WikiLeaks set to reveal what US really thinks of David Cameron

[Joanne98]

Website to release three million embassy cables, many of them distinctly undiplomatic

David Cameron was bracing himself for the humiliation of public criticism from the Obama administration last night, as whistleblowers prepared to publish millions of classified cables between Washington and US embassies around the world.


Almost three million confidential files detailing the US government's private views on hundreds of allies and rival states are expected to be released by the website WikiLeaks this week. The White House has sent ambassadors on official missions to dozens of allies to prepare them for any damage that the cables could wreak on their relationship with the US.

Louis Susman, the American ambassador to London, met officials in Downing Street on Friday to warn them what to expect when WikiLeaks finally begins publishing details of the communications. He did not speak to Mr Cameron directly.

The Independent on Sunday understands that State Department correspondence between London and Washington covers a catalogue of sensitive diplomatic issues, including the release of the Lockerbie bomber, Britain's contribution to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Conservatives' position on the economy before the election.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/wikileaks-set-to-reveal-what-us-really-thinks-of-david-cameron-2145790.html




WikiLeaks Plans to Publish Secret U.S. Cables on Russia


WASHINGTON — Classified U.S. diplomatic cables reporting corruption allegations against foreign governments and leaders, including from Russia, are expected in official documents that WikiLeaks plans to release soon, sources said Wednesday.

The whistle-blowing web site said on its Twitter feed this week that its next release would be seven times larger than the collection of roughly 400,000 Pentagon reports related to the Iraq war that it made public in October.

Three sources familiar with the State Department cables held by WikiLeaks say the corruption allegations in them are major enough to cause serious embarrassment for foreign governments and politicians named in them.

They said the release was expected next week but could come earlier.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/wikileaks-plans-to-publish-secret-us-cables-on-russia/424882.html

[Joanne98]

1. GORDON BROWN ‘WEAK AND UNSTABLE’

GORDON Brown and his failing government were described as paranoid, weak and ­unstable in secret briefings by US diplomats to President Barack Obama.


Downing Street sources said last night that the imminent release of sensitive diplomatic files by the WikiLeaks whistleblowing website would prove “highly embarrassing” to the former prime minister.

They are thought to contain damaging assessments of Mr Brown’s character and leadership skills and of the stability of his crisis-hit regime.

US ambassador Louis Susman has briefed British officials about the likely contents of the files, which are understood to date from 2008 until early this year. They are also thought to contain thoughts about both David Cameron and Nick Clegg while they were Opposition leaders.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/214196/Gordon-Brown-weak-and-unstable-

[Pirate Smile]

2. Seems like petty TMZ crap done to alienate allies from each other. What a hero.

:eyes:

[enlightenment]

3. Why go after the leaker?

He didn't write the 'petty TMZ crap'.

Point your accusatory finger where it should go - at the 'diplomats' who apparently don't have the brains to understand what true diplomacy is . . . and you might also ask yourself what sort of friend talks that way about their friends behinds their backs.

[KittyWampus]

4. because that "crap" was said confidentially. This isn't exposing Iraqi War Crimes.

This is screwing up diplomatic relations for absolutely no reason.

[Cid_B]

54. Holy crap...

Really? Are people just now figuring out that this guy is an enemy of America? No shit...

This guy does not want good things to happen for us and that statement applies to a good many people here as well. Again... DUH....

[EFerrari]

65. We really don't know that. The State Department funds criminals

all over the world if they will help undermine governments inconvenient to the White House.

We don't know what it is in those cables yet.

[Pavulon]

5. Because he is a asshole coward. Wake me when he starts fucking with russia

that requires balls. Fucking with us diplomacy is so brave. Boy I hope his crowd takes on the Kremlin.

[originalpckelly]

10. Are you implying he's afraid of assholes?

:shrug:

Maybe the people in charge shouldn't be dissing each other. What kind of respect does this kind of stuff show? It shows the ass-kissing bullshitters for what they are, that's what it does. And I've seen your other replies about this. Such an elitist attitude you have. You are what's wrong with America. Diplomacy should be based upon honesty. Maybe the people in charge, who think they're all that will realize that, yes, this mic is on and they should be careful what they say.

[KittyWampus]

13. You 've obviously never been in a position of authority involving groups of people.

Because sometimes people can be assholes and yet you still have to be polite to them while dealing with their assholery with others in position of authority.

[Confusious]

90. Honesty is not always the best policy

Like telling your significant other "You look like shit in that"

I'm sure there are moments like that between countries.

[Forkboy]

11. Do you wish him dead?

[Pavulon]

15. No, but not really relevant because I can't roll up all his people in an afternoon

he should worry about people who can. I wish I could bang two hot Swedish chicks at the same time (and not catch a rape charge)

[Forkboy]

18. Which begs the question, if you could roll up his people in an afternoon.....?

I wish I could bang two hot Swedish chicks at the same time (and not catch a rape charge)

Not interested in your vacation ideas.

[Pavulon]

26. Cost benefit analysis. If it were a matter of them compromising things more important

than the damage done by collapsing his operation well that is a logic call right. See stacking morality against logic generally causes issues.

If they are dumping docs where we call the PM of the UK weak or get embarrassed no, I take you money and apologize with cash. If it compromised peoples lives in Iran or North Korea, they would be making arrangements, every single one of them..

[Forkboy]

32. What if it's the truth?

Does cost/benefit still override all for you? Is truth only viable when it benefits someone on your side?

See stacking morality against logic generally causes issues.

Hence our discussions.

[Pavulon]

37. Yep. The guy in North Korea or Iran's life

is worth more than a rapist in sweden. Every fucking time, and he would not be the first or last to have his reality altered. Your inability to acknowledge the reality around you does not mean it is not there.

My side supports this nation and Western Europe.

Some little twat 22 spc. and his downstream friends dont get to kill US assets with no reaction.

[Forkboy]

46. That post says so much more than you ever intended.

Not so much about Assange as about you.

Always fun talking to you, Mr. Ludlum. :toast:

[Pavulon]

48. no more no less, your milage will vary.

but hey neither one of us makes that call. in reality no one will do much to fuck with the status quo.

[Poboy]

30. WikiLeaks Plans to Publish Secret U.S. Cables on Russia

WikiLeaks Plans to Publish Secret U.S. Cables on Russia

26 November 2010
Reuters
WASHINGTON — Classified U.S. diplomatic cables reporting corruption allegations against foreign governments and leaders, including from Russia, are expected in official documents that WikiLeaks plans to release soon, sources said Wednesday.

The whistle-blowing web site said on its Twitter feed this week that its next release would be seven times larger than the collection of roughly 400,000 Pentagon reports related to the Iraq war that it made public in October.

Three sources familiar with the State Department cables held by WikiLeaks say the corruption allegations in them are major enough to cause serious embarrassment for foreign governments and politicians named in them.

They said the release was expected next week but could come earlier.

full-
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/wikileaks-plans-to-publish-secret-us-cables-on-russia/424882.html

[Pavulon]

39. I wonder If i can buy life insurance on Julian and some of his boys?

russia does not play by the rules we do.

[Poboy]

42. To quote you, "Because he is a asshole coward. Wake me when he starts fucking with russia that req

"Because he is a asshole coward. Wake me when he starts fucking with russia
that requires balls. Fucking with us diplomacy is so brave. Boy I hope his crowd takes on the Kremlin."

Well, consider yourself 'awake'. Now are you going to issue an apology?

[Forkboy]

47. All this talk of bravery from a guy posting online.

He doesn't see how funny it all is, but I bet you do. ;)

[Pavulon]

51. vs a guy using the internet to post secrets and hide from a rape charge

yep I'll take those odds. But I'm not on boingboing talking about my criminal activity. a real brave crew.

[Forkboy]

56. Innocent until proven guilty, by a goverment that I buy anything from.

Saving you time on your new motto.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

59. agreed, innocent until proven guilty, he does not help himself by hiding from the charge tho n/t

[Poboy]

64. It is to laugh, indeed. Joker gets busted for talking shit and

can't admit it.

[Pavulon]

66. Yep I'm not

enamored with the wikidick. Waiting to see who gets fucked and what the real play is.

[Pavulon]

50. Nope now he is just a stupid asshole

for fucking with the russians. I wonder if they will respond to mr assange.

[Forkboy]

58. I get a little tingle up my leg thinking about those Russians too!

They're so cool, with their extra-judicial killings and all. I've got a chubby just thinking about it. Bet you do too! :toast:

[Pavulon]

68. Hey you remember Diem, who killed that head of state

hint not a russian. But hey, lets make everything public.

[Forkboy]

76. LOL

:crazy:

[Pavulon]

80. Trivia, can you tell me the President that signed the paperwork

that buried him? But hey this whole wiki stuff is all new and scary.

[Forkboy]

87. Nope!

But hey this whole wiki stuff is all new and scary.

I know, I'm all excited!!!! And prom this weekend, too!!!!

:eyes:

[Poboy]

61. I didn't think you would own up to your cowardly act.

Most cowards just run away from their statements and hide behind, say, Russian bullies, to praise.

[Pavulon]

67. Who signed the papers to kill diem

and the last batch of assholes in pakistan? some G7 in the basement of the pentagon?

They die with a signature of the people you elect. You understand that right?

[Puregonzo1188]

78. And what rules do we play by?

[Pavulon]

81. What rules should we play by?(nt)

[originalpckelly]

7. Maybe people shouldn't be saying this to one another about our allies in the first place?

Oh no, it's the fault of the people exposing the truth. Same argument for executive privilege. Same argument.

[KittyWampus]

9. So frank assessments can't be made confidentially? Only rainbows and unicorns?

Going for a full Godwin here but... in 1940, American diplomats speaking to allies should only have called Hitler a splendid fellow, just a bit extroverted?

[originalpckelly]

16. Why shouldn't we know, this is a democracy, isn't it?

How do we know what the truth is if our government is in control of the information flow?

Which is a bigger problem:
1. Not being able to call your ally's political leaders weak.
2. The people of a country not knowing what the truth is, when they supposedly are the source of power for government.

I'd say it is definitely the people not knowing.

The secrecy cancer started in the area of diplomacy and grew outward from there. Now many things in the US government are unknown to the people. This is because we the people supposedly can't handle the truth. How do we make decisions about who we elect if we don't know the full truth?

Your argument is the basis of the argument for executive privilege. It's the exact same argument, and it is an elitist argument.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

19. so you would rather the US and other countries avoid being diplomatic with

countries and other groups they don't like the leadership of et al?

Your seriously telling me that you would prefer bad relations and hostility over some secrecy about what the diplomats(or country) really thinks about those they have to deal with?

And unless i'm wrong...no, yer a republic :) common misconception

[originalpckelly]

24. I don't need to know who had bad gas at the diplomatic reception...

I do need to know what my leaders think about other countries to make good decisions about how I elect them. Don't you? What if you're an educated citizen and you have a different opinion? Shouldn't there be accountability for the advice people receive? What if it is bad advice?

I may not pick individual diplomats, but I do elect the people who appoint them, if it's an appointee position.

Maybe being "diplomatic" shouldn't be synonymous with a good bullshitter. It is for me and I'd bet it is for other people too.

Yes, there's a point where it becomes unneeded controversy, and some of what's being released may fall into that category, if it hasn't been combed through. On the other hand, I find it very important to know that Turkey has supported al-Qaeda in Iraq. I also find it important to know our nation has supported the PKK a Kurdish rebel organization.

Our government knows Turkey supported al-Qaeda, right?
I bet Turkey's government knows we support the PKK, right?
Who are they keeping it from then? You and I. Why?

That's a big deal.

[BzaDem]

73. You do not have an absolute right of knowledge. Your right to knowledge has to be balanced with the

consequences. Therefore, after a thoughtful weighing of your right to knowledge vs the consequences, it isn't even close.

Just because you find it "very important" to know something doesn't mean you should know it. What you consider to be your "right to know" is not absolute in any way. Just because you think democracy requires no secrecy does not mean democracy ACTUALLY requires no secrecy. You are not the center of the universe -- there are other factors involved.

[flyarm]

89. Excuse me, But I do have the right to know, After all , ''I AM THE GOVERNMENT" AND WHOMEVER IS

ELECTED WORKS FOR ME AS MY EMPLOYEE.

That includes every state department personnel, every President, every congress person.

I am damn sick in tired of these people thinking I work for them or I am sub-servient to them or their fucking whims!

Perhaps there are people stupid enough to not want to know truth, but that is not me! Nor will it ever be.

I am damned sick and tired of the CIA and their working within our borders where they have no fucking business operating. I am damn sick and tired of their opps that destroy American lives or lives of innocent people both inside and outside our countries borders!

I am damn sick and tired of wars we have no business in. Not when they began, based on lies, nor the lies now to keep us in these evil wars.

I am damn sick and tired of Americans being groped at airports for bogus bullshit.

It is my money paying for this shit and don't tell me I don't have the right to know the damned truth about what is going on and I only have the privledge to pay for the fuckers at the top's whims!!

I am sick of my phones being tapped and my emails read.

I am sick and tired of paying for rendition flights and torture and Gitmo..when people in this country are going to bed without jobs , and don't know how they will feed their family tommorrow!

I am just damn sick and tired of all the damn so called leaders in this country because not a one of them has the damn guts to lead with integrity or honesty!!

All they give a damn about is feeding their greedy sob powerful buddies...that will keep them in power!

I am sick of all of them, and I damn sure want to know who what and where their asses are operating, under my name and with my money!

[BzaDem]

91. Just because you are damn sick of X doesn't mean you have the right to know everything about X

Classified (or otherwise confidential) information has been around since the dawn of time. You do not have a right to know about classified (or otherwise confidential) information, no matter how much you "want" to or are made "damn sick" by. Sure, occasionally some will be published, and the first amendment preserves that right. But that doesn't give you the right to know about unpublished classified information in general (even if you would like to know about it, or are made "damn sick" by not knowing about it).

Your analogy is not very apt either -- Coke's shareholders and board members do not know the Coke formula for example. Sure, a majority of Coke's board members could remove the CEO and put a new one that divulges the formula to the board. Likewise, if a majority of America were to elect a Congress who would declassify and a President willing to sign such a bill, then maybe you would have a right. But until then, you don't. And if you think you are about to convince a majority of the US to end classified information, well good luck with that.

[sendero]

92. You lost..

.... give it a rest.

[Occulus]

94. That one loses pretty much every argument it starts.

It's only here to stir shit up. Your best option is the red X, because it won't let you have the last word, ever.

[Catherina]

93. Hear! Hear! +10000 n/t

[bemildred]

95. Well said. nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

12. soo, if you want to be friendly with a group but consider the leader a bastard beyond compare

you should just say that to his face and alienate the whole group?

A lot of diplomacy involves dealing with people you don't like, and you can't really get much done diplomatically if you tell your 'friend' that he is a bastard beyond compare and that you wish he'd die and let ya deal with somebody 'better'


If this what most of the information in the diplomatic releases by assange deals with then my respect for the fellow just went into a spiral dive

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

36. Yeah, he is great. Let's see how much damage he can do and cheer the whole time.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

41. Sometimes it is the Country as a whole that I don't particularly enjoy seeing undermined.

That is so hard to get, I guess.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

45. What a wise person you apparently are who has a problem with certain states.

You should mock them some more because you certainly sound like the mature person in the conversation.

[laughingliberal]

6. K & R nt

[cutlassmama]

8. Noticed his rape charges were back on. From an International Court this time.

[laughingliberal]

14. Not exactly. Stockholm District Court

The Swedish government said on Thursday it would issue an international arrest warrant for Wikileaks' spokesman Julian Assange on rape charges.


A Stockholm district court ruled that Assange will be "detained in his absence" on charges of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. The decision came at a hearing where Sweden's director of prosecution Marianne Ny presented evidence related to the allegations.

"I requested his arrest so we could carry out an interrogation with Assange," Ny told the Agence France-Presse news agency. "That is the reason."

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/business-of-it/2010/11/19/wikileaks-assange-faces-arrest-on-rape-charges-40090919/

[Bodhi BloodWave]

17. sent by sweden yes, but relayed to the international organizations

who seems inclined to accept the warrant as being valid

[laughingliberal]

20. Yes. Perhaps his bid for asylum in Switzerland will be accepted. nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

23. why would he want to hide from the charges if they are obviously false tho

Surely it wouldn't be to hard for him and his lawyer to prove the charge is pure fabrications as he claims?

[laughingliberal]

29. Uh huh. nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

34. i take it you are willing to take assange at his word then whatever he says? n/t

[laughingliberal]

57. Whole thing seems a little too 'convenient' and a bit transparent to me. nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

60. i belive in evidence not feelings or assumations.

While they might be 'convenient' that does not automatically make them false.

And while i hope he will meet up and be proven innocent properly(since he is innocent until proven guilty), i am not willing to just take his words for it.

[laughingliberal]

63. Whatever. nt

[kgnu_fan]

69. The court is violating Swedish law. You can read the police report, the court actions,

etc on the web if you really are interested in learning how this whole things have moved. It is not difficult to find these facts. Use your own time to learn before asking others to spend their time for you....

[Pavulon]

71. is there a warrant for him or not?

he can go hide out with that nice man who drugged and fucked a 12 year old and ran to Switzerland. I'm sure people will pimp for him either way.

His rape allegations are separate from his espionage activity.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

75. why then would the appeals court uphold the warrant for his arrest?

I will admit that I haven't checked to see if Assange's appeal to the Supreme Court has happened yet

Don't assume people don't keep up on things or are uninterested just because they think differently then yourself

[ThoughtCriminal]

21. I can only imagine what foreign diplomatic cables say about us

And the previous administration in particular.

[originalpckelly]

25. Indeed, maybe if they'd been more honest...

it might have helped us out in this country.

[Pavulon]

28. We read them anyway. We dont post them on wikileaks.(nt)

[originalpckelly]

31. We the people should know.

Maybe we'd elect different leaders.

There's a game being played behind the backs of normal people, and it's not right.

[Pavulon]

35. The Church commission

never supported the insanity posted here while they cut the balls off the CIA. No matter who you elect the US will never conduct diplomacy in a public forum.

[bemildred]

33. That may be one of the real issues here.

Our surveillance abilities might be made clearer, directly or indirectly.

[Pavulon]

40. No those systems are worth changing the players over. Billions of dollars

would trigger a wiki rm -r faster than some embarrassing memo's.

[bemildred]

43. Only if you can.

I mean if you think that is possible, then why has it been allowed to go this far?

And what is in the cable traffic is what is in the cable traffic, there is no way now to say what other parties may be able to discern from it. If you want to stop that, you have to prevent the release, and that does not appear to be what is happening.

[Pavulon]

49. They know what manning stole by forensic work

or by encouraging him to talk, gently of course.

[bemildred]

52. Manning is not the issue.

He is already off the board.

The question was why is Wikileaks going to be ALLOWED to carry out this release? I submit that the reason is because there is no feasible means to stop them.

[Pavulon]

53. The means are worse than the damage done.

those means are not generally accepted by the American public. Unless lives will be lost taking lives is a hard sell.

[bemildred]

55. I am not defending it, I'm saying "they" cannot stop it.

It's not the same thing.

[Pavulon]

70. Sure they can but its like throwing a grenage into the phelps crowd at a funeral

sure they are assholes and scum but the president of squishing them legally or illegally is not worth it assuming assange is not killing people by proxy.

[bemildred]

72. Bah. I'm talking realpolitik here.

You have to have a realistic assessment of your capabilities and base your policies and strategies on that. This looney-tunes alice-in-wonderlandy "we make our own reality and you all just get to watch" shit has to stop.

[Pavulon]

74. Umm we own DNS servers and most traffic flows over systems running IOS

or JUNOS which we own. You think prevent a file from moving over a network and remove it from cache appliances. Cant find and kill people who try to hide but stand out more for doing so.

Really?

The problem is that extreme measures are not worth the cost unless there is life on the line.

[bemildred]

77. OK, it's not worth the cost.

I won't go into the DNS servers issue, let's just say it's not worth the cost, it's infeasible or whatever. So that means that it can be done, right? It can be got away with. And that means that astute policy would have taken steps to prevent it beforehand. Which we have failed to do. When you find yourself in the position of wanting to take "extreme measures" you have already failed.

[Pavulon]

79. No unless the wikidicks are killing people

there is no reason to mess with traffic shaping systems. Of course it is possible but I would argue killing them all outright in public would be less significant than messing with the "natural" flow of the internet.

[bemildred]

82. Well, you want to talk about how bad Wikileaks is.

I want to talk about how bad (incompetent, stupid, amateur) our government is.
So OK.

[Pavulon]

83. Oh sure they are incompotent. A 22 year old stole far more than he should have had access to

giant fuckup. but at this point all the choices are bad.

[bemildred]

84. There you go.

I want to see real reform, jobs lost, people spending more time with their families, changes in policy and attitude.

[Pavulon]

85. Starting with the person who allowed a 22 year old spc

that much access. I mean shit , file permissions are not that difficult. Then the security people who failed to notice one jackass downloading stuff at random. Also should be fired and black balled as incompetent. Guess IDS was not in place..

Actually, they probably got promoted.

Other than that not much will change, we (you too) will pay cash to unruffle feathers and the band plays on.

[bemildred]

86. Well, you worked in defense, so you know ...

The point is it will keep happening until "change" happens too.

[mmonk]

27. LOL. Quick, hide our hubris.

[Turborama]

62. "David Thatcher did not speak to anyone and hid under his bed sucking his thumb in anticipation" n/t

[Rex]

88. Hmm, if this is info from the GWB coup time period then WATCH OUT!

I can only imagine the uncensored crap would be scandalous and this could actually be very dangerous in repercussions or NOT. The US govt could stop this if they wanted to and so far won't...so what is going on here?

[girl gone mad]

96. This thread reads like the who's who of..

authoritarian claptrap pumpers.