It's curious to observe many of the same people accusing Obama supporters

[WonderGrunion]

of simply following a "Cult of Personality" are now fawning all over Julian Assanage and trying to prove the case for his historical significance and value to American society.

No comment on it, just an interesting observation.

[lamp_shade]

1. With the exception of a few courageous souls, you'll be hard-pressed to find any Obama supporters

posting here anymore. I suspect most just stop by to lurk a while and rec or unrec a thread.

[WonderGrunion]

2. I've been doing that since the November election

But I intend to post more often now. Grantcart leaving was a bit of a wake up call to me. We need more support for the Democratic Party on Democratic Underground.

[lamp_shade]

3. He left a big empty hole here. My heart was broken.

[JTFrog]

4. + 1000 n/t

[TheWraith]

116. Amen to that. nt

[bobburgster]

22. I beg to differ.

Though I'm not getting into ranting with others. I do check in, and usually post, daily

[lamp_shade]

36. You are among the few courageous I spoke of. I thank you.

:hi:

[bobburgster]

148. Ha, thanks, but it is simpler then that.

I have a good instinct about people. I really like Obama, and truly believe he is doing a great job under very trying circumstances.

[DevonRex]

82. Well, I stop by to

laugh. :hi:

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

124. I am offended by this thread, it singles out those who aren't in lock-step as not

being pure enough for DU.

[JTFrog]

5. K&R!

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Way to equivocate your broad brush smear! K&U nt.

[WonderGrunion]

7. Where was the smear?

I never called anyone a name. The only "spin" word used was "fawning". I'm pretty sure that isn't on any of the banned word lists.

[jaxx]

8. Very good observation.

Thanks.

[WonderGrunion]

10. You're quite welcome

I intend to post a series of OPs today to remind everyone just who our President is and all the good he has done for our country.

[jaxx]

12. I am looking forward to them.

It's time to stop the madness and remember who we are.

[WonderGrunion]

13. Here's the first one on Executive Orders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9647756

We would do better to apply for FOIA requests under this than listen to Assanage's ego trip.

[jaxx]

17. Nice.

I added the 2010 link to yours. ;-)

[Bluerthanblue]

35. I am too-

:hi:

[Bobbie Jo]

46. Be prepared to get shut down in short order...

Of course, you probably already know this.

That said....I applaud your efforts.

[WonderGrunion]

47. I will not go soft into that good night

Besides, most of the naysayers I have on ignore. I couldn't read their complaints if I wanted to.

[superduperfarleft]

89. TRUTH 2 POWER!!!111ONE

:rofl:

[cali]

9. I don't find it curious at all

it's just the way people are.

[OKNancy]

11. It's the way people are at DU... find some sort of "hero"

until that hero turns out to be only out for themselves. Assanage is not on "our side" IMO.. He is just out for himself.
Just wait. It will be like Bev Harris, Madsen, seventhson, Leopold... and every other person that some build up and then turns out to be either nuts or a charlatan.
I can see value to maybe leaking documents about torture, but this latest stuff is like tabloid gossip. It's done strictly to hurt US interests.
Now if anarchy and bringing down the USA is what people here want, fine...then Assange is your hero.

[lamp_shade]

37. Well said, oknancy.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. I agree- but it's not a DU phenomenon "It's the way people are."-

Your last two sentences are SPOT ON imo!

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

75. Yup; I bought into Bev for a while. Now, DU's latest "wonderfulness"

makes me all the more skeptical.

[PeaceNikki]

93. PERFECTLY stated!

:thumbsup:

[Greyhound]

132. Upon what do you base this accusation? How do you justify our government's actions?

And how is keeping them secret of any benefit to us?

[Number23]

150. Abso-fucking-lutely. You came very close to winning the thread.

So I'll give you a

Now if anarchy and bringing down the USA is what people here want, fine...then Assange is your hero.

Preach it, sister. Although I have come to believe that some of the folks rooting the hardest for Assange haven't put more than 4 seconds of thought into it either way. :hi:

[VMI Dem]

14. Unrec. Down..down...down.

[WonderGrunion]

15. What do The Presets have to do with this?

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Presets/_/Down+Down+Down

Why so serious?

[SidDithers]

16. K&R...

good post.

Sid

[Vinca]

18. It's interesting Assange is the the transparent one.

[WonderGrunion]

19. How is someone in hiding in another country transparent?

If he had any courage he'd step forward and spend time imprisoned like Gandhi or Dr. King. You know, real champions of justice in the world.

[Union Scribe]

20. Says the anonymous guy on the internet.

He's putting his ass on the line. You? Not so much.

[WonderGrunion]

21. I'm not claiming transparency though

Assanage is no more putting his ass on the line than Roman Polanski is.

[Union Scribe]

23. No, you're anonymously bashing someone for not being public enough.

Which, considering his ranking on the PTB's shit list, is pretty understandable to anyone not trying to discredit him.

[WonderGrunion]

24. My OP mentions nothing about him going public

I was responding to someone's claim of Assanage being transparent (while leaving unspoken the inference that Obama is not transparent).

I'm an antidisestablishmentarian. I have no use for internet anarchists and don't believe they add anything to our value as a society.

[xiamiam]

25. silly comment..nt

[WonderGrunion]

27. How so, they both hide in other countries

to avoid American prosecution. And some assholes blindly worship Polanski too.

[Segami]

108. Thats ridiculous.

[WonderGrunion]

113. True Roman did get arrested

Assange isn't even that brave.

[ZombieHorde]

39. "If he had any courage"

You think Assange has no courage? Really?

[WonderGrunion]

42. He took no risks to get the information. He's taken no risks to post it.

At least Salman Rushdie created something on his own before going into hiding. Assanage is no better then my out of state relatives that keep forwarding right wing e-mails.

[ZombieHorde]

50. You are a much more optimistic and trusting person than I. nt

[Renew Deal]

61. I don't think he does.

I think he's a coward with access to information. If he had courage he'd be out in the world.

[ZombieHorde]

154. What purpose would being out in the world serve?

Exposing oneself to danger without benefit is not courage, it is foolishness.

[Renew Deal]

155. What's the danger?

:shrug:

[ZombieHorde]

159. He just pissed off a whole bunch of governments, and some of those governments use rendition. nt

[Renew Deal]

59. What hole is he sitting in?

He's about as "transparent" as Bin Laden.

[mmonk]

26. People will disagree over both. Doesn't make your beliefs

stronger unless you have some sort of point short of just finger pointing at others.

[WonderGrunion]

33. Is that a a passive way of goading me into a personal attack

or broad brush smear against a group of people at DU? It certainly seems like it.

[mmonk]

53. How would you characterize your op?

[WonderGrunion]

60. It's an observation of a phenomenon.

And nothing more. Do you doubt the truth of what I've observed?

[mmonk]

66. Your op was pretty broad brushed and linked two things

which a person may feel one or the other is justified, but not necessarily together.

[WonderGrunion]

106. Broad brush statements, that are NOT attacks, are not against the rules

Just an observation.

[LWolf]

28. Pathetic. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Unrec for whiny finger-pointing. -nt

[WonderGrunion]

30. Thank you and the ignored poster above you for keeping this kicked.

No message, just an observation.

[donco6]

31. I wanna see Julian's abs! He's dreamy!

Where can I find that?

[WonderGrunion]

32. This is the best I could find

Most pictures of him online have him with jacket and tie too.

[YOY]

41. Do you have one where he's got sunglasses on and we can put in "just deal with it" text?

I need that!

[WonderGrunion]

45. How's this one from "Vogue"

[muffin1]

34. K&U...nt

[lillypaddle]

38. K&R n/t

[ZombieHorde]

40. A lot of people want a fighter. nt

[WonderGrunion]

43. And yet they settle for Assanage, who has fought for nothing.

Standards get lower all the time I guess.

[ZombieHorde]

160. I agree standards are lower than they have been, but this is because of our leaders.

Who is standing up against torture and rendition? At least wikileaks is informing the public, this is much more than most.

[creon]

44. really?

I am afraid that I do not do 'personality cults'. Obama may be in the wrong place at the wrong time; a president in an era where no one would succeed. Being black does not help.

The two men are not comporable.

[treestar]

48. I'm waiting for suggestions he run for POTUS

:rofl:

It always happens. On a ticket with Elizabeth Warren! :rofl:

After Feingold/Grayson, of course!

[WonderGrunion]

49. At least Warren, Feingold and Grayson are Americans

Suggestions that Assanage run for President are as stupid as those for Scwarzenegger.

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. I think I read some DU'ers post last night calling Assange the Greatest President this country has

ever had...

[Tatiana]

52. I could care less about Julian. He probably does have a bit of ego.

You'd have to in order to dump the information he has on the public.

And he's just one person... a figurehead, if you will. There are obviously many within our own government who are disgusted by our coup-supporting, anti-democracy foreign policy.

The real heros will be the ones who succeed in punishing those who have perpetuated America's crimes upon the innocent citizenry of other nations.

[fascisthunter]

54. and It's Curious to Observe Lame attempts to Smear a Group of Duers

why not just say what you wish to imply and be done with it... these posts are goofey and infantile. Notice all the unrecs? The kicking here is not helping you much.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. It's the text of the FIRST checkbox, forfuxake! -nt

[WonderGrunion]

63. You seem really upset that this hasn't been locked yet.

Exactly where in my OP did I mention DU at all?

[WonderGrunion]

57. Once again, considering the first poster couldn't answer...

Where is the smear? Was it "fawning"? That's the only "spin" word I used and I don't believe it is banned from use in anyway on DU.

It's curious that the left insists on being able to bash Democrats from a left perspective but they don't want to be bashed from a Democratic perspective.

[EFerrari]

70. Isn't it a little early to be bashing anyone? Can't you wait

until I grab some coffee?

lol

[Warren Stupidity]

153. sheesh

you are claiming that the 'DU left' has a cult of personality problem with Julian Assange but hiding that obvious smear by putting forth the equally false theory that this same DU left routinely attacks Obama supporters here for having a cult of personality problem, and that the issue is one of 'double standards' - a standard rhetorical use of equivocation to cloak the actual attack.

[Renew Deal]

62. I think he said what he wished.

And you got the message.

[WonderGrunion]

68. Actually this Op is "On the Fence"

Meaning a nearly equal number of Recs and Unrecs. I'm pretty sure you mis-spelled "goofy" as well.

Just correcting the obvious mistakes you missed in your first edit.

[Jack Sprat]

151. It's one of those rabbit punches

thrown by the desperately obsessed cult members. They raise up, throw a punch, and dive back in their hole.

[NashVegas]

55. Oh Lord, You're Adorable

Really cute.

[WonderGrunion]

58. My girlfriend says the same thing.

Thank you for affirming her opinion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. except they are worshipping his work, not necessarily his marvelous ability to give speeches

its hard to make a cult of personality claim, when most people evaluate the actual work of wikileaks rather than develop a bond with assange.

[WonderGrunion]

65. All Assanage did is forward stuff passed on to him

He's done no more work than any Facebook page owner does.

Obama, however has done more actual work for civil rights and nuclear non-proliferation than any President in my life time.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. You mean besides the huge personal risks he took to fwd this stuff?

The cult of personality about Obama, began much before obama could work on non-proliferation. It began with posting pictures of how handsome he was, how gorgeous his family was, how wonderful his speeches were. I hardly see that about wikileaks.

I will admit to personally having a cult of personality issue with Bill Clinton for a long time, and I see the same reactions from others to Obama. I hardly see it with Assange

Till Assange (by the way, you consistenly add an extra A to his name) came under threats and attack, i barely even heard his name mentioned. It was his work through wikileaks that became famous.

Admiring someone's work and admiring someone's looks/charm are very different things. I am not saying that Obama hasn't done some very good work as a President, he certainly has, but to compare the worshipping he gets, to Assange, is a huge stretch in logic.

[WonderGrunion]

71. Obama-Lugar passed before he even ran for President

His only national exposure before that was the "One America" speech at the Democratic convention before that.

Thank you for pointing out that I'm mis-spelling his name. I will spell it correctly from here on out. Assange has taken no risks until he steps foot inside the Untied States and makes himself subject to potential prosecution. Until then he is no more a risk taker than Roman Polanski is.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. You cant possibly be that naive. The US has taken many governments down,

i think Assange puts himself at grave personal risk.

I am not sure i necessarily approve of all documents leaked by Assange, but I do know a bad argument and your cult of personality argument is just not logical. There has to be a personality to worship, and Assange isn't that familiar to people.

The reason I dont necessarily agree with leaking all documents, is because i do believe that some foreign relations require diplomacy. And diplomacy by nature is secretive. However people could have a difference about opinion on this, without being accused of indulging in a cult of personality.The cult of personality continues with Obama, when liberals and democrats forgive him for things they wanted to burn Bush over. Its about Obama, not about a value or ideals or beliefs. If someone else did it, it would be wrong, if Obama does it, it must be ok.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. It's interesting that, depending on what the spin being spun is...

Assange is (a) shortly going to be crushed by the Most Righteous and Manly Superpowered Infallible Soldiers of ChristAmerica to teach every terrorist-loving lefty a lesson, or (b) a cowardly nobody because he isn't putting himself at any risk.

You can't have both.

[lamp_shade]

78. He's hiding in a spider hole somewhere. Why do you suppose that is?

[WonderGrunion]

83. Considering I have NEVER said he's going to be crushed

I don't have to have both. I'll stick with B.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

104. Of course not. A has its own enthusiasts.

Specialization yields better performance.

[ProudDad]

92. Who's "fawning"?

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

76. Don't you know?

If you admire anybody I don't like, it's worship! :crazy:

[superduperfarleft]

91. You mean people disagree with me on DU? What has DU become?

:cry:

[WonderGrunion]

96. +7

Just saying.

[superduperfarleft]

97. Glad we agree. n/t

[L0oniX]

69. A well deserved unrec.

[Scurrilous]

72. K & R

:thumbsup:

[superduperfarleft]

74. It's curious to observe how "Obama supporters" are incapable of discussing

policy instead of personality, and instead have to resort to strawman OPs where they all come in and have a great big "yeah, i totally agree" circle jerk.

[WonderGrunion]

79. So you missed my other two OPs today about Obama's policies?

I'll have to kick them to the top for you.

[superduperfarleft]

80. Already read them. Not sure what that has to do with your OP here. n/t

[WonderGrunion]

81. I'm obviously not "incapable" of discussing policy

or achievement. It has less to do with my OP and more to do with repudiating your response to it.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WonderGrunion]

85. So, what you intended to say was "Incapable in this thread"?

I'm not sure what you are saying exactly. It seems that you are trying to get me to commit to your assessment that my OP is a personal or broad brush attack, which it is not. I don't even mention DU in my OP.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superduperfarleft]

102. Not sure what rule I broke, but whatever.

Yes, your OP is a broad brush attack on those with whom you disagree, and it's couched in a strawman argument that people have to be "worshiping" Assange just because we don't have a problem with the leaks.

And since I have no idea why my posts keep getting deleted, I'm just going to bow out before I inadvertently get myself in trouble. :shrug:

[WonderGrunion]

107. The name calling in them were considered personal attacks

The OP is a broad brush statement, but not an attack.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

152. lol... awesome

[DainBramaged]

145. It is an attack, it attacks DU members who don't think like you.

:mad:

[Desertrose]

86. Actually this is a "comment".

"fawning all over Julian Assanage"

Just sayin'

[ProudDad]

90. There is NO "fawning" over Julian Assange

There's deep appreciation for the concept of Wikileaks -- short-circuiting the "National Security State(tm)"...

A desire that it continue...

And gratitude that even if the functionaries of the Corporate States of America "take him out" there will be dozens ready to take his place...

Nice try at a red herring though... :shrug:

[WonderGrunion]

94. You must have missed his pictorial in Vogue

I posted a sample up above. He's just another fame monger obsessed with his own image.

I fully expect a year from now, he'll be posting White House grocery bills just because they were given to him. Assange doesn't care about truth at all beyond the fact that it get's him on TV and in Magazines.

[superduperfarleft]

95. Yeah, we missed it because we're busy discussing issues as opposed to

"fawning" over someone's spread in Vogue. :shrug:

[ProudDad]

100. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that Mr. Assange

is risking his life...

To tweak the nose of the Empire...

And expose their Crimes...

For a picture in a magazine?

---------------------------------------------

If you do, you're more shallow than you could EVER believe him to be... :eyes:

[WonderGrunion]

103. I believe the person that gave those documents is risking their life

I think Assange is just exploiting their efforts for his own gain.

[ProudDad]

127. Then IMHO

you are SERIOUSLY deluded...

Assange has put himself in the cross-hairs of the nastiest Empire to sit astride Earth in human history...

Just to get his picture in the paper...

What a curious world view you have... :eyes:

[Javaman]

98. I see the character assissinaton squad is on the job. nt

[de novo]

101. Utter flame bait.

Void of any content or substance.

[WonderGrunion]

105. Do you deny that their is fawning over Assange

I see his name paraded all over the internet but very little mention of the man that is suspected of providing him those documents. Assange only cares about press for himself, not "truth".

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. The same can be said of ANY person that does ANYTHING that a big enough part of the public approves.

No matter what.

Hence, no content. Just a fallacy.

I've seen this canard thrown at lots of people before. Obama himself, for instance. Richard Dawkins. Alan Grayson. Linus Torvalds. Steve Jobs. Hell, even liberals sometimes do it, referring to manifestations of approval of some right-wing figure.

Brings zero information. It's just a standard rhetorical procedure. "No content", is, therefore, the most spot-on assessment of it.

[PeaceNikki]

111. I dunno, there's a different kind of feel.

Threads calling for him to get a Nobel Prize, vote for him as Time Person of the Year, repeated uses of "hero", etc.

I remember one Democrat in particular who was called "the ONLY Democratic leader worth a damn", "ONLY one with scruples", "comparable to Ghandi", "should be a 'saint'". Literally. That's creepy.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

112. My point is, you can find people saying such things about ANY public figure. -nt

[PeaceNikki]

115. DU has a tendency of latching onto the hero of the moment and putting them on a really high pedestal

OKNancy said it well here with examples: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9647631#9647760

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

118. OK, let's make a thought experiment. Think of 5 public persons you admire.

(OK, it's all right if there's fewer than that.)

You think they rock, because of what they say/write/do.

Because you're a person with functioning brains (a fact I had the opportunity to personally confirm), it's not fawning, fanboyism or worship. It's just that, admiration.

Then somebody comes and starts painting broad brushes at the "mindless" "fawning" and "worshipping" of that person(s).

[PeaceNikki]

120. I think you're taking that too personally.

There are fawners, fanboi/grls and worshipers of the hero-of-the-day. I don't think *YOU* are one, but they are there.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

121. I clearly see a subtext of "if you like him, you're one of those".

I've seen that before, about other subjects.

Hell, I can't say that "The Ancestor's Tale" is a great book without getting that crap. And don't get me started about Linux.

[PeaceNikki]

122. Ah, I understand.

Well, FTR, *I* don't think you are "one of those". ;)

As is usually the case, the truth lies somewhere in-between. There are some people fawning and there are some with reasonable admiration.

[ProudDad]

128. "That's Creepy"

So is this knee-jerk OP... :shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

131. Eye of the beholder and all that jazz.

:shrug:

[ProudDad]

133. Not really...

In most things there is a preponderance of Truth and Facts on one side of an "argument" as opposed to the other...

It's the recent propaganda trick of big media (the most effective propaganda machine in the history of the world) pretending that "both sides" (as if there are only two) of the argument have equal validity that has destroyed rational thinking...

Especially here in the Empire -- The Corporate States of America...

---------------------------------------------

So the OP started off with a pair of serious logic errors...

1) That those who applaud Wikileaks and hope that Assange can survive to release more documents constitute a "Cult of Personality"
2) That those who criticize Obama's weak administration are accusing Obama supporters of constituting a "Cult of Personality"

Neither of these are true so the OP is basically bullshit designed to attract flames and get attention for the poster's other (equally fallacious) threads...

The same sort of thing that the OP is accusing Assange of in this thread, eh?

How curious... :shrug:

[de novo]

146. I don't deny that this is a false equivalence flame bait thread.

Regardless of any perceived 'fawning' on your part. I see people proud and supportive of both Assange and Manning.

[girl gone mad]

110. One has been a net force for good.

The other, not so much. :(

[WonderGrunion]

114. Obama has passed more liberal and progressive legislation

than any president in my lifetime (I'm 40)

The other is manufactured internet sensation like Tila Tequila.

Just an observation.

[laughingliberal]

117. Well, there's the problem! Anything even barely to the left of Reagan is now considered 'liberal'

Just an observation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

119. Liberal? It's FAR LEFT! SOCIALISM!!11!!!atan(pi/4)11!

[girl gone mad]

126. I hear that often enough.

In reality, the lives of the people I encounter have not improved, even slightly, as a result of this supposed onslaught of supposedly progressive legislation.

Just an observation.

[ProudDad]

129. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9647854&mesg_id=9649275

[TexasObserver]

123. Another Straw Man.

Do you really think this kind of argument convinces anyone of anything, other than that your arguments lack substance?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

125. It IS a comment and a silly one.

I support what Assange is doing (at great risk),
and I'm not fawning, and I do not accuse Obama
supporters, including myself, of being in a cult
of personality. Unrec for flamebait.

[Hannah Bell]

130. i actually think assange is some kind of operative, working for hidden interests,

[ProudDad]

135. Truth and Justice

Yep, I agree...

Truth and Justice are subversive now days...

[Hannah Bell]

141. doubtful. if it were for truth & justice it wouldn't be getting so much press.

[ProudDad]

134. This OP started with 2 serious errors of fact and logic

1) That those who applaud Wikileaks and hope that Assange can survive to release more documents constitute a "Cult of Personality"
2) That those who criticize Obama's weak administration are accusing Obama supporters of constituting a "Cult of Personality"

Neither of these are true so the OP seems to be designed to attract flames and get attention for the poster's other (equally fallacious) threads...

The same sort of thing that the OP is accusing Assange of in this thread, eh?

How curious... :shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

136. Straw Man. eom

[DainBramaged]

139. Yeppers, more like flypaper

:hi:

[LostInAnomie]

137. There's a sizable group that sees embarrassing the US...

... or the US get a bloody nose as innately good. As if making it making it extremely difficult for the US to practice diplomacy makes us a safer and better country.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Obama bashers and the Wikileaks lovers share the same short sighted views. :sarcasm:

[ProudDad]

144. It's ALWAYS a good thing to expose the fact

that the Empire has no clothes...

Nor any legitimacy...

[LostInAnomie]

147. Yeah, that would be great if that was what actually happened.

Most of this crap is gossip (Gadaffi's big boobed nurse, and Putin's "bro-mance" with Berlusconi) and tidbits that most people already knew. It doesn't do anything but make diplomacy more difficult.

Wikileaks isn't trying to expose anything, it's just trying to embarrass.

[ProudDad]

156. The Empire is impervious to "embarrassment"

but not to exposure...

Hooray for Wikileaks!!! :woohoo:

[LostInAnomie]

158. Yeah, we should be overjoyed that diplomacy is going to be that much more difficult....

... now that no one will be willing to speak openly with our diplomats out of fear it will be leaked.

[ProudDad]

161. You really believe that it's such a binary situation?

Anyway, the more difficult it is for the Empire to do its "business", the sooner folks might get the idea that the status-quo...

Consisting as it does of;

The National Security State(tm)

The Permanent War Economy(tm)

The Corporate States of America(tm)

The Wars on <fill in the blank> (tm)

And (most importantly) the destruction of Mother Earth for the short term profit of the Global Corporate Capitalist Masters...

Are all BAD ideas!

And we should make them try something else...

[Number23]

149. You win the thread. + A batrillion

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Obama bashers and the Wikileaks lovers share the same short sighted views.

[ProudDad]

157. So it's "short-sighted" to recognize...

That the days of cheap fossil fuels are nearly over...

That burning all of that fossil fuel to power an "infinite growth economy" on a finite Earth is causing Catastrophic Global Climate Destabilization...

That the phony Ponzi-scheme capitalist "economy" built on debt money is unsustainable and is (hopefully) finally collapsing under its own weight...

And is creating misery for the 90 out of 100 folks on Earth who benefit very little from that "economy" (if at all) during that collapse...


And nothing Obama (or the republicrats or democans) are doing will do shit about the above crisis of the Long Emergency...


And you get all kerfuffel about some leaks from the bowels of the "National Security State(tm)"...and characterize people who applaud another small step to end the "Permanent War Economy(tm)" that's stealing resources from the job we MUST do if large air-breathing mammals are to be able to survive on Earth as "short-sighted"...

Now THAT'S short-sighted... :eyes:

[Bluenorthwest]

138. I have not see that, and don't think you have

You make a silly, faith based claim, unsupported but allegedly common as hell. I think people are discussing what that man did, not who he is or his personality in anyway. The event of the release is huge news, like it or not.
And you do comment on it, with every characterizing, McCarthyite word your twist out out of your keyboard.
"Many say" you claim, as do all who have no proof. Many say. Many say many say many things, chum.

[Bluebear]

140. There must be a photo thread of Julian in a swimsuit I missed that caused great swooning. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

143. Many say he's bound for People Magazines Sexiest Whistle

Blowers Alive. Many say. Many.