There is only one political Party in America....

[kentuck]

...and it is not the Democratic or the Republican Party. It is the Big Business Party.

It is composed of big bankers, insurance companies, and multi-national corporations.

Voters live in a fantasy world. They believe they can go to the polls and vote for their favorite Democrat and everything will change. Most Republicans believe likewise.

But nothing changes if the Big Business Party does not want it to change. It has not always been this way, although they have always had an inordinate amount of control over our government.

However, today, they have gained complete and total control over both political Parties. They are nothing less than an arrogant and greedy dictatorship.

So you thought we lived in a democracy. You do not. It doesn't matter what you think or how you vote. Those in power will do whatever they want to do and those peons we call Congressmen and Senators will do their bidding.

We have lost the America that we once had. Big Business tells the political Republicans what they want and the Republicans tell the corporate Democrats to get in line and the few naysayers are left mumbling on the sidelines. The corporate media, between episodes of Dancing with the Stars, tell us that the people want "bi-partisanship".

In the meantime, the Big Business Party is choking America to death. As we gasp for air, the so-called political Parties, Democrats and Republicans, pretend to debate the issues.

[Tippy]

1. K&R......Yes they are choaking

America to death...Just call us a Plutocracy instead of a Democracy...If people don't wake up soon, and the clock is ticking faster then it ever has before....

[RadiationTherapy]

2. It's absolute madness. Supported by those who believe their piece of the pie is coming.

Even those who make 250k to 1M per year are guppies. They may be "happy", but they have no concept of the true wealth concentration in this country. Only the wealthy can even run for office. I can't even fathom running for public office because how would I work? Pay my bills? What would I return to if I lost the campaign?

[Eric Condon]

56. I've said before that this is the biggest problem in the country today

the fact that someone making $100K a year will identify more with a millionaire than with someone making $30K, despite the fact that in the grand scheme of things, they're more or less the same. One finds it easier to pay their mortgage, but they're still sniveling insects in the view of our corporate masters. But thanks to having bullshit "American Dream" rhetoric shoved down our throats our whole lives, everyone thinks they're one lottery ticket away from easy street, at which point they won't have to care about their fellow peons, whom they'll view as "whiny" and "lazy" because they didn't "work hard enough" for what they "earn."

[femrap]

173. Agreed.....

plus we now have the 'Prosperity Churches.' Jesus only likes the rich...and if you're poor, you don't deserve his care. Sickening.

And these churches, IMHO, fall under 'Big Biz.' They're just another way to manipulate and control society.

[liberalmike27]

188. About Churches

I'm not sure about other places, but on the outskirts of town there is massive building of these mega-church compounds here in Mobile, and likely in Alabama. Someone is spending a fortune on this stuff, keeping people duped up with injections of religion.

As far as churches go, it's all fine and good to help the poor once and a while by passing out some old clothes or meals, but the leaders of these churches have sold out to wealth just like everyone else, as the rich leave much more in the collection plates, thus it is good business for them to court the rich, and support republicans.

I suspect this is yet another prong of a many fingered republican *ss-f*cking, education, media, republican party, democratic party, they own it all now.

[femrap]

190. Religion makes it so

easy for the sheeple....they no longer have to think/analyze/ponder/wonder....see any grey areas.

As the bumper sticker says: God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

[CrispyQ]

63. A favorite quote:

"Wealth is passed down from generation to generation, you can't get rid of wealth. Rich is some shit you can loose with a crazy summer and a drug habit." ~Chris Rock

I once knew a guy who won the lottery. 1.5 million dollars. When I met him, it was 6 years after his winning & he was working for $8 an hour because he blew his entire winnings. The only thing he had left was a nice car. He was one of the saddest men I've ever known.

[Hestia]

64. Love Chris Rock - I like what else he says about wealth:

Shaq is rich the man who cuts his check is wealthy.

[madmax]

109. Have heard that kind of story several times

:wtf: do they do with the money? :eyes:

[YOY]

184. You know everything you've ever wanted to do or have?

Imagine throwing off the reins and forgetting control.

[DemReadingDU]

3. and lobbyists

[L0oniX]

4. Rich machiavellian sociopath corporatist's have destroyed the USA.

[Shrader]

40. OT Your little bug got me!

I kept trying to wipe it off my screen. Good one.

[ChiciB1]

81. Got Me Quite A While Back, Unless It Was Another Person Using The Same BUG!

It looks so real and I did the same thing, kind of like as gnat!

Now, addressing the post... unfortunately it IS the truth. I await with baited breath to SEE what's going to happen with the tax cuts. Trying to read the "leaves" in the cup I'm NOT getting "good vibes" and this fact alone is so very telling. Letting the tax breaks for the rich stay in place will rest FIRMLY on the shoulders of OBAMA! Hearing him speak has made me fearful when I heard him say "I don't want the tax cuts to remain "permanent" and I thought to myself... WHOA! Simply the way he said he didn't want to remain permanent IS NOT saying "I stand firmly behind the belief that the taxes need to expire!"

WHY he can't go there is beyond reasoning to me, so therefore it seems he isn't for fighting the Repukes on this issue. If I were a praying person I would pray that it isn't so, but all I can do is sit back and WAIT to see if the ball is going to drop!

And frankly, I'm sick, tired and FED UP with this type of wishy-washy reasoning that I'm feeling. There's another thread going on here about someone losing "faith" in our government and that Obama will be a one-termer because of his speech today. Replies are being made that this has gone on forever, and some of it's true. The difference for me is this, back when I was a true blue feisty activist during Viet Nam, "we the people" rose up and at least TRIED to make a difference. The same thing happened way back when they had the Robber Barons and the people ROSE UP!

For sure, fighting the underhanded CORPORATE thieves is a MASSIVE undertaking, perhaps more so than ever, but we as Americans can't seem to find a way to FIGHT back in a meaningful way. But even to those of the past, their road was a long up hill fight. We crab a lot, scream and holler at the tee-vee, blog ourselves into oblivion, but we aren't getting ANYWHERE!

HOW can we stop this rape? Surely, there must be a way. Protests have been NIXED, writing is worthless, petitions go nowhere, phone calls to our Representatives do NOTHING, so what CAN we do?

We MUST find some way, we really must or we are toast. I don't have clout, and some heavyweights come out from time to time and stand tall, then we cheer them on and say Whoopee, only to have it fade away. What is so sorely needed is ACTION and some hardcore leaders! As a Boomer, so many have made it clear that WE ARE THE LOSERS, out way is outdated and WRONG! And yet I see little action from those who came after us actually mobilizing to raise their voices! APATHY prevails as we sit at our PC's pouring our hearts out about THE PROBLEMS!

I know there are many intelligent activists out there, who are much more youthful and have energy to burn and very probably have creativity that is untapped. I will join and help, but we NEED innovation and leadership... WHERE IS IT? I've tried to organize people and have fallen flat on my face. Very few people are willing to give enough time to keep involved one on one. I have no answers, but I'm sure as hell WILLING and READY to listen. Build it and I will be there!

[nannah]

111. +10 so true

despite correct and useful ideas and proposals being put forward by many, how these acute perceptions and suggestions become twisted into the mind numbing stupidity expressed by spokespersons it incomprehensible to me. it isn't that there aren't smart and useful proposals; it is that they never see the light of day.

[nannah]

112. +10 so true

despite correct and useful ideas and proposals being put forward by many, how these acute perceptions and suggestions become twisted into the mind numbing stupidity expressed by spokespersons it incomprehensible to me. it isn't that there aren't smart and useful proposals; it is that they never see the light of day.

[ChiciB1]

120. FWIW, We Don't Really Have Much Choice Left. Time I Slipping Away AND

I feel I'm being pushed aside, forgotten in many ways as an American citizen. Other countries must be wondering WHY we sit by a let this happen. Honestly, I don't know why it's gotten this bad and still we walk around in a daze.

Great Nations DO DIE... need I say ROME?? Some may think that's far fetched, but I've thought about this so many times. While we fight wars for THE DEMOCRACY of other nations, this one seems to be falling to pieces.

Are we ever going to FINALLY wake up and actually get it together again. It's more than sad that it may well be that the people are going to HAVE to do this alone. We are going to have to take charge of our own destiny? Is it already TOO LATE??

They say "it's never too late" but cliches are so very easy, the hard part is to use the cliches and get to work.

[Amonester]

139. I said it before, and I will say it again: The Only Way

for that rape can (have a slight chance to) be stopped, even if it's a 'risky' one, is:

A nationwide HUNGER STRIKE of AT LEAST 75 percent of the people ALL AT ONCE.

Although I don't believe it will ever happen, other than that, nothing else will do. A hunger strike ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_strike ) would temporarily HALT the entire U.S. Economy from functioning for a (relatively short) period of maybe 2 to 3 WEEKS max.

After JUST TWO weeks of such a massive, collective "WE're Mad As Hell And WE Won't Take It Anymore" peaceful movement, ALL MEMBERS of the Legislative and Executive Branches would basically be Brought Down On Their Knees, BEGGING the movement to STOP it! And That Would Be the Perfect Moment for the strikers To SET THEIR CONDITIONS STRAIGHT.

Other than that, don't even think about 'changing' anything (other than a few occasional 'crumbs'). Absent such a Nationwide Hunger Strike (or a Natural Disaster in the magnitude of Greenland's melting ice cap sliding off its base and into the ocean), nothing will change significantly enough (and that rape will get WORSE, exponentially).

Two or three weeks MAX: that's ALL it would take. But it won't happen because most people are too comfortable... and 'entertained'.

[TheKentuckian]

159. Whatever the solution, count on it being no more than a 30% one.

I don't care what the plan is, if it depends on a majority or especially a super majority of the population then that answer is incorrect due to having a whelk's chance in a supernova of ever happening and the movement will collapse under the weight of despair.

I also believe you are overestimating our value, they are purposefully winding us down and draining all resources out of the economy. We are on a slow march to a similar draw down at the will of our masters anyway.

You are also employing a passive resistance strategy when you command 75% of the population in your efforts.
That makes no sense, there are no hearts and minds to win. If you have three quarters of the population, you have a seat at the "what is what" table and best be at the head of it.

[ChiciB1]

182. SADLY, I Can't Argue With ANY Of Your Comments! What I See With My

eyes tells me that it's ALL about the RICH and ALL about ENTERTAINMENT! And those who are suffering will suffer even more as we fall further down the "rabbit hole" and join the "mad hatter!"

While I shouldn't say it, but as a Boomer perhaps I won't be around to see the FULL COLLAPSE! But then, at the rate we're going... I think I will!

I've stayed an activist all these years to try to make things better for those that come after me, but now I feel there's almost NOTHING I have to contribute! The problems are growing and the job HAS and IS getting worse as time goes by.

I'm cynical beyond anything I thought possible and even worse yet, much too pessimistic! I HATE feeling this way and I'm sure there are thousands and thousands just like me! I even have to cut back on my time spent here because it's gotten so depressing.
:scared:

[liberalmike27]

189. Are You Kidding?

We all need to lose a few pounds, so that'd just play into their game!! (ha)

Best thing anyone can do is stop buying their stuff, and as best you can, specifically target the worst offenders, like Comcast. Did you hear now they're hitting up Netflix for some cash for downloading, a service they are supposed to be providing through their Internet service? Add to that, buying NBC, which is going to be terrible for the liberal side, as I'm sure with much haste they'll be canning MSNBC's nighttime lineup.

Cancel your health care insurance--if we all didn't have insurance and just showed up at the hospital, eventually something would have to give, and they'd have to pay them directly, or deny care. Either way, it's sure show a problem with our system.

Can your Internet connection, something I want to do, but have not quite been able to pull the trigger on.

Soldiers, don't go back, don't join to fight their illegal wars.

There are many little ways, but not buying their corporate crap is a great one, unless it's made here, so your choices may only be a 787 or a missile, or a tank, since we make scarce little. I guess you can go to your local flea market, as they've got locally made products.

[Capitalocracy]

158. I think a national movement focusing on local elections

and electing honest people with the interests of the people in mind in local races around the country, regardless of whether they're Democrats, Republicans (haha, not likely!) or third party could really get the ball rolling. If we could get in the news showing that we've broken the two-party stranglehold in local politics, a mindshift change might happen on a national level.

That's just one idea. I'm sure others can come up with better ones... but the bottom line is, we need to get creative, and we need to get off our asses.

[kctim]

5. The Bilderbergs?

[Le Taz Hot]

6. K & R

The thing is, We The People do have the solution well within our grasp. I'm in the process of writing a missive about it and I'll post it on DU when I'm done.

[Locrian]

68. I'm interested

Le Taz Hot >> I'd be interested in hearing that. I lost a lot of hope. I personally think that the way the economy works guarantees that this sort of behavior we are seeing. It's part of the design: it was created to concentrate wealth in the investment class. It rewards people who are not productive, and takes from "true" worth.

[w8liftinglady]

7. kentuck,this is an excellent post.

Americans as a whole are being stifled out of their qualities of life,regardless of party affilliation.
Having come from a working-class and military background,I have seen it in my old neighborhoods...and am seeing it in the DFW area.
High rise condos exist where neighborhoods used to be.The poor are becoming the predominant group in the area...as the middle-class dwindles in Ct.,Wi and Texas(my three stomping grounds).people are struggling to keep their heads above water,their kids fed and clothed.private charities are way overwhelmed.


and who in the gov't cares?

I think of a scene in "Oh,Brother-Where Art Thou?" where the local politico denies seeing some of his constituents.."I'm going nationwide,on the radio"
that prevents actually having to view their constituents' suffering,while they reside in their ivory tower(review my representative,Joe Barton,for details)

[Radical Activist]

8. That must be news to all the corporations that just got re-regulated by Obama.

At least you're openly admitting that you're not a Democrat. The pretenders get old.

[kentuck]

10. Believe what you want to believe..

The facts speak for themselves.

[Radical Activist]

11. True.

Wall street reform, regulation of credit cards, lending and bank regulation, EPA regulation, and the push for a climate change bill all speak to the fact that Obama is regulating corporations instead of taking orders from them.

The fact that all of those things were watered down by the Senate means the corporate influence was strongest there. I wonder why.

[kentuck]

12. It reminds me of the Washington Capitols- Harlem Globetrotters game...

They play just well enough to make it look like a game.

[Radical Activist]

15. So when Obama gives passionate speeches

it's nothing but an act? He doesn't believe in anything he spent the last two years pushing for?

That's a little too :tinfoilhat: for me. The simple explanation that Obama fought for more regulation and lost some battles in the Senate makes a lot more sense than the hopelessly cynical version.

[kentuck]

16. I think Obama and all the progressives in Congress believe sincerely...

as do I, but I don't think there is a damn thing they can do about it. It is beyond their and our control, at this time.

[Radical Activist]

100. I really have little interest in dis-empowering ideologies of hopelessness.

That's what I'm seeing from you and it's the kind of cynicism that kills movements.

[KoKo]

137. Authoritarians deciding who are Democrats and who are not worthy of being Democrats

is not welcomed here. In fact, I think it's against the DU rules to insinuate or call out folks for not being Democrats.

In fact, I think your insinuating that fellow Democrats are causing, to quote you: "the kind of cynicism that kills movements" is definitely against the DU rules.

[Radical Activist]

141. Are you going to tattle on me?

Non-Democrats are allowed at DU, so there's nothing wrong with saying a poster isn't one. I don't think calling someone a socialist is an insult. Do you?

Cynicism kills movements. That's my belief. It's important to recognize that reality. My opinion is no more against the rules than campaigning against Obama, which is most certainly allowed at DU.

[KoKo]

203. Ha.....you know you are "skirting rules" and flaunt it........

LOL's ...Yeah...i truly understand how you get away with it.....:-)

[TBF]

65. He's being paid well for his performance. nt

[ThomCat]

50. Good analogy.

:)

[Sparkly]

71. Kinda what I've been thinking, too.

Unfortunately. :(

[ThomCat]

52. That's warped!

To the extent that these regulations were good, you give Obama the credit. The the extent that they are bad, you give the senate all the blame.

:wtf:

Shouldn't the same party get the credit and blame?

If you give the credit to one person and the blame to another, that's admitting that you're just playing politics, dividing merit based on who you like. That's totally corrupt!

Below you claim you aren't a biased Obama supporter, yet here you are blatantly being biased in support of Obama just for the sake of giving him support.

[Radical Activist]

99. My view is based on events.

1) Obama proposes something good and progressive.
2) The Senate blocks it or waters it down.
3) Some things still get passed after compromise.

The same thing happened on issue after issue. It's not that hard to figure out who to blame here. The House did its job. Obama did his job. It was the Senate that fucked up.
I have no problem admitting I like Obama, but these are plain facts about what just happened over and over again for the past two years. Misplacing blame away from the Senate doesn't help advance any progressive issue.

[ProudDad]

148. I'd love to see a list of the substantive "progressive" things

that Obama "proposed"...

It's been my impression that Obama (through his sidekick Rahm) made sure that what was "proposed" was watered down republican stuff from 1980-1995...

By the way, I think I asked you a while back what is your definition of Progressive? What would you consider "Progressive" policies and values to be?

Maybe you're just not good at expressing yourself on this board...

Or maybe...

[ProudDad]

191. ...<Crickets>

[saracat]

146. Amen.

[leeroysphitz]

61. It's sad you have to work so hard to let people know about these wonderful accomplishments.

[davidwparker]

76. I'll give you the pass on the Senate IF there is a change

in leadership when the new Senate commences. If not, just add Congress, which is still a supermajority) to the list of excuses.

[mahina]

78. +1000

[katsy]

172. Credit card regulations?

We once called these thieves out and put them in jail for usury rates on loans. Remember the loan sharks? They were dusted off, put in suits and given an office by CC companies.

25% is now considered regulated? As long as you can read the fine print it's legal and regulated? Regulated crime is what it is.

Those are not regulations. It's just a code of conduct among the thieves. Leveling of the playing field amongst themselves.

And who went to jail for any crimes committed by wall st. tycoons? Anyone responsible for the exotic derivatives? How much are taxpayers are on the hook for and what % of the blame is shouldered by the people who brought this disaster down on us? Why are taxpayers on the hook? Why didn't the banks fail?

India wouldn't allow those crazy derivative trades to be sold in their country because no one understood them. The government there, governed. They regulated. Their economy is well-regulated.

Pushing for climate change is just plain funny. Do you think anyone is going to touch that now?

Put the pom-poms away. We are in less trouble than we could have been had mccain won the presidency. But by no means do we have great and transformational leadership of for or by the people. We just assign the reins of government to a gentle corporatocracy or a viscious one.

[ThomCat]

18. Have you bothered to take a look at those regulations?

They don't even pretend to re-establish the regulations that were removed. They don't even pretend that we have been returned to where we were a few years ago.

No, these supposed re-regulations are simply new, watered now regulations that say that corporations can do whatever they want, as long as they are semi-public about it. They need to reveal what they are doing to some regulatory agency somewhere after they have done whatever they want. That's all.

No restrictions. No prohibitions. Nothing barring them from doing the things that caused all the damage. No locked doors. No guards making sure they don't cause more damage again. They are free to cause all that damage again, just as long as they tell us about it.

We wanted to put Glass-Steagal back into place, but we didn't get it. That would have been real re-regulation. We wanted to have anti-trust regulations enforced, and loop-holed closed, so that the the mega-giant corporations would all have to be broken up again. That would be real re-regulation. But we didn't get that either. We wanted corporations prohibited from interfering with politics, or any area of law or public policy that might affect themselves as a legal conflict of interest. But we also didn't get that.

In fact, we didn't get any of the reforms we wanted. Not one of significant reforms. We got nothing but smoke and sparkles and "mission accomplished" but it was Obama strutting on the deck of carrier this time declaring victory.

[Radical Activist]

20. You really shouldn't believe everything you read on blogs.

There are people who have an agenda to deceptively minimizing everything Obama and Democrats do.

Yes, things were watered down in Congress. We all know that. But your claim that there are NO regulations and that we got nothing we wanted is grossly misleading exaggeration.

Actually, significant parts of Glass-Steagall were restored. The Volcker rule is significant and does put restrictions on banks. And even Nader celebrated the consumer financial protection agency. And you may not think it's significant, but the limits put on fees charged by banks and credit cards will impact millions. Those are reforms a lot of people wanted. Your slogans are false.

[ThomCat]

28. You should follow your own advice,

and not believe everything you read on blogs,

The Volker rule is still vulnerable. The limits put on credit card fees was granted only as a trade, with the allowable interest rate on cards increased, and already the rate on new cards being offered is skyrocketing. The new consumer protection agency is till in the works, and don't think that it won't be opposed every step of the way.

The point still stands, the reforms have not done anything near what people seem to think, and barely enough to be considered reform. It's a classic example of turning a molehill into a mountain.

[Radical Activist]

29. Oh so now the reforms do something,

but not as much as what people think. Well, since people are being mislead about how weak they are, I'd say that the reforms will do MORE than what many progressives think.

The stories I'm reading in reliable sources describe a very different bill than what you believe it is. The existence of the Volcker Rule alone makes your claim that banks are not required to do anything differently 100% inaccurate.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec10/financial_11-23.html

The act gives federal regulators authority to downsize troubled companies, in a bid to solve the problem of too big to fail, establishes federal oversight of derivatives, those bets made on the future price of securities, implements the so-called Volcker rule, designed to force big banks to limit using their own money for speculative deals on their own behalf, sets up a consumer protection agency within the Federal Reserve to regulate mortgages, credit cards and other products, and creates a 10-member oversight council to watch for threats to the broader financial system.

[ThomCat]

35. Regulators Always had the authority to

prevent those banks from merging, and had ways to break them up too. But having that authority and using it are two different things. The volker rule, as written, does not make it mandatory for any large bank to ever be broken up at any time as a response to any abuses. So it is unlikely that any bank will ever be broken up.

You like to claim, often, that your sources are 100% accurate. That's just another way of claiming that you are always right.

Yes, of course other people can't be right about anything if you disagree. You're omniscient. I forgot. :eyes:

[Radical Activist]

101. One reason why we elect

a progressive President like Obama is so that he will appoint people to the boards and commissions who will take more action against corporations than the appointees of previous Presidents. That's how we get these agencies to use their authority.

The Volker rule isn't completely written yet since the details were left up to the bureaucrats. The Feds are taking public comments right now. You should submit one and tell them to make it strong.

[pokercat999]

108. Ok that's it. Spouting the rethug line that Obama is a

progressive is just one step too far. No question about it you are a cool-aid fanatic.

[Radical Activist]

123. So you think recognizing Obama's accomplishments is a Republican line.

What else is backward in Bizarro world?

[pokercat999]

187. No, I think calling Obama a liberal or progressive is a rethug

lie. He is right of center in almost every policy! The rethugs just want to paint the ongoing and upcoming policy failures with "progressive" and "liberal" so the stupid and low/no information average voter will follow them further to the right, if that's even possible.

[slay]

45. You mean how sometimes people who claim to be "radical activists" really aren't?

i've read quite a lot of your posts and you seem to always be backing Obama no matter how badly he's screwing us. less stinky piles of crap are still crap ya know - and that's what Obama's done mostly - made the crap smell a bit better. but it's still crap.

[Radical Activist]

46. You may define someone's politics by whether they hate Obama.

I don't. Mostly I respond to the exaggerations and more ridiculous claims made about Obama. There's nothing progressive or radical about hyperbole.

[KoKo]

138. Well...you called yourself out on that one, for sure....!

lol's

[Radical Activist]

142. I don't hate Obama.

Yes, I called myself out on that. The horror!

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

53. Plus one. nt

[dbmk]

73. I dunno..

Speaking up for Obama on these boards seems rather radical to me these days.

[Lorien]

129. For Obama, or for the Status Quo? nt

[inna]

116. "Your slogans are false." - Pure projection on your part.

[fasttense]

162. And yet we have no jobs...I wonder why? n/t

[Yavin4]

43. The New Regulations = Giving Robbers The Ability To Rob Your House

so long as they leave a note in readable print.

[ThomCat]

47. That's it exactly.

With a promise to maybe add some improvements later, honest, as soon as they can get around to it someday.

[maryf]

82. Great post!nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

93. And the ones with blinders on are laughable. Call me when your

lifestyle is better because of this administration.

[ChiciB1]

183. DING, DING, DING! Plus At Least 1,000! For The People, Life Isn't Even

keeping up with this depression we seem to be experiencing now! Seems to be getting worse as time goes by. Trying to keep my head above water is REAL HARD WORK!

[tnlurker]

95. They sometimes allow us to take a few steps foward

and they we have to take several more backwards.
With Carter, Clinton and Obama we get to take a few steps forward to make it look like we have some say. Then when the Republicans get back in office we take many more steps back (Reagan, Bush I, Bush II) towards complete corporate control.

[Radical Activist]

97. Progress has always come a few steps forward at a time in America.

And there have always been people disappointed at not getting more so they keep fighting for the next step. Unrealistic belittling of progress doesn't help more progress happen.

[KoKo]

143. Actually, the OP and many of us here do know that from past experience.

Of course it's helpful to you to warn those who might not.

[ProudDad]

147. And which corporations would that be?

Not the bankers, for sure...

Not the war profiteers...

NOT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!

The ones shoveling billions of dollars to buy both right-wings of the Corporate War Party?

Which corporations got "reregulated"?

Got any Links?

[tomp]

163. jumping to the defense of the powers that be....

.....yet again.

obama=fail.

[hfojvt]

9. it seems curious to me then

although you cite no particular examples, that the "few naysayers" are very often 70 - 90% of the elected Democrats.

Unfortunately, your thesis here just becomes a reason to not bother voting, particularly not bother voting for the Democrat.

Thus, there's no point in donating, volunteering, or even voting. Since there's really only one party.

Yet it seems to me that I had a choice this fall. There was one candidate who would

1. vote for the Bush tax cuts for the rich
2. vote for even more tax breaks for the rich at every opportunity
3. vote to cut socially beneficial spending on schools and roads
4. vote to cut other popular programs like veteran's benefits, head start, and health care for children
5. vote to increase taxes on low income working people

and the other candidate would have voted the other way on those issues. So there definitely was a choice, at least on those issues, although DU might find some reason to disparage a Congressperson from Kansas, particularly if it was me. Lord knows Boyda got trashed here a few times.

Unfortunately, for a number of reasons, the vast majority of voters in my district voted for a the corporate candidate over the alternative.

But there definitely was an alternative in the 2nd district. Now the 4th district in Kansas it seems to me offered less of an alternative. In that district, the Democratic candidate seemed like more of a corporate candidate. STILL, even there, there were probably some significant differences making Mr. Goyle much better than the volcano. Unfortunately, once again, the vast majority of Kansas voters ...

[raccoon]

13. Well said! nt

[ladjf]

14. I believe that you are describing Fascism. nt

[indepat]

17. One party with two wings: a rabidly far-right wing and a goodly right-of-center wing

;)

[Lorien]

131. Or as I like to call them; the Reagan Republicans and the psychotic RW whackadoodles.

[blindpig]

19. Don't forget the shareholders....

it is all in their name, after all.

[raouldukelives]

22. It would seem

The only vote that counts these days is the ones you make with your money.

[AnArmyVeteran]

21. Nader was right in the 1990s, in 2000 and he's right today.

Both major parties are nothing but whores to their corporate masters. The democratic party is slightly less of a whore, but you know the old line about the definition of a prostitute. The only thing different between the two is the price in which they prostitute themselves for. Without massive changes in our campaign finance system our government will continue to be nothing but a whore house filled with prostitutes of varying shapes and sizes all sleeping with their corporate pimps.

We had a golden opportunity in the past two years to make a lot if great changes, but that time was mostly squandered. We the people don't control this country, the rich and powerful do. And with the Citizens United case things are only going to get worse, much worse.

[felix_numinous]

23. Party politics traps citizens and representatives into a 4 year election cycle

that interrupts focus on these critical national issues, like corporate corruption. This I think is what causes division within our own party, in that we are challenged in how exactly to address these issues of conscience without harming our current standing in the White House or other branches of government. I believe the best strategy is to surgically remove the corruption, if at all possible, without harming what is still working in our system.

Although corporations have influenced both parties, we all know dissent is treated under a Republican administration. Our only chance to be heard is with Democratic representation, corporate or not.

I think the trick is to demand that President Obama deal with corruption, to put enough public pressure on his administration in order to give him a chance to separate himself from it. We have to force his hand, because he has the power to do this, with enough pressure and support. No other Democratic candidates will go up against him in 2012, unless things change dramatically. I think if he finally was persuaded to confront corruption, he could win back his base.

If he refuses or is unable to respond to public pressure, then he will be seen as complicit and part of the problem, and it is up to people to make that distinction loudly and publicly. Then we would be forced to find another candidate for 2012.

We can make corporate corruption--from BP to war profiteering, undermining our elections, privatizing and thus destroying our infrastructure, using religion as a tool to divide and conquer, and corporate propaganda--the unifying issue that we identify as a domestic threat.

I have yet to hear another safe strategy on how to handle corruption and hang onto the WH in 2012. Perhaps another alternative will present itself.

[budkin]

24. Why do you hate America?

[Dappleganger]

25. More and more that is made even clearer...

it's the haves vs. the have-nots.

[Desertrose]

26. Left-right is merely a distraction..its all about up-down...

....or big biz vs the rest of us.

Big biz clearly directs the gov't...people come last and they want us "dead last" it would seem from cutting any help like SS, medicare and the crappy so-called health care they try to sell us (SELL us? WTF?!)

[blindpig]

31. In other words, it's all about class. n/t

[Blecht]

27. You are 100% correct

So why are we all here pounding on our keyboards in a place called Democratic Underground?

[Hydra]

110. To know the truth

During the Bush Admin, most of us knew there was nothing we could do to stop them. We could only watch, see, and understand all of it.

In understanding the problem, solutions arise. In this case, our economy was deliberately crashed. Some of us see a solution in dust-binning Capitalism. It's really a no-brainer...but I'm aware that many people haven't reached the level of discomfort where they are forced to deal with it.

I can wait, if I have to.

[newtothegame]

30. Not true. Obama changed everything in his 'historic' election. nt

[Dogtown]

32. Agreed.

It's over.

[Marr]

33. I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think we're largely to blame.

As a culture, I mean. It's not hard to find countries with representational governments that are actually responsive to the public, and where politicians would never think of selling their loyalties so blatantly as they do here in the states. Different cultures have different personalities, just as individuals do. The US, generally speaking, idolizes wealth, and cares little for public service or cooperation.

There are structural differences in our government from places like Finland, to be sure, but I don't think that alone explains it. Our representatives are basically a reflection of ourselves. And it isn't flattering.

[creon]

169. I agree

This is, basically, a society that does all of that.

The society does not value: the public good, public service, cooperation. This is a every man for himself < root hog; or die> kind of place. There is that in other countries, but not to the extent that we have here.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. It took me awhile but I finally got there.

What you say is the 100% Truth. :(

Now, the only thing left to say is: What are we going to do about it?

The only solution I can think if is to starve the Corporate Beast.

[ProudDad]

150. You are SOOOO Right!

Starve the corporate beast!

:hi: Hell...

Greetings from sub-freezing Arizona! Brrrrrrrrrr!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. But, they allow us to vote for the candidates they choose for us.

And, call it "democracy".

[xiamiam]

88. true...obama showed us within 2 years that fact..its a hard pill to swallow

given what we actually needed to accomplish..nobel peace prize indeed..and no help for homeowners..yet..its worse now than 2 years ago..the next shoe is about to drop..and they dont give a good damn about us..they dont..and anyone who trys to tell me so just has to wait..sooner or later..we will all be affected..including those who think things are just peachy and on track..whoa..

we're in trouble ..the good news is that we have the internet and access to information more quickly..

crucial point right now..we know..they know we know..and what are we gonna do about it?..the ones who own us and want to own our grandchildren as well are betting on absolutely nothing

[Shrader]

37. Sad but true. n/t

[ProfessionalLeftist]

38. They also own the legal system/the judiciary

ie: the Supreme court and most lower courts (including DAs all over the country as well as prosecutors). Many got those seats due to politics and money. They are a putrid combination of lawyers and politicians - and what's just, legal, or moral in most cases is NOT something they're concerned with. Corprat criminals and murderers (or corprat-connected ones, including politicians) walk free and even are rewarded for their crimes. Judicial heads conveniently turn the other way when it comes to their atrocities -- while the innocent and other criminals are impuned. Not always, but too often - and much more often than in the past, I personally believe.

So, in addition to owning and controlling the government and the media, they also own and control our legal system (in large part), which thus allows them to continue pillaging, raping, and destroying this (or any) country for their own benefit - with utter impunity. Think: George bu$h or; Wall St. or; Citizens United. The worst and most psychopathic liars, criminals, murderers, and robber barons are all borne from and enabled by corprat AmeriKKKa and the gov't and legal system that represents and protects them - and by the sheeple who swallow the corprat propaganda wholesale like Monika you-know-who, then stupidly vote accordingly so it can continue as is.

What a country. :nuke:

[GliderGuider]

39. Under Communism the government owns the corporations.

Under fascism the corporations own the government.

Nuff said.

[glitch]

86. The plutarchs own both which makes that a distinction without much difference. nt

[Yavin4]

41. You're 100% Correct, But The Big Business Party Is Making A Fatal Mistake

Capitalism survived the boom and bust cycles that came at the start of the industrial revolution because we adopted FDR style socialism. Simply put, FDR style socialism just gave the little guy a stake in the economy. Measures such as SS, unemployment benefits, giving unions the right to organize, medicare, the GI bill, access to higher education through pell grants, etc. All of these measures took the edges off of capitalism, and let the populace believe that if they worked within the system and played by the rules, their economic well-being would be taken care of. No more boom and bust cycles.

Since Reagan and the re-birth of government controlled by Big Corporate, the little guy has lost their stake in the system. Their retirements have been squandered, healthcare is out of reach, their home valuations have plummeted, their careers have been outsourced to cheaper labor markets, etc. The little guy has been economically dis-enfranchised.

Without a stake in the system, the little guy won't stand still forever. At some point, the right wing rhetoric won't match the reality of every day life, and the little guy will rebel against corporate power.

[Greyhound]

42. I think Stinky's analogy is nearly perfect.

American politics is like the high school student body elections. No matter who wins, the Principal and administration have all the power and are always in charge.

"America has one political party with two right wings" - Gore Vidal

[Hydra]

113. +1000 for Stinky

The 2008 Election cycle really did feel more like a popularity contest than a gathering of Adults.

[tomp]

164. agree with stinky's analogy as well. nt

[slay]

44. The sooner people realize you are correct,

the quicker we can start to try and fix things. if people ever do. and if it's not too late. Excellent post - K&R!

[Horse with no Name]

48. Cleverly disguised fascism. n/t

[tomp]

165. yes, the powers that be are very intelligent.

but the brown shirts are on the way, because eventually that is all they have: force.

[progressoid]

51. Add the military-industrial-complex to that list.

It's beyond frustrating that this is considered Democracy.

[ramapo]

54. Amen

Few realize that we are governed by corporacrats and criminals. Maybe one in the same?

[EstimatedProphet]

55. Then why keep going?

If what you're saying is that Big Business has won (and I'm not saying I disagree) and the game is over, then why keep going at all? There's no longer any point, if that's the case.

[ProudDad]

151. First, you recognize the truth

then you figure out where their power lies and where they are powerless...

In this case, we can deny the corporations most of our dollars...

And we can realize that the "system" that supports them is disintegrating as we speak...

Unlike the 1930s, the Earth is now being over-exploited by the corpos...There are not enough available resources or energy sources to maintain the fiction of an infinite growth system on a finite planet...

But we must be quick because they are destroying our home, our habitat in their race for the short-term profit...

[Jakes Progress]

57. Yep. Only one party and they are not bright.

They are greedy. They are effective. But they are so stupid that they believe they can remain in their positions after they have choked their source of power. As the middle class dies and the economy grinds to a halt, two things will happen. They will have less for themselves and their children, and the revolution will come. These idiots don't believe history apples to them. We are surely falling into a period that will foment revolution. What was the term during the '60s? Up against the wall? I'm afraid that is coming.

[TatonkaJames]

58. No one listended to George Carlin

When he told us this years ago and no one seems to want to listen now.
We have been conditioned to accept everything they throw at us and it
doesn't get anyone angry until it hits home, like being groped at the
airport or being locked out of your house by an incompetent bank employee
who is told to sign and process as many possible each day, and they do for fear of
losing their job in this feeble economy.
I watch in other countries as the public demonstrates while here in the good
old USA we sit in front of our wide screen TV's and complain about it.
We have the voting power but we seem to vote the same garbage in and out and for
the most part that is the extent of our involvement in fixing our problems here at home.
Seems like the dumbing down of America has been accomplished for the most part.

[xiamiam]

89. its the tv..every aspect of it..from news to sports and everything in between

sorry..it just is..thats the way we've been herded..that is how its been done..and its been so effective..it will just go on until we shut down our tvs

[Lorien]

132. Or reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. But DUers seem to think that's "crazy talk"

because Rush Limbaugh told them it would curb free speech. :eyes:

[Spiderzumbie]

59. I'm preparing.

When we look around and see that we have to pay for "sunshine insurance" to go outside, the common man will realize his mistake.

And I, like many others, will stand up to correct this mistake.

[Swampguana]

60. Yes it sucks

Can anything be done?

[Harry Monroe]

209. It may take a revolution of the middle class

Don't see any other way.

[Zoeisright]

62. Wrong. And as members of my family and I can attest,

President Obama refunding stem cell research could make a huge difference in our lives.

[NorthCarolina]

66. Great post. Folks here squabbling about whether Obama is a Progressive or not

is just the type of sideshow they want. Well folks, the answer is Obama is NOT a Progressive. He shares the same political interests as the rest of the Wall St. owned DC crowd. Another news flash, the American public is far more Liberal than the MSM or anyone in DC (few excepted) would ever want you to be aware of. They couldn't get their work for the fat cats done if they couldn't operate under a disguise of populism. It's just a false mask for public consumption though. America, you are about to be bled dry, squeezed until there's nothing left to squeeze out, and then tossed to the curb as little more than a decaying remnant of the America dream. Health insurance? Pay the price or go without, no matter, your 'well being' is of little consequence. Social Security? Well, we all have to make sacrifices now don't we, as Sen Graham has scolded. No health insurance, no safety net for the elderly, no savings, no pension....apparently that is the New American Dream.

[Amonester]

145. And, don't forget, no abortions too, no matter what.

And from the moment the babies start breathing, They Don't Care If They Get No Health CARE, then No Education, No Safety Nets, No Savings, No Homes, or No Jobs:

THEY.DON'T.CARE.

Jayzzusss.

[MilesColtrane]

67. So, you're advice would be to move out of the country or kill ourselves?

[Chulanowa]

69. DON"T VOTE OR IF YOU DO VOTE NADER THE PARTIES ARE THE SAME!!!

Discourage the left and the right wins elections. Good strategy, Kentuck. Nice to see you're getting a head start on 2012.

[BlueJac]

70. One hugh rec!!

the absolute truth, change we can be deceived by!

Pretend is the key word here.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

74. And they maintain power through Wall Street and War.

Works wonders for the effective concentration of power and profit into one convenient location: Theirs.

Did I ever tell you that I have nothing against the Have-Mores, per se? It's just when they buy all the power they can afford, that doesn't leave any power for the rest of us.

A quadrillion thanks for your outstanding OP and thread, kentuck. I also remember FDR and JFK and the idea that the United States of America was more than what it cost to buy and offshore.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

75. K&R

[mahina]

77. Not here.

We have Democrats who stand up, and we just elected a real people's governor. The Big Business party won't know what hit them, believe me.

I do agree that big money buys our elections, and if we want to reclaim our democracy, we'd better hustle up and change the way we fund elections, yesterday.

[sam sarrha]

79. top 1% holds 42% of financial wealth, 6 Times that of the bottom 80% who hold only 7%.....>>Link>>>

top 1% holds 42% of financial wealth, 6 Times that of the bottom 80% who hold only 7%.....>>Link>>>
Edited on Sun Nov-28-10 08:01 PM by sam sarrha
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth ....

top 1% holds 42% of financial wealth, 6 Times that of the bottom 80% who hold only 7% of financial wealth, so the top 20% holds 93%.. of all the Financial wealth of America..Buffet only pays 14% income tax, Gates pays what a family making $80,000 does. many pay nothing. and the Bu$h43 tax cut subdsides the tichest people in the world to an extra $4 TRILLION DOLLARS,every 10 years..1/2 THE DEBT ..and only benefits the top 2.5% richest not mom & pop.

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-101.as ...
"...20% or more of the child population in 16 states and D.C. are living in food insecure households. The states of Arkansas (24.4 percent) and Texas (24.3 percent) have the highest rates of children in households without consistent access to food. (Cook, John, Child Food Insecurity in the United States: 2006-2008. iii..."

the Psychotic Obsessive Compulsive Hording of wealth in this country should be declared a threat to National Security.

all speculation on Strategic commodities, food, fuel, health care, etc should be forbidden.

all windfall profits in the stock market should be taxed, just like the under classes winning the lottery.. immediately and no deductions

[maryf]

83. good resources...

thanks!

[rug]

80. Those that control the means of production control the means of governance.

[Dragonfli]

84. True, but what does one do when the means of production are located in China? An important question

[rug]

87. It's the capital that controls the means of production.

The stuff can be made in Burma or Eritrea and they'll still control it. Money ignores boundaries and is loyal to no land.

[Dj13Francis]

85. Fuck em

Join the Greens! I did. Only place left for true progressives.

[riverbendviewgal]

90. You are so right

K&R

[TBF]

91. Michael Collins refers to it as the "money party" -

which pretty much sums it up.

http://www.opednews.com/author/author3863.html

[democrank]

92. It`s the C-H-A-N-G-E.

To some folks,change means change. To others, change means new laws with bigger loopholes or old wars wars with new soldiers. To some, change means arrest George Bush for war crimes. To others, change means don`t make waves.

[sarcasmo]

94. Corporate America Party and we the people aren't welcome.

[FailureToCommunicate]

96. With Citizens United SC decision now it will always be so...

But I believe Republicans = Big Business Party. Many Dems too. It's because getting elected costs so much. Staying elected costs so much. And with Citizens United it's all gotten worse.
Woe to America.

[harun]

106. I think at minimum it will take a generation to fix and that is only if people

are united and paying attention. If not they will not get their country back, ever.

[myrna minx]

98. K&R n.t

[Gold Metal Flake]

102. Hope And Chains.

[Kermitt Gribble]

103. Excellent post, kentuck! K&R n/t

[paparush]

104. George Carlin on the American Dream (tm)

"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you . . . they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”

http://www.alternativereel.com/includes/top-ten/display_review.php?id=00106

[Vinnie From Indy]

149. +1000

GC was a prophet!

[harun]

105. Nader was ahead of his time on this. We live in a Coporate Representative Republic and

both parties serve the same master.

[AnArmyVeteran]

118. Gore should have urged his supporters to vote for Nader.

Especially since Gore had no intention of debating Bush or attacking Bush's record. Nader would have destroyed Bush if he was 'allowed' to debate. But both Bush, Gore and their corporate masters were terrified of Nader, and the message Nader would have brought to the people. Bush & Gore were owned by virtually the same corrupt corporations. Nader wasn't owned by anyone. But the American voters aren't the brightest bulbs on our planet. They would rather keep voting the same way EVERY election and expecting different results, a definition of insanity.

God help save this country from the almost absolute ignorance of the electorate.

[pokercat999]

107. But the result in America won't be the guillotine. They will be

drug outside and after a double tap behind the ear, their bodies will be left for their relatives or stray dogs. Here's the thing you have to know....they can't live without us, but we can live even better without them.

[David Zephyr]

114. K&R #234!

This is the Kentuck I love! :kick:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

115. in the next election we will electing corporations instead of political parties

can you imagine BP winning the seat in NH or Goldman Sachs winning California. The only difference that they are in disguise at the moment.

[KoKo]

117. You have so many "Rec's" that it seems you've struck GOLD!

That's Interesting..........and probably a good thing!

:hug:

[DeSwiss]

119. K&R

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." ~ Emma Goldman

[DeadEyeDyck]

121. Our love hate relationship with big business

How many here are using a computer with the Windows operating system?
How many here google?
How many drink coffee from Starbucks?
How many drive cars they did not build themselves?

Purchase is the ultimate form of approval. I can state I hate Microsoft but if I am writing this on a computer running Windows...

[ProudDad]

153. If you're telling the truth

then you're using their own weapons against them...

Especially if you have a pirated copy... :evilgrin:

[gateley]

122. K&R

[INdemo]

124. yes and the last phase of the complete hijacking of our

Democracy came when the Supreme Court appointed their corporate puppet.That was the beginning of the end of our Democracy..By the time 2004 elections rolled around and another election theft put the final touches on what was to become the Corporate States of America.

[ProudDad]

154. Actually, the first "corporate puppet"

was probably U.S. Grant...

[ProSense]

125. Here is a

difference.

Wall Street reform gives regulators power over executive pay

By Zachary A. Goldfarb

For the all the changes to the regulatory fabric contained in the landmark Dodd-Frank law, none might be more significant to the financial sector's health than Section 956(a).

That largely overlooked provision of the law gives federal agencies expanded powers to write regulations dictating pay at financial firms. How they choose to use these powers could have a major impact on whether banks pursue excessive risks.

"The financial crisis made patently clear that the direct regulation of the choices that banks make is bound to be imperfect because regulators are often following behind," said Lucian A. Bebchuk, a Harvard Law School professor who has advised the Obama administration on executive compensation issues. "It's valuable for regulators to have an extra tool to influence the private incentives that will shape executives' decision-making."

Banking regulators now face a set of choices as they seek to implement the financial pay provisions of the law, which requires action within nine months.

more

Testimony Concerning Executive Compensation Oversight after the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act


This is a first in this country and a start: Unfinished business of executive pay reform

Most analysts of the high-finance meltdown that ushered in the Great Recession have concluded that excessive compensation was a key causal factor. Outrageously high rewards gave executives an incentive to behave outrageously, to take the sorts of reckless risks that would eventually endanger our entire economy. Our nation's leading political players have sought, sometimes with grand fanfare, to confront this reality. The financial reform package enacted this July, for instance, codifies several long-term goals of executive pay reformers, most notably a “say on pay” provision that hands shareholders the right to take nonbinding advisory votes on executive compensation.

This reform could become a valuable tool for shareholder activists, particularly if such votes are required on an annual basis. However, there is little evidence that “say on pay” has had an impact on overall compensation levels in nations where it has already been in practice.

<...>

From the 90s when the CEO pay loophole was created to now, this is progress.

[KoKo]

126. ProSense...what do YOU, Personally...Think is a Difference?

Your Links are from articles and don't tell us WHAT YOU THINK........

What DO..You Think? Personally, that is.

[ProSense]

127. "Your Links are from articles and don't tell us WHAT YOU THINK"

Yes, they do. They tell you that I think that information represents a difference.

I think responding to it with interrogation like questions is curiously odd.

[KoKo]

130. I like that you always post links...but it would be helpful if you personalized

the links with commentary as to what you think the links mean to YOU, Personally. That's what I'm asking. You mostly comment with links when people ask you questions..or you do it in response as to what I think you perceive as "attacks" against Obama or Democrats.

You never get involved in a "personal way."

Edite: For Clarity of the point I was trying to make.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

135. Are insults really necessary? n/t

[ProSense]

134. Actually,

I repond the way I feel like responding. Sorry if it bothers you. The OP isn't about me or your opinion of how I respond to posts in general is irrelevant.

[KoKo]

136. Okay...."Peace to You." But, it would be helpful if you personalized your links. n't

[ProudDad]

155. It's called cherry picking

finding one little item (usually non-relevant) and posting it to refute the whole body of truth and experience that teaches us that the democrats/Obama are at best underachievers and at worst are probably implicit co-conspirators...

The two right-wings of the Corporate War Party working in harness...

[ProSense]

177. No, it's

called reality. I doubt people are upset that Republicans took the House because there is no difference between the two parties.

Rhetoric feels good, but it's not reality.

[ProudDad]

192. The "republicans" took the House

because of floods of corporate money that wanted to buy REAL republicans instead of faux-republicans (you DID notice that most of the dems who lost were blue-dogs, right?)...

You also seem to be confused between facts and experience vs. "Rhetoric"...

The facts and experience of the last 2 years is that the wars go on, corporate power has INCREASED (the god damn dems couldn't even pass a FUCKING sunshine law on corporate donations!) and the REAL economy, the one that working folk live within, is screwing us...

And NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE is being done about the most important issue of all -- Catastrophic Global Climate Destabilization!

While the fake (Wall Street/banksters/war profiteers/media monopolies) economy, the corporate capitalist "system" that Obama and his appointees from Goldman Sachs were tasked with saving is doing VERY WELL...

I admire your persistence in holding on to "hope(tm)", it must be comforting for you...

But I'm afraid in the long run, if you're paying attention, you will be disappointed by the near-right-wing of the Corporate War Party...

[BzaDem]

186. I think the problem is that the "whole body of truth" is actually not the truth.

In this case, the one little item is actually representative of reality, not something that is an exception to reality.

[YOY]

178. You were asked a question. Answer it. You are not a politician.

Answer it or remain silent.

Nobody is in the mood for impotent snark anymore.

[slipslidingaway]

128. knr n/t

[theFrankFactor]

140. I Hope the Democratic Party Rah, Rahs Will See This... Someday

It's a good cop bad cop game. It's the Washington Generals (democrats) versus the Globe Trotters (republicans). The loser? YOU!

[defendandprotect]

144. "they have gained complete and total control over both political Parties"...

Agree ... the Obama administration is making that completely clear --

Now -- what's Plan B --

Continuing doing what we are doing is only strengthening the forces of evil --

Most Democrats seem to be waking up to this reality at long last --

We are a huge liberal voting bloc --

[ProudDad]

156. Secede...and Power Down...

Relocalize...

Simplify your life...

Build strong, resilient local economies...

Take over your local governments...

And don't expect any help from the states or federal governments...

[defendandprotect]

206. Recall that to be Jerry Brown's advice ... everyone acting on their own?

Have a lot of respect for that and for your advice ---

Relocalize ... Simplify your life... Build strong, resilient local economies...

Take over your local governments ... And don't expect any help from the states or

federal governments"


One of the primary reasons, imo, we didn't get MEDICARE FOR ALL is because it would

be a great unifying experience. A very strong common thread to pull.


But aren't the people who already understand what is going on those who have

already been so impoverished by capitalism's corruption and crimes -- and wouldn't

that be a strong place to start in uniting them? Thinking of the long term unemployed

and the vast energy and power available from that source. Biggest threat to TPB is

really unionization -- and I don't only mean of employed labor --

Seniors are under huge threat -- yet they are only united via AARP - an insurance company.


Your advice, btw, is also the advice for surviving "peak oil" --

I've been trying for longer than I'd care to tell you to get my town to move to local

RR to neighborhood transportation -- trolleys in town and near town, as well. Response:

Two years ago -- they decided to spend almost a million dollars are surveying need for

huge parking decks which no one here wanted -- finally defeated after a lot of expense

and a lot of work by activists in town. These aren't activists who are as likely to be

fighting for ending the era of the gasoline driven auto, however.


Quitting now, but what I've said was simply musings -- thinking out loud --

Or is it "grasping for straws" ... ?


:)

[nofurylike]

152. yeah, the daddy party did it. not the lazy people who couldn't

be bothered participating.

the democratic party is our party. and it is as different from repukes as night is from day. funny all the people posting about the horrible things the repukes are now about to do, yet some still dare to suggest there is no difference.

and if you all want it to be something more - as we all do, but some work for that - why do you just let it become what you claim you don't want it to be?

we didn't all just sit back and watch it and complain. many of us work continuously to evolve it, and we have taken it a long way from what it was.

but many didn't do a thing, or did the least possible, and yet are here complaining about it now.

pooor frickin babies

[ProudDad]

193. Oh, but there is a difference

Superficial but demonstrably a difference...

The republicans want to do NOTHING but the bidding of their corporate capitalist masters...

(and a few of them are certifiable Nazis)

The "Democrats" will allow a few crumbs to fall from the table while doing the bidding of their corporate capitalist masters...

(And a few of them are emasculated Progressives)

Welcome to the Duopoly(tm) in the Corporate States of Amerika...

[ProudDad]

157. Thanks for the thread, Kentuck!

It's NICE not to be alone...

:hi:

[2Design]

160. grayson said he went to washington to do the peoples business but

found all of the republicans and many of the democrats had sold out to corporations

[Raine]

201. and then look what they did to Grayson

because he was too independant ... GONE! :grr:

[farmboxer]

161. America is a plutocracy

There really is very little hope. Corporations have made it that way...........

[h9socialist]

166. Or, more succinctly:

"The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the bourgeoisie as a whole."

[creon]

167. It does not help

It does not help that people are apathetic.

40 to 60% of eligible voters do not bother to vote.

This is, of course, preceded by the failure to keep with politics and current events.

[TBF]

168. Why should they vote when the outcome is the same for them? nt

[creon]

171. true enough

There are not very many people who take the time to 'keep up'.

People are busy trying to make a living and take care of their family.

And, we have no real concept of 'public'. Basically, there is no 'public good', nor any idea of 'public service'.

Basically, it is 'everyman for himself'.

[ProudDad]

195. Yep, the Progressive/Socialist "New Deal" ideal

of community...

That briefly had a chance to take over in the 1930s...

Until co-opted by FDR and supplanted by the Permanent War that began in 1939...

Has been stamped out of the body politic...

In favor of libertarian bullshit...

EVERY man is an island in a dog eat dog world...

Divide and Conquer...

[creon]

202. yes

That is basically how live nowadays.

root hog; or, die

sad

[YOY]

185. Unlike some here want them to be...they are not fools.

n/t

[ProudDad]

194. I wonder...

The reason most of them don't vote is that the corporate propaganda machine (republican version) has convinced some that they are powerless and that the government is "evil"...

And the corporate propaganda machine (non-republican version) keeps spewing irrelevant bullshit "issues" at them that make NO connection with the events and problems of their own lives and that also convinces them that government is impotent...

So for most of them, NOT voting is a Choice.

A choice NOT to encourage the two-right-wings of the corporate war party because the result will historically be the same...

More misery for the average working person and the poor...

And the rich will get richer...

[bobburgster]

170. Do you think Obama difficulties are connected to the OP?

I do!

[ProudDad]

196. I think Obama is a

creature of the corporate state...

And is doing their bidding since it's also his world view...

He was after all a willing and successful trainee at the School for Defense of the Status Quo; Harvard Law...

[bobburgster]

205. Respectfully disagree.

I believe compassion for those less fortunate can be maintained even after going through Harvard Law.

[The Box]

174. Big Business

 I washed "stupid" off my forehead a long time ago.
Of course this country is one political party, just look at
what it takes to get elected, lots and lots of money. This
country was bought by big business and special interests years
ago. Once in a while D.C. acts like they care for what's left
of the middle class, but its all a show. And, does anyone even
mention the poor anymore? Its going to get worse before it
gets better,you can count on that!

[BzaDem]

175. The next Republican president will elucidate to all the difference between the parties.

It is a shame that we have to wait that long for a few people to get it.

[soleft]

176. Pretty much what George Carlin used to say

[YOY]

179. and all the "Good Germans" in the world cannot link to enough BS telling me otherwise.

Mine lying eyes doth not deceive me.

[mstinamotorcity]

180. Now that you have pointed

out what you say is wrong, what are you willing to do about it????????

TOMBStone

[ProudDad]

197. You are in a unique position

Detroit is DOWNSIZING big time!

You should get involved in the Urban Gardening movement up there, at least...

You should determine what the new landscape of the town will look like, where the logical urban villages to come will be located and work locally in your area to bring about community sustainability...

Begin a Transition Movement in your community...

But for Dog's sake, don't depend on Obama or the Michigan State House to do anything for ya'...

[mstinamotorcity]

199. I think I was asking the

author of the OP the question. And I know just about all of the community based things and businesses in Detroit and surrounding suburbs and learn of new ones everyday. I think you are mis informed about Mstinamotorcity!!!

[ewagner]

181. Right on Kentuck!

The good news is more and more people are beginning to understand it. I think a real revolution is in the works.

[Jack Sprat]

198. Like the exorcist said, "there is only one"

Agree 100%, kentuck

[Raine]

200. EXACTLY! nt

[Odin2005]

204. Economic Power is Political Power

True democracy is impossible without economic democracy. Under Capitalism elections are a facade, controlled via Propaganda and corruption.

[defendandprotect]

207. Strongly agree, Kentuck -- and we should be engaged in constant discussion re how to

free ourselves from the two business parties --

Why we haven't been doing that, I can't guess -- !!

[kentuck]

208. Interesting..

If we could only predict the future...

[defendandprotect]

210. My crystal ball .....

is a bit foggy but it seems to become hyper-erratic when fed the question,

"Will salvation come via the Democratic Party -- ?"