Where Is Four Loko Banned?

[marmar]

from GOOD Food:



Where Is Four Loko Banned?


Four Loko, the caffeinated alcoholic beverage that is putting people in the hospital around the country, is finally drawing the attention of the authorities. This is where it is banned, or will be banned. If you're interested in (responsibly) experimenting with it, avoid these states.


http://www.good.is/post/where-is-four-loko-banned/

[MorningGlow]

1. No wai!

Dammit, I just put it in my novel (set in New York State). Now I'm gonna have to go back and crack a different joke. x(

[Taverner]

2. If someone wants a carbonated form of Ipecac it's fine with me

[Donnachaidh]

3. IIRC Georgia is banning it too

Not sure of the date it starts tho..

[Canuckistanian]

4. If anyone is that desperate for alcohol and caffeine

Why can't they just mix Red Bull or any of the HUNDREDS of other "energy drinks" with overproof alcohol, like Everclear?

Or better yet, why not just inject a mixture of pharmaceutical caffeine and alcohol directly into the bloodstream? It would bypass that inefficient "gastro-intestinal" system.

[jancantor]

9. They can and do

that's part of what makes this so mind numbingly stupid. There is NO difference, practically speaking between red bull and vodka (or my favorite - Monster low carb and vodka (or rum)) and 4 Loko. It's a hysterical, anti-scientific, nannystate, kneejerk response by idiots.

[Toucano]

20. The difference is the packaging.

You can drink bleach in your vodka if you want to. That's not the purpose for which bleach is produced and packaged, however. It isn't the manufacturer's intended use.

When a company produces a product that - when used as intended - has the potential to cause injury, the public deserves to know the risk.

The consumer has the right to expect that a product they purchase off the shelf is safe when consumed or used as intended. This is the job I expect regulators to perform on my behalf.

So, yes, there is a huge difference between whatever you concoct on your own and what a company mixes and packages for general consumption.

[jancantor]

24. and again, I say

show me some fucking evidence that 4 loko is "dangerous". It's frigging alcohol and caffeine. Of course alcohol is DANGEROUS. duh. Everybody who has had bad effetshas drank to excess. Alcohol is dangerous when drunk to excess. There is no science here, just hyteria.

4 Loko is safe, just like any other form of alcohol, when used in moderation. And if you consume it to levels near the LD50, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER INCARNATION, it's dangerous. People have been overconsuming alcohol for centuries. This is nothing new. It's alcohol and caffeine. Big Fucking Deal.

A bunch of fucking idiots binge drink, and all of a sudden it's 4 Loko's fault. People have been binge drinking, especially college students for a very long time. We didn't need 4 Loko to overconsume when I was in college. It's a joke. It's malt liquor and caffeine.

[Toucano]

26. The FDA's report is available.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm234109.htm

The ration of caffeine to alcohol in this product was not available in the past. The caffeine in these products is an additive, not a natural constituent of one or more ingredients.

It's not about overindulgence. It's about the product's potential to cause harm when used as intended.

FDA’s action follows a scientific review by the Agency. FDA examined the published peer-reviewed literature on the co-consumption of caffeine and alcohol, consulted with experts in the fields of toxicology, neuropharmacology, emergency medicine, and epidemiology, and reviewed information provided by product manufacturers. FDA also performed its own independent laboratory analysis of these products.

This is a scientifically reached conclusion.

[jancantor]

29. And again, people co-consume alcohol and caffeine

every fucking time they drink a red bull and vodka. I am surprised half the city of Seattle hasn't keeled over dead.

Here's the FACTS: 4 Loko is 11% alcohol by volume. Consistent with other malt liquors. St. Ides has over 8% for comparison. camo has 10%. Drink Four has 12%

If people can't stand the 12% alcohol content, then fine. Pass a law regulating malt liquors, that they have to have below 10%. 4 loko can modify their formula

Oh, btw... the alcohol content of a red bull and vodka? Well, a 100 proof vodka has 50% alcohol content. If you do 2/3 red bull and 1/3 vodka, you get... 16% alcohol by volume. Significantly higher than 4 loko. yawn

[Toucano]

37. No one can help you understand when you refuse to accept both the science

and the legal implications of MANUFACTURING a dangerous product.

Mix your Red Bull and Vodka. Throw in 3 espressos if you want, and chase it with a Vivarin. I don't recommend it, but that's your business.

It is not equivalent to picking a product off the shelf that was MANUFACTURED and MARKETED with dangerous potential.

The consumer has a right to expect than a product they purchase is safe for use as intended. Red Bull is safe when used as intended. Vodka is safe when used as intended. 4Locos - according to a panel of inter-disciplinary experts - is NOT SAFE when used as intended.

Chlorine is safe when used as intended. Ammonia is safe when used as intended. If you mix them together, you create a dangerous product. Do you think Colgate-Palmolive should be allowed to manufacture a product that combines two safe substances when the combination of those substances is potentially harmful? "It really whitens!"

This is what we pay the FDA to do: ensure products marketed to consumers are safe for their intended use.

Again...no one is stopping you from doing what you want with your caffeine and alcohol. Enjoy whatever your inner mixologist can imagine.

We are stopping four companies from producing and marketing a product that is potentially unsafe when used as intended.

[jancantor]

38. 4 Lokos IS safe

If used. It is dangerous if OVERCONSUMED. Just like Red Bull and Vodka. Any bar can "manufacture" red bull and vodka. Or monster and vodka (I get these sometimes). All that these studies are saying is that

1) if you overconsume alcohol, it's dangerous
2) when you mix alcohol and caffeine, the stimulant effect of caffeine helps mask the depressant effect of alcohol.

again, something we have known for far far far far far longer than 4 Loko has been around. ANYTIME you mix a stimulant and a depressant, you get similar effects. Ask John Belushi :) Ever heard of a speedball? And no, I am not saying alcohol and caffeine is as dangerous as coke and heroin.

Regardless, 4 Loko has alcohol and caffeine. A combination people have been consuming for centuries, with no ill effects, UNLESS they overconsume.

[Toucano]

46. It is dangerous when used as intended.

It doesn't have to be overconsumed to pose a danger.

That's the scientific conclusion of the team who analyzed the product.

Do you have a link to your study that concluded it poses no danger when used as intended?

[jancantor]

48. What is the "intended" use?

A bottle of vodka is dangerous if consumed as "intended" iow if a 100 lb person with no tolerance drinks the whole thing. Are we banning bottles of vodka. 4 Loko is dangerous precisely to the extent that it is an example of alcohol that is consumed.

If you drink 23 ounces of 12% alcohol, whether you get it from 4 Loko, or Vodka, or any other drink - you are going to get fucked up.

We used to drink 40 oz'ers of Schaeffer . More than one. It was college for fuck's sake.

It has 4.66%^ alcohol by volume....

Thus, I would consume : .0466 *40 = 1.864 ounces of alcohol
* 2 40 ozers =
approx 3.7 ounces of alcohol

23 ounces of 12% alcohol (4 Loko) is equivalent to : .12 * 23 = 2.76 oz

4 Loko also comes in a 16 oz can
16 oz of 12% alcohol = 1.92 oz

THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL AS A 40 oz'er of Schaeffer. Which was what we consumed BEFORE we started drinking

So, yes 4 Loko has a fuckwad of alcohol. Still much less than what I got from 2 40 oz'ers. THATs THE POINT OF MALT LIQUOR. Especially potent as hell stuff like 4 loko. The 16 oz is equivalent to a 40oz'er of Schaeffer. Big f'in deal. Read the label. Caveat emptor

Now, the EVIL CAFFEINE!!!

It has the equivalent of a CUP OF COFFEE.

So, drinking a 4 loko (a 16 oz'er) = a 40 ozer of Schaeffer and a cup of coffee....

Please show me any evidence that there is any functional difference between drinking a cup of coffee and a Schaeffer 40 ozer or a 16 oz 4 Loko

The 4 Loko gives what's advertised. It's an alcoholic energy drink. Those who drink to excess have their own fucking selfs to blame.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

41. Excellent points.

[jancantor]

44. None of which justify banning it

which is the point

[AlabamaLibrul]

51. Cigarettes, perhaps alcohol itself, psychiatric drugs, etc. Do we ban all of those, too?

[Toucano]

54. Those products are all regulated differently.

Psychiatric drugs are controlled, available only by prescription from a physician. If a specific drug is determined to be unsafe, when used as intended it is withdrawn from the market.

So no, they are not being banned.

Alcohol itself is not a dangerous product. A 750 ml bottle of red wine, vodka or whiskey is not market or served as a single serving. The consumer knows this. 4Locos is (was) manufactured, packaged, and marketed as a single 23.5 oz. serving.

4Locos also was a different product than liquors that contain caffeine as a natural ingredient. Coffee flavored liquor may naturally contain caffeine in a proportion to alcohol that is not unsafe. The standard is 200 parts per million, according the the FDA.

Alcohol itself also provides scientifically proven health benefits when used as intended.

So no, alcohol itself is not banned.

Tobacco is a dangerous product with no health benefits that harms consumers when used as intended. It also is a unique exception to our product liability and consumer protection concepts - chiefly for economic reasons. The slow pace of tobacco's dangerous effects is also part of the reason it's treated differently. People don't smoke a pack of cigarettes and fail to wake up the next day as a result of those cigarettes.

You may recall that tobacco companies were protected from consumer litigation by the Tobacco Master Settlement of 1998. 46 states' attorneys general sued the 4 major companies, and the settlement provides payment to compensate the states for Medicaid expenses caused by use of the product.

So no, tobacco will not be banned. For now, at least. Society is taking a different approach to reduce and eliminate the danger and risk associated with this product. I'm sure you're familiar with those methods.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

27. Apparently, one can equals five beers:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/11/12/2010-11-12_marylanders_want_four_loko_off_shelves_after_controversial_cocktail_blamed_for_w.html

Experts said the combination of alcohol and caffeine - the drink has the equivalent of five beers and a cup of Starbucks coffee - makes it difficult to monitor how intoxicated someone becomes.

[jancantor]

28. Again, so what?

Malt liquor is what 4 loko is. It says right on the fucking can. And also shows the %age of alcohol by volume. If you drink a big can of malt liquor, you get fucked up. This is hardly new. Malt liquor has more alcohol per volume than beer. That;'s WHY people drink it.

OMG a cup of starbucks coffee? Wow. So you mean that people who drank a cup of starbux coffee before they went to a bar were in serious danger? omg. Well, I'm surprised half the city of Seattle hasn't keeled over dead.

jesus h fucking christ. The idiocy just astounds me. Alcohol and caffeine. HARDLY a novel combination.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

31. Actually, mixing caffeine and alcohol makes the person unaware of his diminished capacities.

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2010/10/19/2010-10-19_four_loko_an_alcoholic_energy_drink_is_banned_at_a_new_jersey_college.html

And last I checked, they don't sell Red Bull and vodka in a can. Four Loko already combines alcohol and caffeine in one drink and it's practically marketed as an energy drink. There's the key difference.

I see no reason why you're so angry and defensive.

[jancantor]

39. It doesn't make a person unaware

It helps mask the effects. Here's a fucking hint. If you drink a can (23 oz) of 12% alcohol by volume malt liquor - it's going to fuck you up. This isn't rocket science. Stimulants have ALWAYS *helped* mask the effects of alcohol. That's what they DO. That's why the old myth about sobering a drunk up with coffee evolved. In fact, it doesn't sober them up, it just gives you a wide awake drunk. Yes, Red Bull and Vodka aren't manufactured TOGETHER. But it's perfectly legal for a bartender to combine them. Why isn't the FDA and the Liquor Board and God on High aka Gregoire coming down on bars and prohibiting them from mixing these drugs? People have been mixing them for DECADES (alcohol and caffeine). 4 Loko is simply a high alcohol drink with malt liquor. It will get you fucked up. That's what malt liquor is intended to do. God knows anybody who tells you they are drinking it for the taste needs to have their taste buds examined. College kids don't binge drink to enjoy the taste. They do it to get fucked up. And that's what these idiots have been doing, and then blaming 4 Loko because god forbid a kid take responsibility for binge drinking and say "it's my fault I had a BAC of .32 . I drank too much".

Why would they say that when they can blame 4 Loko. After all, it has the caffeine of a cup of Starbucks Coffee. Iow, if you drink a cup of starbux coffee and go to a bar and get fucked up - same exact thing. Maybe they should ben starbux within 2 statute miles of a bar. Seriously. All they have done is increase the cachet of these drinks.

4 Loko does exactly what anybody would expect. It gives you a stimulated drunk.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. Nobody said it wouldn't get you drunk.

It's the fact that it's sold in convenience stores, marketed as an energy drink, and the caffeine masks the effects of drunkenness. I can't make this any more clear to you. And I don't know why you have a chip on your shoulder. I've remained civil, yet you continue to be hostile. Have a good night.

[jancantor]

43. I don't deny that caffeine HELPS mask the effects of drunkenness

I am saying that banning it is stupid. Have you even seen the labels on these things? They are hardly "masking" the fact that it's a drink for people that want to get fucked up

[Hippo_Tron]

42. There's nothing dangerous about it if you don't consume too much

[Toucano]

47. Do you have a link? I haven't seen that study. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

49. Consuming alcohol in moderation generally does not make you sick

You don't really need a study to show that.

[Toucano]

50. We're not talking about "consuming alcohol".

We have a scientific study that concluded that the 4Locos product represents potential danger to consumers when used as intended.

If you reject that study, you'll need to cite an alternative study that produced different findings.

We don't make regulations based on Hippo_Tron's instincts, beliefs or anecdotal evidence, thanks very much.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. From the press release...

"Experts have raised concerns that caffeine can mask some of the sensory cues individuals might normally rely on to determine their level of intoxication. The FDA said peer-reviewed studies suggest that the consumption of beverages containing added caffeine and alcohol is associated with risky behaviors that may lead to hazardous and life-threatening situations."

Since the FDA doesn't cite their sources it isn't clear how much Four Loko one has to consume in order to have a higher likelihood of hazardous and life-threatening situations. Nor does it define what it thinks "as intended" means. Does "as intended" mean a few sips, one can, two cans, three cans?

BTW, I'm not questioning the science. I have no doubt that caffeine masks the effects of intoxication and that people who consumed caffeinated energy drinks did more stupid things than people who were sober or who just consumed alcohol with no caffeine. But common sense also dictates that you take a sip of Four Loko you will have experience none of these effects and if you have 3 cans of it you will probably experience many of the. Where is "use as intended" defined?

[Toucano]

56. The studies are cited at www.fda.gov

Bonnie, R. and O'Connell, M., Editors, Reducing underage drinking: a collective responsibility. The National Academies Press, 2004.
Ferreira SE, de Mello MT, Pompeia S, and de Souza-Formigoni ML. Effects of energy drink ingestion on alcohol intoxication. Alcohol Clin Exp Res 30, 598-605, 2006.

Heckman, MA, Sherry, K., and Gonzalez de Mejia, E. Energy drinks: an assessment of their market size, consumer demographics, ingredient profile, functionality, and regulations in the United States. Compr Rev Food Sci Food Saf, 9, 303-317, 2010.

Marczinski, CA and Fillmore, MT. Clubgoers and their trendy cocktails: implications of mixing caffeine into alcohol on information processing and subjective reports of intoxication. Exp Clin Psychopharmacol,14,450-458,2006.

Miller, KE. Wired: energy drinks, jock identity, masculine norms, and risk taking. J Am College Health, 56,481-489,2008.

O'Brien, MC, McCoy, TP, Rhodes, SD, Wagoner, A, and Wolfson, M. Caffeinated cocktails: energy drink consumption, high-risk drinking, and alcohol-related consequences among college students. Acad Emerg Med 15, 453 -460, 2008.

Oteri A, Salvo F, Caputi AP, and Calapai G. Intake of energy drinks in association with alcoholic beverages in a cohort of students of the School of Medicine of the University of Messina. Alcohol Clin Exp Res 31, 1677-1680,2007.

Simon M. and Mosher J. Alcohol, energy drinks, and youth: a dangerous mix. Marin Institute, 2007.

Thombs, DL, O'Mara, RJ, Tsukamoto, M, Rossheim, ME, Weiler, RM, Merves, ML, and Goldberger, BA. Event-level analysis of energy drink consumption and alcohol intoxication in bar patrons. Addict Behav 35,325-330,2010.

Please provide a link or a citation to a published study that concludes the product in question is safe.

[LostHighway]

57. You seem to not understand...

That, in my estimation, most of the people commenting here opposing the ban know what this combination does. It doesn't take a scientific study to understand that being intoxicated while up on caffeine is still being intoxicated, and that because you're more aware you're more likely to think that you can safely do things that you probably can't. There are lots of studies out there that say that alcohol consumption in general is not good for the body either. The question is whether or not it's wise to market drinks containing both of them together. That's a policy decision, not a scientific decision, and needs to be made according to the general level of danger that having drinks like this on the market likely presents in terms of the consequences of people consuming them, in large amounts. That, in turn, has to be balanced against the rights that people in general have to drink and to be able to buy what they want, which, again, isn't something that can be determined by a scientific study.

"We have a scientific study that concluded that the 4Locos product represents potential danger to consumers when used as intended.

If you reject that study, you'll need to cite an alternative study that produced different findings."

[Toucano]

60. Science is used to make the policy decision.

It isn't about the public's (alleged) "right to drink and buy what they want."

The FDA has authority to regulate the manufacture and sale of the product, specifically because this product derives its caffeine as a legally defined "food additive".

As I have said, this decision does not stop you from dropping a couple-six No-Doz in your energy drink if that's your thing.

Rather, this action provides protection for the consumer who has a right to expect the product offered for sale in stores is safe for consumption and won't result in them being hospitalized.

This is a classic example of protecting the consumer from the sale and marketing of a product by a company that happily counts its shillings by putting consumers' lives and safety at risk.

By the way, your statement that "...alcohol consumption is not generally good for the body either," is demonstrably false. Tons of research shows actual health benefits derived from light to moderate alcohol consumption. The abuse or overconsumption of alcohol carries negative health risks, not the alcohol in and of itself.

These caffeine enhanced products carry an inherent and immediate risk.

[ebbie15644]

5. It's made in

Latrobe, pA and I hear they will reformulate the drink!

[Codeine]

13. It'll be back on the shelves as soon as they can get some

brewed without caffeine canned up. The category is just too profitable right now.

[undergroundpanther]

6. There are alot of alcohol with caffiene drinks besides 4 loco.

another way to read 4 loco is for crazy?


"Sparks was the innovator and creator of energy beer. The category didn't really exist before Sparks came out."Pete Marino, spokesman, Miller Brewing Company, 2006<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparks_%28drink%29

I've drank sparks before,just 1 can,it tasted strange,So I haven't drank those sorts of drinks much at all.

[Codeine]

10. We pulled Four Loko and Joose this morning.

Sparks largely died in our store when those two arrived -- Four Loko/Joose's combination of 12% alcohol, candy flavoring, and a caffeine buzz made that stuff FLY off the shelf.

[jancantor]

7. Oh please spare me the crap

"putting people in the hospital"

drinking alcohol to excess has been putting people in the hospital since... since there have been hospitals. This is a classic anti-scientific nannystate hysterical response. Why am I not surprised the idiots in WA state were amongst the first...

[Codeine]

8. It's being pulled off all of the shelves in the inland Southern California

region by its distributor, Gate City/Premium Beverages. My sales rep came in this morning and helped me clear my shelves and stockroom for pickup tomorrow by the delivery driver -- nearly thirty cases of Four Loko and Joose are going out the door. He said they have something in the order of two million bucks of inventory already at their warehouses in this region, not counting the returning product that's about to start pouring in.

A few stores around here still have it as of this afternoon, but he estimates this region will have everything pulled by Tuesday.

[de novo]

11. I had one today and it tasted horrible.

Syrup-sugary and over carbonated. Decent buzz, but yeech! I am going to stick to a good IPA.

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. Can someone explain to me what is so fascinating about this brew?

If I want a pick me up, I will pop a Red Bull or 5-hour energy.

If I want to relax, I will have an alcoholic beverage.

Why on earth would I want the cognitive dissonance of both at the same time?

[Codeine]

14. Remember how stupid we were at 18-22?

Cognitive dissonance is a way of life at that age for a lot of folks.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. Point taken.

At that age, I would have smoked a joint, dropped X and then gone out to drink.

Looking back on that memory (or what I have left of it), I was an idget back then.

[JVS]

36. What if you're tired on a Friday afternoon but would like to be able to go out?

You have the caffeinated alcoholic drink at the end of your hard day of work and you're both re-energized and properly pre-gamed to go out and party hardy.

[DBoon]

16. Why is this different from an Irish coffee?

explain please to this old man

[Odin2005]

23. Because THE YOUNG PEOPLE are using it! THE HORROR!!!

:banghead:

This is just the latest "what is wrong with the kids!?!" hysteria.

[Toucano]

25. Do people normally consume 23.5 oz of Irish coffee in one sitting?

Does the coffee in an Irish Coffee have three times the caffeine of a cup of coffee?

4 Locos is an entirely different and dangerous product.

[DBoon]

52. a 23.5 oz Irish Coffee. Hmmm...

I'll have to try that sometime

[The Straight Story]

17. Bans are a good thing and needed to save the lost/sinners from themselves

Imagine, if you can, a bunch of adults smoking and drinking together? Jeebus - what fucking rational country would allow such a thing to happen? And why have we not banned all of this Four Loko stuff everywhere yet?

Right now, someone is drinking it and harming their own body. Between sex, drugs, violent video games, smoking, etc I am surprised the US is still here.

We can save the US though, if you just pray and ask my god...err if you just follow my own personal belief system and do what I say. Help me make more laws to control the vile personal choice others make.

:evilgrin: :rofl: --> I ain't standing up for the rights of anyone else or fighting anymore bans, because to do so would make me a libertarian (from what I hear). If the govt wants to ban it, then we need to listen to them as all those old white, rich, guys in suits know what is best for us (and us - well we are just too damn stupid to be free to make choices).

[RB TexLa]

18. No different than mixing booze with coffee or cocaine.

[Quantess]

19. Definitely not in Oregon.

Empty FourLoko cans can be seen along the roadsides.
People are drinking that shit while driving. Nice thought, huh?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. I was served this shit at a "Douchebag Party"

It was awful,

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Hey-- just curious: why would you go to a "douchebag party" in the first place?

Unless it was advertised as something else!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. It was a theme party and my girlfriend made me

Everyone went dressed and behaved like a douchebag,

We looked most ridiculous when she dragged me into Abercrombie and Fitch and had my late 30's ass trying shit on for the costume.

[madinmaryland]

53. A douchebag party. That's funny!

[Odin2005]

22. The Nanny State is on the march!

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Alcohol- legal for consenting adults. Caffeine- legal.

I'm sorry, I don't get what the big fucking deal is.

[JVS]

34. The manufacturers stopped putting caffeine in it last week

[Phoonzang]

35. I tried some this weekend for the first time.

Horrible stuff....horrible hangover. But whatever...shouldn't be banned.

[crotchety]

45. Correct

That should be an individual's decision and not the government's

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

58. Ohio has prohibited distributors from selling the drink.

The only four loko you'll find was already stocked on shelves before the prohibition.
Its' fucking stupid.

[Iggo]

59. So people aren't going to mix their own.

Right?