EPA rates Chevy Volt 'all-electric' mpg at 93, range at 35 miles

[DainBramaged]

The 2011 Chevrolet Volt, an innovative plug-in hybrid, received not one but three different mileage ratings from the U.S. EPA today.

On electricity alone, the Volt achieves the equivalent of 93 mpg.

Powered solely by the gasoline engine, the Volt gets 37 mpg.

Running on a combination of electricity and gasoline, the Volt generates the equivalent of 60 mpg, the EPA determined.


Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101124/OEM05/101129944/1186#ixzz16QTVKL1b

[truedelphi]

1. This is perfect for many households where the second car doesn't need to

Go great distances.

One partner is commuting long distances, the other is driving kids to school, running a home based business with occasional meetings at local restaurants or offices.

And once we have "electricty stations" maybe this car will even be good for weekend get aways?

[Subdivisions]

2. A very good urban solution. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

32. Except your budget for a second car probably isn't $30,000 and up

My second car is the entry level Hyundai Accent at under $10,000

[veganlush]

3. The Volt is not a typical hybrid

The gasoline motor never propels the car, it is not attached to the drive-train. The gasoline motor is an on-board battery charger, period. The Volt's range is about 300 miles, that is, it goes 35-40 miles on a fully charged battery, the rest of the range is covered by the batteries being re-charged on the go by the gasoline powered battery charger. After about 300 miles, the batteries must be plugged into an external electricity source for a full charge.

[Fumesucker]

6. Apparently that's not entirely true..

At high speeds the Volt engine does connect directly to the drive train.

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

[veganlush]

47. I stand somewhat corrected. thanks for the link. n/t

[madokie]

19. After watching the video from GM concerning the way the Volt operates

you have no clue as to any of it. you need to go to the GM web page and look for how the volt really works and it'll be tittle something along that line too so it should be easy to find. I've watched it a couple times and none of what you're saying here is correct according to GM.

I'm a ford man myself and will be waiting on the focus or fusion EV. No chance of my buying a GM product. :hi:
didn't mean to rain on your parade but the truth should be brought out concerning the way the volt operates.

[veganlush]

48. I stand corrected.

although it's really kind of a gray area, direct or indirect, I mean even in the case of a separate, gas powered battery charger, you could still say that the gas motor supplies the power. The point i find interesting about the volt is that they say 70% of Americans live within a 40 mile work commute. This would mean most people could get to work and back each day burning very very little to no gas at all. If alot of people buy volts, that could mean a significant reduction in gasoline consumption. This is just the beginning, remember what cellphone were like at first? EV's are gonna play a huge role in the near future in my humble opinion.

[madokie]

49. I agree 100%

40 mile range would do us 95% or our driving. Which isn't much as we're getting on in the years with most family close by we don't do a lot of driving.

my apologies to you for the un-necessary snark by me. Sorry

a gallon of gas burned produces a tad over 20 pounds of co2 and I doubt that charging the batteries in the volt by the plug would even be in the same ballpark. The EV wins hands down :hi:
peace

[veganlush]

50. apology not required..

..but accepted! :hi:

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. CO2 emissions seem about the same, for current electricity generation mix

See reply #41: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9634877&mesg_id=9637536

[GSLevel9]

4. unimpressed....

much ado about nothing. We SHOULD have got Europe's clean-diesel cars that cost $15,000-$20,000 and pull in 50mpg+

[Dennis Donovan]

5. "clean-diesel"

:rofl:

Next, you're gonna tell me there's clean COAL???:spray:

[EOTE]

7. What's wrong with clean diesel?

Sure, any burning of petrochemicals is not good for the environment, but these clean diesels are far better for the environment than the typical lead-free burner. One must not judge clean diesels by emissions emitted per gallon of fuel burnt basis as most diesels get far better fuel economy than their gas counterparts. When you judge clean diesels on emissions per mile driven (which is a metric that actually means something), clean diesels do extremely well. Most clean diesels have less of an environmental impact than the typical hybrid.

[Dennis Donovan]

8. "any burning of petrochemicals is not good for the environment..."

I didn't have to say more...:hi:

[doc03]

10. You have to charge the Volt with electricity, right? You either

burn gasoline to run the on-board generator or use house current. The vast majority of our electricity is generated from burning coal, gas or oil. How does that make a Volt more green that a clean diesel?

[truedelphi]

15. But within ten years, given the proper amount of "suction"

That is, Tax Credits, (like we had under Carter), the average American home owner could have wind and solar created electricity there at their disposal. (And be off the grid.)

And that electricity could easily power up a car like the Prius or the Volt.

[Dennis Donovan]

16. ...and THAT'S where it needs to end. Wind, solar and tidal energy need to be developed...

...so there will never be a need for fossil fuels.

[quiller4]

26. Nearly half of our electricity is from hydro rather than the burning

of coal, gas or oil. If you live in WA OR or CA all electric is hydro

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. You figures are a bit out

Fairly close for you in Washington state; but not so good for the country, or California.

Hydro is one of the largest producers of electricity in the United States. Water power supplies about 10 percent of the entire electricity that we use. In states with high mountains and lots of rivers, even more electricity if made by hydro power. In California, for example, about 15 percent of all the electricity comes from hydroelectric.

The state of Washington leads the nation in hydroelectricity. The Grand Coulee, Chief Joseph and John Day dams are three of six major dams on the Columbia River. About 87 percent of the electricity made in Washington state is produced by hydroelectric facilities. Some of that electricity is exported from the state and used in other states.

http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter12.html

[doc03]

31. I live in Ohio I believe the last I heard about 87% of our

electricity comes from coal, oil or gas.

[backscatter712]

30. You're putting less CO2 in the atmosphere charging from AC current.

Granted, it's not zero C02 - that electricity has to come from somewhere, and frequently, it's coal. Even so, it's less overall pollution than a conventional gasoline burner.

And there is the potential for the electricity charging up the car to be generated cleanly - from solar, wind, etc. It's potential.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. An estimate of the CO2 to go 100 miles from electricity and gasoline

The sticker says 36 kWh per 100 miles when all electric, and 2.7 gallons per 100 miles when all gasoline.

EPA figures for CO2 emissions:

1 kWh = 0.718 kg CO2, averaged over the US generation system non-baseload generation

1 gallon gasoline = 8.89 kg CO2

So, by electricity, 100 miles emits 36 * 0.718 = 25.8 kg CO2
By gasoline, 100 miles emits 2.7 * 8.89 = 24.0 kg CO2

So, environmentally, the Volt is good only if the extra electricity demand is satisfied by a less carbon-intensive form than the US currently manages. Still, for the future, it's worth having the demand there now - if future plants are solar, wind, hydro or nuclear (or at least natural gas), the CO2 from electricity generation will decrease.

[GSLevel9]

55. you sure about that?

How does that coal get to the power plant? Big trains? Ok... how is that coal extracted from the ground? By huge smoke belching Caterpillar tractors and monster sized trucks that haul the coal to the freight yard?

So tell me... how MUCH pollution is produced per ton of coal before it even arrives at the power plant to be BURNED?

[EOTE]

11. Ahhhh, I see.

Because we can't completely eliminate the burning of petrochemicals, we should settle for inefficient technologies and not strive to reduce our current impact. Makes sense to me. The point is that many clean diesels have a lesser environmental impact than many hybrid vehicles. I'm guessing you have no issue with the promotion of hybrid vehicles.

[jaybeat]

12. Please remember that there are other benefits to diesel

Since a comparably-sized diesel engine will provide almost twice the fuel economy, diesel engines burn far less petrochemicals, and less is good. All or nothing solutions will leave us with... nothing. Diesel-hybrids also can top 100 mpg, all day, every day, without the Volt's range limitation.

Also, keep in mind that when running on bio-diesel, net greenhouse gas emissions approach zero, something even a pure EV can't claim, unless the batteries are charged by 100% renewables (which I support, of course, but can be pretty hard to verify on your local grid).

Not saying the Volt is bad, mind you, but your contempt for diesels is misplaced, IMO.

[EOTE]

14. Snap! NT

[Motown_Johnny]

25. I would love to see a link to a diesel hybrid that tops 100mpg

and you need to consider the greenhouse gases expelled while producing and transporting bio-diesel before you try to claim it is near net zero

[jaybeat]

62. I was referring to the potential of the technology, but since you asked...

This thing looks pretty experimental but claims 230 mpg:

http://inhabitat.com/aptera-diesel-electric-hybrid/

This article reviews a variety of prototypes and designs with mileage between 60 and 80...

http://www.hybridcars.com/types-systems/persistent-and-elusive-dream-diesel-hybrid-26410.html

In fact, farther down the article is this little nugget:

The GM engineers are even reported to be considering a diesel version of the plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt. The prospect of a diesel plug-in hybrid—even better if running on biodiesel—could mean operating a car almost entirely on electricity, and using biofuel to extend its range. That would be the holy grail of long range and zero petroleum.

As far as biodiesel is concerned, "near" is of course relative.

Since fossil fuels are normally still used to produce biodiesel, the recycling of CO2 with biodiesel is not 100%, but substituting biodiesel for petroleum diesel reduces life-cycle CO2 emissions by 78%. A 20% biodiesel, 80% petroleum blend reduces CO2 by almost 16%. The percentages may seem low but they equate to huge numbers! In contrast, petrodiesel requires 100% new CO2 to make and emits another 100% more when used. The petrodiesel life cycle emits 178% more CO2 than biodiesel.

More here: http://bdresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=284&Itemid=30

[alfredo]

13. It is a step in the right direction. Any step toward less

dependency on fossil fuels should be encouraged.

I have been watching the progress Audi and Peugeot has made in the past few years. Diesels have dominated LeMans. The Audi is not just fast, it is quiet. They realized that noise is wasted energy, so they worked to eliminate the source of the noise. Their LeMans machines is now quieter, faster, and more fuel efficient.

Also they are working on light weight materials, aerodynamics, and other fuel saving efforts.

We need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels, but we can't do it so quickly that there is no infrastructure in place to handle the switch to electric. We have to consider our aging and vulnerable electrical grid.

I want us off FF's asap, but it will be a monumental task and there will be push back from Republicans and their corporate masters.

[Gaedel]

20. I was talking to a PhD mechanical engineer last week.

We were discussing cars and I asked why we didn't import more diesel cars.

He said that in cleaning up a diesel car you have to trade off between particulate matter and nitrous oxide.

If you clean out all the particulate matter from the emissions, you ramp up the NO. If you try and clean up the NO, you put out far more particulate matter.

Europe has different pollution standards than does the US.

[EOTE]

21. Diesels have fewer emissions per mile driven period.

Per liter burned, yes, diesels tend to have higher emissions, NO and otherwise. However, per mile driven, almost any clean diesel will be far greener than any equivalent gas burner. The fact remains that the great majority of cars on the road are not hybrids, they're not diesels, they're conventional petroleum burners. Getting those cars replaced with affordable, clean diesels will do quite a bit towards reducing the environmental damage of vehicles.

[GSLevel9]

56. of course you're right...

SOME people here "get it".

[GSLevel9]

17. some people just don't get it...

the ONLY people who will buy a $40,000 hybrid are a few middle-upper class progressives.

The 2009 European Car of the Year is the Opel Insignia, a very nice mid-sized 4 door sedan that pulls down 40mpg combined.

The new Audi A4-TDI pulls down 53mpg in the combined cycle.



Here's the deal... I can assure each and every one of you...

Every drop of financially feasible petroleum will be removed from the Earth and burned... and the pollutants will end up in the atmosphere.

It may be burned by a 2011 Volt here in the USA or by a 2050 Ford in China.

It's FOOLISH for someone to think that they're saving the world by driving a Prius/Volt.

It's much more logical to understand that the petroleum WILL COME OUT of the ground for an American user or for a Chinese user.

It makes MUCH more sense to make SURE that every drop of petroleum that comes out of the ground is used efficiently.

The VOLT is a waste of time and money.



If I were King, I'd mandate that every car mfg. produced a $15,000 car powered by a modern diesel powerplant that can average 50mpg combined and less than 150g/km CO2 emissions. And make sure the car can be purchased for $199/mo by nearly anyone.

[doc03]

22. Someone that actually lives in the real world. Our government

is bought and paid for by corporate America. Until fossil fuels prove unprofitable to extract we will depend on them. We all saw what happened when the government tried to take on the health care industry. Now the Republicans control the House and barring some kind of an economic miracle they will control the Senate and Presidency in 2012. So the chance of us going to solar or wind power any time soon is nil.

[Motown_Johnny]

28. economic feasibility is the key

by producing vehicles that are less dependent on fossil fuels you reduce the demand for fossil fuels

the reduced demand reduces price

reduced price reduces economic feasibility


(grotesque over simplification but you either get it or you don't)


The Volt is not the end of the journey, it is just one step in a new direction, that direction being making sure that every drop of petroleum is used efficiently.



No kings here to dictate fuel economy standards, we need to work through the capitalist system.

[Dennis Donovan]

44. some people just don't get it...

We have to STOP the use of fossil fuels because the atmosphere cannot TAKE ANY MORE CARBON. Baby-steps towards this goal will NOT resolve the problem.

You're right... SOME PEOPLE (i.e. YOU) just don't get it.:eyes:

[GSLevel9]

53. OK. So we all stop using FF's tomorrow.

Every last drop of petroleum will THEN be used by every OTHER nation in the world.

You CAN'T stop the use of FF's. They will be used by SOMEONE until the ground runs dry. That's a fact.

What you posted is sooooo "DreamLand".

Every drop of petroleum/nat gas, etc.... will be extracted from the planet and used in the next century or so. YOU can't stop it. One NATION can't stop it. That's called a "fact".

So... you use every last drop efficiently, you start looking to alternative energy sources.

Who's to say that in 10 years the best diesel engine can't pull in 100mpg?

Do you know WHY we don't have the 50mpg+ European clean-diesels? The US carmakers CLAIM that US drivers won't drive the lower powered sub-compacts. I call BS.

[DainBramaged]

33. Really? Like we here at the DU don't already know that

But since you know much ado about everything, why not call the auto manufacturers and ask them why we don't have those little chug-a-bugs yet? OH WAIT, Volkswagen has one here. But since their US sales account for about 2.5% of the total cars sold here I guess those little chuggers aren't very popular.


http://www.vw.com/en/tdi.html


Its TDI® Clean Diesel engine gives the Golf an impressive 30 mpg in the city, 42 on the highway.¹ $22,810.



Gee what was that about cheap chuggers?

[GSLevel9]

57. btw...

when the 2010 TDI models from VW hit the US... they were on waiting lists and were selling for over sticker here.

[doc03]

9. At $40000 for a $18000 car I can buy a tanker load of gas n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

24. this isn't about you

not everything is


this is about taking a step forward toward vehicles that don't run on fossil fuels


My daily commute is less than 35 miles, I could easily go for weeks without burning any gasoline at all (if I put my mind to it) in a Volt. Many other people could do the same.


There is no way we will simply stop using gasoline and start using electric cars without some transition, this is a beginning of that transition.


P.S. If you think you can buy something as nice as the Volt for around $18K then it is clear you have not seen one yet. Go to an auto show will ya?

[doc03]

27. Isn't it based on the Cruze, a $18000 car. What about all that

(clean) coal to produce the elctricity you charge it with? I don't claim to know for sure but I am guessing it is more efficient to burn fossil fuels in a car then to produce and deliver the same amount of energy to your home by way of the grid. I said you can buy one hell of a lot of gasoline for $22,000. The same goes for a hybrid the premium you pay is more than the savings on gas unless it goes much higher.

[DainBramaged]

34. Hmmm, someone doesn't likey GM's little innovation....

There has to be a start some damn place, give fucking credit where it is due. The first is not the best, but the first. All technology improves from the starting point.

[Motown_Johnny]

37. Lets compare, shall we?

Overall Length 181.0 in 181.0 in 181.0 in 181.0 in 181.0 in
Overall Width 70.7 in 70.7 in 70.7 in 70.7 in 70.7 in
Overall Height 58.1 in 58.1 in 58.1 in 58.1 in 58.1 in
Wheelbase 105.7 in 105.7 in 105.7 in 105.7 in 105.7 in
Front Head Room 39.3 in 39.3 in 39.3 in 39.3 in 39.3 in
Second Row Head Room 37.9 in 37.9 in 37.9 in 37.9 in 37.9 in
Front Hip Room 53.0 in 53.0 in 53.0 in 53.0 in 53.0 in
Second Row Hip Room 52.4 in 52.4 in 52.4 in 52.4 in 52.4 in
Front Leg Room 42.3 in 42.3 in 42.3 in 42.3 in 42.3 in
Second Row Leg Room 35.4 in 35.4 in 35.4 in 35.4 in 35.4 in
Front Shoulder Room 54.7 in 54.7 in 54.7 in 54.7 in 54.7 in
Second Row Shoulder Room 53.9 in 53.9 in 53.9 in 53.9 in 53.9 in
Seating Capacity 5 5 5 5 5
Cargo Volume 15.4 ft³ 15.4 ft³ 15.4 ft³ 15.4 ft³ 15.4 ft³
Front Tread Width 60.7 in 60.7 in 60.7 in 60.7 in 60.7 in
Rear Tread Width 61.3 in 61.3 in 61.3 in 61.3 in 61.3 in
Curb Weight N/A 3102 3102








Overall Length 177.1 in
Overall Width 70.4 in
Overall Height 56.6 in
Wheelbase 105.7 in
Front Head Room 37.8 in
Second Row Head Room 36.0 in
Front Hip Room 53.7 in
Second Row Hip Room 51.2 in
Front Leg Room 42.1 in
Second Row Leg Room 34.1 in
Front Shoulder Room 56.5 in
Second Row Shoulder Room 53.9 in
Seating Capacity 4
Cargo Volume 10.6 ft³
Front Tread Width 61.2 in
Rear Tread Width 62.1 in
Curb Weight 3781




Overall length, different

Overall width, different

Overall height, different

Wheelbase, The Same <-------<<


Every Other Stat.... Different


I could get into materials for the interiors and such but they are not even close, also the Cruze seems to start at about 15,500 (not 18,000)

[doc03]

38. The visibility has to be absolutely horrible out of that thing

although probably a little better than the Camaro. If I could afford to waste $40000 on one I wouldn't be concerned about gas mileage anyway. Well I guess they have to start somewhere, I don't expect it to be a very big seller for years if it even works out for them. GM has a history of coming out with vehicles they claim to be innovative that turn out to be complete failures. The Cruze may start out at $15,000 but the ones I have seen have all run over $18000 and they
were pretty much base models. I have seen a couple LTs that go for over $20000. I sat in a LTZ Cruze and it had to have the hardest most uncomfortable seat I have ever experienced. I will stick with Fords, I didn't have to bail their ass out.

[DainBramaged]

40. Criticism, without even driving one? How bold.

Stick with your Fords you'd not buy a GM product anyway, why be such a curmudgeon about the Volt?

[NuclearDem]

46. That you're showing there is the old Volt concept car

GM recently changed that they're going to be producing the Volt and the Cruze on the same Delta II platform developed by Opel. It doesn't make them the same car, but it does mean they'll look similar and probably have a lot of the same features.

But that doesn't make the Cruze the same thing as the Volt by a long shot.

[GSLevel9]

54. don't bother clouding the fantasy with facts. The fantasy sounds better... nt

[tabasco]

18. Innovative. LOL.

Plug it in to charge it. How boldly innovative.

[Motown_Johnny]

23. that is how electricity works, you plug things in

what did you expect?

all other electric cars need to be plugged in to charge them

the innovation is an on board electric generator capable of charging the battery faster than the electric motors drain it

[surrealAmerican]

35. If it's running entirely on electricity ...

... why would be burning any gas?

I just don't understand what that "MPG equivalent" number is supposed to mean.

[IDemo]

36. It's an electrical comparison to the energy content of a gallon of gas

Standard reformulated gasoline contains about 112,000 BTU/gallon, or 36.6 kilowatt-hours/gallon. If an electric car uses .366 kilowatt hours/mile (a pretty fair estimate), it gets a miles per gallon (equivalent) number of 100.

[blue_onyx]

39. Great!

I hope the Volt is a big hit for GM.

Based on some of the comments, it looks like many DUers stand with Rush Limbaugh on the Volt.

[JNelson6563]

43. 100% agreed.

Well said. Gotta love our DU progressives proudly proclaiming they drive their non-American, non-union cars. Hooray!

Oy.

Julie

[Dennis Donovan]

45. They just DON'T want to give up their muscle cars, I guess....

:shrug:

[Barack_America]

58. Many DUers stand with Rush against the Big 3.

And, from what I've gathered, against American manufacturing in general.

[Kablooie]

42. I like my Prius. -- So there!

[Union Scribe]

51. Why would you brag about that?

Stabbing US workers in the back and throwing in with a company that kills its workers isn't something I'd declare so brazenly. But I guess that's just me.

[DainBramaged]

52. Not just you. Everyfukingone of those Peeus are imported

These are the same folks that insist YOU recycle, won't shop at WalMart, but will stab the UAW and America in the back at the drop of a dollar.

[Kablooie]

59. They plan to build the next generation Pruis here in the U.S.

In Blue Springs Mississippi.

[Kablooie]

60. I sat in a Volt today at the LA Auto show.

It had pretty complex controls. Very futuristic looking.

One problem, the arm rest was short and high so my elbow was constantly running into it.
I couldn't rest my arm on it and I couldn't pull the shift lever back without angling my arm up
because my elbow would run into the arm rest.
It could get very annoying.

That is one thing that annoys me about American cars.
Often there are small details that aren't thought out well and become a continuous aggravation.
I've had the same experience with various American rental cars.