Hot new ship and two ways of looking at it. ....

[Bigmack]

Another thread - about US carriers - got me looking at new Navy ships.

This one.. the Independence.. is a fast ship to be used in missions like pirate suppression.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?op=1&view=global&subj=170487971394&pid=1721805&id=1371813200&oid=170487971394

Wow... hot new navy ship. I went to the ship's site on FB, and on a hunch I went to Freepland to see what they thought of it.

Everybody had giant, turgid erections about this ship.

Then I went to Wiki and found this: Seems there is some problems.

"The development and construction of Independence as of June 2009 was running at 220% over-budget. The total projected cost for the ship is $704 million. The Navy had originally projected the cost at $220 million.<24> Independence began builder's trials near Mobile, Alabama on July 2, 2009, three days behind schedule because of maintenance issues.<25>

In response to problems with the propulsion plant, the ship experienced a leak in the port gas turbine shaft seal, General Dynamics resequenced the builder's trials to test other systems until this was fixed.<26> The ship completed builder's trials on October 21, 2009<27> and acceptance trials on November 19, 2009.<28>

On December 9, 2009 the Navy announced that the ship had completed its first INSURV inspection. The inspection found 2,080 discrepancies, including 39 high-priority deficiencies, but concluded that all could be resolved before the Navy accepts the ship as scheduled. The ship was delivered to the Navy on December 17, 2009. On December 18, the navy officially accepted custody of the ship.<18>

In 2010 the Navy asked for an additional $5.3 million to correct problems found in the sea trials.<31>
- - - - - -
Nice toy... $704 (plus $5.3) million worth... for pirate suppression?

How many more nifty toys can we afford while the country falls apart?

[Poll_Blind]

1. Your last two sentences just sum it up perfectly.

Although I'm not an expert on it, this ship really does seem to be a great example of what's so wrong with our out-of-control defense spending.

Of course I'm sure there was a lot of pork spread around through different states who probably made the components for that thing- few of which seem to play well together, unfortunately.

PB

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Your last two sentences could apply equally well to the TSA.

[Pab Sungenis]

3. One thing to consider.

The prototype of any ship class is always going to be more expensive than the ones that follow. When they go to build more Independence Class cruisers, they will be cheaper.

Of course, it's questionable whether we even need one, so... never mind.

[rhett o rick]

4. Pirate suppression is a joke. That billion dollar ship still wont be able to catch the small pirate

boats. But then who cares. The purpose of the ship is to enrich the defense profiteers.

And why should we worry about pirates anywaz? Oh yes, we tax-fucking-payers must protect the Exxon ships. Exxon, the most profitable corporation in history cant afford their own protection. So American tax payers (which excludes Exxon) must pay the price.

Fuck the defense dept, fuck Exxon. Just sayin'

[Kaleva]

11. Do we really want corporations hiring their own mercenary navy and army?

[rhett o rick]

12. Strange logic. Let me see if I get your point. We dont want corps to hire their own protection

so we, the US taxpayers furnish them with our military which is ruining our economy. Is that what you suggest?

The middle class cant afford to pay for the security of the world's international corporations. They should have to pay their own way.

[Kaleva]

14. And the corporations then pass on the cost to the middle class

Either way, the middle and lower class pay the bill either through taxes or increased gas prices. One must also consider what rules and laws these para-military forces hired by corporations would follow. Do they make their own rules and laws? And if they are to follow international law, who is to be there to enforce such laws? The USN maybe?

[rhett o rick]

15. You continue to make me guess at your point. Are you saying that the American

taxpayers should spend 53% of our tax dollars to protect the big international corporations? If not, please explain.

I am sure you know that Exxon doesnt pay any US taxes.

[NBachers]

5. So they've re-outfitted the Space Shuttle for a different mission? That's kinda what it looks like

"The Floating Flatiron"

[Poboy]

6. I liked this slide and caption-

Two awesome technological achievements , the USS Independence LCS - 2 and the Florida Marlins new stadium , both cost roughly the same , the new Littoral Combat Ships ( LCS ) cost is now over $700 mil each , and the Marlins stadium is just under $600 mil. Guess who's footing the bill ?


For Both? Taxpayers, These are our priorities.

[rhett o rick]

13. We are a nation of bullies. Football+war+brutal police force+brutal video games=orgasim

Did i mention Cheeney and his torture squad? The US of A is seriously fucked up.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

7. And hundreds, possibly thousands of Haitians are dying from Cholera. Fuck the DOD.n/t

[littlewolf]

8. Not a real big fan of the new indy ...

no real armor ... no real war fighting ... give me a DD / DDG .. or even a decent FFG ...
mult-mission capable ...

Now the "old" Indy .. was decent CV .... rode her once ...she was a good ship ...

[Kaleva]

10. A replacement for the OHP would be my preference.

An updated OHP using the same hull and propulsion plant would work just fine or the Navy could acquire one of the many designs of frigates already in service with other nations.

[AsahinaKimi]

20. My friend at the VA Hosptial was

On this USS INDEPENDENCE CV-62

[Kaleva]

9. The ship would be alot cheaper if its main task was pirate suppresion

It costs a great deal of money to build a ship capable of detecting and attacking enemy submarines operating in the littorals. It costs a great deal of money to build a ship capable of attacking and defending itself against the best surface ships a potential enemy may have in the littorals. It costs a great deal of money to build a ship capable of point defense against enemy anti-ship missiles. It costs a great deal of money to build a ship automated enough that it requires a crew of just 80 compared to the 20 ft. longer but half as wide Adams class DDG which reguired a crew of over 300.

It certainly wouldn't cost much, relatively speaking, to build a ship capable of defeating a fishing boat manned by pirates armed with AK-47s and maybe an RPG or two.

The OHP class FFGs are nearing the end of their service lives and a number have already been sold to third world countries. Replacing them with the very powerful Flight IIA Burke class DDG would be cost prohibitive as each Burke costs about 1.8 billion compared to the 450-550 million an Independence or Freedom class LCS would cost (lead ships of a class are always much more expensive then follow on ships).

[Angleae]

16. It seems that she was designed by committee.

The original design specifications were for a ship of about 500 tons. Now get a bunch of admirals and defense contractors in on it and it bloats to 3000 tons and $700+ million.

[rug]

17. The Department of Defense is spending over $200,000,000 on pirate suppression?

What a clusterfuck.

[unhappycamper]

18. No, the USS Independence costs $704 million dollars.

The USS Freedom costs only $584 million dollars. So far the US has spent more that $1.2 billion dollars on pirate suppression.

[rug]

19. I need a new teeshirt.