Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Wikileaks and Arab politics

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:19 PM
Original message
Wikileaks and Arab politics

Wikileaks and Arab politics

Posted By Marc Lynch

I expect to delve into the substance of the Wikileaks cables over the next few days -- I've been flagging noteworthy ones on Twitter all afternoon, and will keep doing so as I go along, and will blog at greater length about specific issues as they arise. But I wanted to just throw some quick thoughts out there now after reading through most of the first batch. My initial skepticism about the significance of this document leak, fueled by the lack of interesting revelations in the New York Times and Guardian reports, is changing as I see the first batch of cables posted on Wikileaks itself.

<...>

But, as Issandr el-Amrani pointed out earlier today, the real impact may well be in the Arab world, where rulers go to great lengths to keep such things secret. The Arab media thus far is clearly struggling to figure out how to report them, something I'll be following over the next week. One of the points which I've made over and over again is that Arab leaders routinely say different things in private and in public, but that their public rhetoric is often a better guide to what they will actually do since that reflects their calculation of what they can get away with politically. Arab leaders urged the U.S. to go after Saddam privately for years, but wouldn't back it publicly for fear of the public reaction. It's the same thing with Iran over the last few years, or with their views of the Palestinian factions and Israel. But now those private conversations are being made public, undeniably and with names attached.

So here's the million dollar question: were their fears of expressing these views in public justified? Let's assume that their efforts to keep the stories out of the mainstream Arab media will be only partially successful -- and watch al-Jazeera here, since it would traditionally relish this kind of story but may fear revelations about the Qatari royal family. Extremely important questions follow. Will Arab leaders pay any significant political price for these positions, as they clearly feared? Or will it turn out that in this era of authoritarian retrenchment they really can get away with whatever diplomatic heresies they like even if it outrages public opinion? Will the publication of their private views lead them to become less forthcoming in their behavior in order to prove their bona fides -- i.e. less supportive of containing or attacking Iran, or less willing to deal with Israel? Or will a limited public response to revelations about their private positions lead them to become bolder in acting on their true feelings? Will this great transgression of the private/public divide in Arab politics create a moment of reckoning in which the Arab public finally asserts itself... or will it be one in which Arab leaders finally stop deferring to Arab public opinion and start acting out on their private beliefs?

Now those are interesting questions.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. No comment? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'll bite. See this
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 07:44 PM by Catherina
In the Arab world, mostly silence about the Wikileaks. Al-Jazeera has become mute

The author raises some good points. I'm watching the developments with interest. It's not going to be pretty but it's going to be well-deserved. Any government that betrays its people deserves what it gets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Frankly, it may
very well be that the leaks have more to do with Middle East and Arab politics than anything else.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What kind of comment are you looking for?
We already know where you stand on this Wikileaks business based on all your other threads on this topic already.

The way I see it, as far as Middle East policy is concerned, it could go either way.

I'm willing to give Wikileaks the benefit of the doubt. I still think its better for a free people to know whats really going on in the world than to be kept ignorantly in the dark.

It really just boils down to whether you think the nanny state "government knows best" and should be the ultimate decider of what its subjects see/hear/know about.

Seems to me, Wikileaks is promoting democracy by aiding an informed citizenry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1 n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Comments about the OP article
"We already know where you stand on this Wikileaks business based on all your other threads on this topic already."

I know where other people stand, but I'm not going into threads making comment like that.

The way I see it, as far as Middle East policy is concerned, it could go either way.

I'm willing to give Wikileaks the benefit of the doubt. I still think its better for a free people to know whats really going on in the world than to be kept ignorantly in the dark.


OK. Transparency is a good thing, but foreign policy is not being conducted in an environment in which all parties value Democracy and transparency. If world representatives fail to show or believe they can't speak freely, that is not condusive to diplomacy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. +1
I'll add that up until now the OP's concern has been all about how this is an embarrassment for the US.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not all about US. Maybe it's about the bigger world out there.

Wikileaks doesn't go digging for info. It's brought to them. They verify it before they publish. They tried to work with the US government in the past, and we're blown off. And now the government is running around trying to bury them, and possibly even paying people to try to discredit them.

Too bad. It is what it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. "I'll add that up until now the OP's concern has been all about how this is an embarrassment...."
Is it possible to respond to the OP without a personal assessment about my opinion?

"Maybe, just maybe, it's not all about US. Maybe it's about the bigger world out there."

The OP is about the Arab world. Care to comment?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Keep an eye on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (and Yemen).
That's my comment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. And Iran. They are in the balance. Can they be anti Israel and anti Iran
at the same time? That is the problem they are trying to solve.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. glitch in the matrix(dupe)
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 08:00 PM by Pavulon
dupe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-10 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R.
Many governments are going to be embarrassed and exposed over the wikileaks docs.

That the Arab world isn't exempt from this is a good thing imho.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC