Is anyone else's property taxes going through the roof?

[NNN0LHI]

We recently discovered that at the rate our property taxes are rising, by about the same time we get our house paid for the property taxes alone are going to add up to be more than the combined amount of 12(A years worth), of our initial house payments which included principal, interest, property taxes and insurance when we bought this house 21 years ago.

So when we finish paying for this house we will owe more per month just for taxes than we were paying for everything combined when we bought this place.

Anyone else finding themselves in this same situation?

Don

[titaniumsalute]

1. Mine went up 1800 bucks in Palm Beach Co Florida

[NNN0LHI]

2. Is that a one year jump?

[titaniumsalute]

16. yes...2010 to 2011

[hobbit709]

3. In 1990 when we bought the house our property taxes were $400

Last year they were $2500+
The alleged valuation of our house tripled. Meanwhile household income dropped 50%.

[NNN0LHI]

5. We bought this one in 1989 and the taxes were $1200 per year and now they are over $4000

You are going to find yourself in the same position as us when you get your house paid off aren't you?

Don

[hobbit709]

12. Mine would be higher if it wasn't for the homestead exemption.

And in two years, they'll be locked in at whatever they are when I retire. The house should be paid off in 3 months.

[Township75]

4. This is the money that gives living wages/salaries...

to the local govt employees, the teachers, the police, and the firemen. It is what we as Dems should fight for.

IN my area income taxes are going to go up to pay for the pension fund that has doubled since 2006. It's important that we not only walk the walk but talk the talk when we say we support teachers, unions, and a living wage for everyone. So I don't mind.

[NNN0LHI]

8. I should support making my wife and I homeless in a few years?

You are joking aren't you?

Don

[Township75]

11. No I am not.

Should all of those employees be homeless because the state (taxpayers) don't want to pay them anything?

Or should they just live in a slave like status, expected to work without compensation?

Democrats stand behind the unions, teachers, police, firemen, librarians, etc. We support paying them properly.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. wow...that's some fucked up thinking right there

screw that person out of the home they have on some bullshit "all of those employees homeless" crap.

bugger that shite...

sP

[Township75]

20. Ummm, yeah....

because if you can't pay property taxes you get thrown out of your house into the cold with nothing. Exactly!

what did you say about crap?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. and jacking people's rates through the roof is a good idea too

let's make as many people homeless as possible...since you seem to be so concerned about all those homeless gov't employees. wages are stagnant or falling, people aren't spending like they used to, companies aren't making money and hiring like they used to so all those lovely tax streams go stagnant or fall as well...

so let's fuck over all those poor assholes who bought houses...

sP

[ProdigalJunkMail]

23. oh and let's be sure

to make sure and run those people out of their homes so home values plummet as well so we can dry up one of the only tax streams left and around here...THE ONE THAT PAYS TEACHERS...

bugger that shite...

again...

sP

[AtheistCrusader]

45. No, they auction it for whatever it will bring

even if it is far less than what the house might bring on the open market, and you get the difference. Then they kick you out. You can take whatever you can carry with you, and they throw the rest of your stuff on the street.

Nice to see you sensitive to people who can't afford a hike in property taxes, any more than they can afford a hike in heating oil, or food, or anything else this year. All to bolster pensions that were mismanaged by people other than the taxpayers in question.

[NNN0LHI]

30. And after you finish taxing us middle class taxpayers out of existence ...

... who are you going to get to pay all those peoples salaries and retirements?

Any ideas?

Don

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. Don, SSSHHHHHHHHHH! you might end up making sense... n/t

[Freetradesucks]

56. I have a news flash for you...

taxes are everyone's responsibility. Simply saying "tax the rich" doesn't get the job done. You have to pay taxes too.

It is for the common good. In fact, you should probable pay more taxes, like they do in Europe. Things are much better there.

[w8liftinglady]

10. I wish I lived in a state that supported their teachers

Texas is infamous on how they treat their educators.Not all are unionized(my partner is),and they have not seen a COLA in 4 years.They are laying off teachers in droves(See Dallas ISD).
Texas Legislators talk the talk,but they don't want to walk the walk.They privatize everything,then wonder where the money to pay for the roads,the infrastructure is.
The road to Joe Barton's office is paved in gold...on the other side of Ennis,the schools are old and dilapidated.

[Township75]

13. That is the sad truth.

Pols don't want to increase taxes in many states, so that is what happens. IN a repub state like TX it is even worse.

[Democat]

27. Many people want lots of government spending and zero taxes.

It doesn't work that way.

[NNN0LHI]

29. Who was talking about zero taxes?

The value of my house has doubled since I bought it while the property taxes have quadrupled during that same period.

How does that work?

Don

[tinrobot]

42. Wouldn't it be nice if states just raised income taxes...

...on the rich rather than finding more ways to squeeze the middle class?

When taxes are so high, even the teachers, police and fireman can't afford houses.

[rcrush]

51. .

.

[lapislzi]

71. Beware the broad brush

In my red county, (elected) husbands find wives cushy desk jobs and BOTH collect the state's very generous medical plan--that is to say, the spouse collects CASH "in lieu of" medical benefits, which she also receives from her husband. (I'm using the husband/wife example because it's convenient. It works both ways). But the schools are cutting auxiliary personnel, and there's no money to augment the police force, despite questionable development projects being crammed down the voters' throats by developers with connections to...elected officials.

There's money to build the highway department a giant new facility, but the library has to hold bake sales.

And yet, the voters of my district would vote for a steaming pile of dog shit if it had an "R" next to its name. That's why I got out of local politics, after many years. I can't make a difference with this crowd.

[w8liftinglady]

6. my partner's have tripled over the last two years in Texas

...and there has been NOTHING to see for it.

He lives in a crap rural county with potholes....but the nice spot where the tourists go...it has nice roads.(all 2 miles of it)

All I can think is that the money is going into a central fund to help Texas pay down it's debt,while denying they are raising tax rates.

[dixiegrrrrl]

17. Does Texas have homestead deductions?

Here in Ala. you get a certain percent off your property taxes for various reasons because of the homestead
law.
The best part is you pay ZERO property taxes after age 65, ZERO property taxes if you are disabled.

I did not realize that until 2years after we bought the house. Now we are exempt.


We do pay a very high sales tax here, tho. 9.5%. On everything, including food.

[sammytko]

28. I'm in Texas. We pay zero propety taxes - 100% disabled veteran

exemption on my hubby's part. This is the first year of not paying, but our taxes are generally reasonable - 1200 for house and 1.3 acres of land in a small town.

[Nite Owl]

7. I'm in NYS so this isn't unusual

here. All they do is rise. I'm looking for a smaller house and the taxes are a major consideration in what I will buy.
When Bush's tax cuts were being discussed way back in 2002? Gov. Dean said that lower taxes for the wealthy would mean higher taxes for middle class because towns would need the money and they would have to raise taxes. He was right as usual.

[KharmaTrain]

9. The Evaluations Are Out Of Whack

Consider this an effect of the bubble. Our last tax bill was up and I did a little snooping. Somehow they had my property valued at 350k...a big jump over their past valuation and done at what was the peak of the real estate bubble. I just had my house reappraised for far less but in our area the taxes are based on a three-four year "average" that usually means the highest property value that means the highest possible tax. I've heard of this happening in other areas...especially certain areas of Chicago. IRC, the taxes on President Obama's house in Hyde Park went way up for this same reason.

If this is the case, one should assume that in another year or so when the next evaluation happens, taxes should drop. Not a pleasant prospect for the cash-strapped state and local governments.

[MadHound]

14. And you didn't get to vote on these raises?

I find that hard to believe, because virtually every rise in property taxes is put to the test of the ballot box before it is enacted, at least in every state that I know of.

[TransitJohn]

24. Wow, I've never heard of doing that.

We get to vote for County Assessor, but the valuations are all done by that office holder.

[donco6]

54. Not valuations, the mill levies.

Here in Colorado all mill levy increases have to be approved by voters.

[HereSince1628]

15. Seems like that been going on for a long time...

Property tax linked to changing home values has been doing that since at least the end of WWII.

[NNN0LHI]

19. I wasn't under any illusion that they would never increase

I just never thought that they would go up to the point that they exceeded what my initial house payment was.

Don

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. there are people here who inherited homes

who are now losing them thanks to this shit...homes that were in their families for a couple of generations or more...

so nice of our gov't to steal people's homes by jacking their taxes...

sP

[Gaedel]

68. Very common in a time of rising house values

If you have been in your house any length of time, your monthly escrow (taxes and insurance)is verly likely to exceed your monthly principal and interest payment.

My property taxes actually went down this year despite a millage increase as they devalued my home by 20% from last years assessment.

[Gman]

21. For us it's school taxes

and I vehemently was against the school district half billion dollar bond referendum during the GE. The last time they passed a bond election like this our taxes doubled. I wouldn't mind except they are have no clue what they are doing with the money. It's like they just sit around in the middle of a big pile of money, throw it in the air and yell, "Yippee!" As are a great many school districts, they are incredibly inefficient.

Plus, so they can run for reelection and say they didn't raise taxes, they use the property appraisal district to do their dirty work and raise property values to ridiculously stupid levels to increase revenue.

[Starry Messenger]

25. I can't afford a house on a teacher's salary here in CA. n/t

[madmax]

32. I can't afford lunch in CA. nt

[Starry Messenger]

43. You still pay a nickel for a sandwich in NC?

I take my lunch to school, I'm not living high on the hog here.

[madmax]

49. Wasn't being snarky

We went to a wedding in CA and just found the price of real estate, food more expensive. I've only been in NC for 3 years. It's definately cheaper here than in NJ where I was born and raised.

NJ real estate and property taxes are killers. If I'm not mistaken taxes are the highest in the country and at least CA is a very beautiful state. Not so much in NJ.

[Starry Messenger]

50. I apologize for being snappy and defensive.

It was very sweet of you to come back and reply. It is very expensive here, but my parents like me close by and I feel better knowing I can get to them if they need me. Dad is turning 70 and getting a little fragile.

[madmax]

57. I didn't leave NJ until my Mom passed so I understand.

:toast: We have to stick together because this country is sure going down the crapper fast. :hug:

[Recursion]

31. There's an easy solution: rent

Problem solved.

[rucky]

34. Goes up when the building property taxes go up.

It's passed through to you. Maybe if you sign a 10-year lease or something you can beat it for awhile.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. Yup. Landlords pass along the savings in taxes they don't have to pay.

Uh, in no event will your rent be less than the property taxes the landlord pays.

[AtheistCrusader]

47. On what planet is that a solution?

Clearly not on this one, with the landlord passing on the cost of the taxes to the tenant.

I mean really, did you ACTUALLY think that was a solution?

[Recursion]

58. Landlords get massive property tax breaks

And, yes, as prices for buying have quadrupled in my area in the past decade, my rent is only about 5% higher.

[Aaria]

35. My homes value went from $140k to $250K in a down market. Nice

[uppityperson]

48. That is what happened to us also. No recent comps so they went back several yrs

to assess our house at what sold then. There are no comps because nothing is selling, or minimal is. So what is my house worth on the market? I am sure I could sell it at a fraction of what it assessed at and can not at what the assessed value is.

[Aaria]

52. Oregon froze it's property taxes so this is their way of hiking their income.

[mopinko]

36. hey, it's election time

just had county, city coming up. our's were less than we expected.

[Dreamer Tatum]

37. Will bookmark some of these replies when the usual Prop 13 BS gets mentioned

Odd how repealing Prop 13 is the answer to CA's woes, but no one else seems to like tax increases when it applies to them. Hm.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

40. Have you stopped to think what you get for that?

If you think you're being overcharged, I'm sure there are council meetings you could bring the issue up at.

[tinrobot]

41. One reason to like Prop 13 here in California

Prop 13 limits radical tax increases like that. My taxes are maybe 15-20% higher than when I bought my house 14 years ago.

The house itself is worth 3-4 times what I paid for it back then. In most other states, my taxes would have gone up 3-4 times as well. I couldn't afford that.

[ProudDad]

62. As are corporate property taxes...just like you

It's very nice that you're benefiting at the expense of the majority of home owners in California, many of them your "neighbors", who are paying significantly higher property tax rates for the crime of buying their home after you did...

How wonderful for you...

"Property taxes", like sales taxes are EXTREMELY regressive and the burdens fall mainly on the Working Class...

[tinrobot]

67. Buying a house I can afford is a crime?

The crime is called the real estate bubble, which created speculation that drove up the price of housing and the associated taxes -- all while the banks profited.

I'm not a speculator, I bought carefully and for the long term. I bought a home I can afford and kept my expenses in check. The property tax structure in this state assures that I can continue to live in my house and stay within my "working class" budget. It also assures that my kids enjoy a stable home and a stable neighborhood. I like that, as do the other people who've lived here for decades.

Without this law, property taxes would have quadrupled and forced us out of this now rather nice neighborhood that we all helped to create. The upper middle class speculators, who originally drove up our prices, would have totally taken over this place and destroyed it.

Thanks to Prop 13, we still have a nice eclectic mix of working class and artistic people here, and there's a strong community vibe. That is NOT a crime.

[City Lights]

44. Ours when down by 7%.

They're still too high, but at least they went down this year.

[DailyGrind51]

46. How do "they" expect to pay higher property taxes on homes purchased when "we"

had better paying jobs? The Republicans in Illinois want income taxes frozen, but want to permit property taxes to rise. Unfortunately, the "machine" Democrats are willing to let them get away with it. The Progressive Dems want the emphasis on income, with lower property taxes.

[mia]

53. Home value & taxes are down 50% since 2006.

Coral Gables, FL

[donco6]

55. Not here. Ours are about the same. Colorado.

[davsand]

59. Don, I know you are in Illinois so I'll try and answer a few of your questions.

Sigh. I am one of "THOSE people" (an Assessor, in other words) here in Illinois. I'm thinking you are not in Cook County, so I am gonna answer you with that understanding--OK? (Cook has its own set of laws, and the rest of Illinois' laws bear little to no resemblance...)

In Illinois, your property is supposed to be assessed at one third of what the tax man thinks it would sell for. Assessors use a system called "mass appraisal" that is required by law. Any time you have the word "mass" in a system you just know that something is gonna be wrong in there, and our assessment system is no exception. That is why you have an avenue of appeal here in Illinois called The Board of Review. The BOR is your last line of defense at a local level, and they can make a big difference to you if you appeal to them and win.

It sounds to me like you are the typical taxpayer (nice to know you are typical--eh?) that you feel your taxes are just too high, and you are frustrated as hell by this system. I have ONE simple question for you--DO you think your house would actually sell for what the tax man says it is worth? If your honest answer to that question is that you think your house is over valued (and it is entirely possible/probable given the fact that our assessment system is not terribly precise) then you need to appeal your value to the local Board of Review.

My best advice to you without any surety what county you are in, is to tell you to hire an appraisal done on your house and submit that to your local BOR during the time of year that they hear assessment complaints. I cannot say for sure what that BOR will do, but I will tell you with all certainty, that the Illinois Property Tax Appeal Board will accept an appraisal done by a licensed Illinois Appraiser as compelling evidence to reduce your valuation (assuming, of course that the appraisal shows a value lower than the tax man's assessment...)

The only other avenue to reduce your tax bill would be to start attending the levy body hearings where all those taxing districts decide the annual levy. That is time consuming, however, by the time you go to all different those hearings, and frankly they could give a crap what one guy thinks, IMO.

I'll be happy to offer you whatever advice or info you need if you really want to challenge your taxes. Just shoot me a pm.

Regards!




Laura

[NNN0LHI]

60. Thank you so much for replying to this thread Laura

I am in Kankakee County and they use some kind of crazy "multiplier" system to figure our appraised value that I have no clue as to how it works.

I had just assumed that when I moved in here if my taxes were $1200 when I moved in and if the value of my house were to double that my taxes might very well also double. That made complete sense to me. Seemed logical. So I figured I would be able to continue living here after I was retired and my house was paid for. I paid $95 thousand for this house in 1989 and right before the bubble broke we probably could have got $240 thousand for it. Now I would estimate the appraised value in the $170-175 range if I got really lucky. But my property taxes have nearly quadrupled. Those numbers don't seem to add up. For my taxes to be over $4000 a year now my house should have an appraised value near $400 thousand but that is not the case. Not even close. Less than half that. See what I am trying to say here? Was I wrong to assume back when we bought this house while trying to compute my future property taxes in decades to come that my future property taxes would be directly tied to the value of my house? Or am I missing something here? In other words, where did we go wrong?

Any help explaining what may have happened here would be greatly appreciated.

I may have to go the Illinois Property Tax Appeal Board route as you suggested but the fee for a new appraisal will cost another $500 dollars or so that I don't really have.

Thank you in advance.

Don

[davsand]

69. Property values went thru the roof if you want the very short answer...

Seriously--if you put average annual property values on a line graph from WW1 to date, you will see dips and peaks with an overall trend of appreciation over the course of about 20 to 25 years (about as long as it would take to buy the house, live in it, and raise your family...) People began to view real estate as a way to build wealth, and a lot of people saw owning a home as one additional form of retirement planning. Suddenly, about ten or twelve years ago, the real estate market (remember--this is a national thing) took off and hit a HUGE straight line climb in value. Literally, it was a vertical line upward on that line graph up to about 2006 or maybe even early 2007.

We all are cognizant of what happened to the real estate market at that point--thus we have the conventional wisdom that "everybody knows" the real estate market is in the crapper. The Wall Street Journal says so. So does the Chicago Trib, the New York times and every other "news" outlet you can think of. Ain't NO denying it--values have declined overall in one way or another. I defy you to think of any volatile market that is immune to periodic decline, but still, people are shocked that real estate values have adjusted. (Go figure!)

When you get an assessment notice (and they are REQUIRED by law to send you one anytime your value is increased!) it will show an assessed value. That assessed value is (by law) one third of your market value. That Assessed value is probably made up of at least a couple different numbers. One is the Land AV and the other is the Building or (you gotta love this term) IMPROVEMENT AV. Lots of people get thrown by the use of the term Improvement because they think it means something like a building addition or they put new siding on. Nope, all that is would be an fancy way of saying the building value. If you multiply your total Assessed Value by three that should give you an idea of what market value your Assessor has on your house.

Now, this next part is probably one of the worst parts of assessment to explain, and it confuses hell out of people so please forgive me if I sound like I'm a horrible geek or (worse yet) I make it sound like a bunch of techno-jargon crap...

Assessors use sales data that is behind the curve on the time-line. Unlike real estate appraisers (which I also do) assessors are using data from a sales study that covers the PRIOR three years. When you hire an appraiser for something like a re-fi on your house, (or any other reason why somebody hires an appraiser) they are using data that is usually less than a a few months old. In a situation like we face now (today's declining markets) you can easily see how much difference the last couple of years have made in home values--and that translates directly into values for property assessments that are too high.

This system of using three years' worth of data came into being at a time when values were going up on real estate. It actually insulated property owners from getting a huge value bump all at one time if a market suddenly caught fire. As an owner, most likely, you got an assessment notice and thought, "yeah, my house is probably worth that--it might even be worth more!" Now that the markets are in decline, that same mechanism works against homeowners, but it does protect the taxing bodies from having the rug pulled out from under their budget--it gives them a chance to plan for the decline in values that will decrease their funds. You get your notice and want to lynch the assessor for being an idjit that thinks your house is worth too much, but the schools and the local government thinks, "Aw Crap! We gotta pass a tax referendum or we are all gonna be broke in a year or two..."

Consider this, does the average teacher make the same salary that they made in 1989? Probably not. How about the Secretary at the Courthouse or the guy that drives the bus for your Mass Transit District? My guess is they probably are costing the taxing bodies more than they used to. For sure, if they have any kind of insurance it is costing somebody more money--and that may be you as a a taxpayer. You made NO mistake to think your taxes are tied to your home value, but you probably didn't take into account the cost increases the taxing bodies have faced over the years. They all have a hand in your pocket, and never think for one second they will be shy about taking what they need for as long as the taxpayers will let them do it.

At the same time your home values skyrocketed, your taxing districts started to need more money. I dunno if you have any way to check this, but you might want to find out the tax rates that were in effect when you bought your house and then compare them to where they are now. It is no big conspiracy, it is not an evil plot--it is just the sucky nature of the Illinois Property Tax System.

I don't know any of the folks on your county Board of Review or else I'd offer to call and get the true gen for you on your assessment. I will tell you that if you want to PM me, I'll be happy to do what I can to help you put together some kind of assessment complaint/appeal. For sure, if you go to the folks at the Illinois Property Tax Appeal Board after a local appeal, I do want to talk to you before you do it because I can maybe save you some headaches.

Peace to you.



Laura

[NNN0LHI]

70. I really do appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me

I am going to try going through the review process and if that doesn't work I am calling a realtor and get this place up for sale. That is the only choices I am left with.

Thank you again.

Don

[ProudDad]

61. ALL regressive taxes are going through the roof...

And all taxes on the rich are still steadily decreasing...

We're LOSING THE CLASS WAR, FOLKS!

[csziggy]

63. My sister's went up to four times what it had been

The property appraiser's office claimed that property sales in her neighborhood warranted the increase. She did her own research, checking out how much comparable houses had sold for in the previous three years. Not ONE of the sales reflected the kind of increase the PA's office was claiming. What had increased was the value of commercial property along US 41 five blocks away - it had gone from abandoned industrial and farming support business ownership to strip malls and gas stations.

My sister got together with others in her little neighborhood and they appealed the increases they had all gotten. All were reversed, but it took over a year and the concerted effort of the neighborhood group to fight it.

It actually was a good thing - about the time they won on property taxes, Wal-Mart bought an old orange grove just south of their neighborhood and tried to get it re-zoned to build a Super Wal-Mart there. Since the neighborhood was already organized, it was easier to fight this commercial incursion into what had been a quiet agricultural and residential area. They actually managed to make it too uncomfortable and expensive for Wal-Mart to bother with trying to move in!

[Paper Roses]

64. Yup, just posted about it yesterday. We are to conserve our

limited dollars so we can pay more taxes to this town. In keeping with everything else I guess.
Discouraging, especially for Seniors and the unemployed who have limited resources.

These old bones are getting mighty tired of trying to keep up with everything.

[Liberal_in_LA]

65. no, not in california

[Throd]

Thanks to Prop 13, no.

[Throd]

66. Thanks to Prop 13, no.

[Pathwalker]

72. Can't happen in Michigan, forbidden by law.

Headley act, I think. Ours are actually lower this year.