How effective is "stranger danger" and "inappropriate touching" teaching if

[Duer 157099]

it all gets disregarded at the airport?

What sort of mix message does this send to kids who are too young to appreciate the subtle differences between this "sanctioned" touching and real molestation?

How does a parent explain this new situation? Explaining how doctors and nurses were exempt was one thing--and not especially an easy feat anyway--but these strangers at the airport? Will kids now expect that anybody wearing a "security" costume are authorized to touch them?

It does bring up valid questions, imho.

[hlthe2b]

1. Pedophiles wearing uniforms in areas where children congregate......

A natural outcome of this whole debacle. If that thought doesn't strike intense fear in parents, I don't know what will. And yes, those few nay-saying DUers, go ahead and call me out as "sensational" or "hysterical" or whatever you wish. There are consequences to our being the compliant "good Germans"....

[kenny blankenship]

6. That's just the free labor market channeling people where their talents/inclinations would take them

An unproductive trait or unwanted behavior can find a productive, gainful, socially useful employment - given a division of labor that is sufficiently diverse and specialized. There's a certain kind of person needed for "enhanced interrogations", and there's a certain kind of person needed for "enhanced pat-downs". They aren't exactly the same kind of people, and they're both different in their own special ways from the average population. Aren't we lucky to live in a free enterprise system where such people can find their particular...um...niche?

[stray cat]

7. LOL!

[hlthe2b]

11. you find that prospect amusing?

[katnapped]

33. Nope you're not hysterical

I'd thought the same thing...gonna see fake "authority figures" wanting to put their hand down little Johhny or Sally's pants ("in the name of protecting America", of course).

[elleng]

2. I agree valid questions, and that's what parents are for,

to explain and discuss and teach our children. Happens every day.

[LisaL]

4. What are going to tell a young child about this?

You don't think trying to explain that to a young child could be very confusing for the child? Especially considering pat downs are done in public?

[elleng]

8. It might be confusing, and it is up to parents and teachers to ameliorate the confusion.

'Dear Tommy, we are going on an exciting trip, flying in an airplane, and these people, like police officers, want to be sure everyone is safe.'

[Duer 157099]

16. Holy cow.

You think equating violation of personal space with "safety" is NOT going to result in some serious confusion??? Really?

[elleng]

22. I guess it will, if the parent/teacher is confused

about the meaning of 'violation of personal space.'

'Holy cow' indeed.

[sally cat]

34. I hope you get an answer, specifically about the pat down touching and groping. But I doubt you will

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

3. That's just a minor subject ( no pun intended ), it's about rights

and freedom for all of us first.

[Safetykitten]

5. Explain it this way...

Honey, mommy and daddy are sorry that we waited till this to become enraged. We decided that wars, the dismantling of our economy, no rights for people that are well...."special", letting healthcare for only certain people pass, and many others that you do not understand were not worth it, so we kinda let it go, but now this man at the airport is going to check you for things that may make the trip not safe. We are so sorry honey that we have to do this, but mommy and daddy were not paying attention. We thought that those things were for other people.

[stray cat]

9. You should not let your children fly and teach them not to travel further than they can walk

[Radical Activist]

10. The same mixed message it sends when we tell them to look for uniformed police

when in danger.

[Fleshdancer]

23. Yep.

I always tell my daughter to look for another mommy with kids and to not blindly trust a stranger just because they where a uniform.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. Most stranger-danger educators, including law enforcement personnel...

actually instruct children to look for a woman with children and ask her for help rather than approach someone in uniform. I remember being surprised when a member of the local police department gave a seminar and told us that because I was raised back in the days we were told to find a cop if we got lost.

[alsame]

12. My brothers and sils are wrestling with this now in regard to my

nieces age 10 and 12.

Very valid questions, I agree with you.

[otohara]

13. Kids Under 12 Are Exempt

This keeps getting repeated on a site where it's members pride themselves on being informed.

[Duer 157099]

14. and yet I've already seen two videos

of kids younger than 12 being examined thusly by TSA. Go figure.

[boston bean]

18. Don't you think that person could provide us a link.

I too have seen children being searched.

[otohara]

27. Here

http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderby/2010/11/20/airport-security/

If you’re preparing to travel by plane to your Thanksgiving destination, surely you’ve heard about the Transportation Security Administration (TSA)’s controversial new pat-downs and body scanners.

Last week, Madeline wrote that some families are so fed up with the new invasive safety regulations that they’re calling on air travelers to opt out of the TSA’s full-body scans on Wednesday, November 24th and instead submit to enhanced pat downs — which will inevitably slow down travel on what’s traditionally the busiest travel day of the year.

I was also freaked out to read about the 3-year-old who was patted down by TSA agents after setting off the metal detector twice and the mom who said she was sexually assaulted during the enhanced pat-down she received. Makes me glad we’re not leaving town for Thanksgiving.

But if you are traveling with kids, the L.A. Times provides some helpful tips:

1. A child under 12 who opts out of the body scanner will undergo “a modified pat-down search.” Children over 12 who opt out of the body scanner get the regular pat-down. Citing security reasons, the TSA has declined to say what the modified pat-down entails.

2. If an alarm goes off during a screening (as with the aforementioned 3year-old), even children under 12 will be subject to a full pat-down.

3. To prepare kids, explain the procedures they may encounter “including the possibility that they may be touched by TSA personnel as part of a pat-down. Parents won’t necessarily be with their kids as they pass through the scanner or get patted down,” according to The Los Angeles Times.

4. You might also check out the TSA’s advanced imaging technology web page to show your kids what the full-body scan entails.

[LisaL]

30. You link does not say children under 12 are exempt from

either scanners or pat downs. Except children will undergo modified pat downs and TSA refuses to say what it means by "modified."
I think what you tried to post originally has been misunderstood?

[LisaL]

19. It's because children under 12 aren't exempt from pat downs.

They just get modified pat downs, whatever that means.

[otohara]

29. Obama Is Only Interested in Humiliating Travelers

that is his goal -

[LisaL]

17. The one that is unfinformed is you.

"Child pat-down: If a child is 12 or younger and unable to proceed through the body scanner alone or opts out, then he or she is subject to what the TSA calls "a modified pat-down" search. If the child is older than 12 and opts out of the scanner, he or she is subject to an "enhanced pat-down. " The TSA, citing security reasons, has not provided details on either type of pat-down. But the enhanced pat-down is widely understood to include closer examination of genital areas. It is unclear whether the modified pat-down includes the genital areas."
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/19/news/la-trb-tsa-scanners-20101119

[otohara]

32. Send The Kid Through the Scanner

Gawd almighty...

Those worried about safety of mini x-ray better get ready to not send their kids to a dentist, or a doctor if he breaks his arm, oh and don't be vaccinating them, cuz we all know how controversial those are.

Vaccine or Polio?

I would have preferred the vaccine had it been around.

[laundry_queen]

40. Please.

IT is well known the effects of multiple x-rays can be cumulative. My doctor in particular avoids x-rays if she can, although most dentists I've seen don't seem to care. What about people who are frequent travelers? Say someone flies once a week? That's a fuck of a lot of x-ray exposure over the course of a few years. Nobody here is arguing against needed x-rays as in the case of a broken arm (what a ridiculous assertion), just unnecessary ones that have not been proven to 'keep us safe' from terrorism.
And, with regards to minors, the OP has a valid point.
Besides, no need to bring vaccines into this. That's just baiting.

[sally cat]

36. Or lying.

[Fleshdancer]

20. Exempt? I thought it was a "modified" pat down, but from what I've read....

no one is exempt.

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/providence-tsa-patdowns-apply-to-all-travelers

"This is now mandatory for all travelers, even the elderly, children, and people with religious objections."

[LisaL]

21. No the children under 12 aren't exempt.

They aren't exempt from the scanners or the pat downs, except they are getting modified pat downs.
Whatever that means.

[Fleshdancer]

24. I think it means your parents have to strip your top off first

that's the only difference I could see. :grr:

[Fleshdancer]

15. Thank you for this OP

You have brought up all the reasons why I'm now very concerned about the flight I have scheduled with my family next month (which includes my 10 yr old daughter).

I read in an article that you can ask the person at the ticket counter if your child has the random security check code on their boarding pass. If it does, you can request one without it. I'm going to do this as well as double check that she has no metal on her before she goes through the detector. I'm thinking this should be enough since our airport thankfully doesn't have the porn scanner yet.

If, after all that, TSA still decides to pat her down, I and/or my husband will be going to jail. I will not cooperate when it comes to touching my kid's genitals. Why should I?

If anyone thinks touching kids this way makes anyone safer, then you're fucking crazy.

[SoCalDem]

25. Actually, children have MORE to fear from male relatives & family friends

While children DO get abducted, most molestation & abuse of children comes from people they know & trust:cry:

[Bill McBlueState]

26. good point

It's counterproductive to teach kids about "stranger danger." If they actually get into danger, telling a stranger might be their best chance for help.

[SoCalDem]

28. Certain strangers, though

Experts who work with these cases advise kids to approach older women or women with kids, if they can:)..or a policeman or fireman.

But in reality, the secrecy part is often what keeps kids quiet.. Little kids are often told that harm will come to their Mothers or their siblings if they tell, and being young, they often believe it:(

[elleng]

31. thx

[treestar]

35. Because they are two entirely different things?

The only real argument here is that it won't prevent terrorists and bombs. and an admission that if there is such an attack, the government cannot be blamed for not searching more thoroughly. Everything else is just irrelevant.

[grahamhgreen]

37. What kind of freak unrec's this?

Will kids now expect that anybody wearing a "security" costume are authorized to touch them? YES

[katnapped]

39. Plenty that agree with it here

Because they're ASKEEERED that plane might go boom, we need to look inside little Sally's underpants while she's wearing them.

[pipi_k]

38. I think what it's all going to come down to is this...

Parents will have to start telling their kids that they should not let anyone touch them unless they (the parents) are standing nearby and can see what's going on.

That's number one.

Number two...how to explain that TSA touching is "OK"...

Bad men tried to do bad things on airplanes, so people need to be checked to make sure they don't have dangerous things on them.

I don't know how else to do it with real young kids.

With older kids (teenagers), it's a bit easier to explain and even rant a bit about it even while having to go through it.

Again...the important thing for the younger kids is that they should not let anyone touch them in certain places unless Mom or Dad is there.