The official DU Liberal War on Christmas thread.

[Erose999]

They say it starts earlier every year, but for me, really, the battle against the evil forces of Christmas is a year-round thing.

If I only had a dollar for every time some O'Reilly-ite at the drugstore or lunch counter returned my "Happy Holidays" with a vengeful "Merry CHRISTmas!!1!". Yeah, I'm an Atheist. So the fact that most of the world is celebrating a jolly old man who flies around in the sky promising them a reward at the end if they be good and believe in him (Santa Claus, of course) already has me feeling like an outsider. Then these Fox News watching jerks go and rub it in. What makes these people so angry?

Not to mention the consumerism, do we really want a culture that makes such import of material goods? My sister and brother in law are probably going to spend probably everything they have and then borrow more for gifts for my nieces. When they already have a house full of toys. And I know thats a common thing for families to do, to go into hock to buy gifts. Where does this madness end? Not to mention most toys are made in China so it supports outsourcing and exploitative labor practices. Ugh...

And the crowds and traffic... I can't stand it. I have to go out of my way to avoid the West side of town where all the retail businesses and the mall are located. I can't even go to the grocery store to get a gallon of milk without fear of being trampled by the mob.

And then on Christmas Eve and Christmas day all the stores and restaurants are closed, which is good until you need something.

Then theres my family, all the old codgers huddled around a PDR discussing which pill is good for what ache, and how "they" should "get their gov't hands off our medicare". Or regaling stories about deer hunts followed by rants about how "Obama's gonna take all the guns away". Fascinating dinner conversation, to be sure, but I'll pass.

Christmas... it brings out the worst in people. I feel it is in our best interests that we tone it down a little bit. Make it to where its not such a "big fucking deal" anymore. I guess what I'm advocating here is that people publicly celebrate the holiday in a more secular fashion that includes people of other faiths rather than repels them. And that people replace the spirit of consumerism and conspicuous consumption with a spirit of restful contemplation. Or some'n like that.


So yeah... war on Christmas. Who's with me?

[AndrewP]

1. Well, for me it's an ambivalence towards Christmas

Meh

[dana_b]

2. umm.. I like Chistmas

I have a great family and we really enoy seeing each other. my daughter and I donate time and a little bit of resources to helping those who don't have much and we give each other a little something but don't go overboard. I think people over stress about it. Kind of like National Lampoon's "Christmas Vacation". Just try not to be a Clark Griswald.

[AnArmyVeteran]

3. Merry Holidays!

The OReillyites do get filled with rage when they say Merry Christmas. They use that term like a weapon, not out of any internal joyful feeling. Right wingers attack others with it. I find it almost amusing how they pretend to be the 'real' Christians when they dont believe or practice any of Jesus' teachings. They LOVE war, killing, division, torture, executions, spying and pettiness, but HATE the poor, minorities, giving, compassion, empathy, diplomacy, peace, health care, roads, bridges, technology, smart people and love.

[MineralMan]

4. "Bah," he said. "Humbug!"

Happy Holidays! I'm an atheist, too, but I don't worry myself overmuch about Christmas. In fact, it's a great excuse for my entire extended family to get together, which we only do now once a year. It's great to see all the great-nieces and great-nephews grown another year older. My parents are both 86 years old, so it's wonderful to see them. Who knows how many more years I'll be able to hug my mom and dad.

But, you do as you please over the holidays. Me? I'm going to enjoy them, just like always.

Unrecommended for grinchness.

[blondeatlast]

5. With all due respect, I love it--and I spent 12 years in retail!

I love the lights, the decorations, the music, and especially the "Angel trees" where my son and I pick a needy child about his age and give necessities and a complete frivolity.

Your mileage is, of course, entitled to vary.

[KittyWampus]

12. I've always said that American citizens should be required to spend 6 months doing retail.

Preferably during a "busy season". Just so everyone can experience the Public.

[DFab420]

13. Good idea!

It would teach people to be a bit more respectful that's for sure.

[blondeatlast]

15. Me too; or waiting tables, or the DMV, or the emissions station, driving a bus, etc.

You really learn about people; the good and the bad.

A little empathy is soooo appreciated--and don't I know it.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. How do you think I ended up such a giant fucking misanthopist?

Shit, I used to be a nice guy, once.

[AndrewP]

62. I have, and it drained my will to live!

LOL

[blondeatlast]

6. Happy holidays... Dammit! nt

[queenjane]

7. Can I declare war on office holiday functions??

Please, pretty please? So far, I've been nagged to participate in cookie exchanges, "dirty santa" gift exchanges, "adopt a family", an official reception that's on the other side of town from the building where the employees actually work (and, unlike prior years, has been stripped of any fun and frivolity--no karaoke or disc jockey this year), various & sundry potluck luncheons, endless memos warning us NOT to put up electric strings of lights, fights over work coverage between xmas & New Year's.

I'm always thrilled come Jan 1 because this crap is OVER. Being the only athiest in an office full of fundies is NO FUN. And try being a vegan when every single potluck dish (save what I bring) is loaded with bacon and/or cheese, and I'm ogled like a lion at the zoo for being "weird".

So yeah, let's celebrate Solstice (when the days finally start getting longer, yes), plus another year closer to retirement, when I won't have to deal with the "merriment".

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkansas Granny]

9. I'm a non-believer and I love Christmas. Family and friends get together

and I get to buy gifts for kids and grandkids (and anyone else I damn well please) without being accused of spoiling them or being excessive. So, bake those cookies, decorate the tree and put another bow on that box and enjoy yourself.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas or whatever else floats your boat, just have a good time.

[DFab420]

Dupe

[DFab420]

10. Exactly~!

I don't understand about people getting all twisted up about this time of the year.

Are people really that spiteful of others they can't even enjoy the Christmas season?

[DFab420]

11. Damn double dupe.

[EFerrari]

17. I'm with you, Arkansas Granny. That makes us the stealth infiltrators

for the Liberal War on Christmas.

I can pass as one of them with my stocking stuffers and special cookies and shopping game face. They'll never know what hit them.

:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

21. Buying stocking stuffers is the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on!

I have my eye open for them all year--and this year I have a real fireplace and mantel to hang them on! :bounce:

[EFerrari]

32. My MIL used to do that. She was a Christmas sock ninja.

She's been gone 25 years and I still miss her terribly. Her socks were the thing everyone looked forward to, that and her apple pie which had been known to bring brothers to blows over the last piece. lol

:hi:

[Phentex]

55. Same here!

Cheers to you and yours!

:toast:

[somone]

14. Meh. Let the kids have some fun

Every country and every culture has its own gift-giving season

[quinnox]

16. That must suck for you, I think christmas is a great holiday

People every where seem to get a little nicer, and the atmosphere is wonderful. It doesn't require you to believe in the christian faith to appreciate the joy and festive cheer that is christmas.

I'm sorry for people who feel miserable during one of the best times of the year, that must really suck for them.

[mommalegga]

39. I really dont get the big retailers banning the phrase

"Merry Christmas"

Was at a home depot and asked them why after noticeing the life size "happy holidays" card...

Response was "people may be offended"...And Im thinking WTF? If someone said "Happy Hannuaka or "Happy Eid" or "Happy Festivus" I wouldnt be offended even though those greetings dont apply to my faith.. I would simly respond, "Im not _______ but I appreciate the kind thought, and happy _____ to you" So whats the big freakin deal?

I think to the people being "offended", thats your own personal problem, but not the stores, so stuff it.

[msanthrope]

18. Unrecc from an atheist that loves the Winter Holidays.

Stop being such a grinch--the holidays in late December all celebrate the same thing--

the return of light and hope. It's there in the sky for you to see.

Find someone other than your family to celebrate with, and you may feel better about it.

[DrDan]

19. I love Christmas

spending time thinking about meaningful gifts for my wife, 2 children and granddaughter. Watching them enjoy unwrapping the gifts.

our traditional family dinner on Christmas Eve - yes at a restaurant - same one for years.

time off to just enjoy some quality family time.

big Christmas morning breakfast.

a nice long bike ride on Christmas afternoon - 12 miles - at the Canaveral National Seashore - working off the big breakfast.



I guess there are those who can find fault in anything.

[mvd]

54. Agreed

I have complaints that the consumerism is too much. If you spend all you have and fret too much over gifts, that's not the spirit of the holiday. My family gives decent gifts when we can, but avoids excess.

But, I'm 34, and Christmas still feels magical to me. The music, the decorations, the holiday charity work, the traditions, the cheer, the religious meaning - they all make the holidays special. It's my favorite time of year. As far as Christmas stuff starting too early, the stores are early for every event.

Have a great holiday season! :hi:

[RZM]

20. I'm not a Christian and I think it's fun

I really loved it as a kid and I still like the decorations, food, parties, and presents!

If you don't, then don't participate. I have to say I chuckled a bit at the fact that you are urging a 'war on Christmas' in part because you don't like being around your own family. It's not Christmas' fault that you don't have a good time at family gatherings. It's yours for choosing attend when you could always just stay home.

[Codeine]

22. I'm an atheist who doesn't hate Christmas.

I don't go all out, but my friends get prezzies and mulled cider is enjoyed by all.

Actually I'll be working Christmas Day this year so I'll miss the cider. Damn.

[blondeatlast]

23. Now THAT'S a tragedy.

If you were in my 'hood, I'd happily remedy that disappointment.

[alarimer]

24. I hate all holidays, even Thanksgiving.

But I reserve special hatred for Christmas. All that fake "togetherness" wrapped up in consumerism makes me ill.

[DrDan]

37. it's really what you make of it - it does not have to smack of consumerism

[ChoppinBroccoli]

25. Do You REALLY Want To Get Under Right-Wingers' Skin At Christmas?

Start wishing them Happy Ramadan. Then watch how quickly they start preaching respect for other people's religions.

[AndrewP]

33. LOL. I like that.

[DFab420]

36. Well considering Ramadan is in July this year

I'm sure it will not only confuse the right-wingers but also any Muslims who happen to be in ear shot.

[Obamanaut]

38. Does Ramadan coincide with the yuletide/Christmas season this year? Since it

does not, don't you think the effect might be lost?

[DFab420]

52. Ironic a bit isn't it

They laugh at right-wingers and their ignorant perceptions of religion, but fail on realizing they themselves don't get it either.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. Who is this "they" you speak of?

[DFab420]

57. Ummm

Chopping Broccoli and AndrewP.....

you know the whole.. Happy Ramadan thing... even though Ramadan has nothing to do with this holiday season.

[Erose999]

26. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing most of my family. Its just that at Christmas

I don't get to pick and choose who in my family I get to see. So the obnoxious drunks/dopers and the crazy teabagger cousins and all those people I normally try to avoid are all there. Breathing up all the good air in the house and exhaling it in the form of cigarette smoke.

I'm not against holidays. I LIKE having 2 weeks off work for X-mas/New Years. Even though I'd rather take that vacation time when its warm enough to have fun outside. And I wouldn't begrudge having to work on a special religious holiday upon anyone.

I just think some people take Christmas a bit too seriously. Thats all.

[DCKit]

27. I will pray to the dark lord (Santa) for you. n/t

[Dogtown]

28. I'm in.

:patriot:

[Still Blue in PDX]

29. I like it.

I am not sure my Christian friends are aware that I am celebrating Yule, one of the minor Pagan holidays, not baby Jesus. My reply to a grumpy "Merry Christmas" would be, "Whatevah." I'd love to engage the more militant ones in a dissertation on the history of the holiday, but as a wise woman once told me, you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

;-)

[Peter1x9]

30. I don't hate Christmas or the holidays, but I do hate

that It has been commercialized to death. I can't even stand to watch TV from November 1st to December 24th.

[Still Blue in PDX]

31. It started around October 15th this year, I noticed.

:crazy:

[AmandaMae]

34. I'm in. I'm an atheist but it's not that I "hate Christmas" -just what it's become.

All just consumerism. advertising, cheap gifts without any real thought behind them.

[Erose999]

35. Exactly, well said.

[nolabear]

40. I LURVE Christmas. And I choose what I do and am exposed to to keep it wonderful.

First, I try to give to others. My birthday happens to be in December and every year I give money to the local food drive equal to how old I am. I hope to give a hundred bucks someday. I think about what I know about my friends and family and try to give each one something thoughtful, not expensive but thoughtful. I have a terrific time shopping in little independently owned stores and, frankly, online. There are some delightful ideas out there.

Then I find myself a new holiday CD every year, and I've now got some corkers, from blues to the Rat Pack to this bi-zarre Japanese faux-American pop tune that just plays over and over on the CD. There's some beautiful, silly, risque and innovative stuff out there. And for Pete's sake, if you haven't heard David Sedaris' The Santaland Diaries, you're missing out!

I love making origami ornaments and make a few every year, so I learn something new and have some inexpensive and beautiful ones. Next I hope to learn to bead them.

I adore really classic Christmas movies and wait eagerly to see A Christmas Story, The Worst Christmas Pageant Ever (actually I've seen that in play form) and It's a Wonderful Life. And Bad Santa

I like Solstice, too, a lot. Since I'm not Christian I don't take it literally, but the Jesus story is a good story, and I appreciate the tenderness of the archetypal beloved, special child who saves the world, whether it be Raven, the Buddha, Krishna, or my own wonderful children.

Before I sound too Pollyanna, there are things I let get to me and much I just put up with, but as I said, I don't just let the things that would make it unpleasant control my experience. And you can too! Or not.

[EFerrari]

45. The family joke here used to be that the night I needed to stay up until 4 am

finishing whatever sewing I was doing for Christmas was also the night that the rerun of "White Christmas" was on. I swear, I know every word of that script.
You're right, imo, about managing your own adventure. We don't watch much commercial teevee and don't shop as a hobby so the PR guys don't have much of an opportunity to run their game on us. And the thing about Pollyanna was that she was into framing. That's what her "glad game" was all about, framing her own experience. And she didn't have a think tank or anything!

lol

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I like the Holidays, and I'm a stone cold Atheist.

Of course, I'm not religiously anti-capitalist or anti-consumer or anti-technology or anti-cool stuff, either.

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. Replying to "Happy Holidays" with a spiteful "Merry CHRISTmas!!1!" is mind-bogglingly unprofessional

If any attendant or clerk gave me that crap, I'd call the supervisor faster than you can say "Christians are oppressed".

Of course, here in Brazil people (and cards) have been saying "Boas Festas" since forever, and nobody bats an eye.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. When easter comes around, remind them that bunnies symbolize fucking.

Happy Fertility Fucking Festival!

[DFab420]

51. And that's why I really love easter haha.. eom

[Viking12]

46. DADT repealed in the War on Christmas!

[johnaries]

47. Happy Solstice!

I always like reminding them that shepherds don't "watch over their flocks at night" in December.

[yellowcanine]

48. I love the War on Christmas! Merry Mohammadmas everyone!

[Odin2005]

49. Meh, I'm an Atheist and I have no problem with "Merry Christmas"

Christmas is my favorite holiday. :)

[DearAbby]

50. Waiting for the word from High command...

to go out among those who celebrate, to steal their "Who Hash"

Ah Yes!

[Kennah]

53. I love Christmas but hate a lot of it's practitioners

This reminds me of a DU thread on the subject of loving or hating one's country.

I love the concepts of Christmas that are manifest in Christianity (recovering Southern Baptist, now an Agnostic Pantheist) as well as the secular world, like Dickens or Capra.

It gets a little old at times, but I will still tune in almost any time a new variant of either "A Christmas Carol" or "It's A Wonderful Life" is released. Hell, I still get suckered into just about every various iteration of Santa Claus and company.

I like cruising around with the wife and kids to see lights and decorations, and I love the food.

However, once I have to venture out the front door, or exit the vehicle, and interact with the humans, all of my illusions are shattered.

Christmas makes people shallow and materialistic. The proliferation of crap, mostly made in China with an integral self destruct in 3 days device, makes me want to vomit.

There are a myriad of gifts I would much rather receive from friends and family.

Go work a soup kitchen for an hour, donate toys (new stuff or unbroken used stuff with all the pieces), donate to a food bank (pick the best stuff outta your cupboard, not the cream of mushroom soup from 1998), use your imagination. If you want, dedicate your service in my name. You don't even have to tell anyone else. Just send me a note, card or letter saying you did it.

Heh business, here's something radical. Look at the price of the annual company Christmas Party(s) and instead consider whether that money could be better spent to hire someone.

Christmas, the way it is practiced today, should really be redesignated Naked Capitalism Day.

[Raine]

58. Count me out on that. I'm not religious but I LOVE

Christmas. I enjoy all the decorations and the special events. Just because some try to ruin it by turning it into a war or a holiday of consumerism is not reason enough for me to turn against it.

[ThatsMyBarack]

59. Know what I hate about Xmas?

The ADS on TV and radio! I especially can't stand the way ads I already can't stand are "done up" for the holidays, such as the Xmas version of Hershey's "Melt with You" ad! Hasn't that song suffered enough abuse? :grr:

[LWolf]

60. "do we really want a culture that makes such import of material goods? "

"We" do if "we're" capitalists. Consumerism keeps the capitalist system pumping. Even those of us who aren't conspicuous consumer capitalists can enjoy the season. Christmas, Hanukkah, Yule, or whatever you want to call it, it does have a positive side.

Christmas can bring out the best in people, including atheists.

Knowing that christians and capitalist consumerism are both late to the party, we can look beyond them to the roots of the holiday.

To the time when survival through winter drove human endeavors, when harvest festivals weren't about pilgrims and indians, but about thankfulness for having stored food to see us through the winter, when the hunger for the divine was connected to the earth that sustains us, when we, in our search for that divine, and in our need to understand our world, attributed divine qualities to the world we could perceive.

When we lived the cycle of rebirth on earth, entering into the darkness at winter, and coming out of darkness into light each spring, celebrating the return of the sun, of life to the earth.

You don't have to believe in a god or goddess to appreciate and celebrate seasonal cycles. You can use those celebrations to remember and connect with where your life has evolved from within those cycles.

You can also use the season to celebrate the evolution of humans by giving unselfishly, without needing to connect it to religious or mythological beliefs or ceremonies. Or rampant consumerism.

We need the xmas "spirit" all year long: peace on earth, good will towards all, and putting others before ourselves.

[Erose999]

64. Thats what I'm saying is that the winter holiday should be more about thankfulness and unselfishness

than about consumerism, conspicuous consumption and "my god is better than yours".

The mass marketing of Christmas, and the demagoguery of people like O'Reilly have made Christmas into a living hell for a great many people. What I want to celebrate during the winter is pretty much the complete opposite of what the dittoheads want to celebrate.

[LWolf]

65. Me, too. And I do.

My family does a gift exchange; we draw names and give to one person, so every adult gets a gift. We each get one present for my grandson, the only child in the family, so he gets 5 gifts. We don't spend much time shopping; 2 gifts each. Any resources we have beyond those two gifts go to local food banks and homeless shelters. My grandson and I make something for him to give to each adult each year. We also make cookies, cider, egg nog, etc., and make some sort of ornament. Our trees are decorated with 2 generation's worth of hand-made ornaments. We spend our time on xmas eating and drinking, playing games, making snowmen and having snow fights when there's snow, watching movies, and just generally enjoying each other's company.

In past years we've done caroling, which is fun, too.

[fascisthunter]

61. I don't hate christmas and there is No War on it either

[WorseBeforeBetter]

63. Wow, you really crammed a lot into that post.

And I'll pass on your war on Christmas.

[Erose999]

66. Theme song = Fear: Fuck Christmas

Lee Ving is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zgol2NQhlM&feature=related

Good cover by Bad Religion as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXpWxkeHUE0&feature=related