It's not about "embarrasing America." It's about exposing crimes.

[northernlights]

Yes, we know our government has engaged in criminal behavior against the rest of the world. I expect Wikileaks to detail those crimes, and to place responsible individuals at the center of those crimes.

Just like the video of civilian attacks in Afghanistan. War crimes. Financial crimes. Who knows what other crimes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Amen

[City Lights]

2. Thank you! nt

[Autumn]

3. Recommended.

:dem:

[fascisthunter]

4. exactly.... before it is all too late

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. i can agree with that argument

but just what crimes are revealed in the diplomatic messages sent back that are a diplomats blunt and direct view of the leader he just discussed with?

[northernlights]

7. how about $52M stolen by an Afghan official?

that's one of the cable leaks. It's in one of the threads somewhere around here today. Diplomat wired asking what to do? Official said -- nothing, let him keep it.

[Pavulon]

11. Well lets take him to jail or maybe the CIA should kill him?

getting complex huh?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

31. that one i would approve of being revealed, i asked about those that does NOT

reveal any crimes, corruption or illegal activities.

[Abq_Sarah]

6. Which explains why wikileaks threw out sho much

Crap that has nothing to do with "crimes" and everything to do with embarrassing this administration.

[northernlights]

10. really? name something "embarrassing"

the only leak I've seen so far is about the $52M stolen by an Afghan official.

Oh, also the leak about the Pakistan government pushing the Taliban to continue fighting.

Wait, I get it. The US government is embarrassed on account of the friends it keeps, right?

[Abq_Sarah]

13. Sorry, not going to jump on the

"America is the Great Satan", train.

I live in the real world.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Awww. Poor widdle, defenseless, super-power.

:nopity: :nopity:

[PSPS]

12. Don't be silly. A lot of this information concerns past administrations.

[Abq_Sarah]

18. Silly?

I'm not part of the group singing and dancing over this because they believe anything that hurts the USA is a good thing.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hissyspit]

47. Ridiculous misrepresentation. nt

[Binka]

62. Singing And Dancing?

Do you think this is your your fucking SENIOR PROM? You are a real piece of work. Not what I really wanted to say but you catch my drift.

[Abq_Sarah]

66. You've obviously missed the celebratory tone

Coming from people who think anything that hurts this administration or this country is a good thing.

When they're called on it, they tend to get bitchy and defensive.

[fascisthunter]

68. actually it's the other way around

and that's how this all started.... by exposing the truth. We are not the ones bitching about it.

:rofl:

[Pavulon]

8. As of yet, not a single crime. Only stuff backing positions you will not like

expect a go ahead for boost phase ABM technology. Expect Saudi to become open hostile with Iran. Expect Korea to become more unstable.

Sorry all you got was some policy information, and embarrassing data. No crime is there, no action will be taken.


Oh, and you will be paying to fix all the mess made by this, enjoy the show, its on you.

[northernlights]

16. the $52M stolen by Afghan VP wasn't a crime? Well I guess among friends...

and after all, it's only YOU AND I who lost that $52M....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9645082

[joshcryer]

39. Unfortunately these cables are only "secret" level. We don't know where that money is from.

So no, it's not evidence of criminality on our part. If we, as the evidence shows, don't have anything to charge him on (though we clearly were aware of it, the DEA guys found it and reported it, with due diligence), well, you gotta let the guy go.

There is of course a possibility that the money was given to him by some CIA-level agency in our government.

But the evidence does not tell us that.

[jpgray]

20. It couldn't be on the officials who completely bungled all of the above

No, it is on those who exploited their bungling, and any who support them! I don't trust Assange to determine what should and shouldn't be secret, and I don't trust the government to do so either. Yet a government too incompetent to keep important secrets is blameless in your mind, while those who would reveal their folly are the terrors of the earth.

Do you have any idea how completely ridiculous you sound?

[Pavulon]

22. Yeah, reality sounds funny. but it is at the end of the day

how this plays out. You pay to clean this shit up. One asshole leaked it, short of killing everyone with access what should we do?

[northernlights]

23. We've been paying all along. Pakistan pushed the Taliban to keep fighting...now THAT's embarrassing.

Our best friend and pals that we've been shoveling taxpayer money at to help fight the Taliban. That would be your money and mine, pal.

WE'RE ALREADY PAYING THROUGH THE NOSE.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9644600

[Pavulon]

25. Is it a crime? now you know the whole situation you are in a position to become

the envoy to Pakistan and fix it all. Bring a suitcase filled with cash..

[jpgray]

29. Yes, need-to-know was followed with diligence and precision here

To demand anything more would be to murder everyone with access! This was the best that can be done!

You are bringing more laughs to this afternoon than I would have believed possible.

[Pavulon]

30. Another person who has never lived Army stupid

see with an Intel MOS you get access to massive amounts of information. Could be nuclear weapons information. Operational planning, or communications. You don't think some dude with chickens on his shoulders does all that grind work do you? Its all E-3 ish guys (and gals)

Obviously a system should have caught Bradley stealing. However once Bradley let the information out the choices are limited. Accept it or begin taking measures to get it back. That would require actions most people (and I) would not approve of. Unless the situation was dire, killing wikidicks people is not helpful.

does that help a bit?

[jpgray]

35. This PFC needed to know

Perhaps we should be relieved. After all, what might have happened had Manning -lacked- access to a quarter million diplomatic cables? I shudder to think of the consequences. No fault on the government side of things, then--of that we can be certain.

[joshcryer]

40. Heh, secret level access is relatively easy to get.

There's a reason a PFC had access.

[joshcryer]

37. Yeah, so far I haven't seen anything criminal, mostly the US playing "worlds police."

US needs to just admit that is what it's doing.

[LanternWaste]

65. Nor a single death either, as had been prognosticated...

Nor a single death either, as had been dramatically prognosticated. Seems the Brain Trust is wrong on this one all the way around... :shrug:

[Bluerthanblue]

9. what crimes are being released in this new dump? And release

information that is NOT criminal but simply offensive or embarrassing?

Doesn't that cause YOU to question the motivation/agenda of the person doing the promoting of the "leaks"?

It sure as hell does me- and if there is evidence of criminal activity why not bring that to those who can really DO something about it rather than treating it like a 'commodity' that is 'yours' to use or not? Where is "Wikileaks" on the other abuses and crimes that are being committed by all kinds of nations throughout the world?

[EFerrari]

21. You mean like the State Deparment calling for credit card numbers

for UN officials, including the Special Rapporteur for Torture?

And who exactly do you believe will do anything about this? We couldn't get Pelosi behind impeachment even with evidence of a false cause for war and of torture. Do you seriously believe these people will police themselves? Ever?

Wikileaks gets material from all over the world. Maybe the American material is just especially bothersome to you.

Maybe realizing that this, like so many things, isn't about Obama will help you. He's only one actor in this situation.

[Pavulon]

24. So spying on diplomats is a convictable crime..

you have smoked your weight in crack if you think impeachment is even on the table.

Wikileaks got info from one guy who will die in federal custody.

It supersedes obama he is warming the chair, these policies have been in place for decades.

Realize that and you will see the dump for what it is. Sound and fury, and a mess to be fixed with cash and favors.

wait and see, mark my words.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. I'm not saying this is about "Obama" EFerrari- I don't understand

your comment.
Or to be honest, your belief that what Julian Assange is doing he is doing with the goal of ending abuses of power, or because he is a champion of "transparency"-
Who is there to 'police' WIKILEAKS if not those of us who have the temerity to question why he's doing this, why he doesn't expose the wrongs of ALL nations- as WELL (not instead of the US)- You claim that he is an 'equal-opportunity exposer' but I've yet to see ONE single example of his exposing the classified materials of Israel- or China- or even his native Australia.

How will his release of these documents stop anything? Can you explain your concept of the 'good' that he is doing? How his promoting and posturing these 'leaks' are going to make any TANGIBLE difference in what has happened- is happening- and WILL happen?

I would have LOVED it if Bush had been impeached- but I don't believe that Nancy Pelosi is the reason that it never happened. I also don't believe the last chapter has been written about the Bush/Cheney/Yoo torture and war crimes issue yet.

Most of us who were paying attention as things went down aren't surprised by what is being leaked, and I don't believe those who chose to ignore the facts that were out there all along are going to be swayed by the new leaks-

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

45. Julian is not Wikileaks. This has already been pointed out to you.

Wikileaks is a network of people, of whistleblowers.

Maybe it would be helpful to go find out who they are and what they do.

:shrug:

[joshcryer]

41. Credit card fraud prevention is criminal?

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

53. The State Department wanted UN Official's credit card numbers

to prevent fraud? :wtf:

[jeff47]

52. Not a crime

More to the point, the UN has been spied on by everyone since it was created in 1945.

[EFerrari]

54. Yes, we have the UN in New York probably just for that purpose

most likely.

However, there used to be laws about collecting the private financial information of individuals, let alone biometric information and DNA. :)

[jeff47]

57. Those laws don't cover people giving up that information willingly.

Pick up a cigarette the diplomat threw in the trash, and you've collected his DNA legally.

[EFerrari]

60. The UN has responded.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4633979

[jeff47]

64. And yet, doesn't change that one can collect this information legally. (nt)

[ProSense]

14. Can anyone list the crimes that have been exposed?

There was this report: China directed Google hacking: leaked US documents

Is that a crime? Are there more?

[northernlights]

19. already have listed 1 crime. waiting for your list of embarrasments.

I'm sure more crimes will come.

[ProSense]

27. Where is the crime?

I missed the listing.

[Catherina]

15. Rec'd. Crimes and lies that oppress, impoverish and kill. n/t

[MindandSoul]

17. Exactly! And you can't embarass someone (something) that hasn't done

anything wrong!

Embarassement is a very small price to pay for all the evil our leaders have committed!

[Pavulon]

26. The eebil of securing HEU in pakistan or trying to reunite korea?(nt)

[ProSense]

28. "And you can't embarass someone (something) that hasn't done anything wrong!"

Really? People are embarrassed everyday who haven't committed crimes.

[TroglodyteScholar]

69. Wow, I hope you rethink that position for about 2 seconds.

How ridiculous.

[tavalon]

32. Thank you

Somehow the simplest, most obvious things get lost in the noise.

[Imajika]

33. What crimes have been revealed so far?

No charges have resulted from anything wikileaks has put out there where the US Government or military is concerned - not even a hint of any charges.

You can't just declare something a crime and suddenly it is. We have courts of law for that.

No prosecutions will result in anything released here, well, with the exception of Manning who will go to prison for the rest of his life.

All this does is cost US taxpayers a bunch of money to harden security, embarrasses the Obama administration and makes it harder for them pursue diplomacy and foreign policy, and ultimately will result in even MORE secrecy as intelligence will be further relegated to fewer people and given higher classifications to keep it away from as many as possible.

Absolutely not one good thing will come from this.

[Number23]

46. +1 I thought all of the smart people had left DU.

Lots of responses in this thread prove otherwise. Glad to see that a few smarties are still sticking around. :)

[LostInAnomie]

34. I doubt it.

If it was about exposing crimes, why do I need to read communications about what kind of people foreign dignitaries are?

[joshcryer]

42. Exactly, it was expoising possible crimes and peculiar behavior and profiles of other countries.

That's all. It's only marginally embarrassing for the USA.

[stray cat]

43. Talking is now a crime? Do you really want all your correspondence published?

[ladjf]

48. For the most part, the rich are excluded from criminal prosecution

in the U.S. and most other Countries as well. I know that comes as a shocker for everyone. As long as this remains the practice, our so-called Democracy is a shame, played out against the non-rich. nt

[felix_numinous]

49. Truth sets us free

[old mark]

50. Right...if the government had been even a little honest, they would have

nothing to fear...looks as though some careers may be affected, which is their biggest worry...


mark

[Catherina]

55. It's amazing that the same people who want our every move and breath scrutinized

are against scrutinizing the government.

Throw all the bums out so we can start again and have something a bit more honest.

[jeff47]

51. Then where's the crime?

So far, nothing released from Manning's stolen data has revealed a crime committed by the US.

[librechik]

56. back in the day, these were crimes. Now they are mere bungles. Look forward, not back.

go home and watch repeats of Dancing with the Stars and Jersey Shore. There is no hope of justice anyway.

:sarcasm: except for the last part, sadly.

[JohnnyBoots]

58. Imagine if we had Wikileaks around during Iran-Contra? NT

[earth mom]

59. It's about exposing the corruption of the U.S. government to it's people.

The very people who won't do jack shit about the corruption and who buy into the terror terror bullshit and let the TSA all over their junk on the drummed up excuse of catching the ever elusive and impossible to catch boogeyman. It's all just more propaganda to frighten, terrorize and control the populace. :argh:

* & Cheney & the rest of the criminals to The Hague!!!

[Swamp Rat]

61. k&r

[seabeyond]

63. from what i am hearing, it is not crimes exposed but assessments of leaders ect....

which is what diplomats do.

if this person wants to be taken serious, he differentiates from crime and confidential, gossip.

[lsewpershad]

67. Darn right!