Are dog owners more hardnosed about "forgiving" Michael Vick?

[ruggerson]

Maybe those who don't live with dogs don't really get it on the same visceral level.

[emilyg]

1. Cat lover here - will never

forgive that creep.

[Timbuk3]

3. I'm a dog AND cat lover...

My last dog was "Sagan", a 105 lb lab mix who was possibly the best dog who ever lived.

I now have 8 cats, down from 10 at the height of the population explosion in my back yard. I love all of them.

Here's my question:

Why let someone out of jail if we're unwilling to forgive them?

What Vick did to those dogs was disgusting. If I meet him face to face, he's going to have to individually prove himself, to me.

But it's a fair question. Do we trust our judicial system, or not?

He's "paid his debt to society". As have many, many "liberals" who smoked pot, drove home from a restaurant drunk, whatever.

If a single crime defines a person for the rest of their lives, why don't all crimes carry mandatory life sentences?

[notesdev]

16. same here

no living being deserves to be treated like he treated those animals, that kind of cruelty is offensive to life itself. There's a very primal wrongness about such actions, someone who has done such a thing can never be trusted IMO.

[Coventina]

2. There is no "forgiving" a sociopath. They have to be monitored forever.

His systematic torture of countless dogs for over 5 years makes him unfit to ever have another living creature in his power.

The only thing you can do to "fix" a sociopath is to show them the negative consequences (to themselves, because they are incapable of empathy) of their behavior.

Let's all hope Vick has learned his lesson, but back up that hope with vigilence.

on edit: clarity

[Barack_America]

28. Exactly. I cannot "forgive" him for the reasons you've mentioned.

But I certainly can dismiss him, and that's what I've chosen to do.

Lack of forgiveness does not necessarily mean perpetually stewing in anger.

[tavalon]

38. Yep, that's the biggest problem with Bush the stupider

He wasn't just stupid and incurious, he was an overentitled sociopath.

[Francois_Dillinger]

4. If it was up to me, Vick would still be locked up.

Preferably in an 8x10 kennel with three rabid dogs.

[Safetykitten]

5. I would not want to presume that dog lovers are more sensitive people, and

people are generally good and humane. People will help others in need and animals in need. But Mr. Vick is part of that dysfunctional group of people that fail as human beings. Whatever happened to him, or whatever wire got crossed, it manifested itself into a horrific and completely self serving business of making dogs fight. The added amd mystifying fact that he was extremely successfull financially makes his actions all the worse. he was a gentleman freak that passed the time doing this as a hobby.

But he is a football player, and the team supporters will slobber all over themselves to make excuses.

He is a bad person and he sucks at being a human being.

[ruggerson]

6. Personally I think dogs give a lot more to the world than football players do

:)

[Safetykitten]

7. No argument there. I agree.

[Obamanaut]

9. Was he jailed for a guilty plea to a federal gambling charge for

the dog fighting operation, or was it for cruelty to animals? If it was a gambling charge, then he got off way easy.

What about the faces, limbs, bodies that had to be repaired, or the animals who were so bad off they had to be euthanized, or the small dogs used as 'bait', or the ones that were killed because they 'lost'?

I like your last line "He is a bad person and he sucks at being a human being."

[Chulanowa]

12. Here's the thing...

If causing pain and misery to animals for a profit were punished heavily... what percentage of America's agricultural industry would go tits-up? That's what's on the minds of the people who write these bills; Michael Vick is getting protected by people who make money by putting electrodes up a pig's butt then smashing their brains with a hammer, and immediately cutting them up as they squeal and thrash.

[Safetykitten]

13. Here we go....

[Chulanowa]

14. Hmmm?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

19. There's a difference... bacon is worth it... gambling is not.

I had a huge BLT today with a side of bacon-wrapped-stuffed-habaneros.
Whatever it takes to make bacon, at all costs, will always be worth it.

EdiT:
The best/easiest way to make bacon is to heavily coat it in cornmeal or shake'n'bake and bake it in a tray for 20mins @ 400F. Crunchy, crispy, never rubbery and difficult to burn. The coating and hot bacon fat allow it to fry itself. Spin the tray half-way through cooking so everything cooks evenly. And if you line the tray with aluminum foil just wait for it cool and throw the foil & grease away altogether - no pans or trays to clean up!

[hedgehog]

40. Kind of ironic -we're all debating whether a man who tortured dogs

should be allowed to go out and inflict physical harm on other human beings each week-end for our entertainment....

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

43. Actually, he's a quarterback. VERY rarely does he hit others.

Only on trick or misdirection plays does a quarterback ever try to hit or block someone - even then, most quarterbacks don't go trying to block defenders. The other 98% of the plays they are running for their lives. Even when the quarterback runs the ball themselves they often down themselves before getting hit or just run themselves out of bounds.

[bluestateguy]

8. He could earn my forgiveness, but he's way far away from that point right now

nt

[Safetykitten]

10. Some people just don't deserve it. He's just a gaping axe wound of a human.

[Lisa0825]

11. No dogs, but I am a cat-owned person who works with animal rescue.

Michael Vick has paid his legal debt, but has not shown sufficient remorse or humility.

I believe he has the right to play, but I am disgusted that so many fans so easily forgive him. I will not support any company that uses him for advertising... and that is where the big bucks are.

[DesertFlower]

15. i don't own a dog. i have a cat.

i will never forgive michael vick. if i had my way he spend the rest of his life in prison. i don't believe he's sorry. he's sorry he got caught.

anyone see the episode of "dogtown" where they took 24 of vick's dogs and rehabilitated them? some of those dogs were terrified of people and of other dogs.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

17. Dog owner here... and I enjoy watching vick play.

Why should I "forgive" Vick? He's not mine to forgive.

IMO, they guy went to trial, was convicted guilty, lost tens of millions and spend a fair amount of time in prison. Not to mention he brought alot of attention to animal abuse politically and legally. And so far as I can see, the guy fuck up and has gotten his life back on track. That's what the penal system is for... rehabilitation. The guy may not be a shining role model, but good on him for getting his act together.

And as far as the NFL & the Eagles...
BEST TRADE/SIGN BARGAIN EVER.

[CakeGrrl]

18. Well said, from a fellow dog owner.

As was discussed in another thread, there's another layer of complexity to this issue in seeing another black personality under fire but working to come back after paying their debt to society. This is not a simple issue, and I reject any attempts to paint it as "you're either with us or you hate animals".

[Skittles]

21. "after paying their debt to society"

:rofl:

[CakeGrrl]

23. And what would YOU advocate? Death penalty?

Or would you rather shell out your dollars for permanent incarceration?

Laugh all you want. I don't know what it is some of you really want other than putting him to death. So out with it, then.

[Dr.Phool]

25. Let him drive a cab for the rest of his life.

Oh, I forgot, a regular person can't even get a job driving a cab with a felony conviction.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. So? You want to inflict that outrage on him mas well?

WTF?

[Dr.Phool]

35. Just because he's another rich, asshole celebrity, he should be treated differently?

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. Those who decry the treatment of ex-offenders in society

should want less of it, not more of it. Your position is utterly incoherent.

[pecwae]

32. Yes, but he's

a "personality". A sports one at that. He must be forgiven, and deemed paid-his-debt-in-full (although his victims remain dead or scarred beyond hope) or who would play the games that are so universally loved?

[Skittles]

45. I want him to ROT IN HELL

the man is DISGUSTING BEYOND BELIEF - I sure as FUCK and not going to wax on about POOR MICHAEL VICK - the man is a SOCIOPATH :puke:

[tnlefty]

47. What does race have to do with this?

The first time that I learned about dogfighting and the pieces of human filth who participate in it was decades ago when I was 18, visiting my father in Columbus, GA, and a dogfighting ring had been exposed there and in neighboring AL. All of the pieces of filth who were arrested were white...

I just despise anyone who mistreats animals or humans.

[Barack_America]

29. Beware of using the word "rehabilitated" when discussing a sociopath.

Which, IMO, Vick most certainly is.

He likely has not been "rehabilitated" in the sense of true understanding that what he did was wrong and caused pain and suffering. What he has learned is that certain behaviors will get him in trouble.

I very much see eye-to-eye with you on the issue of Vick's "forgiveness". Why should I forgive him? What's the point? Considering I don't watch football, he's simply become a non-entity to me, which suits me just fine.

[downeyr]

20. I'm not a dog lover

but I've grown up around cats my whole life and I will never forgive Michael Vick. At least not until I see something else hinting at his regrets other than court-required community service and "I'm sorry, I won't do it again" speeches.

[dhill926]

22. Fuck him.......

that's all.........

[DrDan]

24. I disagree - I do not have a dog, but refuse to forgive vick for his treatment

treatment like that does not deserve forgiveness

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Maybe some dog owners are acting like

emotionally disturbed fanatical revenge freaks.

Who knows?

:shrug:

[cornermouse]

30. If he's capable of doing what he did to a dog, there's a possiblity

that he could do it to a person. I have a pitbull or pitbull mix by accident. He wandered up to the house with a broken leg; something that took a lot of courage when you consider the dog he ignored on his way to my house. He now sleeps on my bed every night, can't wiggle and wag his tail hard enough around people and generally speaking is a real love bug within the family.

The idea that someone could do what Vick did? I can't forgive and won't forget.

[TorchTheWitch]

31. here's some visceral for you...

This is one of Vick's dogs. No idea which one and whether or not it survived. This is just ONE single dog of Lord knows how many he personally tortured and killed for ENTERTAINMENT since 2001. And this is just a photo. Looking at it should make you want to vomit. Imagine seeing that dog in person. Hearing it whine and scream and smelling its blood and tell me what kind of person could possibly ENJOY inflicting that barbarity over and over and over again for YEARS on scores of dogs.

Here's another TINY fraction of how Vick entertained himself for YEARS...

From 'The Lost Dogs: Michael Vick's Dogs and Their Tale of Rescue and Redemption':

"particularly disturbing is an episode in which Vick and a friend swing a failed fighting dog over their heads like a jump rope and kill it by repeatedly slamming it into the ground..."


And somehow it's only dog owners that are "hardnosed" about forgiving that pile of excrement Michael Vick. Seems to me that anyone who actually looked into what he did beyond the happy horseshit whitewash prettied up stories that was all the media was willing to print might finally get their visceral meter kick-started out of the stone cold dead zone.

[Myrina]

34. your post should answer any question about whether he should be 'forgiven'.

His "rehabilitation" should be to be treated the same way those dogs were. Nothing less. Let's see how brave and macho and 'big playa' he is when someone's electrocuting or drowning him.

Motherf**er should never make another dime the rest of his days. He should be shoveling poop at an animal shelter, at the most.

[Codeine]

33. No dogs for me, and I still can't stand him. nt

[tavalon]

36. Dunno

Some things are pretty unforgivable. Abuse of children, elderly and pets. If I needed to forgive him to let go of my own personal tie (ie. my father abused me. It took years of therapy but I forgave him, but not for his benefit, for mine) but I don't so I'm not.

[Brickbat]

37. I don't think that really has anything to do with it.

[HappyMe]

41. I think that anyone that has/had any pet

would have a hard time forgiving this guy.
Hideous behaviour towards any helpless critter is unforgivable.

[Flipper999]

42. A lot of folks I know treat sport as some kind of tribe or religion substitute.

They're the ones who were quickest to forgive Vick. Some of them didn't even see anything wrong with the whole dog fighting thing. They said that it's the same as hunting. Even when I pointed out that he (and all dog fighting "trainers") tortured the dogs and brutally slaughtered the under performers. The glazed-eyed look I received in return told me that their brains were busy erasing everything I said. Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing.

This is a sick world populated by numb people.

[ruggerson]

50. Yep - agree with every word

n/t

[guitar man]

44. Fuck him

I've had American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers and various "bully breed" dogs and mixes thereof since I was 9 years old. As far as I'm concerned, they could feed him to the dogs alive and I wouldn't give a shit. :grr:

[Withywindle]

46. Cat person here.

No, I'm not going to forgive him. Why are some people so invested in the idea that everyone should?

For me, there are different kinds of crimes. If he'd been busted with coke, I wouldn't give a shit. If he'd made a horrible one-time mistake, like killing someone by accident in a DUI, it'd be upsetting, but forgiveness could happen if he did his best to make amends.

Methodical, premeditated, elaborate torture and intentional killing over a period of years, just for fun? WHY does anyone need to forgive that? I'm not going to forgive the Bush Administration for it either.

[Raine]

48. I love ALL animals, I will never forgive Vick nt

[WolverineDG]

49. You "forgive" someone who victimized defenseless animals?

ok. that's all I need to know about you.

dg