Hitchens defeats Blair in Canadian religion debate

[n2doc]

Tony Blair told an audience member at a debate yesterday that his religious beliefs did not play a role in his decision to support the US invasion of Iraq - but the votes went 2-1 the way of his opponent, Christopher Hitchens.

Speaking during the debate in Toronto, Canada, about the merits of religion, Mr Blair, a Catholic convert, said all his policy decisions, including supporting the Iraq war, were based on his genuine belief they were the right choices.

Mr Hitchens, an avowed atheist, Vanity Fair columnist and author of God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, argued that religion forced people to do unspeakable things under the guise of faith.

He is fighting final-stage oesophageal cancer and has refused to embrace religion despite his diagnosis.

Mr Blair attempted to persuade Mr Hitchens that religion was a force for global good when he was asked by an audience member how religion influenced his decision to stand with the United States against Iraq.

more
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/faith/hitchens-defeats-blair-in-canadian-religion-debate-2145268.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/27/christopher-hitchens-tony-blair-debate

[RandomThoughts]

1. Faith without reason can do that.

Machiavellian says to use peoples faith against people. I disagree with that, but much religious strife comes from those thoughts. So although the concept of what 'religion' is is vast, the concept of spirituality that includes body heart and mind, is said in many places, as are concepts of peace and love.

So really you can't blame it on religion as much as how people were taught to see the religion, or able to accept as part of a religious belief.

However I do agree the argument that the spiritual told them to do it, is only respecting power, not what is right. So the 'told to do it' is not a very good defense in the spiritual either. Unless a person can feel that source is correct.

And there are plenty of examples where people listened to the wrong sources.

[provis99]

3. Reason is the enemy of faith.

[malaise]

4. +1,000 n/t

[RandomThoughts]

5. Thats not true, my faith was strengthened by reason.

When I saw that the spirituality I believe in all made sense.


Then again I had to think on it and ask questions. And there is still a bunch I don't know, but the basic premises of faith make sense by reason and faith.


I even understand the reason why faith is also required. If you are shown exactly, then you might just believe because you want to side with the winner for self gain, or because of self reward. So not being sure makes sure it is for selfless reasons. If you knew for sure, then how could you believe by choice? So knowing for sure takes away a choice that you make, a choice that can also evaluate your heart and mind.

That makes sense, hence why proving the spiritual exist, but not its exact form, makes alot of sense to me.

[Demit]

6. I have to disagree with "not being sure makes sure it is for selfless reasons."

You're familiar with Pascal's Wager? His idea was that even though it is impossible to know for sure that God exists, you should live your life as if He does because you have everything to gain if He does and you've lost nothing if it turns out He doesn't. That has everything to do with embracing religious belief for selfish reasons.

I really don't see why religious belief is necessary for living life as a good person anyway. That's a choice you have every day. And it's not predicated on whether or not a Superior Being is watching what you do and planning to reward or punish you for it.

[RandomThoughts]

7. I agree it should not be about the reward or punishment

And I don't think or worry about that stuff.

I also believe that peoples hearts are known, and a way will be found for them to be where they should be.

In your example his comment is not only about selfishness, by saying live believing God exists, that also requires you to decide what you think God expects and thinks is best of a person.

So even if he is doing it for himself within your concept, how he chooses to live believing God exists, still shows what his heart is and how he feels about what God is.

[CrawlingChaos]

2. Hitchens was a cheerleader for that fraudulent war of agression

Is that any less evil because he's an atheist?

I find him as loathsome as Blair.