America.....

[Aviation Pro]

...Security or Liberty.

Choose.

[DavidDvorkin]

1. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety,

deserve neither liberty nor safety."

As Benjamin Franklin said. Or is said to have said, anyway.

[Subdivisions]

2. I'd rather die free than depend on government to keep me safe. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

3. America...

I hope you took good pictures.

[kctim]

4. If we choose liberty

can we have the 2nd Amendment back?

[Aviation Pro]

5. I only need to look in my gun safe....

...to know that the 2nd Amendment is strong, and, under this administration, safe.

I wouldn't hedge my bet under a lazy, douchebag, assclown Republicant administration.

[Subdivisions]

7. +1. n/t

[kctim]

9. Then why the ultimatum

security or liberty?

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. It's not an ultimatum - it's a choice.

You can choose for the government to protect you, to give the gift of security thru spying on citizens, unreasonable searches, eliminating Habaeus; or you can choose liberty.

BTW, if you choose security you are asking the government to take your precious guns away.

[kctim]

15. I see

So what is it called when I want government to "give me the gift of security" for one thing, like, oh let's just say my fear of the 2nd Amendment, but I don't want government to give somebody else the gift of security from being blown out of the sky?

Seems pretty unreasonable for me to expect government to keep me secure from my fears and to ignore the fears of others.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Oh, so you are in favor of wiretaps, searches, arrests without warrant,

and imprisonment without charges.

Got it.

[kctim]

20. No, you don't

Or you are just trying to avoid answering the question?

What is it called when you demand government to give you the "gift of security" for what you fear, but not do the same for others and what they fear?

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. It is called hypocrisy, and it's not a game that I play.

I don't demand that the government protect me - never have, never will.

But then, I'm not afraid of my neighbors.

[kctim]

25. Good to know

I would bet many on here complaining about the TSA searches also see no problem with government giving them the "gift of security" when it comes to their fear of guns.

[jancantor]

21. arrests w/o warrant have been legal for over 100 yrs

Are you saying arrests should only be via warrant? Cops go to a DV. Female is bludgeoning male over head with a baseball bat. Cops shouldn't be able to arrest w/o warrant?

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. My bad - meant to say 'search w/o warrant'. Otherwise, I stand by

my comment.

[jancantor]

28. Thanks for the clarification

Searches w/o warrant should be rare, of course. But there are exceptions and always have been. However, due to the fact that technology makes it MUCH easier to get warrants quickly these days, that should be taken into account in terms of case law. For example, many police now have fax/modems in their cars and cell phones which means it is no longer necessary to leave a scene, drive to a courthouse (or a judge's house in the afterhours) to get a warrant signed, etc. A cop who has a car pulled over in the middle of nowhere can email a judge a warrant affidavit, and call him on the cell and be sworn in over the phone, making 'exigency' a rarer excuse these days, then 30 yrs ago.

Imo, case law neeeds to take this into account, and agencies need to be proactive in training and assigning equipment to do telephonic warrants more often.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. And how many of your guns has this administration confiscated? nt

[kctim]

16. None

But I find the search to own a gun to be VERY invasive and a violation or my right to privacy.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Do you believe there should be no restrictions on who can own guns? nt

[kctim]

19. Do you believe there should be no restrictions on flying?

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. Fail.

[kctim]

26. Aw, and you were doing so well

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. You are the one who refused to answer my question.

I answered your questions.

[kctim]

29. The questions are the same

I am sure we both believe there has to be precautions put in place to protect people from their fears. I just want to know why the double standard, seeing how that is what has led us to this point.

[H2O Man]

6. False choice.

[Aviation Pro]

8. Wrong. We never had the choice....

...because everyone was so scared when Two Shoes McFuckstick was living lazy and large in our house.

Let's make sure we stay on track with how we fucking got here.

[H2O Man]

11. Actually, from

what you wrote in your response, you are agreeing with me that it's a false choice. Our reasons for thinking that are different, though, I suspect.

[Steely_Dan]

13. And Don't Forget...

...every time we forsake freedom (liberty), the terrorists win.

-P

[Motown_Johnny]

14. Secure Liberties

[mstinamotorcity]

30. Invasive and humiliating treatment

or PRIVATIZATION. They have chosen.

[Ted_White]

31. The underwear bomber came from Amsterdam and the shoe bomber came from Paris

All this is, is a Republican lobbyist attempt to secure a multimillion dollar airport scanner deal that some people don't like, in which an ass bomber can circumvent.

[Odin2005]

32. Security is an illusion.

I could walk outside this morning and be killed by a car that lost control on an icy road. Being constantly afraid is futile.