:

[WillyT]

4. He Did Not Provide A Link...

I'm curious too...

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

5. It seems like a bit of a strawman

at this point.

[WillyT]

6. Maybe He Wanted To Focus On His Points, And Not Personalities...

Anywho... I have no problem trusting Dean Baker, and I wish Obama would put him in his cabinet... kitchen or otherwise.

:shrug:

:hi:

[mzmolly]

9. I tend to resent the constant assertion that there is some boogeyman

pulling stings for the Democratic Party. Articles like this, tend to bolster a bogus mindset. Yes, we'll probably have three Democrats who support such a compromise, but it's not the majority by a long shot.

[WillyT]

10. Doesn't Sound Like He's Talking About Politicians To Me...

"In recent days several center-left blogger/columnists have suggested that progressives should be happy to cut a deal now on Social Security and other issues related to the budget."

[mzmolly]

11. Ah. Regardless, I'd like to know who

he's talking about.

[inna]

12. Fuck, me too. Anyone who wants to comromise on that is certainly not

"cener-left" and most certainly is NOT my friend.

Let me know if you ever find out, OK?

[mzmolly]

18. Is it my job to find out? Or, is the the job of the author of the piece

to say who he's talking about?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

27. "Let me know if you ever find out, OK?"

You were suggesting that I'd have some way of finding out, that wasn't made clear in the OP. I simply noted the burden of proof, lies with the author.

Given your tone, I'd say I'm not the one with a reading comprehension problem. From the user rules:

"Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum."

Suggesting someone has a reading comprehension problem is a personal attack. A lazy, tired one at that. I hope you'll find a new and exciting way to make yourself look bad, going forward. I'm quite bored with the reading comprehension thing.

[laughingliberal]

14. The President said, "We have to make tough choices." I don't think that "we' includes fat cats. nt

[mzmolly]

17. The assumption that "we have to make tough choices"

is about anyone but the wealthy, is a pretty weak defense of the OP not providing enough info.

[laughingliberal]

22. We shall see who he stands with when it all comes down. I'm not encouraged. nt

[mzmolly]

28. If he stands with us, will you celebrate his stance? Or will it be ignored

until we have another opportunity to complain? I'm not speaking to YOU per se, when I ask this question. I'm speaking to the negative contingent on DU that doesn't acknowledge anything positive about the President.

[laughingliberal]

30. If he stands with us, I will celebrate his stance.

His decision to create this commission and appoint 2 people known to have no love of SS as the 'bipartisan' chairs is not encouraging, though.

There should never have been any quarter given to the deficit hawks who seem to think Americans living as the people of Argentina did in the 90's is a wonderful idea. I guess it was for the oligarchs and that is whose side the deficit hawks are on.

I sincerely hope the President stands against cutting SS but I can't think he didn't know exactly what kind of crap Simpson and Bowles would be pushing. Their desires have been well know for decades.

[mzmolly]

31. It depends on why they were appointed. Were they appointed so that we

would have a clear contrast in positions? So that tax cuts for the wealthy would be viewed as more appealing than the alternatives?

Also, I remember when Howard Dean suggested raising the age of SS. I disagreed with his position on this. And he's sense changed his stance. However, certainly no one here would have a problem with Dean being on the commission.

[laughingliberal]

33. So, another chess game? I was one of the people who thought he was letting the teabaggers discredit

themselves so he could come out swinging in support of the public option. We saw how that went.

Whatever Dean's position in the past may have been, if he supports cutting SS now he's off my list of those I believe stand with us. It is all about policy for me and it always has been. I don't have the luxury of supporting politicians according to how much I personally like them. My survival hangs on public policy towards our social safety net.

If President Obama stands with us, I'll stand with him. If he gives one penny of our SS money over to the oligarchs, I do not stand with him. Not that I guess that worries him. I'm just part of the great, invisible forgotten mass that once believed we had a shot in this country. With no money or power I doubt he's the least concerned where I stand (or sit or sleep or anything else).

[mzmolly]

36. Of course not. He's obviously a stealth Republican.

In all seriousness, we needn't choose between the two. There is such a thing as political strategy. He ran saying he wanted to hear from everyone. Apparently he meant it.

[laughingliberal]

39. Well, he can hear from anyone he wants. It's who he agrees with in the end that concerns me. nt

[mzmolly]

40. Me as well. I wish Republicans hadn't created such a mess for the President to deal with.

If only we'd had Gore and/or Kerry vs. Bush/Cheney for the past decade.

[jotsy]

41. I wonder if Dr. Paul Hochfield would agree with your assessment.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4091797>

If all opinions are so welcome, why did he have to crash the event?

I tire of the theater we call politics, I want governance that speaks to the democratic principle and take note of the substance of content as opposed to the language in labeling.

[mzmolly]

42. Obama said he'd entertain opinions from Republican and Democratic

lawmakers. Not, host a dinner party for every US citizen with a beef.

[jotsy]

43. Maybe it's just me.

But I'm not sure I'd characterize a veteran emergency room physician who just spent a month leading a cross country caravan as a typical citizen with a beef.

Have you a link to corroborate your assertion that those are all he would enter into a dialogue with on the topic?

I don't care who is hosted at dinner, when it comes to drafting legislation, I find the opinion of professionals in the trenches more valid than an electorate who rely on lobbyists serving industry, not the people, to draft favorable and forgiving language into the letter of the law.

[mzmolly]

44. I don't have a specific link to the many quotes indicating that Obama

ran on a post partisan platform. It's part of the reason I supported Edwards prior to the nomination.

[Hannah Bell]

32. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9603147

[mzmolly]

37. David Brooks is an all out conservative.

eom

[inna]

7. The very existence of that monstrosity of the "commission" is class warfare in action.

It's incredible that that ultra-reactionary anti-working class garbage has become the reality of the debate. Sick, dangerous fucks like Simpson and Peterson should be shunned, not brought into the mainstream and given positions of prominence.

But I guess, someone had to do it; Wall street greed has no limit and Nixon went to China, after all. What's amazing, though, is how the very essence of the public debate has been subverted, and how the goal posts shifted (dramatically to the right), while the majority of the clueless public has been mostly oblivious... like the proverbial frog. Oh well.

[Zenlitened]

8. Totally, totally agree:

"The very existence of that monstrosity of the "commission" is class warfare in action.

It's incredible that that ultra-reactionary anti-working class garbage has become the reality of the debate. Sick, dangerous fucks like Simpson and Peterson should be shunned, not brought into the mainstream and given positions of prominence."

[WillyT]

13. Me Too !!!

Agreed !!!

:kick:

[laughingliberal]

15. +1000 nt

[mzmolly]

19. I don't think goal posts have moved. I think real differences

have been highlighted.

[laughingliberal]

16. Only one problem, Dean. Once someone supports this shit, I don't think we can credibly call them...

center 'left' anymore.

K&R

[TheKentuckian]

21. It does to put one firmly into the right wing, doesn't it?

[laughingliberal]

23. Yep. nt

[Individualist]

24. Exactly!

[pretzel4gore]

20. the post war division of europe, the 'cold war', vastly empowered the capitalist pig

aka the 'West' or the 'allies'! See Prescot Bush. The Revolution, in the form of the doomed USSR, (ands of course Asia, Africa, 3rd World etc) lost millions of people in murder campaigns that are still going on today (though the enemy is now 'islamic' terrorism and not worker socialism, nudge wink, you silly hippies! hahaha)
We celebrate 20th anniversary of the fall of Berlin Wall, and mister pig passes gas and giggles as the human race Twists helplessly in the wind- not realizing the REVOLUTION was what our fathers were fighting for the whole time... In Charles Dickens, there's a story where a 12 year old boy was sold, to a passerby, an old white guy. Coach Fagin owned a dozen kids, Oliver North was one of them, if i recall!! In French colonial 'Nam, a ten year old child could be bought on streets of Saigon for pennies (i recall a merchant sailor telling me how in the 50's young girls were for sale for only 1/2 a bar of soap in pre-revolutionary Havana harbour- a detail of poverty which must have pissed off the parents! LBJ began the 'War on Poverty' in USA during Vietnam war era, but notice how Mister Pig stole the idear and made it into the 'war on' drugs, then terror and whatever they think of next, as long as it aint ahem, poverty...lol)
The rightwing passes gas and giggles. The revolution was crushed. And the sad thing is no one even realizes it.

[laughingliberal]

26. +1000 nt

[mstinamotorcity]

29. It still would take some Americans

doing the thing that they fear most. Creating an economy that the top 2% does not control. It would mean taking their money out of their system and put it into a system to create jobs,business,and revenue. It would mean banning together and putting the greater good over profit. And whenever you tell people that they have fallen into a republican coma they just don't get it. Republicans have said what you want,say,earn,feel,listen to,watch,read,and in some cases think. And for those of us that know they are lying through their teeth its pretty hard to watch the American public that is still asleep!!!

[amborin]

34. K&R

[B Calm]

35. No such thing as center left, They're republicans pretending

to be on the left side of the fence!

[Mimosa]

38. How about the spending on the wars we can't afford?

That's a problem too.

[Better Believe It]

45. Kick