Man oh man, that 9/11 thing sure worked out well.

[Stinky The Clown]

This isn't a MIHOP/LIHOP thread in any way, shape, or form. As you will see, whether 9/11 was one of those two, or exactly as it was reported is immaterial to the outcome. A smart person makes the best of the circumstances faced. A smart person would have reacted favorably to those events.

Since 9/11, the day "everything changed," everything did, indeed, change.

Mass delusion swept across the country. To no good outcome, the masses clamored for war. Cowed by the death of 3000 people in such a spectacular way, the masses were scared shitless. Nothing could have led to a faster move to total compliance than what happened on that day.

Think about it. The country fell in line willingly behind a man so minimally qualified to be president that he will surely be recorded in history as the Worst President Ever.

The war led to a massive redistribution of wealth, initially by way of the MIC, and then by way of any other smart company that wanted to capitalize on governmental disarray and a cowering populace.

Along with the wealth transfer came a growing need to control the population, should the worst happen and they begin to realize how badly they've been had.

In their infinite wisdom, they create a federal agency - the biggest in our history - armed to the teeth and massed against . . . . . who? . . . . against *us*.

The words "for your protection" prove to be the most Orwellian reality thus far.

Our Democracy is now much the same as many of us remember it . . . . in high school. We get to elect the class president, but the principal and the school board still control us.

So sure, let's all just accept the fusillade of impolitic insults rained upon us little people.





U*S*A U*S*A U*S*A U*S*A T*S*A T*S*A T*S*A . . . . . .

[msongs]

1. meanwhile in USA 400K people die from use of cifarettes every year nt

[n2doc]

5. 42,116 killed in auto crashes in 2001 alone

There are lots of ways people die. Why is it that we let the threat of terrorism rule our lives? If we did the same with cars as we have done with airport security, everyone would have a mandated 15 MPH speed limit with completely air-bag surrounded passenger compartments and constant video monitoring of our driving.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Car crashes stimulate the economy

Since we now own a car company, it is simply good business.

"Wreck 'em, boys!"

[barbtries]

58. not only that,

but we'd have to be put in our cars every day kicking and screaming from the terror. i've been thinking about this so much lately. it is much more likely that we will be killed on the road.

i think as a people we are perverse. not counting me of course. :)

[Major Hogwash]

14. That's not exactly true. We don't smoke cifarettes.

We smoke cifars.

[cleanhippie]

24. Drive by posting fail.

[Zoeisright]

42. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[gateley]

2. I couldn't agree more. My brother once heard some of the MIHOP/LIHOP arguments

and asked me if I believed them. I said I personally didn't, but I DID believe that Cheney, et al, gleefully saw the "opportunity" they'd been given and ran with it. Big time. Whatever they wanted to do, they only had to point to 9/11.

Love your new chant. :scared:

[SpiralHawk]

4. "Sneer." - xVP Dickie 'Five-Military-Deferments' Cheney (R)

[Stinky The Clown]

6. The chant seems appropriate since most of our population - including many here on DU - are . . . .

. . . . okay getting their genitalia groped in return for the privilege of using public transportation.

People who are so scared as to find this acceptable don't deserve anything more than they're now getting.

[gateley]

9. Getting groped for the privilege of using transportation we PAID probably hundreds

of dollars for. Fucking crazy.

[SpiralHawk]

3. "Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)

[BridgeTheGap]

11. Smirking, in deed.

"Well Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower--the TV. was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a terrible accident.’” George W. Bush - Town Meeting in Orlando, Florida 12/4/01

Repeated almost verbatim one month later in California. Choked on a pretzel a few days after that.

[SpiralHawk]

12. Wow - that is a Stunningly Archetypal Correspondence

I had forgotten that George AWOL Bush's infamous 'pretzel choking' incident came right after he told the whoppers about 9/11. Coincidence? There are no coincidences.

Sort of like the collapse of New Hampshire's Old Man of the Mountain just hours after AWOL Bush pranced on the deck of the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln to disgracefully lie yet again and proclaim "Mission Accomplished."

Ptooooey on the whole vast vat of Republion lies...

[KansDem]

13. This always amazed me...

'There's one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a terrible accident.’

Even if it were an accident, wouldn't the POTUS want to address the nation immediately...to comfort a nation who lost thousands in a horrific accident? Perhaps to assure that he would immediately alert federal emergency agencies to assist in the aftermath?

Even if he didn't know the total killed, one would suppose it would be a great many when an airliner crashes into a tall building.

Yet, he callously shrugs it off to do his photo-op...

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Check the timeline on those comments vis a vis the actual events.

He was lying. He never saw the planes hit. He was sitting there reading Pet Goat.

[BridgeTheGap]

16. The first plane hit before he went into the classroom...which begs the question

how could he have seen the first plane hit the WTC? If he had said this once, it could easily be written off as just another "bushism." And you can bet his handlers told him to stop saying things that could get him (or others) implicated. But he said it again. Why?

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Yup. He did.

I don't know why, except that he was overwhelmed by fear or his own inadequacies . . . . plus adrenalin. He was, literally, out of control.

I don't buy the conspiracy thing nearly as much as I think he really IS the tiny little person we think he is.

[Raster]

23. I believe that Bush* was *almost* in the dark as much as the rest of us...

...his handlers had alerted him that something big was coming. But as to the what, where and when? No way. The National Village Idiot was not trusted with the details.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I'd agree with that.

He wasn't trusted with details.

Neither was that other dim bulb, St Ronald.

[TheUnspeakable]

47. What has NEVER made sense is..

Andy Card tells him "The nation is under attack" and he just kind of nods his head and asks no questions-we live in a nuclear age-what kind of attack? where? how could the POTUS just sit there
and do nothing? HOW COULD EVERYONE JUST ACCEPT THAT?? IT'S INSANE!

[Enthusiast]

52. He had foreknowledge (limited).

They all knew it was coming. They had Georgie safely out of the way so he couldn't somehow mess things up.

[Enthusiast]

51. I agree. He couldn't

be trusted with the details. Those surrounding him were working full time to keep him from saying the wrong thing.

[WinkyDink]

27. Some might say he saw it on closed-circuit TV. He certainly was unflustered when Card

spoke to him.

And curious how that camera work shows zero shaking or wavering.

[Raster]

30. *IF* Bush* did see the first jet hit the first tower on CCT, how did the persons aiming the CCT...

...camera *KNOW* that: (a) the jet was indeed hijacked; and (b) the intended target was the World Trade Center Towers? Just lucky? Kind of like those *alleged* MOSSAD agents who set up cameras over in New Jersey BEFORE the first jet hit the first tower.

And before the "you are an anti-Semite" crowd shows up, I am NOT saying Israel had anything to do with 9/11. In fact, it was Israel's MOSSAD which had issued several warnings to cheney*/bush* about Al Que-da planning on using hijacked jets to hit the twin towers. What I am saying is that among some of the world's intelligence agencies, the actions and events of 9/11 were not a surprise nor unexpected.

[reggie the dog]

35. he saw the video his homies recorded when the plane hit

you know, people sometimes love to record the crimes they do, anyway his homies sent him the video as an mms message on his cell phone.....so he saw the first plane hit

[MissDeeds]

41. And Poppy Bush can't recall where he was

when JFK was assassinated. There seems to be a trend here. Two of the most horrific, momentous events in recent history, and both Bushes have murky recollections of them.

:eyes:

[Raster]

22. Contrary to the pResident's statement: the first jet crashing was NOT televised.

Bush* was aware of the first jet crashing into the first tower BEFORE he entered that classroom. When Andrew Card whispered into Bush*'s ear during My Pet Goat, it was about the second tower and jet.

[BridgeTheGap]

33. Unless there was closed circuit video cam trained on the WTC and piped to the limo

via satelite as it was on the way to the school. I know, take out the tin foil hats BUT Bush did say in public two different times that he saw the first plane hit the WTC. As I stated before, if he had said it once, write it off as a Bushism. But he said it twice. WHY?

I was alerted to this story by Greg Palast, who was in Orlando when Bush first said he saw the first plane hit the WTC. Palast saw it on CNN while sitting at a bar in the airport. He says he literally spit a mouthful of beer onto the bar when heard Bush saying it, thinking Bush had just implicated himself. Palast said that he fully expected the press to question Bush on this version of events and was surprised that it wasn't brought up either time.

The first mention in the press that I saw was an op-ed by Frank Rich in the NY Times (2004?), stating that Bush had lied as there was no way for him to have seen the first plane hit the WTC (see above).

So, no, Bush wasn't in on the details of 9/11, but he could have been shown what was happening before going into the school. Of course that scenario indicates that people in his administration knew what was going down. While Bush wanted war, I think it may have bothered him that it appeared to have been a set up. His way of saying "f you" to the perps could have been to make this public prounouncement of seeing the first plane hit the WTC.

[Raster]

34. IMHO cheney* knew FAR MORE about 9/11 than did those actually hijacking the planes.

[BridgeTheGap]

46. I would love to hear (honestly translated) the cockpit recordings from that day. If memory serves,

they did let some of the 9/11 families listen, but I believe they were listening to arabic and then it was translated for them?

Not sure on the cell phone/video live capabilities in 2001, but the point is someone knew what was getting ready to go down. I don't recall what kind of media attention was given to the hi-jackings before the first plane hit the wtc.

Interesting that the 9/11 commission itself says they know they were lied to during the hearings and that there are still many unanswered questions.

And, who exactly, was held accountable for the obvious failures that day? No one that I know of.

[reggie the dog]

36. cell phone cameras

everyone has them today and can send video messages in a second, what makes you think that the president and his homies didnt have those kind of phones in 2001?

[Raster]

37. very possible, yet still raises the question of how did they know when to point their...

...personal cameras at the precise targets at the precise time?

[reggie the dog]

40. perhaps they were in on it?

perhaps they listened to mossad and the other intellegence agencies around the world who warned them. they either organized it or let it happen so they could benefit from it. it is plain to see.

[NNN0LHI]

8. For the record I was never part of the masses that clamored for war

Problem is those masses that clamored for war fucked all of us.

Don

[TBF]

48. Bush Cheney et all were the only ones clamoring for war - and it took

them 18 months to do it. "The masses" were not clamoring for war - we didn't know what had hit us (though some of us have pretty much figured out it was fascism hitting).

[drm604]

10. A big K&R

I wonder how many people are opting out of flying altogether because of the current TSA procedures? And I wonder how many more highway deaths will occur because of it? Add to that that there are legitimate scientific questions about safety of the scanners. Statements about the how the level of radiation is a fraction of what you receive during your flight are disingenuous at best. They ignore issues like the type of radiation and the way it's delivered.

They're putting children in these things.

Are these procedures really lowering the death rate? I don't think that we know the answer to that for sure. I also don't think that lowering the death rate is the point of the whole process. The point is lowering the rate of high-profile-all-at-once deaths that consume the news cycle for weeks. Even if the yearly death rate is increased (through auto accidents and cancers) that doesn't matter because none of those are on CNN, MSNBC, or Fox.

[NightWatcher]

18. it worked out great....for the military industrial complex

I wish someone could find out how much money we've spent "fighting terror" since that date and who has benefited the most from it. I'm sure it'd show people like James A Baker III and his ilk who were clamoring for same said "Pearl Harbor-like event" with the rest of their PNAC clan.

So yes, it did work out great for them.

[Raster]

25. "worked out great..."? Are you kidding, 9/11 was THE seminal event that allowed all of their plans.

...to move forward at full speed. 9/11 was the linchpin that allowed so many actions and plans of the MIC, the Pentagon and the secret "black" government to fall into place and in such a "timely" fashion. It's almost as if it were planned that way.

[Desertrose]

28. Heh heh....almost as if it were planned that way.

Good one...like they would ever do something like that.

(Where is the sarcasm font when you need it?)

[Radical Activist]

19. Things need to get worse before they get better!

Oh wait...calamitous events can just as easily be used by right wingers. I guess it really does make a huge fucking difference who we elect President.

[NashVegas]

20. "I Don't Care About My 'Rights.' I Don't Want to Die in an Airplane"

As seen on Facebook.

[sabrina 1]

21. 440,000 Americans died since 9/11, from lack of health care.

Deaths that could easily have been prevented. Does anyone still believe we are safe under the protection of this government?

We only had to watch, helplessly, as the very same gang jabbering about 'terror' and 'national security' allowed more U.S. to drown for five days and lost a whole city without any help from outside.

Anyone who supports the WOT is a fool. There is no other way to say it.

[TBF]

49. But those are the poor, lazy folks who don't count.

:sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

55. Why the sarcasm thingie?

[TBF]

57. Because poor people are not lazy. Why am I explaining this on a democratic website. nt

[Enthusiast]

59. I just meant

when the RW says it they don't mean it as sarcasm. That's all.

[Enthusiast]

54. Just wait until the

Catfood Commission gets done with Medicare. Die quickly!

[Skidmore]

29. Stinky, 9/11 wouldn't have happened if all our

oil weren't under their sand. It's not as simple as a PR exercise.

[Greyhound]

31. That was the spark, but the bomb had been carefully constructed for years before,

and was waiting for something, anything to trigger it.

There are still more bombs waiting and there are potential sparks all over the nation and the world.

They're not done yet.
:kick: & R

[Enthusiast]

56. "They're not done yet."

We are right in the middle of 'it'.

[laughingliberal]

32. "We get to elect the class president, but the principal and the school board still control us."

Great analogy!

K&R

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

38. I move that the word .....

"United" be dropped from our title.

"States of America"

In nobodies dreams are we united.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. I think a LOT of bad things were given justification by 9-11. But you haven't listed most of them.

I would say, FISA, the Patriot Act, the increasing irrelevance of the 4th Amendment (started and continually eroded, far more than under the WOT, by the "Drug War")...


but let's take a step back, shall we?

The "country united" under Bush? Maybe for a month. He squeaked by in 2004, only slightly better than he did in 2000. And he lost, that time.

While undoubtedly the WOT gave a new lease on the federal pocketbook to the M/I complex, finally putting to rest all that scary talk of "peace dividends" that started in 1989-- 9/11 was not, in and of itself, responsible for any mass redistribution of wealth. The gap between the rich & poor started growing in the 80s, and never stopped. It wasn't 9/11 that started it, it was Reagan.

What this is really about, I guess, is the TSA and the nudie scanners and other security at airports. Clearly, there is room for debate between how safe this shit actually makes us (not much, I suspect) and what are the risks, beyond 60 million overweight Americans being forced to consider what they would look like nude on a little tv screen. Personally, the idea of getting an additional unnecessary dose of radiation bugs me far more than the idea of someone seeing me naked.

I think the real problem isn't that the TSA is some kind of orwellian spooky uber-agency, it's that the "airport security" is mostly for show, or to maybe catch the person flying with a bag of weed in their carry on. Hardly worth the expense and pain in the ass.

[Ghost Dog]

45. Yes, the Patriot Act which was already prepared,

just awaiting signature.

[Michigan-Arizona]

43. K&R n/t

[MadMaddie]

44. V-Vendetta

If you haven't seen it you should.

I have to agree with you Stinky but you have to add in the previous 30 years of attack from the right on re-writing history, dumbing down the populace and screaming fear at the top of the lungs and murdering/assasinating anyone who stands in their way.
-Blacks
-Gays
-Liberals
-Atheist
-Dr. Tiller (Deceased, Assasainated)
-Drown Government in a tea cup/bathtub
-Empowered Women
-Former Military outspoken against illegal wars
-The list goes on....

Now Corporations practically own the 5 Republican justices on the Supreme Court.

It's not over but it's going to be hard to overcome the bullshit.

[Enthusiast]

50. K&R...nt

[madinmaryland]

53. It worked out real well for Mr. "Noun, verb, and 9/11".