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GA and TX plagued by clashes over religion in the classroom. Religious groups really pushing hard.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:00 PM
Original message
GA and TX plagued by clashes over religion in the classroom. Religious groups really pushing hard.
My belief is that there is no place in the classroom for putting forth the points of view of any religious denomination or ethnic group. That can be accomplished at home or in private schools, and I do not believe public taxpayer money should be used.

The encroachment of these groups on the public school system should concern us. It should especially concern us that there is no political party taking a stand about separation of the religious and the secular in education. So many things are readily accepted now.

From Rob Boston at Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Crusade In The Classroom. Clashes Over Religion In Public Schools Plague Georgia And Texas

Three recent developments bear watching. First off, in Texas, the state legislature may be on the verge of another go-round in the ever-popular “let’s-display-the-Ten-Commandments-in-the-public-schools” crusade.

..."Flynn’s comments expose his real motivation: He believes that displaying the Commandments might affect the morals of young people. That means his crusade is about religion, not patriotism. If Flynn wants to promote patriotism, he would do better to mandate that schools post the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. (Another plus is that there’s only one version of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; there are three versions of the Ten Commandments.)


There is a growing problem with religion in charter schools.

The second problem is also from Texas. Some charter schools there are venturing into the religion business. The Dallas Morning News reports that 20 percent of the state’s charters have religious ties.


That means they get public money.

And third:

Finally, it looks like we’re going to need to keep a close eye on Georgia, where the new chief of staff of the state Education Department is a former staffer of TV Pat Robertson’s American Center for Law and Justice.

Joel Thornton is already off to a shaky start. On a personal blog, he bemoaned the lack of religion in public schools, writing, “We no longer have that moral center. Now, we find ourselves in a culture that not only does not believe, but actually mocks belief in one God. We have gone from the place where it is okay to make fun of belief in God in limited cases, like a Hollywood movie or a book. At the same time, it was not okay to make fun of the core beliefs that surrounded the belief in God.”


Here is more about Joel Thornton's writings from Maureen Downey at the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Get Schooled. DOE chief of staff says too many school systems hostile to Christians

From Thornton's blog:

Modern man is turning further and further from God. The public education system is beholden to the government. Governments around the world are moving further and further away from any foundation of Christian faith. This means that their school systems will, by design and involuntarily, move further from any foundation of Christian faith.

We first saw this in America with the debate over the teaching of evolution in the public schools. The original request by the evolutionists was to grant them equal access to the students on their theories. They turned equal access into access only for evolution. The system that now exists is one that denies any belief in God.

The fight that is accruing in courtrooms around the country is a battle to keep out the simple belief that maybe, just maybe, there is a creator of some type who moved the process of evolution along. Even this is unacceptable to evolutionists.


That "simple belief" has been taught in the home, science is taught in schools. There should be no conflict at all.

Graduates of schools begun by Pat Robertson, as well as the law graduates of Jerry Falwell's law collge...have had an impact on our government that is way out of line. I remember this article from 2007 which pointed out that 150 graduates of Pat Robertson's college served in the Bush administration.

They have had too much of an influence. I have no idea of the number in this administration.

Dallas Morning News has an article about a charter school which is openly religious in its aspects and teachings.

Charter schools with ties to religious groups raise fears about state funds' use

Students at Duncanville's Advantage Academy follow biblical principles, talk openly about faith and receive guidance from a gregarious former pastor who still preaches when he speaks.

Advantage's state-funded campuses showcase the latest breed of charter schools, born from faith-based principles and taxpayer funds. More than 20 percent of Texas' charter schools have some kind of religious ties. That's the case for six of the seven approved this year, including ones in Frisco and Arlington.

..."Advantage Academy sits in two nondescript one-story buildings on the edge of Duncanville , next to a bank and a guarded office complex. Poster board covers the walls inside with stenciled letters that read "Character Counts." Reminders of the academy's seven pillars, including integrity, humility and authority, hang in classrooms next to pie charts and pictures of President Barack Obama.

Advantage markets its teaching of creationism and intelligent design. It offers a Bible class as an elective and encourages personal growth through hard work and "faith in God and country." On a recent morning, a dozen uniformed seventh-graders hunched over worksheets, turning fractions into decimals.

Allen Beck, the academy's founder and a former Assemblies of God pastor, hopes to instill morals and ethics in students as they learn to count and read. "America is in a battle between secularity and biblical thinking," he said. "I want to fuse the two together in a legal way."


They get taxpayer money, and they are teaching creationism and intelligent design.

The Ft. Worth Star Telegram has a write-up about the new push to get the 10 Commandments displayed in classrooms.

Republican Texas state representative files Ten Commandments bill

State Rep. Dan Flynn hopes to ensure that any Texas teacher who wants to can display the Ten Commandments in a classroom. Flynn, R-Van, in East Texas, recently filed a bill that says school board trustees may not stop copies of the commandments from being posted in "prominent" locations in classrooms. Calling it a "patriotic exercise," Flynn said the bill is geared to teach youths about history and principles.

..."Children are a captive audience," Masci said. "They have to be there a certain amount of time every day. They also don't fully have the capacity to understand what is necessarily a requirement and what is a gesture.

"If a teacher puts a Ten Commandments poster in the classroom, a child might say, 'This is something I need to learn and understand.'"

Masci said government institutions, such as schools, may acknowledge religion but cannot promote it. "We've been fighting about this for years," he said.


In the AU article Rob Boston makes further points. He says the AU will keep fighting on this separation of religion and schools. He also says the states should pay more attention to funding the schools instead of pushing religion on them.

And here’s the final irony: Both Texas and Georgia aren’t exactly showering money on public schools right now. In Georgia, limits on class sizes were lifted earlier this year. One dad reported 50 students in his child’s classes. Maybe the state’s education officials ought to deal with that rather than go on a religious crusade.





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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. This has been in the works for decades.
The Religious Right started by putting believers on school boards..and have been working their way up the govt/political ladder ever since then.

They were counting on the fact that most people do not even bother to show up for school board elections..and they knew they could get control easily. Get the kids early, brainwash them..and the rest is a piece of cake...as we are seeing today.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That was Dean's goal at the DNC and still at DFA
To work to get candidates elected at local positions. He said we needed a farm team. He knew we needed to out-organize the Republicans locally.

Yes, they have planned this and worked hard on it.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. and Dean was one of the very few who had the knowledge, the know-how and the passion to counter
their plot..and he was undermined at almost every point.

The repukes KNEW Dean would undo their work and that is why they focused so hard on getting him out of the picture, and dragging him and his ideas thru the mud. The moronic public bought it all...hook,line and sinker.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm guessing that teaching is/was also one of their approved careers for mothers. Think
of the benefits to their candidates that make it onto the school boards in having supportive teachers.

Teachers able to alter curriculum in numerous subtle and not-so-subtle ways in order to brainwash students.

"Christianity", and popularity, taking precedence over excellence in teaching and in evaluating student performance (not to mention other systemic ILLs such as NCLB and, shall we say, confused families) resulting in longstanding decline in American education success.
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CurtEastPoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep, the GOP in GA rules! Now we'll be 50th.
This fool blathers on and on his blog.

On his FB page, he LIKES Glenn Beck, Tea Party 'Patriots' and of course, if a friend of Ralph Reed.

This is a direct result of a Mr. Barge being elected, he being a Repub of course.

Down the tubes we go...
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. No way!
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 04:02 PM by ProudDad
Here in bat-crap crazy Arizona, "we" just sElected jan brewer and a solid neo-nazi Legislature...

Mr. SB1070 is going to be our next Presidend of the Senate...





We're SOLID for retaining our 50th place standing in USAmerican edumacation...
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. If parents want their children to receive religious instruction, they should send the kids to Sunday
School or to whatever comparable program for religious education is available through their local religious group -- or they can send them to private school or homeschool them

America doesn't do a good job with public school science education. The teach-to-the-test philosophy turns science into a mishmash of "facts" handed down by authoritarians. We really need to get back to teaching practical critical thinking, hands-on experimentation, and the like
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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's not THEIR kids they're worried about.
They can teach their kids whatever they want at home and in church, they can display the ten commandments in the kitchen, they can make their kids pray and recite verses and sing Jesus songs, and so on. They can drag them to church seven days a week if they wish to. THEIR kids are covered.

But they don't have any control over anyone else's kids. They can't force their particular brand of religion onto any kids but their own. That bothers them a great desl, and that is what they are trying to remedy with all this.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Dunno. I generally can't read people's minds -- especially the minds of strangers whom
I've never met
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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You don't have to read their minds. Just read what they say.
It's right there in the article.

Flynn said, "And anything that helps build the morals of our young people would be helpful."

Thorton said, "We cannot offer any type of spiritual help to struggling youth because we have no place for God in our schools."

It's very clear that these men aren't just talking about their own children.
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Yurovsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. No doubt about it....
fundies are all about dragging the non-believers into the fold, by force if necessary.

School achieves this goal rather easily, and puts kids in a position where it is difficult, and for many kids impossible (you want to risk getting held back or will you just nod and accept the "fact" that Jesus road a pet dinosaur around Palestine?).
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. I tend to agree with you, but....
knowing these groups and many people who advocate these positions....I have no doubt they are out to save my children's souls as well as their own. It can get really creepy.
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thanks_imjustlurking Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Bingo. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Yes, it is about control.
They want to use religion to control us, though I doubt they would word it that way.
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Fundies Out Of Control
These religious zealots are insane but just won't quit, they are determined to brainwash as many kids as they can.

Religion should play no part, zero, in government and public education. I think our founding fathers were quite clear on that in many of their writings. This country was actually largely settled by people fleeing religious persecution overseas, oh the irony - but then rightie religious types have a hard time grasping irony.



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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. But I thought that public school history classes were anti-Christian and pro-Muslim?
That's at least what the Texas State Board of Ed's been bleating about lately. But seriously, the First Amendment means NO FED FUNDING TO ADVANCE RELIGION PERIOD. Oh yeah and some churches have been abusing their tax-exempt status (Proposition 8, anyone?) If parents are so concerned about education making their kids question the holy book then the parents should either homeschool or save up the money for Christian school.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Religious Right must have no belief in personal responsibility nor faith in their faith
Amish families get it; they don't believe that religion should be taught at all in school. School is for learning about earthly matters. Religious education is so important to the Amish that they only entrust it to family members and the church. The religious right obviously believes that neither parents nor the church can be trusted to competently teach their kids about God; the government should be the ones to do it. :eyes:
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. This is prima facie evidence of the failure of their religious leaders.
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 08:50 AM by olegramps
They have most evidently failed to convince the youth of the inerrancy of the Bible and the superior wisdom of Creationism and have to turn to the school systems in the hope they can accomplish what the have failed to do. How many of today's youth, most especially those who further their education in accredited universities, would cling to the belief that the entirety of the universe was created some 5 or 6 thousand years ago against the massive evidence of evolution?

This nonsense can only be perpetuated in so-called Christian Fundamentalist institutions in which their youth are carefully guarded from scientic evidence. We must also acknowledge that not all Christians, and I suspect the vast majority, don't believe this nonsense. For example Catholics don't indulge in this type of hysterical anti-intellectualism in their schools. It should be realized that their influence is out of proportion and these Neanderthals represent the minority view of the ignoramuses. They are not worthy of argument but only ridicule and will eventually be laughed out of existence.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. +1
What an interesting point!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Good observations. "carefully guarded from scientific evidence"
Indeed they are. :hi:
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haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. Does anyone else
see a direct correlation between defunding public education and the rise of corporate/religious charter schools? I do. They want control of everything...
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Yes! Indoctrination and dumbing down at the same time
My spouse says that even if they got what they wanted it wouldn't be enough, they want control of everything. They would like a Christian Crusade and we all know how that turned out.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
17. bleeeeaaaaahhhh! religion is capable of evil--we need utter rationality in our govt systems
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 11:03 AM by librechik
This is just a trick to skew power to the right.They cynically use the power of hope--and shame-- inherent in religion to move people away from their natural liberal positions. Why is the left so powerless to stop it? Through demonization they have destroyed our ability to organize.
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azureblue Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yes! Make TX and GA display the Ten
Commandments. We are looking at this totally wrong - we should get behind it and agree with them. I personally believe this should be done...........

And.............

To make sure that the display is not just a "display", put some teeth into it- pass a law that says that any office holder who breaks any of the Ten will be removed from office on the spot. Congressman. Principal. Teacher. District Attorney. Governor. All of them.

Thou shall not Lie. Steal. Covet. That's three of them for a start. Let's see who can live up to them. Make them put their asses where their mouths are. Walk the talk. If they want to push their religious rules on everybody, then make them live by the big Ten. And let's see who's left in office afterwards... I doubt there will be many Repubs left...
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Rec. Thank you for keeping us informed about these abuses. nt
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh, yes, especially the ones about "other gods", "adultery," and "killing." REALLY appropriate!
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Independem Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Texas Text Books and the End of Reality Based Histoy
In May this year, the Texas school board passed their ten-year revisions to their public school textbooks. The new standards are the most God fearing, anti-science, pro-conservative revisions in history, but they don’t go far enough.

The Texas school board is trying to bring God back to this Godless nation. One way they can do this is by bringing more Jesus into the textbooks. Old textbooks would tell us that the First Amendment protects freedom of religion and protects us against government institutionalization of a state religion. As freedom loving Joseph Lieberman and former Senatorial candidate Christine O’Donnell both said, “...the Constitution guarantees from of religion, not freedom FROM religion.” http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45c/257.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/christine-odon... There is no freedom from religion in this God fearing nation, and we will make sure that you aren’t free from religion, ever, especially in school.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=219x29496

This is just a short part of statement
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. I like starting arguments over using the Protestant or Catholic version of the 10 Commandments
I come down on the Protestant side, cause I think it's easier to scare the Catholics into realizing how stupid this idea is.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. Kick
:kick:

As always, thanks for being on top of this very important issue! :patriot:
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Independem Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
30. over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, mov
over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements

Adherents.com is a growing collection of over 43,870 adherent statistics and religious geography citations: references to published membership/adherent statistics and congregation statistics for over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc. The religions of the world are enumerated here

http://www.adherents.com/

If you teach one in school you need to teach them all, that’s why it should not be taught at all, period.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. The ten commandments
Exodus 34:12-26

1. Take heed to thyself, lest thou bake a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest though make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one calls thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; and thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib,: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

4. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

5. Six days though shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest time thou shalt rest.

6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God if Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord they God thrice in the year.

7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
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