As a Catholic, I think the pope's proclamation re condoms does not compute.

[glarius]

The point I have not heard anyone on TV or anywhere else make is....Why would the pope condone condoms for male prostitutes? According to Catholic teaching, prostitution itself is a mortal sin, so how does this make any sense whatsoever???
Is the pope saying prostitutes are in mortal sin, but if they, while in mortal sin, use condomes, they are not committing a mortal sin?...The whole thing is crazy!

[HereSince1628]

1. Maybe because Cardinals shouldn't get HIV infections?

:shrug:

[NightWatcher]

5. yep, it's about Self Preservation

[onehandle]

2. The Catholic tradition of social justice often bends and sometimes works to change the rules.

Progress is progress.

[WinkyDink]

18. This Pope is not such an adherent.

[Deep13]

3. They're not being used for contraception so...

...the condom is a non-issue for male prostitutes as far as the R.C. Church is concerned. He's still going to supposedly hell for being a male prostitute.

[glarius]

4. Don't you see the craziness of the whole idea? n/t

[Deep13]

7. Of course I do.

I don't think the R.C. Church is in any position to moralize to anyone.

[glarius]

9. I don't either...that's not my point....my point is that what the

pope has proclaimed, makes no sense...according to established church teaching.

[Deep13]

12. Well, I'm not going to try to explain away their weird rules...

...but my understanding of it is that in a male prostitute situtation, the rubber is not the problem. If I misunderstand, then--well--it's not the first time.

[msanthrope]

13. On the contrary, it makes perfect sense.

You forget the first rule of the catechism--the rule above all rules.

"Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam."

The prime directive of the Church is preservation of the Church by any means necessary. "Peter"--your current pope, is doing that. He is absolving his own, saving his own. Make no mistake, that is the primary purpose.

[thereismore]

15. That's exactly it. The condom in this case does not stand in God's plan for procreation. nt

[flamin lib]

6. The key to the pro-condom comments is

the prevention of disease as opposed to the prevention of conception. If the condom is used strictly for the protection from disease without regard for the "prevention of life" it may be acceptable. The preferred method for both is still abstinence and confessing sin for masturbating or nocturnal emissions.

[Angry Dragon]

10. I am not a Catholic so forgive the question

Are nocturnal emissions considered a sin??

[flamin lib]

20. Not being Catholic I can't be confident but the source is

Genesis 38:8-10 (New International Version)

8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death also.

It's open to interpretation whether Onan masturbated or practiced withdrawal. My Southern Baptist upbringing that emphasized all things feeling good are sins included wet dreams, sinful thoughts and all things sexual. I've had Catholic friends (back in adolescence) who confessed such things but it may be a priest by priest interpretation.

[Angry Dragon]

22. Thank you

It must be anything that feels good must be a sin
Maybe that is why the right gets so pissed when they see others enjoying themselves
and not worrying about sin

[Sal Minella]

19. If "prevention of disease" was the point at all,

Ratzo would have been in favor of letting married men in Africa use condoms with their wives.

Now priests will be safe from getting AIDS from male prostitutes, but wives are still at risk of AIDS so long as bearing child after child after child doesn't kill them first . . .

[Francois_Dillinger]

8. Does seem to be a little contradictory, doesn't it?

More troubling is that it is getting more attention than a statement the Pope made the previous day, where he called healthcare an inalienable right.

[Sal Minella]

24. Health care for men is an inalienable right.

Health care for women/wives/mothers is unnecessary frippery.

[ljm2002]

11. Are you sure...

...that prostitution is a mortal sin? I know it's a sin but is it really up there with the worst sins?

But apart from that, his (ridiculous) assertion that it might be okay if it was a gay male prostitute makes perfect sense within the Catholic church's (ridiculous) overall positions.

In the case of a gay male prostitute, the condom would not be used for contraception. Also, in this case it would be saving the lives of other men.

Whereas in the usual case of heterosexual sex, the condom is used for contraception. And if it does prevent the spread of disease, it would only be saving the lives of women.

So you see, the internal logic is consistent. Evil, yes, but consistent.

[Sal Minella]

25. Exactly. n/t

[Pisces]

14. Too protect his priest, bishops, and cardinals from contracting HIV. Nothing

with the Catholic Church computes anymore. I am an ex- Catholic.

[peace13]

16. And himself. n/t

[WinkyDink]

17. The MOST interesting aspect was that he gave the example of MALE PROSTITUTES**!!

1. Sex, in the Catholic canon, is for procreation. HENCE, prostitution is right out, unless the prostitute is married and wants to bear a child. AS IF.
2. Sex, in the Catholic canon, is for procreation. HENCE, married couples are FORBIDDEN to use prophylactics! It's a SIN!
3. "MALE"?! HELLO? GAY?!
4. "MALE"?! HELLO? GAY SEX SCANDALS?!

Pope Benedict has really, and revealingly, stepped in it BIG-time.

**Don't believe the Italian newspaper's claim he said "female". Nobody qualifies the word "prostitute" except to add "male."

[Cleobulus]

21. As an ex-Catholic, I don't get why anyone would pay attention to that old fraud. n/t

[damntexdem]

23. Actually, he said "starting to take responsibility" -- so recognized taking a path.

And consider, when he said 'male prostitutes' we should read: 'pedophile priests.' And the Church has always been soft on their "mortal sins."