Just saw Fair Game. And I have a few questions.

[proud2BlibKansan]

Why isn't Karl Rove in JAIL??

Why wasn't anyone but Libby held accountable?

How do these people sleep at night, knowing they not only caused a woman to lose her career, but also caused the DEATHS of some of her contacts?

Why were Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson the only ones who seemed interested in doing the right thing?

And finally, how could Nancy Pelosi watch this all go down and then refuse to impeach Bush??

I'm angry and I am just as angry at the Democrats who refused to go after these traitors as I am at the traitors. :grr:

[Bucky]

1. "We will remember the silence of our friends"

Who said that? Check my sigpic

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. They are not our friends

Other than that, good quote :)

[SugarShack]

54. I sat right behind her in DC at her hearing, Waxman was leading, all roads led to Cheney

[HardWorkingDem]

33. Proud, don't know if your questions were answered yet, but..

The reason Libby was the only one held accountable was because he obstructed and because of his obstruction, Fitzgerald was not able to show further intent of those above him that leaked her name and what they leaked it for. The intent of the leak was key for the other prosecution under the appropriate charges. This is why Armitage was never charged - his intent was much different than Libby and above - it was idiotic gossip on his (Armitage's) part (and this shows how vapid our counterparts are when it comes to them screaming about why he wasn't charged).

Libby's obstruction made it impossible for Fitzgerald to determine the intent of others and that's why it all stopped with Libby.

As for your other questions, well, at the end of the night, those are questions we can only hope keep those people awake at night.

[femrap]

41. Patrick Fitzgerald is a

fucking repugnant. How many times he interviewed Rove and let him off for perjury.

Everyone I'm sure saw all of Fitzgerald's press conferences....very measured in his words, very tactful, very under control.

However, did everyone see Fitzgerald when he had his Press Conference that indicted the Governor of IL over the selection of Obama's Senate seat?????

Jesus, the guy was infuriated...he was so mad that he was spitting as he spoke. He was enraged. Then I realized that this man was a piece of bought-off shit. He wouldn't know 'Justice' nor 'Fairness' if it ran up to him and bit off his nose.

Fitzgerald wasn't going to rock any one's boat...the rupugnant piece of wasted flesh.

[Little Star]

46. I see Fitzgerald just as you describe him.

[femrap]

47. Did you see the press

conference regarding the gov of IL?

I was just shocked....and it explained EVERYTHING to me.

[Little Star]

51. Missed it. Got a brief synopsis? I'm interested. Thanks

[femrap]

64. Fitzgerald was absolutely enraged....

he was yelling about the corruption....he was spewing. You could see spit come out of his mouth.

This was not the same man we can investigate the Plame Affair....not even close. I was in shock....and then I realized what had happened.

If I ever see Fitzgerald, I might just kick him in the ass.

[Little Star]

66. Thanks. I will never again trust him since the whole Plame affair.

[leveymg]

50. Fitzgerald is for the prosecution what Plato Cacheris is to the defense.

A man with the highest security clearances, which effectively makes him one of them. They're all just following orders, to the extent that they will not release classified information the government doesn't want released.

As for Karl - why was he let off? Why are most worms let off the hook - because he was useful at luring and getting the goods on bigger fish who had strayed out of the pond - the biggest fish. POTUS and the Veep.

Why weren't Bush and Cheney sent to jail? We don't do it that way in America - too Banana Republic for some tastes. Without justice we're just another empire rapidly in decline, but we still have our dignity, don't we?

[femrap]

No....I don't see any

dignity. But if I see Fitzgerald's ass, I might just kick it. And I know damn well I'd like Rove's blossom.

[ooglymoogly]

73. +1 nt

[Orrex]

3. The scene in the railcar was HAWT except for the presence of Baldwin

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. I don't remember that scene

[Orrex]

5. I *might* be thinking of the wrong "Fair Game"

Not saying that I am, but I might be.

[patrice]

8. Your sig is true!

[robinlynne]

60. released this week. the story of valerie plame and joe wilson vs cheney etal.

[Orrex]

83. I like the part where the assassins used an IR camera to see him pissing

[ooglymoogly]

88. anyone know the box office numbers? nt

[ooglymoogly]

75. As we do not know which "Fair Game" you are referring to;

is that the acronym "HAWT" 'having a wonderful time' or the newer meaning; top drawer,really swell, Or; Ju loook maaavalus.

[laughingliberal]

6. K & R nt

[patrice]

7. No one says/does anything about it. It's all just so very disorienting! Nothing about this country

is what I always thought it was.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. It's so damned frustrating

The theater was packed. They even came in and asked us all to move to the center to make more room. Then - not an empty seat in the house.

Now what are all those people going to DO? :grr:

[patrice]

10. I think getting out in the streets more, like you did the other day, is one good thing to do.

Sorry, I wasn't with you. I didn't even know that SOB was in town.

Being in the streets sets a good example, not to mention gets some messaging out, for others.

[femrap]

42. I just got back from

'Inside Job.' If that doesn't get people out in the streets, nothing will.

Fuck Fitzgerald....he's the repugnant who didn't indict Rove. Fitzgerald had his orders of who to throw under the bus before the damn investigation ever started.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

78. Just read a review and watched the trailer

for "Inside Job." Can't wait to see it.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/movies/inside-job-movie-review-and-trailer

[femrap]

82. I want to go see it again....

I'll take my mother. It just blew me away. EVERYONE should see it. We are fucking patsies.

I'm ready to waterboard any of Banksters.

[YvonneCa]

11. I read Joe Wilson's book...

...when it came out, and I have the same questions. I am still more angry at Rove, et al, though. I think Dems decision to move forward was done with good intent...but I think it hurts us, longterm.

[ooglymoogly]

31. If it was all done with "good intent"

it was the "pretend", "good intent" of a blithering idiot; to say nothing of being legally bound by the constitution to upholding the laws of this country; and the civilized world for that matter.

My take is, that it was an idiots faulty (pretend) understanding of Noblesse Oblige; when one thinks of these conniving criminals as noble, upstanding folks (Cheney et al) with nothing but good intent; who just got led astray. So lets just break the law, shred the constitution and common sense further and give'em a pass.

I do not give (0) a pass on this, he is part and parcel and the intent was neither noble nor of goodness.

It was purely and simply, a power play.

[peacetalksforall]

12. I look forward to Fair Game 2. Here's why. I kept waiting to see the role of

the forged letters - Ledeen, etc. I told myself they probably couldn't get into it. Libby took the all the blame for everyone. There was no Judith Miller and her cohort at the Times and the Times editors. There was no Robert Novak. There was no Cheney. The time is not right. Don't be confused by my #2. I don't know anything about a sequel, but in life there will be one. We will learn in time. I hope others will be sentenced in time.

Also, there was only one short reference to Brewster-Jennings. The movie took a short cut, but with no one besides Libby blamed and one line of text about Armitage, viewers didn't get the full impact. They took down a front company. They took down players.

But they did what they could and it was a film worth seeing.

Imagine if it happened to your family.

Cheney, a really nice guy, huh?

From the summer of 2005:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7256

Just enter Ledeen Niger forged or forgeries and Italy. There is plenty out there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. I have a friend who is convinced it was all a front to bring down Brewster Jennings

He says it wasn't about revenge on Plame and Wilson at all.

[cascadiance]

21. A "part 2" would deal with Marc Grossman, Sibel Edmonds, and others that document earlier outage...

... of Brewster Jennings. If someone had testified IN COURT had testified that the Obama administration had outed a CIA agency as Sibel Edmonds did earlier about Marc Grossman you would have had impeachment hearings a LONG time ago and huge investigations by Republicans. Instead her testimony that Grossman outed Brewster Jennings (not necessarily Valerie Plame in that instance mind you) well before Scooter Libby and Armitage (as Republicans claim) gets ignored by all but foreign newspapers like the London Times. I'm sure that would also give them a chance to add someone like Salma Hayek to the cast of a sequel too! :)

I think the first movie "Fair Game" was trying to be true to the account that Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson documented about their experience, but there is SO MUCH MORE as you note with the other events around this time that isn't being touched.

The reasons why we don't hear more about this and Karl Rove isn't in jail is probably the same reasons that Don Siegelman's appeal hasn't been supported by this DOJ, and instead they still keep that CORRUPT U.S. Attorney that prosecuted him who was the wife of the Republican he ran against in instead of firing her as most administrations would have done. And we let Ted Stevens who arguably is a helluva a lot more guilty of crimes than Siegelman was in Alaska. Of course Republicans will try to say that this was a part of a conspiracy to get him flying in planes where he could die in a plane crash too.

But given that I think that they expanded the "Fair Game" release beyond the "limited release" it was released originally under (I remember going to one of those showings which was packed then), I think it might mean that more films like this might be made hopefully. Hearing Thom Hartmann saying that Leonardo DeCaprio has just announced plans on making a big film on the whole JFK assassination legends based upon the book that Hartmann wrote along with another writer perhaps might be due to the success of Fair Game the last month or so I think.

And speaking of Judith Miller's role as you just did, it might also touch on what her relationship was with the British weapon's expert David Kelley who was suicided at this time then that the British justice system has been trying to sweep under the rug too. A lot of his last emails were to her too. Wouldn't be surprised that he's tied in to what was going on with Brewster Jennings at that time too.

So lets keep our fingers crossed that the film industry will still enhance and make more of these kinds of films in the years to come. It is one way that good information can get through the corporate media mess we have now.

[peacetalksforall]

89. And then we have to get Tea people to see the films so they can open up

their heads and hearts to and for humanity. As of today they are the Tea souls: lost, hate-first, easily influenced, ultra gullible. Facts never penetrate their thick walls that others built around them, for them.

[librechik]

24. it was a feature, not a bug n/t

[femrap]

43. Brester Jennings was a front

company for the CIA....counter proliferation. Taking it down took Plame down and others.

[Jackpine Radical]

67. Because Brewster J was getting too close to exposing

the WMD lies?

[ooglymoogly]

72. Exactamundo nt

[704wipes]

74. how about this - Brewster Jennings could have exposed the >

smuggling of Weapons of Mass Destruction INTO Iraq by someone wanting to establish they were there as the case for that war?
Either the fact that B-J was capable of that, or actually DID DO that is why B-J was exposed?

I'll put my money there. Those are the BIG two reasons they could have made Cheney THAT mad.

[Jackpine Radical]

79. As with most paranoid conspiracy theories involving Cheney,

I find this one entirely plausible.

[peacetalksforall]

90. Other speculation was that they were getting too close to facts related to Khan-Cheney.

[peacetalksforall]

91. I remember reading that there were contractors waiting around in Kuwait for word to

proceed with the set up WMD, i.e., moving them in and covering the news releases. If there is any kind of truth to it, perhaps B-J was successful in exposing enough on it so that the Cheney admin had to say (in effect) that they lied.

Some day I want to understand how there are such vast extremes in the CIA or am I suffering from a delusion that there are polar opposites of evil.

I tend to believe everything I've heard about the Cheney WH pressure on the CIA and all the visits and language posturing.

[spanone]

13. great questions. no answers.

[progressoid]

14. To be fair to the Democrats...

they had to keep their powder dry.

:eyes:

[orleans]

39. lol

:grr:

[Missy Vixen]

15. Rove is not in jail because Libby was the fall guy

Libby got a conviction, but he will never see the inside of a jail cell because he knows it all. If he is ever put on the stand (a pardon would have ensured it, ASAP,) the house of cards would fall.

As for how Bush, Cheney, Rove and the rest sleep, just fine. I would love to know what was said to Libby's wife; when the verdict was announced, she was visibly agitated and vowing it would "all come out", according to the liveblogging I read at Firedoglake.

I'm making no comment on Pelosi's role, due to the fact that my comments would not be complimentary. Taking impeachment off the table is a comment that continues to reverberate in our country.

I'm angry, too.
I'm looking forward to seeing the movie as well.

[The Wizard]

16. If only they replaced impeachment

with extraordinary rendition.

[90-percent]

19. Impeachment?

Well, Nancy, now that the Republicans will soon have a majority in Congress again, I suspect that now

IMPEACHMENT IS BACK ON THE TABLE!

They'll probably get Obama impeached for lying under oath about picking his nose. Lying under oath about perfectly legal acts is much more serious than lying America into a war of aggression and occupation. But, on the bright side, I think GW is now in possession of Saddam's pearl handled revolver, so the war was worth it.


-90% Jimmy

[applegrove]

18. I look forward to seeing it.

[bvar22]

20. Why?

...because we no longer have a representative democracy in the USA.

Since the 70s, it has ALL been grand Kabuki Theater, including the illusion of two Political Parties.

[Jakes Progress]

29. +1

When all the spin, the protestations, and the theater is shown to be false, this seems to be the only thing that can possibly explain what is going on.

[Fuzz]

34. I think the puppet on the right is closest to my belief system. Well, I think

the puppet on the left is best suited to look after my needs.

Hey! Wait! The same person is holding both puppets!

[NYMdaveNYI]

52. +1

[truedelphi]

40. Sigh. So very true.

Buyt atleast some very great movies can be made from all of this.

Coming in ten years to a neighborhood theater near your concentration camp: "While Middle Class America Slept" and also, "The Rise f the Fourth Reich."

[femrap]

45. another +1

[Little Star]

49. Wow! I keep reading down thru threads and....

I keep agreeing with your replies then I look at who made the reply and it's you. You speak for me often.

And I'm not stalking you. :D

[morningglory]

22. Could it be they don't care who dies? nt

[bertman]

23. proud2BlibKansan, if you were a student of history you would know that this

is the pattern of power maintenance/power grabbing that has been going on in the world for time immemorial. The Founders attempted to set up a system where 'the ruled' had some influence over 'the rulers' but we citizens have fallen asleep and let that system lapse into disuse. Thus, we are experiencing the abuses that have been part and parcel of U.S. political/governmental activity since the late 40's/early 50's.

Let's hope that enough of us will experience your level of anger that we will actually do something to rectify the situation.

[WillyT]

25. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[hughee99]

26. I didn't get to see it yet,

Just curious, who played Richard Armitage?


I thought Michael Chiklis would be good for that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. No one

[Ozymanithrax]

27. Because Rove was covered sufficiently so thee wasn't enough..

evidence ot charge him.

There were a lot of people interested in doing the right thing. But evidence was still needed, and it did not exist. For the most part, they clamed up and shut up successfully.

If you mean traitors as in treasons, the crimes they comitted did not fit the Constitutional definition of treason. Their actions were not espionage, under the law.

There was no evidence to impeach Bush.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job

And Bush lied to go to war yet no impeachment?

[Ozymanithrax]

84. So your saying we should do the same thing...

impeach for no reason at all?

I don't think is is OK if we do is is sufficien.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. If you honestly believe there was no reason to impeach Bush

we have nothing more to discuss.

[JDPriestly]

48. I'm not so sure.

U.S. Constitution, Art. III, Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8

"adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." Wouldn't the outing of a CIA agent qualify?

Of course, the problem would be getting "two Witnesses to the same overt Act," but I think that could have been accomplished too, had Fitzgerald really tried and put some pressure on -- like threatening big sentences, like starting with very low-level employees who most likely overheard conversations, saw e-mails, took phone calls. That is how criminal investigations are normally run, I believe. So, unless we were not told the whole truth about it, this investigation appears to have been kind of haphazard to begin with.

[Ozymanithrax]

85. Plame was outed for politics...

not to give aid and comfort to the enemy, or improve an enemies position. The intent was political payback not helping the enemy.

And it certainly did no qualify with the other conditions "Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." No confession, and no testiomony by two witnesses.

the foudning fathers made it almost impossible to convict a person of treason for very good reasons.

The real problem was that there was no evidence because no one confessed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17479718/ns/politics/
Libby was convicted of one count of obstruction, two counts of perjury and one count of lying to the FBI about how he learned Plame’s identity and whom he told.

He did not testify against anyone else. Though it appeared that Rove and Cheney at least were also involved, there was no evidence ot charge them. If there are no witnesses and no evidence people can not be charged.

[JDPriestly]

86. The Constitution does not say anything about having the intention

to give aid and comfort to an enemy. Certainly, outing a CIA agent is giving aid and comfort to our enemies especially since we were at war at the time.

[mudplanet]

28. Because the concept of equal justice is an empty slogan

[Jakes Progress]

30. Hush now. Don't dwell on the past.

We want to move forward. Pay no attention to those men behind the throne.

[elehhhhna]

32. Reading the book now. It's printed with all the CIA's redactions

in place. Pretty interesting.

[azmesa207]

35. Why blame Nancy Pelosi

For this it was Obama that made it know he wanted to move forward and forget about the Republican lawbreaking . He wanted bipartisanship and still does to this day even when the republicans just a make a fool out of him .

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Pelosi announced in 2006, long before Obama was prez,

that impeachment was off the table.

[Greyhound]

44. Because she lead the failure of the Democrats to act for the last 6 years.

Two years of blocking investigations. Two years of continual funding of mass-murder. Two years of blocking any attempt to fight back.

She may not be the worst Democratic leader we've had, but she's certainly in the running.

[NYMdaveNYI]

53. YET, we vote that dingbat back in

for House Minority Leader.

[inna]

58. the term "dingbat" is NOT appreciated.

[NYMdaveNYI]

59. After ALL Bush did,

and you hear this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxJQ7587RLo&feature=related

Does that not sting?

[inna]

62. i'm just saying, no reason to use rw terms. Pelosi certainly is not a "dingbat".

[Greyhound]

76. While I agree with NYMdaveNYI's sentiment, I agree that she is not a dingbat.

Using her office to make her husband a billionaire while maintaining the illusion of working for her constituents requires some major league intellect and chutzpah.

[NYMdaveNYI]

77. agreed. nt

[EFerrari]

61. Because it was her job to impeach Bush while he was in office.

That's why.

[ProudDad]

36. Because "we must look forward, not backward."

Gee, who said that?

[BrklynLiberal]

55. Many good questions...and not one good answer.

[Duval]

56. We also just saw Fair Game and

I have the same questions, but mine include our MSM(what a joke) as well as a few cuss words. Thanks for posting this, proud2BlibKansan, from proud2BlibNC. :grr:

[indimuse]

57. KNR X 100! n/t

[HardWorkingDem]

63. Rove's roll.....has anyone thought maybe...the reason for no indictment..

the reason he wasn't indicted was because he told the truth to save his oily skin first and split like an overfilled jelly role and answered all the questions by the FBI and in the Grand Jury?

Not only that, if people think of the ladder here it goes from Cheney to Libby - Libby possibly is the one who actually knew what Cheney's intent was and possibly not Rove.

[spanone]

65. bu$h/rove/cheney...they got away with it. they gamed the system and no one called them on it.

they exposed a cia agent for political purposes and suffered not one consequence

[james0tucson]

68. Why isn't Karl Rove in JAIL??

"Why isn't Karl Rove in JAIL??"

Well to begin with, he hasn't been accused of a crime for which he could face jail. And since he hasn't been accused, he hasn't been prosecuted, tried or convicted.

I'm no fan of Karl Rove, but I must ask, what crime do you claim he committed, and what is your evidence?

[defendandprotect]

70. K&R ... will try to see the movie --

[SoCalDem]

71. Republican controled congress .whitehouse. .everything.

They protect their own.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

80. And the best question of all, WHY WASN'T THIS MOVIE RELEASED BEFORE MID-TERM ELECTIONS?

btw, K&R

[Rex]

81. Because a POTUS trumps an ambassador and a CIA field agent?

The danger to US as citizens is it, of course, sends our enemies the wrong signal that we are weak and will break our own laws to save the high-elite society over subject security.

Some day someone important and full of charged up energy, will take Republicans to the woodshed and make them pay dearly for helping terrorists undermine America.

Sadly, not today.