Why you shouldn't (and we won't) give to the Salvation Army this holiday season

[WillParkinson]

Why you shouldn't give to the Salvation Army this holiday season

In case you've forgotten, the holiday season is fast upon us. That means the Salvation Army bell ringers will be out in full force dunning shoppers for donations meant to help the needy and destitute. Unfortunately, the Salvation Army won't assist everyone - only those they deem sufficiently worthy.

While many think of the group as just another charity, in truth the group is a religious sect that is notoriously anti-gay; you shouldn't give to the Salvation Army this holiday season if you support gay rights.

When a former boyfriend and I were homeless, the Salvation Army refused to help us unless we broke up and left the "sinful homosexual lifestyle" behind. We slept on the street and they didn't help when we declined to break up at their insistence. I've seen the discrimination the Salvation Army preaches first hand.

Need more examples? Check out the video after the jump for a laundry list of anti-gay policies and positions the Salvation Army has taken. You'll probably be shocked - and you definitely won't put any more coins in those big red buckets.

http://www.bilerico.com/2010/11/why_you_shouldnt_give_to_the_salvation_army.php

(The video is at the link.)

[lbrtbell]

1. One time our family called them for help

We were desperately in need, and they did nothing but tell us to contact a local church for help.

We've never donated to them since, and I make it a point to tell the bell-ringers their time would be better spent volunteering for a charity that actually helps people.

[Morning Dew]

2. Good stuff, thanks.

I added Zinnia Jones as a favorite quite a while ago. ZJ has a lot to say that's worth listening to.

[BlueIris]

3. I have been very uncomfortable with the idea of giving for two holidays seasons now.

Because of the stories of homophobic discrimination I hear coming out of their missions.

[Denninmi]

4. Thank you for posting this.

Their bell ringers are all over the place now here in Metro Detroit. I don't know if these individuals are paid or volunteers or some of both. I certainly don't envy them standing out there in the cold. But, knowing this, I will NOT donate to them. Next time one asks me directly for a donation, I will tell them why.

My niece's son is really into Boy Scouts, and that irks me to no end, getting hit up with the "will you buy" -- I hate to have to feel guilted into buying highly overpriced poor quality food products where the manufacturer/middleman gets the bulk of the profits and what is left goes to supporting an organization that is openly hostile to the GLBT community and to atheists. I just said no this year, but copped out as to the real reason, just saying that I had not been working as many hours (true) and my checks have been smaller. It's kind of pointless to argue with them anyway, she married into a very conservative W. Michigan family.

[TexasObserver]

5. You are 100% right.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Stopped Donating For This Reason Years Ago...

I'm also uncomfortable with their "faith-based" and militaristic nature of this organization. Our money goes to local shelters and pantries that don't see color, religion or sexual orientation...just people in need.

[TBF]

7. Goodwill is secular aren't they -

I just took a carload of household stuff over there last week.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

51. A Methodist chapel in Boston and a workshop mission in Brooklyn...

is how it started, according to Wiki. I was just at Goodwill today, making a donation and doing a little shopping. It's like a little treasure hunt...never know what you'll find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_Industries

"Morgan mission was started originally as an urban outreach ministry, in 1902, of Morgan Methodist Chapel, Boston, Massachusetts, which was pastored by Reverend Edgar J. Helms, a Methodist minister and early social innovator. Helms and his congregation, collected used household goods and clothing being discarded in wealthier areas of the city, then trained and hired those who were unemployed or bereft to mend and repair these items. The products were then redistributed to those in need or were given to the needy people who helped to repair them. In 1915, Helms hosted a visit to Morgan Memorial by representatives of a workshop mission in Brooklyn, NY, and they learned about the innovative programs and the operating techniques of the "Morgan Memorial Cooperative Industries and Stores, Inc." Helms was subsequently invited to visit in New York. Out of these exchanges came Brooklyn's willingness to adopt and adapt the Morgan Memorial way of doing things, while Helms was persuaded that Brooklyn's name for its workshop, "Goodwill Industries," was a marked improvement over the Morgan Memorial name. Thus was officially born Morgan Memorial Goodwill Industries, and that, plus Brooklyn's interest and ties, became the foundation on which Goodwill Industries was to be built as an international movement. (From For the Love of People, by John Fulton Lewis.) Today Goodwill has become a $3.25 billion nonprofit organization.<1> Helms described Goodwill as an "industrial program as well as a social service enterprise...a provider of employment, training and rehabilitation for people of limited employability, and a source of temporary assistance for individuals whose resources were depleted.""

[TBF]

57. That works for me -

I happen to be Methodist :)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

59. Yup, me too.

Or at least I was raised Methodist. :P

[TBF]

60. Yes, I really should've put it that way as well -

we go so infrequently (which is probably why I have no historical knowledge!). At any rate, glad it's a positive group because they are closer to where I live and it's nice knowing they are not run with a bigoted agenda like the Salvation Army.

[kctim]

8. Sorry, but they help ALOT of people in need

I give to them. I give to the local pantries. Hell, I will even give to the nutty fundy church pantry. I don't care, it is about helping people in need, not pushing political policy.
To me at least.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Help them hate on gays?

Not me.

[lonestarnot]

10. Nor me.

[kctim]

11. Thats just silly

They are not out there promoting "hate" on gays, they are asking for help to help others.

[WillParkinson]

19. And here's that link again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x169827

Salvation Army Uses Homeless To Fight Gay Benefits

[sarcasmo]

25. Blind if you can't see the hate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. While they hate on gays

[bluestate10]

46. I agree with you that the Salvation Army does not hate on gays, but their policies hurt gays.

Three faith based organizations that have sorted out their charitable function from their religious dogma are the YMCA, YWCA and The Saint Vincent de Paul Society. All three are very much faith based, but help all comers.

[WillParkinson]

15. It's about helping people in need, not pushing political policy...

Right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x169827

Seems they have their own political policy.

[gkhouston]

23. By choosing not to help gays, THEY are pushing THEIR political policy.

There are probably other charities in your area that don't discriminate in this way, and they'd be just as grateful for your contributions.

[dsc]

32. what if they opposed interracial couples?

would your opinion be the same?

[glitch]

41. Then give directly to the food pantries and homeless services. Very easy to do and no one gets hurt

[blonndee]

52. Like who?

I'm serious. I'm glad you give, but I've never met anyone who's said this group helped them. Of course, I have a lot of gay friends and others who apparently don't meet their criteria. I haven't given to this organization in YEARS, and I won't spare them a penny in the future, ever.

[The Straight Story]

12. Kind of reminds me of some in govt we should not give money to either, but people will :) (nt)

[Romulox]

13. Ummm...so who are you guys giving to INSTEAD?

It's disturbing to me that the blog linked doesn't even mention that part. :wtf:

[WolverineDG]

14. Yeah, you'd think with all the folks riled up about the Salvation Army

they'd actually form a politically correct charity that does the same thing.

Until then, I'll continue to give to the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, Goodwill, & other charities that get bashed for some reason or another. Not giving only hurts the people they serve.

dg

[dsc]

34. the video, which is less than 2 minutes and which you clearly didn't bother to watch, mentions

several charities, including the Red Cross and the Trevor Project.

[uppityperson]

37. Red Cross may be good in some local areas, but overall they don't pass on enough fast

enough. I know some really good people working with the Red Cross (American Red Cross) but the overall organization has some serious issues with using the money they collect properly.

[shrike]

71. Everyone I know who's ever dealt with the Red Cross HATES the Red Cross

I know people who volunteered after Hurricane Katrina, and they had nothing good to say about the Red Cross.

I'm sure the other charities are just fine, but I'd never recommend the Red Cross to anyone.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Custom tailored to your profile...

Gleaner's Food Banks, o' Southern Michigan.


http://www.gcfb.org/site/PageServer

[Romulox]

22. Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I am...ahem...on their mailing list

Gleaner's is a "core" charity for me, if that makes sense. Similarly, The Heat and Warmth Fund.

http://www.thawfund.org/

But your suggestion is excellent, and appreciated. :thumbsup:

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Good on ya!

And 96 cents on the dollar goes to food services. The Salvation Army has executives who are paid in the mid 200K range.

[WillParkinson]

18. I give to our local food banks

As well as the local AIDS groups.

[dsc]

33. the video, which you apparently didn't bother to watch, does

it mentions several charities ranging from the Red Cross to the Trevor Project.

[Romulox]

39. I read the article, but I was not in a position to watch a video at the time of my response.

Your snark notwithstanding, I do appreciate your response though. :hi:

[dsc]

53. you earned the snark

by writing this

Ummm...so who are you guys giving to INSTEAD?
It's disturbing to me that the blog linked doesn't even mention that part.


the fact is the blog, via the video, did mention several charities. You basicly falsely called the blog writer an uncharitable bastard because you couldn't watch the video which was mentioned in the OP as something to watch. The fact is we did provide a list of other charities.

[DireStrike]

62. Personally I hate being forced to watch videos.

All important information could, and should, be included in text.

It's really not fair to criticize people for not watching a video, and stupid to fail to include critical information in the text because it's present in the video. Lots of people don't watch video for one reason or another.

[dsc]

63. then don't say, as the poster did, in the rudest way possible it should be noted

that we don't suggest other charities. He is the one who in essence called us poor hating bastards when he wasn't able to watch a video the op directly stated should be watched. It isn't like the OP just provided a link to a blog which had a video the OP stated watch the video.

[DireStrike]

65. Well the rudeness stands on its own.

I still say it's a valid criticism to expect all important information to be mentioned or referenced in the text, and it's therefore ok (or at least an honest mistake) to say it wasn't mentioned if it is only in the video.

[dsc]

66. He was told to watch the video

it was under 2 minutes. That is hardly a hardship.

[DireStrike]

68. He was not told by the time of his remark.

He had no way of knowing that the video contained the information he was talking about.

Watching a video is certainly not a hardship. That doesn't change the fact that most people will not watch videos. It's unreasonable to expect people to have watched videos prior to commenting, no matter how short, and it's poor communication technique on the part of a poster to not include, or at least reference, important information that's in the video.

[dsc]

70. the OP directly stated, video at link

I don't know how much clearer it could have been. He had no business calling us poor hating bastards, which is in essence what he did, without having watched that video.

[bluestate10]

47. I give to non faith based food banks. I give unused clothing to Saint Vincent de Paul Society. nt

[Lance_Boyle]

16. I always just tell the bellringers that I don't give to religious charities.

Many of them are surprised to hear that the SALVATION army is a Christian organization. :eyes:

[truebrit71]

20. I had to chuckle at the guy in full camo gear jingling his bells outside a grocery store last night

...Yup, nothing says Merry Christmas quite like camouflage...

[Township75]

49. and it might be hunting gear that will keep him warm on a cold night.

but if you can only see your interpretation of what is Christmas, be sure and criticize those that were actually volunteering for people while you went and shopped for yourself.

[TwilightGardener]

21. Well, I never give to the Salvation Army anyway--I always want to fling that fucking bell across

the parking lot. Find a less annoying way to get donations!

[KittyWampus]

69. LOL! You sound like a grinch.

Though I agree with you.

[DemocraticPilgrim]

26. I think giving is important, if not to them some cause that is helpful to the poor.

[_ed_]

27. The Salvation "Army"

is just another religious organization, exempt from taxes, that's in the business of separating people from their money. That they help people sometimes is irrelevant. Give to an organization that doesn't have a policy of hate toward gays. Give to an organization that isn't wasting your money on religious policies. Give to an organization that doesn't have a creepy paramilitary structure and ranks.

[Stevenmarc]

28. Nothing new and that's why I haven't given to them for years.

[Upton]

29. I give my pocket change to bell ringers

when I come out of a local store, have for years. I will continue to do so. The Salvation Army does a lot of good things. They run shelters and food banks in my area. People who are hungry and homeless could care less about some political statement..

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. And I put a note in the bucket

that says because of their anti-gay agenda, I won't give them a dime. When I pull up to a store and see a bell ringer, I write the note. Been doing this for a couple years now. I also sign it and add my phone number but no one has ever called me. :shrug:

[Behind the Aegis]

40. I am sure the GAY hungry and homeless care!

[justiceischeap]

61. And there are a LOT of GAY hungry and homeless! (n/m)

[madfloridian]

30. I agree. They should not be getting faith-based money from the government.

But Obama just issued that exec order that allows faith-based hiring and firing to continue....and prejudice also.

[Ginto]

31. I give to the Salvation Army. The reason being that their administrative costs are very low. nt

[TriMera]

38. k & r. n/t

[Vinca]

42. I don't give to them because the good stuff donated to their thrift shop

mysteriously disappears out the back door. Rumor has it the manager can barely close his garage door.

[Paper Roses]

48. I've heard the same thing. Well, almost. The prize donations

are said to be auctioned. I wondered for years why no real good stuff turns up there any longer. I am told that they have staff that go through the daily workload to make sure nothing 'good' slips by. Antiques? Real jewelry. Granny's old tea service? Who knows.

Makes you wonder.

[Lorien]

55. The same seems to happen at our Goodwill

there's nothing worthwhile there. Ever. And yet I've donated car loads worth of good stuff over the years and I'm sure others have as well. The dumpsters behind Goodwill are often filled with clothing and housewares, too. I don't know what all is going on there, but it can't be good.

[fishwax]

43. delete -- dupe

[fishwax]

44. i stopped several years ago for those reasons

:kick:

[Mike Nelson]

45. I've heard repeatedly that they are anti-gay...

...and I TELL them I give to organizations who help all in need
...without questioning God's great Gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters!

[Biker13]

50. We Have Very Little...

to donate this year. I want every cent to count, and I will not support any organization that discriminates against gays.

With the internet, it's easy to find a local charity that uses most of your donation to actually help people, and does not judge.

Biker's Old Lady

[Lorien]

54. I stopped giving to them about ten years ago because of that. Now I give

items directly to Amvets and I buy pre-filled grocery bags for the poor from Publix (another far from perfect company) or donate food directly to a local vegan restaurant that delivers it to area food banks.

[eridani]

56. I just tell the local bell ringers that I've donated to our local food banks n/t

[donheld]

58. Haven't given them a cent in years

There are plenty of good charity organizations who do not discriminate. They get my money.

[lunatica]

64. That's the reason I passed them up this season

Fuck them.

[w8liftinglady]

67. Unfortunately,The Salvation Army is one of the few Homeless Vet Centers in Texas

http://www.nchv.org/network_search_results.cfm

and definitely one of the few who offers care for women and children.None South of Dallas offer woman/children care
I wish it weren't so.
I have found most of my homeless vets hanging out in front of there,or at the Hotel 19 down the street.

Our nation is in a sad situation-no doubt.