Meat eaters bashing on Michael Vick...

[SHRED]

...is a tad hypocritical don't ya think considering what happens to the animals in the meat production process?

Hell, milk production is awful to cows also. They keep the Holstein cows pregnant and if the calf is a male then they are either killed or raised for veal.

What Vick did was reprehensible but what "we" collectively do (unless we are Vegans) leaves us a smaller window to yell at Vick through than many here want to admit.

---

[HCE SuiGeneris]

1. Michael Vick = hide thread

[cleanhippie]

3. Apparently not, it seems instead that Michael Vick = reply

[cleanhippie]

2. You stop that right this minute!

Pointing out hypocrisy is SO unbecoming.

[Teaser]

4. depends how you kill your meat

I could give a damn about the killing personally, it's suffering that matters for me. A lot of factory farm animals have it pretty shitty, so that isn't necessarily a better standard. But you can find meat that is more humanely slaughtered than what Vick's dogs went through. Not saying most meat eaters do that, but it is, in principle, possible.

[SHRED]

10. I agree...

...that the raising of the animal until it is "humanely" killed matters.

I wonder how many then would think raising dogs humanely then killing them humanely would be okay for those who wish to eat dogs?

Or do we then get to a discussion about which animals are more worthy to be raised as pets rather than food?

I raised pigs growing up in 4-H Club and if we make these decision on "personality" and/or "intelligence" then pigs should be raised for pets only.
They are funny, smart, and emotional beings.


---

[shockra]

16. Whole Foods is launching a new animal welfare rating system.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-11-15/business/ct-biz-1114-meat-ranking-20101115_1_animal-welfare-rating-system-highest-rating

Developed by the Global Animal Partnership, a nonprofit group made up of farmers, scientists, retailers, sustainability experts and animal welfare advocates, the rating system aims to address growing consumer concerns over the way animals are raised for food. It could also, not coincidentally, boost sales for certified farmers and participating stores, likely to include another unidentified major national retailer and restaurant group in the coming year, according to the nonprofit.

Its six-step approach establishes baseline standards for all meat sold in the store, while offering producers an opportunity to achieve higher ratings as their animal welfare standards improve based on the program's benchmarks.

So, for example, the highest rating (5+, colored green) would go to a chicken that, among other things, had been bred, hatched and raised on a single farm, lived year-round on pasture covered with at least 75 percent vegetation and had legs that were healthy enough to support it by the time it reached market weight. And the lowest rating (1, colored yellow) would reflect adherence to several dozen baseline provisions about feed, antibiotics and treatment, but also a provision that the animal must not have been caged or crowded.

<snip>

As GAP assembled a board to create the standards, it called on folks from all over the meat map, from ranchers to vegans.

"When we started the meetings, I sat right next to a rancher wearing my PETA shirt, and he thought I was the devil incarnate," remembered Gross. "But over time we realized that our goals are the same. We both want the farmer who treats his animals well to succeed because, in the end, that will reduce animal suffering."

[Teaser]

21. *shrugs*

generally I believe in decreasing the circumference of suffering. Do what you can to make things a bit better for everything, including what you're going to kill.

If people wanted to eat dogs, I don't see a reason that they shouldn't be able to. Wouldn't do it myself.

I've been a vegetarian, and I'd go back if my spouse wasn't such a meat eater, personally.

[flvegan]

5. I don't think it is.

Sure, if you want to compare everyone to a vegan in regards to animal issues one could point out hypocrisy. It's not the case, though. It's like being outraged that an H2 gets 9 mpg, but you live in a house. You still consume natural resources. Can you not hate a rapist for what he's done, even though you have committed violence in your life? Moreover, can you hate a rapist if you're not vegan? People are animals too. And for the knee jerkers, no, I didn't just compare a woman to a dog. I compared a violent act to a violent act. It's called making a point.

On animal issues, I'll take everyone I can get. I've protested greyhound racetracks and puppy stores standing next to folks wearing leather. I've liberated animals with folks that ate meat. If we had to wait for the uber vegan militia to scream at outrage, that scream would be pretty damn quiet. Imagine if animal shelters turned down anyone wanting to volunteer if they weren't vegans. Pretty silly.

Besides, 99% of all vegans started somewhere. And NONE of us are oh-so perfect. Car tires? Contain animal parts. Many paints? Animal parts. Egads, we shop at supermarkets that sell meat!!!! We give our money to folks that profit off animal suffering. No such thing as perfect under any microscope someone may choose.

Please...keep hating Vick and what he did, no matter what you eat.

[REP]

34. Beautifully stated

And along the lines of what I was going to reply, only not as well said. Plus I'm not vegan.

[Scout]

37. what ^^^he^^^ said n/t

[blondeatlast]

50. Once again, you prove that you are...

one of the absolute wisest and savviest people at DU, even when I disagree with you (which I don't, in this case).

:applause:

[Kali]

6. oh bullshit

if you can't differentiate that is your choice/problem, but most people can tell the difference between human food production and real animal abuse.

and really, if you do want to start with the militant vegan propaganda at least try to learn a little about what you want to bitch about. Geeze where is LeftyMom? at least she tried to know her stuff.

[SHRED]

7. I'm not a vegan nor a vegetarian

I eat whole grains, organic produce, fresh juices, and keep meat consumption to a minimum.

[TorchTheWitch]

11. so the OP is just an attempt at an angle to make what Vick did seem less

evil and heinous.

Massive Fail.

[SHRED]

12. nope

[TorchTheWitch]

14. tell yourself that

Done with you.

[JuniperLea]

31. I guess all that leaves for this OP is flamebait...

and a cry for ridiculousness.

[Bluebear]

9. +

[Luminous Animal]

40. What is the difference? What is the difference between the routine torture

of animals perpetrated by meat factories and the suffering cause by Michael Vick?

[Kali]

41. when did you stop torturing your animal?

your choice of words shows your mindset, you are not likely to be able to hear another perspective so I won't bother beyond this:

there is a vast difference between even conventional animal ag and what vick did, much more so the new "old" movements in small direct sale, farm-to-buyer production

might want to read up on it or try talking/asking somebody involved - but leave the chip somewhere if you want real communication

[Luminous Animal]

42. Again, what makes Vicks torture of animals any diifferent than mass meat production torture?

[beam me up scottie]

8. Not only do they have every right to "bash" him, they have an obligation to do so.

The Voice of the Voiceless

So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs.

I am the voice of the voiceless:
Through me, the dumb shall speak;
Till the deaf world’s ear be made to hear
The cry of the wordless weak.

Oh shame on the mothers of mortals
Who have not stopped to teach
Of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes,
The sorrow that has no speech.

The same Power formed the sparrow
That fashioned man - the King;
The God of the whole gave a living soul
To furred and to feathered thing.

And I am my brother’s keeper,
And I will fight his fight;
And speak the word for beast and bird
Till the world shall set things right.



~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox

If you refuse to be a voice for the voiceless you are complicit; if you do nothing else at least continue to protest all cruelty, as often and as loudly as possible.


This is not a fringe issue, this kind of horrific abuse affects everyone in some way, it is unacceptable.


Send the message.

[Angry Dragon]

13. We can't even get equal rights for people

tell me how we are going to solve the issue of raising and eating animals for food??
We can't feed the people of this world.
The human race has done a poor job of being stewards of this planet.
A lot needs to be fixed.
Where would you like to start??

[fishwax]

15. no, I think it's possible to both eat meat and be appalled by dog fighting

to say nothing of the more graphic aspects of Vick's involvement.

[Onlooker]

17. Vick is a sadist who killed dogs through torture n/t

[tuckessee]

18. I agree that what Vick did is the same as what hunters do.

Especially bow-hunters and anyone who hunts for any other reason than to stave off immediate starvation.

Now if Vick had just made a little jerky out of some of those pooches he'd be a great American.

[Arkana]

23. What would you say to my father then?

He's a man who's voted for every Democrat since McGovern--including down-ticket races--and has been an avid hunter all his life. You want to tell him he's a sociopath? Go right ahead.

[Incitatus]

27. Tuck forgot the sarcasm tag.

ALWAYS use the sarcasm tag, people.

[AnArmyVeteran]

54. This thread is making me feel sad because of how insensitive it's becoming.

My experience:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9627124&mesg_id=9643946

I understand you are being sarcastic, but a lot of others in this thread seem to support cruel people.

[MadHound]

19. Speak for yourself about your food chain.

I get to know my meat, pasture raised, no hormones, no anti-biotics.

Not all of us mindlessly goes to the supermarket.

Oh, and as far as Vick goes, fuck him.

[cliffordu]

20. If god didn't want us to eat beef,

why did he make it taste like hamburger??

[Arkana]

22. Oh please.

Don't make me fucking laugh. You're not going to put me off steak by telling me I'm a sociopathic murderer--PETA and its allies have already tried and I ain't listening.

[glen123098]

24. Everytime you walk you kill hundreds of insects.

[XemaSab]

25. Killing an animal is one thing

Torturing it is another.

I don't eat teh critters because animal cruelty is not acceptable.

[Incitatus]

26. Yes, if you don't know the difference between killing for food and killing for fun. nt

[MichaelHarris]

28. I just got back from

some very cool cow fighting. Won 50 bucks on a heifer that kicked ass!

[ZombieHorde]

29. I disagree with you for the reasons already listed.

I agree factory ranches are cruel, but Vick is sadistic. What sort of mind takes pleasure from the act of torturing dogs with one's bare hands?

He did not just loose his temper one day, his tortures were cold and calculating.

[JuniperLea]

30. Bull... Fucking... Shit...

Humans are omnivores, and some of us go out of our way to eat kosher and other meats and fowl that are treated humanely and killed appropriately so they don't even harbor stress hormones at their time of death.

Seems to me anyone who is this holier than thou would be at peace with their chosen way of life and would have no need to bash.

Comparing omnivores to Vick is beyond the pale... Vick tortured animals for shits and grins and money. Fuck this noise. This OP is beyond ridiculous.

[superduperfarleft]

32. I'm vegan and think Vick is a piece of shit.

You were saying?

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Oh boy...this will end well

:popcorn:

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

35. Bashing someone for inhumane treatment of animals while contributing yourself is hypocritical

Many people who eat commercially raised meat, those plastic wrapped packages from their grocery store, do not understand their contribution, or else figure out a way to ignore it. Me being one of them for many yrs.

Don't need to be vegan, but do need to be aware of how we contribute to inhumanity, even all those mice ripped to shreds during soybean harvests.

Yes, we are hypocrites, yes, it is hypocritical of them. But still we can scold him, and he us.

[Abq_Sarah]

38. There is a difference between

Killing an animal for food and torturing an animal for pleasure.

[uppityperson]

39. I know, and torturing an animal for the pleasure of how it tastes (veal) is wrong

They aren't particularly comparable as to "which is worse" but they are different indeed. Hurting an animal for pleasure is wrong.

Not letting Vicks off at all here.

[Luminous Animal]

43. What is the difference between torturing an animal for food and torturing an animal for pleasure?

Because what we eat for food has been tortured.

[Abq_Sarah]

45. I must have missed that whole underground cow fighting culture

Torturing cows to make them "perform better" is counterproductive as any beef rancher will tell you.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

46. so only underground fighting cultures are torture then, gotcha *thumbs up* n/t

[uppityperson]

47. Do you find the taste of the meat you eat pleasurable?

Torturing animals for pleasure is wrong.

[Abq_Sarah]

48. I'd be perfectly happy as a carnivore

And a heck of a lot healthier as well.

[uppityperson]

49. You'd be pretty constipated also, only eating meat.

You seem to be saying torturing animals and then eating them is ok, whereas torturing them and not eating them is not.

[AnArmyVeteran]

53. You are missing one huge point. Vicious cruelty that brings 'joy' to mentally diseased sociopaths.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9627124&mesg_id=9643946

[CBGLuthier]

36. No. Not in the least.

Nonsense.

[defendandprotect]

44. United Nations has asked public to move to Vegetarianism to SAVE the planet ...!!!

The food is making you ill anyway --

If we won't save the planet will we act to even save our own children?

[Nailzberg]

51. Vick is a dick. And I'm cooking a roast for dinner. So there.

[AnArmyVeteran]

52. There's a huge difference! You don't understand what EVIL is.

When I was a young teenager I raised pigeons. I had about 20 or more. Because I could no longer keep them at my parent's house I decided to let them go. I knew they could take care of themselves in the 'wild' (in another town). I took them several miles away a few times and let them go, but they all kept coming back to my house. My older brother and a friend of his offered to help me take them even farther away from my house so I thought that would be okay. But as soon as we got to a place far enough from the house to let them go my older brother and his friend each reached behind the seat of the truck and pulled out guns. I was horrified when they began shooting all of my pet pigeons while still trapped in the cages. They completely disregarded my crying and emotional protests and even laughed as they continued executing my pet birds.

No, what you are saying is NOT the same. There are evil people in this world and I don't have to look any further than my own family to see it. My older brother is still a sociopathic monster. Even years later my older brother would gleefully brag about killing my pets knowing it would always bring me to tears. Even though that happened years ago I still feel traumatized by it. The level of cruelty exhibited by people like my older brother, or the Michael Vicks of the world, know no boundaries. Maybe Vick has changed but I doubt it. My brother is as evil now as he has always been. After my Mom passed away three years ago I no longer had to be around him or hear about him. I haven't spoken with him since then.

Whenever I hear about any cruel act like what Vick did, I re-live that horrible and cruel day when my older brother slaughtered my pets. No amount of therapy or medication can take away the pain of witnessing something so horrible. Vick didn't just kill and torture animals. He also severely harmed thousands or millions of other people who experenced things as traumatic I did.

There is a difference, a HUGE difference.