My Mom's encounter with the TSA

[Archae]

My Mom is 76 years old, 5 foot nothing and 95 pounds.
And she will chew your ass out if you get on her bad side! :-)
(Even Skittles would run away scared!)

She flew to Sacramento today, from Milwaukee to Kansas City, Denver to Sacramento.

She said she didn't see any of the scanners at any of the airports.
And the woman from TSA was courteous, professional and quick.

Bing bing and it was done.

I've just learned that the libertarian "star" who whined about being screamed at and handcuffed and whatnot made up most of her story.
Video shows her being treated professionally.

So why the big stink?

I see only one reason.

Obama is in favor of the TSA screenings, so the right-wing noise machine has to be against it.

Mom and I did agree that these TSA screenings won't stop terrorists.
But it is mostly to reassure the people going through airports, that they are "doing something."

[Texasgal]

1. That's great!

I am so glad that you Mom didn't have to go through such a humiliating experience!!!

I wish I could say the same for more people. The pats and the scans are not necessary.

[meow mix]

2. why would anyone support groping?

oh because obama supports it means its great... whatever

[phasma ex machina]

6. Fascism makes sensible people feel secure. nt

[Lucian]

3. Just because Obama is for it doesn't make it great.

It's a horrible thing to do to people, feeling them up and bombarding them with x-rays, just so they can fly on a plane.

[Rowdyboy]

4. You're entirely correct....If Obama was against it, the "right-wing noise machine" would

demand naked screenings with mandatory cavity searches.

The entire issue is bullshit intended to divert attention from the truly serious issues. The TSA can sell photos of my private parts for all I care if they can find anyone sick enough to buy them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Glad to know this

but two points.

The machines were mostly turned off for the weekend.

And they only select about 2% of the flying public.

That said your mom is right, it IS security theater. There are so many other things they could do that are not being done... mostly personnel intensive, veyr personnel intensive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Relevant info

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

[Boudica the Lyoness]

8. I'm glad your mum wasn't forced to fight lol.

I heard that on the day of the 'opt out', they were putting people through just the metal detectors and not the rape scans. Travellers were reporting at some airports that the scanners were out of service. I think the TSA became afraid of mass slow down at US airports.

I am very much against these invasive groping and naked picture taking. I can't remember a time I have been more pissed off and I am a liberal, as are many people that are speaking out against it.

I agree that the women who claimed TSA handcuffed her and all that, was not being honest, but there are many other stories, with video that prove the TSA is out of control.

Here is something; http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x528900

[Frances]

9. I've flown across country twice in the last 2 months

I know that not everyone is screened, but if there was a real problem, I think I would have noticed. My husband was patted down while in a wheelchair several times in the past, but the screeners were so nice and so professional. I think all these complaints are just hysteria. Has anyone on DU personally experienced anything that they felt was wrong--other than the fact that no one likes the lines and the inconvenience?

[Archae]

10. Exactly.

TSA people are like cops.

The vast majority are good people, courteous, professional.

You'll have "bad eggs" though, the ones who are on ego trips and get abusive.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

43. It's not about a few bad eggs.

It's the fact they are taking away our civil rights by doing it in the first place!

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I have back in 2004

I was on a wheelchair and the patdown was more intense, let's put it that way, at LAX. It was also something that did not last too long. I almost predict it will not last, and these NEW procedures were put in place just on the first.

Also here...

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

No opt out, no machines...

And I will fly out of a MEXICAN airport... it is not security theater.

And yes we could do it here. We just don't want to.

[daleo]

14. "my husband was patted down while in a wheelchair several times"

What a world we live in.

[Frances]

29. What are your ideas for keeping knives etc

off planes? My husband couldn't go through the scanner (pacemaker) so how else could he be checked?

Security found a knife in my 89-year-old mother's purse when she went through security a few years ago. She told the security people she'd brought it because it was such a good knife for peeling peaches. The security people were extremely nice to her, but, of course, they confiscated the knife. They offered to send it to Mother but she told them just to throw it away.

So, I have personal experience (albeit embarrasing to me) that people you'd least expect could have something that could be a weapon on them. My brother-in-law was accompanying my mother, so if he had been a terrorist, he could have caused trouble by using Mother's knife. Maybe that experience is why I'm more accepting of scanning, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Hmm I have had the pleasure of removing a 25 cal

from one of my patient's belt buckle...

There are ways to do this WITHOUT the nuddie scans. They really do not work.

I take it the X-Ray machine, which has been deemed legal for decades, found the knife? Fine by me.

Oh and somebody who wants to get around all that security still could... of course there is this tempting target called the actual security line....

I am all for security that works, not what makes me feel safe.

Why I had NO ISSUE with mexican security giving my luggage a very thorough check since I got to sweating from a hot flash... they used behavior. It works.

I also used behavior with that gentleman and started my head to toe survey at the belt buckle.

[daleo]

31. Was your 89 year old mother really a threat?

The solution is less paranoia, more common sense, and an acceptance that freedom can entail some low level of risk. There was a time when citizens of a democracy would not have thought otherwise.

[Frances]

48. My mother was definitely not a threat

except for the extreme embarrassment she caused my brother-in-law

However, it would not be hard for someone to hide a weapon on an elderly person

Anyone who remembers war knows that this kind of thing happens. That's what haunts people who have actually been in such situations. Having to kill an old person or a very young person to save your own life or the lives of your comrades doesn't go away. Much better to prevent such a situation from developing.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

44. If a terrorist was to stuff something up his bum or vagina

that's where the TSA would want to look next. Would you submit to a cavity search? How about having it done in public? That's where this is heading.

[alstephenson]

15. I am glad that you weren't botherered,

So all is well. No problems. The world is fine. Thanks for your input!

[tblue37]

40. The naked scanners and "enhanced" pat-downs are new, so flying in the last 2

months would not have exposed you to them.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

42. The soldiers were so nice and so professional

as they lined us up along the ditch bank and gunned us down. :puke:

I get screened because I have a metal artificial ankle.

Do you really think people are angry because of a little inconvenience?

[Gormy Cuss]

47. Yep, I have.

I've detailed it several times here already. At SFO in 2009 (the airport was a test site for the scanners before the national roll out.) First off, it was used as PRIMARY screening -- everyone was steered to the scanners. There were no signs and no announcements. After we passed through the metal detector we were pointed to a machine. I stopped short and asked why, since I cleared the metal detector, I was being sent to the machine. The only reply was an instruction to stand over to the side. After a few minutes another TSA agent came up to me and escorted me to the pat down pen. She gathered up my belongings from the conveyor and brought them over. At this point I thought it was an issue with something I had packed, but she retrieved my belongings to secure them while I was patted down. I asked why I was being patted down and she said because I "refused" to go through the scanner. While she's doing the patdown she asked me repeatedly why I didn't go through the scanner, with a pretty clear implication that I must be hiding something.

This was the old style pat down, with the back of the hand and no groping but it was otherwise thorough. She was nice and professional but that didn't make it a pleasant experience. Had she tried the new grope down version without detailing how invasive it was, I'm pretty sure that I would have slapped her hand away and ended up in jail.

I also have a friend who experienced TSA agents demanding that his wheelchair-bound mother stand for a security pat down. This happened at the same airport.

[TfG]

11. I don't see it as a left/right issue myself

I see it more as a violation of our 4th amendment rights. As I mentioned elsewhere, illegal wiretapping under Bush was wrong, and the body scans and pat downs are wrong too. Without probable cause, these searches are illegal.

On a side note, my sister, who works for Delta, was telling us today about a man who wore a kilt yesterday with no underwear underneath, specifically because of the pat down. She said the person who was patting him down was not too thrilled to do so with him having no underwear underneath. :)

Several members in my family said they'd rather be safe than sorry, but even with the pat downs/body scans, I don't see how it makes us safer when they are random searches anyway. There should be a better way. Why can't they have dogs to sniff out bombs and stuff like that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. They have SOME doggies

it comes down to this. Israelizing the airports means MORE people, training and less money for corps Sorry for being this cynical at this stage.

Yes security is BETTER than it was on 9.11, but it could be that much better.

And good for the gentleman.

You might want to see this too

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

[TfG]

19. I appreciate your input and link

And yes, I think the fact that it would mean less money for the corporations is a big factor.

Really, I'm surprised that such a large percentage of people are okay with body scans/pats downs. And working in criminal justice, I don't see how these searches are legal with no probable cause. I realize that the airline or government can impose security measures that requires someone to go through these scans, but it's just gotten beyond ridiculous. Makes me wonder what will be next and will a majority of Americans continue to be complacent over issues like these.

And it's sad that because a few people try to bring bombs on planes, the rest of society is treated as if they are guilty. It reminds me of being in school when you had a couple of kids who acted up in class and they kept the whole class from going on a field trip.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I agree, it is about fourth amendment

and as far as Americans are concerned, they got no clue what probable cause means. Yes, these things have a LIMITED role, once somebody got probably cause...

Perhaps...

Oh and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[TfG]

51. Thanks for the welcome

and yes, a lot of the clients I have don't even know they have a right to refuse their car to be searched without probable cause. They think if they're stopped by a police officer and if the officer asked to search their vehicle, without anything in plain view, no odors detected, etc. that they have to let him search. And that's not right. Of course, I don't agree with someone out there selling drugs and things like that, but the law should operate within the parameters of what's legal - not what they can get away with.

[avaistheone1]

41. I agree this is a civil liberties issues. It is not a right/left issue.

:kick:

[TfG]

52. Exactly

Whether this issue falls under a repub or dem is besides the point. Although, I do think Bush started this crap after 9/11. But it is continuing to get worse and I don't think we should disregard it just because it's under a dem. It is a violation of our civil liberties. Period.

[Canuckistanian]

16. "Some say" that the scanners were de-activated to defuse the situation during the holidays

We'll see if they're back up and running for Xmas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. When you change planes at an airport do you have to go through security?

I never have. Unless you leave the terminal to go outside and smoke, you don't see security except at the first airport where you board. :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Or if you are coming from a foreign airport

trust me, making a connection coming from mexico city with 55 minutes, immigration, customs AND TSA was all kinds of fun! I made the flight, but just barely.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. But the OP wasn't about coming from a foreign airport

I don't understand how someone changing planes can comment about airport security. Unless there are airports where you have to go through security when you change planes. I've flown a lot all over the country and have never had to do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Precisely, I gave you the other exception

If you go out to smoke, or you come from a foreign airport...

Oh wait LAX... if you go from one terminal to the other, you can EITHER take the internal system, or the outside train... outside, means TSA.

San Diego Lindbergh I guess if you came through the commuter terminal and you needed to go to T-1 or T-2, mind you that has never happened to me... but theoretically that one you could have that issue.

[mwooldri]

25. YYZ is for me an odd experience.

(That's Toronto Pearson, Canada).

Did a flight from CLT to LHR on Air Canada, changing at YYZ.

Going out to LHR - just like changing any plane in the USA @ YYZ, then clearing UK Customs/Immigration @ LHR. IIRC the lines were a little long that time @ LHR, but the official helping people get into the right line at LHR saw my burgundy passport and despite my protests of having my wife and her cousin on US passports it was through the EU line we were presented (well what EU line???) - and we were off to baggage claim much quicker than going through the non EU line, despite I was the only eligible person for that line.

Coming back to CLT from LHR - you have to clear Canadian Customs and Immigration - and then before you board your plane to the USA you have to also clear US Customs and Immigration. I guess the reason it's done like this is because there's lots of smaller airports in the USA that don't have the full facilities to receive a load of non citizens and can't process them efficiently.

This experience for me was before 9/11 but AFAIK it's the same way today.

[RC]

32. Try going through Kansas City sometime.

Each gate, or pair of gates, has it own security. To change planes, you have to leave the secure area and go through security again to get to the next gate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. I live in KC

So I've never had to change planes here.

[sabrina 1]

21. Why the big stink? Because it has been an issue for Civil

Rights groups nd Liberals for years, especially when Bush was president. The reason your mom was able to go through security without being hassled or losing her any of her rights, is BECAUSE of the years-long fight by Civil Rights groups, not just in this country but around the globe.

When those machines were first introduced in 2004 there was immediate outrage on the left. I remember it well. The left and some on the right, libertarians, people who care about stopping the government from using fear to take away rights, went to work immediately to stop them from being used and they succeeded. Until last year.

If that fight had not been taken on under Bush, those machines would be everywhere today and people would have no right to refuse to use them.

I am so grateful for those who protected our rights back then. It was not easy. But now, all that work has been dealt a serious blow since Democrats finally allowed those abusive machines into our airports. After six years of success, it took a Democratic administration to do what Bush could not do.

If these abuses are not opposed, there will be more, and more. Fortunately those fighting for our Constitutional rights did have a few victories over the past few weeks. The TSA has had to scale back on their abusive treatment of travelers due to the reactions of those who remain vigilent even if you did not know about it.

So you can thank Liberals once again for protecting your and your mom's right to travel freely in this democracy so far. But with this set back, it makes the work for those fighting, a little harder. They will need support. There is a lot of money involved in the acceptance of these machines. I never thought they would give up. I just didn't think it would be Democrats who would do it.

[LibDemAlways]

23. Your mother is lucky. I once saw someone's mother at an airport

checkpoint not being treated so well. She was very elderly and in a wheelchair. A TSA agent yanked her shoes off and ordered her to stand. She couldn't, and two burly guys were called in to hold her up - one under each arm. She was then wanded and received a bra strap pat down. The look on her face still haunts me. She was terrified. Her daughter, also a senior citizen, stood nearby crying and repeating over and over, "My mother has Alzheimers. Please leave her alone."

I am pleased for you that your mother was treated well. That is certainly not the case for everybody.

I am a lifelong Democrat, and I honestly do not believe this is a left/right issue. It is a 4th amendment issue and a common sense issue. Harassing citizens just trying to go about their business is bad enough, but picking on the elderly and infirm is just plain wrong.

[SheilaT]

26. The question to be asked is:

Why should every single person boarding an airplane be assumed to be a terrorist?

It's been a little over three years since the last time I've flown, and I get more and more reluctant to fly all the time. I got tired of seeing elderly nuns and small children being selected for additional security measures. While I never witnessed anything quite as awful as the elderly mother with Alzheimer's being manhandled, I saw some very young children getting very upset by being forced to walk by themselves through the metal detector. I'm talking kids who were just about walking.

What El Al does is simply not possible in this country. We fly more people out of places like Cincinnati every day than they do over their entire system in a week.

The claim that our security measures are intended to keep us one step ahead of the terrorists is at best a joke. We are always well behind them. Shoe bomber? After that (not before) everyone has to take off their shoes. Underwear bomber? After that, (not before) everyone has to be x-rayed or aggressively patted down in a manner that anywhere else would be illegal.

There simply is no such thing as 100% security. We need to return to sanity, stop treating each and every passenger like a criminal, and just go on with our normal business.

It would be so easy for terrorists to do some stuff that would really freak out everyone. I have no trouble thinking of scenarios myself, and I don't consider myself to be all that imaginative. Maybe the supposed terrorists really are not here, really are not very competent, really only want to lure us into spending a lot of money and energy into being afraid, really afraid all the time. They've succeeded.

[beyurslf]

27. My brother in law flew from Atlanta to Wichita yesterday and he was selected for a screen.

he said they rubbed all over and all but grabbed his family jewels. When they finished, he told them he's been in Atlanta all year and his wife is in Wichita and he hasn't seen her in months so that was the most action he'd gotten in awhile. He said they just looked at him funny but he was just trying to make a light-hearted joke. He said the only thing that really bugged him was that he was right in front of everyone with people all watching him get groped and felt up. I imagine all the news about it recently really made people watch and some may have even taped it on their phones in case something happened so they could put it on youtube.

[AnnieBW]

28. TSA Voting To Unionize

I saw something a few days ago about the TSA screeners voting to unionize. That must be why this whole thing is going on.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

45. No it isn't

I'm pro union. I have been in trade unions in England and was a Teamster here in the US.

Stop trying to make it a left right issue.

[Broken_Hero]

33. My fathers encounter

with the TSA at Sea-Tac airport was not as easy. My father is a Vietnam vet, an IBEW union member, proud Dem his whole life, and the TSA at Sea-Tac made him drop his pants and show his underwear.

Summer of 08 he was going through security at Sea-Tac. The TSA lady told my father to remove his suspenders because of the metal on the clips. My dad complied, and he had to hold his pants up with his hands. The agent then told my father to raise both of his arms so that she could use her wand on him. My father refused, stating that he couldn't hold up both of his arms. The agent got agitated and asked why he couldn't. My father stated that if he did so his pants would drop down. The lady said that his pants would stay up, and that the wand process would only take a few moments. My dad complied, and his pants dropped to the ground.

[haele]

34. My encounter two days ago at San Diego Int'l (the "don't touch my junk" airport)

Me on crutches, Laz with his cane, the kidlet going out on an early morning flight to see FIL in San Antonio.
We go to the skycap by the terminal, a porter notices the crutches and says - take the wheelchair.
In fact, he insists I get into a wheelchair. several times, until I agree, because I'm getting tired waiting in the outdoor baggage check.
He sets me up in the cheap airport wheelchair with my crutches positions so my bad leg is up (per doctor's orders), escorts us past the 20 or so minute long line for security, into the handicapped gate, helps me get my carry-on, jacket, and shoes into the bins while the rest of my family walk through the metal detector to wait for me to go through to - urrg, "pat down", because I can't get through the detector. No porno scanner for Laz or the kidlet!
So, I get wheeled into pat-down. The TSA inspector is very, very professional, telling me exactly what she is going to do, and lets me know that if there are any medical devices or implants, let her know so she can get a professional to check those.
The pat-down was less intrusive than a quick lint-brush wipedown of a dark suit by a friend or trusted co-worker before an important meeting (multiple pet owners know what I'm talking about...) and didn't cover the amount of the body area that a regular cursory police pat-down did.
She didn't even touch the bra area except at the shoulder straps and back. What she seemed to be checking for mostly was bomb residue; my leg wraps were wiped for the residue, as well as my shoes, the wheelchair seat and wheelchair back. (I had to raise myself up for her to wipe the seat.)

It wasn't pleasant, to say the least, but it certainly wasn't groping, and the woman was definitely professional about it.
And since I was in a wheelchair, it saved us a good half hour or so in line.

We did see that there was at least one backscatter x-ray scanner, but most people were being herded through the metal detectors, with the only "pat-down" inspections being done for the usual reason - setting off the metal detector more than twice.

So, for at least the main Thanksgiving travel day, it wasn't so bad. But then, they might have had their "A-team" members on duty just to ensure that there would be no problems.

My suggestion to TSA would be - ditch the x-ray scanners and get those "puff" machines that detect explosive residue, and route people through both the residue and metal detectors. Only pat-downs for people who fail the detectors. This should create a far more realistically secure travel environment than random porno-scanning, pat-downs, and accusations of poorly trained TSA employees with Napoleon complexes.

Haele (not looking forward to the return trip that requires getting to the airport at 6am Sunday Morning)

[LisaL]

36. As I understand it TSA

had problems with maintenance of the puff machines so they have no plans to get more of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. No they did not

and they will get rid of these machines because they are not mature as a technology.

We love to throw machines at the problem... very american trait

[haele]

46. Other countries have been developing upgraded versions of those detectors

The technology for explosive detection is on track to be reliable and accurate within the next two years. But, of course, ultimatly, despite what Federal contract requirements say, it's a matter of shareholders and political influence as to who gets the contract for that sort of system...
Until then, bomb sniffing dogs are the most accurate and cheap bomb detection force available- as any soldier or marine in Iraq and Afghanistan can tell you...

Haele

[flyarm]

38. The Puff machines have been proven a failure and have at many airports been removed

a total embarrassment for TSA, and the Feds for buying that junk!

[tuckessee]

39. So since your mom travelled hassle-free one day that means everyone else does all the time?

What brilliant logic!

[Archae]

50. No.

I was just relating her experience.

[librechik]

49. So if we are against the enhanced TSA screening, we are right wingers?

Saw this one coming down Broadway. Nice wedge issue, isn't it? especially since we all agree the new screening won't stop terrorists and is mainly a big show to make it look like they deserve their funding.

[Pathwalker]

53. Anecdotal experience does not constitute proof of anything.

Not without a double blind scientific study. But you knew that, right?

Are there a lot of 76 year old female terrorists?