OMG a Terrorist at a tree lighting ceremony in Portland!

[boston bean]

I'm really really really scared and I think I will submit to any type of search.... Maybe the government should outlaw Christmas tree lightings to keep up all safe. It's only logical. Well, anyhoot, no one was in any real danger, the authorities gave the fella the dummy bomb.............


The FBI thwarted an attempted terrorist bombing in Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square before the city's annual tree-lighting Friday night, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Oregon.

A Corvallis man, thinking he was going to ignite a bomb, drove a van to the corner of the square at Southwest Yamhill Street and Sixth Avenue and attempted to detonate it.

However, the supposed explosive was a dummy that FBI operatives supplied to him, according to an affidavit in support of a criminal complaint signed Friday night by U.S. Magistrate Judge John V. Acosta.

Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, a Somali-born U.S. citizen, was arrested at 5:42 p.m., 18 minutes before the tree lighting was to occur, on an accusation of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction. The felony charge carries a maximum


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html

[notadmblnd]

1. They still have to set people up

People who otherwise would have no possible means of carrying out a serious terror attack. Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Motown_Johnny]

6. are we sure he couldn't get fertilizer and gasoline?

[boston bean]

7. Every car, anus underside of breast and scrotum must be search for any public gathering. nt

[NuclearDem]

41. Quickly followed by..."Dont touch my junker gate"

:silly:

[boston bean]

45. how about don't touch my "clunk"-er.....

LOL, you too funny!

[notadmblnd]

29. probably. However, without the help of the feds- he probably wouldn't know what to do with it.

I don't. Do you?

[Name removed]

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[saigon68]

2. We are safe now---Thanks Napolitano

</sarcasm>

[rfranklin]

3. Another graduate of the FBI terrorist training program...

Like the shoeshine guys in Florida.

[Name removed]

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[treestar]

4. I recall having to go through metal detectors at an Air Force

Aerial flight show. They had a bunch of them set up outdoors.

This was likely in 2002. I wonder if they would still do that.

[NuclearDem]

31. They don't here in Omaha

I didn't see any metal detectors on the flightline during Offutt's air show this year.

[coalition_unwilling]

5. I love the smell of entrapment early in the morning - n/t

[still_one]

17. Do you know if it was? I don't know the full facts, I do know he is presumed innocent until proven

guilty. I also know that he will have an attorney to defend him

I do not know what evidence the FBI has, but I do know that the U.S. have had plenty of home-grown terrorist, from abortion bomb clinics, to the Oklahoma Federal building bombing

I also know the FBI has infiltrated groups in the past. They did it with the ku klux klan, and I have absolutely no problem with that

I do not know how they came to believe this person was a threat, but there will be a trial, and we will see

[coalition_unwilling]

33. I don't know if it was entrapment. But I get mighty suspicious when I

read that the FBI 'supplied' this person with a dummy bomb. Maybe they also egged him on to use it?

Now why would I suspect the FBI of entrapping someone whose name suggests he is Muslim? Um, check out what the FBI did during COINTELPRO and you'll see why I am suspicious.

[Xenotime]

25. Especially if you are muslim, right?

[treestar]

66. Maybe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.<1> In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

In slightly different words: Even though someone may have sold drugs, as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three conditions are fulfilled:
The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
Government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime.

The person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.
On the issue of entrapment, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.

[HuckleB]

70. BS.

Where's the evidence that there was any entrapment?

[Name removed]

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[LiberalLoner]

8. Okay, maybe it's just me, but I'm glad they got this guy off the streets. rop

I guess maybe it was entrapment, but maybe it's a smart idea to identify these guys before they find an actual real supplier for bomb materials or a partner like Timothy McVeigh did.

Personally I think the dude sounds like a rotten apple and I'm glad he will be somewhere he can't do harm to any of us. Because I believe he would have eventually found someone to sell him explosives or he would have gone on a rampage with a weapon like MAJ Hasan did.

[boston bean]

9. the point I was trying to make is what liberty would one be willing to give up if the guy had blown

up the portland tree lighting ceremony.

Search of your car? Search of your person? Search of your home? Search of your financial records? Search of your travel?

[ChazII]

11. Good point. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

54. If the guy had blown up the Portland Tree Lighting Ceremony, a lot of families w/little kids would

have been there.

The guy expressed direct, repeated interest in a high body count, even after being reminded of the above fact.

Had it actually happened, it very well could have been my family there. My two toddlers.

So you know what? This isn't about Americans whining regarding the airport or being afraid of TSA agents seing their fat rolls. It has nothing to do with the TSA.

The FBI did the right thing here, they got a potentially murderous asshole off the streets.

[HuckleB]

71. In other words, you're ignoring that the FBI did its job.

Thus, keeping politicians from being able to pose with meaningless searchers.

BORING!

[still_one]

27. I don't know if it was entrapment or not, hopefully, that will become clear

however, if the FBI has prevented a terrorist attack that is a good thing

[Warren DeMontague]

68. No shit.

It seems pretty clear cut, this one- but I guess some people are always looking for the turd in the punchbowl.

[Radical Activist]

10. These stories are all over the country.

I can't believe this is a smart use of resources. They've arrested a string of people who never would have managed to get their terrorist plot out of mom's basement.

[HipChick]

14. Same deal with the would be DC metro bomber..

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/The-Curious-Identity-of-DCs-Would-Be-Metro-Bomber-5558

Muslim leaders in Northern Virginia said that, as of late Wednesday, no one had reported knowing or having interacted with Ahmed at local mosques. His arrest, however, touched off a conversation about whether Ahmed might have initiated a plot or whether law enforcement officials had floated the idea to him, as has been suggested in other FBI sting operations.

"It's a conversation that's definitely going on in the community," said Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, spokesman for Dar Al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church. "At the same time, though, if you're dumb enough and sick enough to think you're working for al-Qaeda, then maybe your behind should be put in jail

[rucky]

12. I'm still amazed at how he could get such a good parking spot. n/t

[sarcasmo]

13. Overlords, I don't want my rights, thanks for protecting me I must submit.

[still_one]

16. What rights did they violate? /nt

[boston bean]

30. What rights can they violate in the name of security? nt

[still_one]

36. Even in the name of security, they eventually would need to go to a FISA court to get authorization

however, I am not sure what status is now since our illustrious Congress passed the Patriot Act

[boston bean]

38. Did FISA give the TSA authority to take nude pictures of people and search their private parts?

edit to remove something that was cleared up down thread.

[still_one]

43. As I said, previously, since the Patriot Act, I am not sure if FISA is even used, and that is a

scary prospect since we really have no checks and balances

Thanks congress, from both parties, but mostly the repukes

[Name removed]

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[still_one]

15. You have a problem with the FBI finally doing their job? Remember the The Centennial Olympic Park

bombing? Remember the Oklahoma Federal building bombing, things do happen, and they didn't do their jobs their, and not only were people killed, but subsequent abortion clinic bombings followed

There is enough to criticize the FBI and government on, but you know I wouldn't have a problem if the they were able to prevent something like this. It would have been nice if they listened and prevented Columbine, and other mass shootings that had occurred, where they did having warnings, but didn't heed them

The alleged suspect will not only have his day in court, but is innocent until proven guilty. I don't have a problem with that

[boston bean]

18. You're right, we should subject all school age children to anal and vaginal probes

as well as backscatter machines. We should also have to undergo the same type of searches at the movie theater.

[Renew Deal]

20. You sound like you've thought this out

a bit too much.

[boston bean]

21. Did you ever think you would need to have a naked picture of yourself taken at the airport?

These terrorist have gotten us by the balls, literally.

[still_one]

22. Please provide the links since I have not seen these searches at movie theaters

I have gone through metal detectors at amusement parks, which was to try to prevent gang violence, with weapons being brought into the park

I am waiting for the links

[boston bean]

23. I have nothing to provide it isn't happening yet. But it's only common sense if a terrorist

can drive a bomb to a public gathering that some of these things will have to undertaken for our safety, no?

[still_one]

32. bull. The way they did it with the ku klux klan is they infiltrated the organization

I do not know the facts here, whether it is entrapment, or a legitimate investigation, in the course of time, hopefully we will know. What I do know is that the accused is innocent until proven guilty, he has the right to an attorney, and if charged, has a right to a jury of his peers

I have plenty of gripes against the government, and law enforcement, but until I know more, I don't have a problem with this operation

[boston bean]

34. What is bull, the fact that you are fighting with yourself. You and I are talking about two

completely different things. Since, it was you who first decided to ignore the original intent of my post, I have decided to give you the same treatment with your completely off topic responses to my OP.

[still_one]

37. You are absolutely correct, and I apologize. I mixed it up with another post, sorry /nt

[Warren DeMontague]

74. I really don't understand what you're so angry about.

Should the FBI not have arrested this guy?

[Warren DeMontague]

55. What the fuck does that have to do with this story?

Jesus. Get a grip. Not everything is about your personal irritation with airport security.

[notadmblnd]

35. I'm just wondering, do you have a list of "homegrown" that were charged with terrorism?

[still_one]

42. I know two off the top of my head, the Oklahoma bombing, and the abortion clinic bomber

Terry McVee, and Eric Rudolph respectively

There have been others, some homegrown ones have not been caught

[notadmblnd]

48. My point is that they are not officially labled "terrorists"

"McVeigh was found guilty on 11 counts of murder and conspiracy on June 2, 1996, and, on Aug. 14, he was formally sentenced to death. On Dec. 23, 1997, Terry Nichols was found guilty of conspiracy and involuntary manslaughter, but not guilty of use of a weapon of mass destruction and destruction by explosive." http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/crime/national/1995/oklahoma_city_bombing/ok.html

[still_one]

63. Official or not, they are terrorists, and have been characterized as such not only by the press, but

by most people. Why the U.S. government decided not to prosecute them on terrorist charges, especially mcvee, I can only believe because it was easier to convict on the other charges

[Warren DeMontague]

62. If the FBI had done this with Tim McVeigh, a lot of lives would have been saved.

Including children.

[woo me with science]

19. WE NEED NAKED SCANNERS EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!1111!!!!! nt

[sarcasmo]

51. I want them to scan me when I go to the movies, the mall, the game, the concert.

Scan me it makes me feel so safe.

[DonCoquixote]

24. entrapment?

I may dislike the feds at times, but this is once case where they were doing their job. A possible criminal wanted to buy something to hurt people with, and they made sure he was harmless and useless.

[JTFrog]

26. +1 n/t

[still_one]

39. It depends. If this was done through investigation, tips, infiltration, etc. I don't think it is

entrapment. However, if they put the idea in the person's head, and propagated that idea for the suspect to pursue, it is not as clear

If a law enforcement person disguises themselves as a prostitute, if the customer solicits business, it is NOT entrapment, however, if the law enforcement person trys to solicit the business it is entrapment, at least as I understand it

[Historic NY]

46. Exactly they just didn't go & target him....contrary to popular belief..

He got on the radar, by his own actions or words.

[still_one]

47. That is the unfortunate legacy of the bush administration, which is why some are skeptical /nt

[DonCoquixote]

53. Right

In other words, he is like a john that was cruising the strip, looking for a hooker. Thankfully, the "hooker" he got was an undercover cop, and not some runaway whose body we would later find in some ditch, wrapped in duct tape.

[sarcasmo]

52. self delete.

[2Design]

28. why did they need to set this person up? without them there would be no crime?

[still_one]

44. What if it was discovered during an investigation or a tip, before their involvement with the

accused?

[somone]

40. Next step is x-ray scan for every kid wanting to see Santa

You can never be too safe

[lightningandsnow]

49. Gives a new meaning to "war on Christmas", doesn't it?

:hide:

[CJCRANE]

50. Moral of the story (again and again):

if someone offers you easy access to explosives, he is probably working for the government (or a government) and setting you up to be a patsy or spend the rest of your life in prison.

Stay safe kids, just say no to explosives.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Yes, please, offer helpful advice to psychopaths who want to kill large numbers of people.

Because we all know the guy who couldn't wait to send a ton of Portland families off in body bags is the victim, here.

:eyes:

[CJCRANE]

76. My helpful advice was not to do it!

I think that's pretty helpful to most people.

[spanone]

57. did they have to wait till he pressed the button to arrest him? looks like showbiz

[KG]

75. this.

[The abyss]

58. Shaken' & and a Quakin'

I want my fucking country back!

Trash this domestic insecutrity nonsense!

I would rather take my chances, my children's chances, my grandchildren's chances, my constitution than tolerate one more bullshit-hyped-up security theater arrest.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. How is this bullshit? Hyped up?

What is it, precisely, that you're being forced to "tolerate"?

[Warren DeMontague]

59. The bottom line to this story is- this was a psychopath who repeatedly expressed intent

to kill large numbers of innocent people, including families with children.

The FBI operatives cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of his plan, noting that there would be many people, including children, at the event, and that Mohamud could abandon his plans at any time with no shame.

"You know there's going to be a lot of children there?" an FBI operative asked Mohamud. "You know there are gonna be a lot of children there?"

Mohamud allegedly responded he was looking for a "huge mass that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays."

It would be nice, in the middle of all the squawking about the TSA's body scanners and tin-foil hattery, if people could remember that.

[CreekDog]

60. they only got one guy out of that?

i mean, that's good, but it would be nice to break up a dangerous conspiracy if possible.

[HuckleB]

72. So, this guy wasn't a danger?

:shrug:

[CreekDog]

73. Yeah, but he wasn't a pro

was just hoping they could've snagged a supplier...but then the bombing might have worked.

[HuckleB]

82. Luckily, he wasn't a pro.

Should we wait until he gets the training to pull it off himself?

[Warren DeMontague]

64. "You know there's going to be a lot of children there?"

The FBI operatives cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of his plan, noting that there would be many people, including children, at the event, and that Mohamud could abandon his plans at any time with no shame.

"You know there's going to be a lot of children there?" an FBI operative asked Mohamud. "You know there are gonna be a lot of children there?"

Mohamud allegedly responded he was looking for a "huge mass that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays."

On the drive back to Corvalis, FBI operatives quizzed Mohamud about whether he was capable of looking at the bodies of those who would be killed in his planned Portland attack.

"I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured," Mohamud reportedly told the FBI operatives, the affidavit says.

...

[LisaL]

65. I, for one, am very glad they caught this guy.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. No doubt.

Me, too.

[HuckleB]

69. This is an illogical OP.

There were 10,000 or more people at the square, plus thousands more at stores and restaurants nearby. The FBI did its job. No one has decided to use this case as a basis for defending "any type of search."

Try again.

[Name removed]

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