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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:02 PM
Original message
The end is nigh
No, you shut up. O.K. I'm just practicing for the inevitable.

There is no progressivism happening in America(period). In fact, if a progressive idea finds it's way to Washington, it'll be reversed to become a corporatist wet dream.(think HCR). The system is closed to the people. And now, our antique progressive institutions that somehow became law, are about to be raided by the guys who legally steal for a living (wall street, banks, HMO's, insurance co.s).

Why fight it? How 'bout a boycott? Let's protest! Write our congressmen(haha). Vote for hope and change(boohoo).

I for one, have no idea what to do to save what's left, let alone attempt to institute new progressive ideas. I think I know how the dinosaurs must have felt while watching that asteroid hit the upper atmosphere.

Maybe I shouldn't subject y'all to my pessimism. But I think that we are about to really digress into a very unrecognizable state. Misery will be very obvious and maybe it must happen this way because it usually does. Only when we are destitute, when the state cannot steal from us, that they decide that they need our output again. The state and the corporations decide our fate now. I'm too old to become a farmer or a survivalist. Fuck it.

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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm with you.
I just don't see any hope out there.
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I happen to agree with you in toto
k & r
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Other than "fighting it"... what are the alternatives?
Expatriation. OK. That's a legit option for some. But not many.

We'll continue to resist.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. yup--for honor, passive resistance til the end. Just like Gandhi.
we won't make it, but maybe we'll inspire others--

however, the corporate uberrobot has learned from our resistance and has gradually cut off its effectiveness. That's why when we have a million folks show up for an anti-Iraq war demonstration, or a pro-choice rally, nothing happens. Progressives just don't get any coverage or gain any momentum, unlike the sham rallies of Beck and Teabaggers which get fluffed into the millions by an obedient press and media. It's almost frivolous to imagine we can beat "skynet" at this point--even now they could shoot us in our beds and nobody would even investigate, if 9/11 and Plame and WMD and so on are any indication. It's just hard to believe.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Life is a bubble.
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 12:11 PM by originalpckelly


The only good thing is that there are always new bubbles forming. :-)
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. After a couple of lost decades when the people are dead broke, there'll be some change...
Edited on Sat Nov-27-10 12:10 PM by laughingliberal
I think it will take that long before the conservative mindset will see it is the corporate power that's been robbing us. A lot of countries learn sooner after the austerity programs are imposed on them but here we have too many RWers for it to happen that quickly.

I'll be gone by then but I do think the people will wise up and throw the bums out in the 2030's.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Cornel West
Video (November 2009): The Precarious Fate of Barack Obama

Transcript:

Cornel West: I think that my dear brother Barack Obama, President Obama, he's a very complicated fellow. He has a sterling democratic rhetoric at his best that reminds you of Saul Alinsky and the others at times. He has a technocratic team when it comes to policy, so there's not just a tension but oftentimes there's contradictions between the two, you see. He comes out of a black tradition that has been explicit about telling the truth about white supremacy, but he himself holds race at arm's length until there's a crisis: Jamal right here, and Skip Gates there, you see. And it's partly because he's such a masterful politician. He's brilliant, he's charismatic, he's a masterful politician. And he's concerned about cutting the deal and winning the election. And I think in the end this is going to be a major challenge for him.

He has to decide whether he wants to be an Abe Lincoln, who began as a mediocre politician -- remember, Abe Lincoln supported the first proposed thirteenth Amendment that set slavery for ever in the U.S. Constitution. Frederick Douglas bought a ticket to go to Haiti; he said, I would never live in a nation that has an unamendable amendment. Lincoln supported that. That was opportunistic at the core; he hated slavery, but he was willing to say keep these people in slavery for ever to preserve the union. You see, that's not the Lincoln that we talk about as great. Lincoln became great because of Harriet Beecher Stowe, Wendell Phillips, Charles Sumner, who was beat up by Preston Brooks from South Carolina, Frederick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman. It was the abolitionist movement that helped make Lincoln great. Barack Obama has a choice between the greatness of a Lincoln and the masterful Machiavellian sensibilities of a Bill Clinton, who was brilliant, charismatic, masterful, but tended to be too opportunistic. So far, Barack Obama has leaned more toward the Clinton side than the Lincoln side. That was partly because he doesn't have an abolitionist movement equivalent. He doesn't have a social movement. That's what we need to do: we need to put pressure on him.

Question: What would this effort look like?

Cornel West: Well, it's a very good question. I mean, the kind of thing you're doing here on the Internet is very important, because it won't take the old traditional form of just hitting the streets. Hitting the streets will be one form; it's got to take a whole host of different forms, different voices, different views, different visions put forward, critiques of what's going on behind the scenes to reveal the contradictions of the Obama administration. We need young people who are looking at the world through a very different set of lenses than even myself, because I'm old-school, you know. And no school has the monopoly on truth. Yes, I do still see classes, and I see empires and so forth and so on. But there's also ways of looking at the world through popular culture that young people have that I don't fully understand, so that some of their criticisms would take forms that it will take me time to understand and grasp, you see. But we have to have the courage to not just raise our voices, but connect into organizations so that people can begin to see there are alternatives than the old neoliberalism dressed up in fashionable form, with a democratic rhetoric that hides a concealed technocratic policy. And it could be that, you know, Barack Obama himself, you know, he's waiting to make his turn toward Lincolnesque greatness. He hasn't made it yet, and of course the decision on Afghanistan is going to be very important. It's going to be difficult to have a peace prize and be a war president.

Where's the movement? There likely will not be one because some people have already given up and are preparing for the end. Good thing Frederick Douglas stuck around.





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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. I for one do await the end. I don't believe we can survive this.
Rich machiavellian sociopath corporatist's have destroyed the USA.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree and apparently many ex-pats agree.
From: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/11/americathe-grim-truth.html

---quote---
Americans, I have some bad news for you:

You have the worst quality of life in the developed world—by a wide margin.

If you had any idea of how people really lived in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many parts of Asia, you’d be rioting in the streets calling for a better life. In fact, the average Australian or Singaporean taxi driver has a much better standard of living than the typical American white-collar worker.

I know this because I am an American, and I escaped from the prison you call home.

I have lived all around the world, in wealthy countries and poor ones, and there is only one country I would never consider living in again: The United States of America. The mere thought of it fills me with dread.
---/quote---

more at link
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The grass is always greener
A lot of people still leave those countries bound for the U.S.

More than twice as many Canadians migrate to the U.S. than do Americans to Canada.

There are pros and cons with regard to every country, and it comes down to personal choice.


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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Open the borders, bring the Bolivarian revolution up north
the sooner the better
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. "I'm too old to become a farmer or a survivalist. Fuck it."
My feelings, exactly.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here is a song to help us express our despair...
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Create communes
Really. Create small 15 to 30people to work the land and be. Close knit support in creating sulfa sustainable groups.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Sulfa sustainable
I guess that would limit STDs to a small population.

I know what you meant, but just couldn't resist.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. LOL
One of my funnier misspells.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. If nothing else SAnd in the gears at every opportunity
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Depends on how you define "progressive." Isn't cap and trade a
progressive view?

Isn't the repeal of DADT progressive?

Isn't increasing the mpg for vehicles significantly in the next several years progressive? (Or at least in the area of progressive, compared with Bush's idea to increase it by, what, 2 mpg within 2 decades or something.)

Isn't the signing of that women's bill for equal pay progressive?

Isn't setting aside a few million acres of pristine wilderness to protected from development a progressive position? (This was done last year, I think it was.)

Isn't the administration's aggressive pursuit of alternative energy the first time any administration has taken alternative energy seriously enough to put serious money behind it...isn't that a progressive idea?

And don't forget...Obama pardoned TWO turkeys on Thanksgiving, while Bush pardoned only ONE! Now, THAT'S progressive!

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-27-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Are you interested in answers?
I only ask because most here, including myself from time to time, are not.

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. The Impossible Will Take a Little While
By Paul Loeb

No concrete ideas but rather a longer view of this painful process as it has occurred through history. It's a bunch of essays, one especially memorable to me about Nelson Mandela. I've had some dark days too and expect more and that book helped at important points.

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alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'd go further
The end is extremely fucking nigh. -- graffito on a building in "28 Days Later"

while Roseanne takes it further still:
We are so far beyond fucked now that the light from fucked won't reach us for 10,000 years.

All we can do now?--advice from Scott Nearing:

Do the best you can in the place where you are, and be kind.
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