Here's a billboard in New Jersey that we'll hear more about...

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.salon.com/news/atheism/?story=/mwt/feature/2010/11/29/atheist_war_on_christmas

[MineralMan]

1. Nice design.

I expect it to be burned or something.

[NightWatcher]

2. Bill O'Really just got moist. finally the opening salvo in the 2010 War on Xmas

[Swamp Rat]

28. LOL!!!

:D

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. That be fun

where did I place my ground to air missile, and is it fast enough to catch santy? I really want to get that other myth... RUDOLPH!!!!

[Ganja Ninja]

186. He's probably the one that paid for it.

Just so he could rant about it.

[hlthe2b]

3. waving the red flag in the bull's face...

Not unlike the "in your face" tactics that PETA has taken to using. Is this really the best way for atheists to get their message out? :shrug:

[MineralMan]

11. Why not? The religionists certainly have a lot of billboards.

Good for the goose...

[Union Scribe]

19. Which are annoying. Why does the gander wish to be as annoying as the goose?

[MineralMan]

31. Just ignore it, if it bothers you.

That's what I do with things like that. Who cares?

[hlthe2b]

48. Because, like you, we all have a right to our opinion?

Quit telling people what to do and how to think, MM. It is condescending and annoying.

[MineralMan]

50. Thank you for your feedback.

That was my opinion. It is not the same as your opinion. But I appreciate your feedback, as always.

Oddly enough, you appear to be telling me what to do, as well. Hmm...I think I'll just go on posting what I please. Carry on.

[JuniperLea]

61. I caught that too...

Funny! Stop doing that but while you're at it, stop telling me what to do!

It's like starting a thread saying to stop all the threads about whatever your thread is about!

Oh boy... the entertainment value never dies around here.

[MineralMan]

64. Yup. Good for the goose...

Those old saws are always useful, it seems.

[patrice]

126. Good Morning JuniperLea! . . . Extremely common behavior, that!

[alterfurz]

151. If there's one right I'll always fight to defend...

...it's that everyone is entitled to my opinion!

[The Doctor.]

98. Suggesting someone ignore what irritates them is hardly 'telling people what to do and how to think'

The irony of demanding that someone quits doing something, otoh, is pretty spectacular.

There is a significant difference between suggesting a method for dealing with an irritant and issuing commands.

[Dr.Phool]

123. Hell has officially frozen over!

I'm in agreement with Mineral Man for a change!

[Renew Deal]

143. Isn't that the point of DU?

:shrug:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

189. "Quit telling people what to do and how to think...."

Wow, that irony in that statement is delicious.

[niyad]

114. welcome to DU--sometimes it is just fun to goose the goose.

of course, here in fundieville, that billboard would have been completely destroyed by now.

[patrice]

128. Here too AND they would ruin the company that sold it . . . NOT exaggerating! nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

169. Around here, the churches would have galvanized their flocks to bombard the media company

with complaints, someone would have defaced or torched it, the newspaper would be flooded with indignant letters to the editor...meanwhile the graphic fetus billboard and the "Lonely? Depressed? Angry? Christ is STILL the answer!" billboard across the street would remain plainly visible, untouched and uncommented upon.

[patrice]

125. Because honest, courageous, respectful dialectic IS useful to all sides involved. nt

[piratefish08]

135. I'm sure the poor, oppressed Christian religion will survive the attack........

[Crystal Clarity]

236. I'm a Christian and I don't view this an attack

It's just a billboard displaying a different POV then I happen to hold. No big deal. Am I supposed feel attacked or somehow offended by it? :shrug:

[Mariana]

252. It seems that some expect you to feel as if you've been attacked.

Just read the thread. I think you're letting some folks down by considering it no big deal. You apparently should feel as if you've been proactively slapped in the face. You also ought to feel antagonized by the obnoxious in-your-face tactics of this group. Oh, and you're a bull and the billboard is a red flag being waved at you, too.

[GinaMaria]

214. Aren't all billboards annoying?

Doesn't really matter what they say. They all seem to be in the 'annoying' category.

[Dr.Phool]

122. No shit. Come down I-75 in Floriduh. Wanna see billboards?

Anti-abortion, come to Jeebus.

It's enough to make you want to invest in a high-powered paintball set.

[patrice]

127. "God"! wouldn't! THAT feel! good!!! Pow! SPLATT!!! Pow! pow!!

Oh how I wish!

[Pacifist Patriot]

229. I-95 on the East coast is no better!

[Crystal Clarity]

237. Except I-95 in Maine

We've had a no-billboard law in place for decades.

[Pacifist Patriot]

247. I meant east coast of Florida.

I love no-billboard laws. I consider them vision pollution.

[Lucky 13]

30. Yeah, the sitting back and trusting religions not to walk all over them has worked so well...

I find it less offensive than most billboards out there!

[hlthe2b]

47. So no middle ground between proactively slapping them in the face

and standing your ground/advocating for your position?

[MineralMan]

57. That is the middle ground, as in that billboard which advocates

for reason, rather than superstition. A slap in the face is much more direct and personal. Drowning or burning at the stake is even more direct and personal, it seems to me.

A sign advocating reason? Meh. The real question is why it offends anyone at all. I think we should advocate for reason every season - not just Winter.

[AlabamaLibrul]

95. If that's proactively slapping them in the face, atheists got a chainsaw to the arm Scarface style.

eom

[Le Taz Hot]

115. "Proactively slapping them in the face."

I seem to remember this bumper sticker: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." The conclusion, of course, is that no one other than Christians are "forgiven" and will be condemned to eternal hellfire and damnation. That's pretty "in your face" if you ask me.

[patrice]

131. AND that whatever they do, like Inquisitions, and War on Iraq, etc. etc., ALL is Okay, because THEY

say so.

It's VERY circular stuff.

[patrice]

129. "slap in the face"? The billboard is NOT an insult. nt

[piratefish08]

141. proactive slap in the face? no. knocking on my door at 9am to instruct me in their religion

is a slap in the face.

[MedicalAdmin]

168. So invite them in. It's fun to mess with fundamentalists.

After you have them randomly move some heavy furniture up and down some stairs, then invite them to chat with you about atheism. Loosen your bathrobe. Scratch some stuff. When they complain, claim that if God created the body then who are they to complain about it.

If they continue to be upset ask them if they are Christian. When they say of course, then tell them to forgive you.

An old retired roman catholic lady I know used to be bothered at home by the Jehovah Witless. One day, tired of being bothered at her door at all hours of the day invited the young men and women into her living room. She served tea and then sat down. When they started their sales talk, she interupted and asked them if they would pray with her.

Of course they agreed so she slid off her chair and onto her knees on her wooden floor and then looked at them expectantly. Reluctantly they joined her in kneeling on hardwood. She then proceeded to say the Rosary ... full version ... in the original latin. That took about one hour. When she finished she opened her eyes and asked them if they had anything to add.

They said thanks for the time, got up stiffly, and left never to return.



I loved that tough old lady.

[Tsiyu]

231. My wildest son, when he lived here, did something um,, more effective

I arrived home one afternoon and he asked "Did you see that van tearing off down the street just now?"

"No," i replied.

He started laughing, then proceeded to tell me he had spotted the Jehovah's Witnesses coming up the drive so he stripped and answered the door buck naked with the 12-gauge in his hands. A man had knocked on the door, but he backed away and as some of his women friends were getting out of the van he screamed "Don't get out!" and he jumped in the van and tore off out of our lane.

"You didn't!" I said, embarrassed.

"Oh yes i did," he said. "And I did it last time they showed up,too, except I wasn't holding the gun. They didn't come back for two years, Bet it'll be five years this time!"

I was mortified but I had to laugh anyway.....we live in the woods and don't get too many visitors. Most of us like it that way. But my son took it to a whole other level...

Not advocating this as a tactic, but it still cracks me up when i think about the look that guy must have had on his face...I bet now we won't be any of the 144,000 who are going to heaven....damn!

[elleng]

36. I agree 100%, and not just athiests, but many others.

And esp at this time of year.

I like it, visually and poetically, but more likely to foment hostility than anything else, and there' already too much of that going on.

[11 Bravo]

63. As a Christian who has often been offended by the rhetoric of allegedly Christian organizations ...

I say that anything that pushes Bill O'Reilly closer to his final melt-down is a beautiful thing.

[hlthe2b]

66. I doubt any of us would disagree on your point re: O'Reilly...

Now if you could take, butterball Beck, Loudmouth Limbaugh, Hapless Hannity, and the rest of their ilck down with him, I'd pitch in for the next billboard. ;)

[cleanhippie]

155. SO, as long as you agree with it, its not "waving a red flag in the bull's face" ?

You are contradicting yourself.

[hlthe2b]

188. Apparently, you needed me to be overwhelmingly obvious...

Here ya go.... :sarcasm: Happy now?

[cleanhippie]

192. No not happy. I was never upset.

But I now understand , and I thank you for that.

I am usually pretty good on picking up on sarcasm, even without the smiley, but no so much in this case.

[callous taoboy]

213. Dude, your point was spot-on.

Pissing off the eyes-wide-shut folks is sport for me.

[Pacifist Patriot]

103. This is an excellent way for atheists to get their message out.

I am not a member of American Atheists, but I am a non-theist and support the American Humanist Association which also advertises around the holidays. They evoked O'Reilly's wrath a few years ago with their "Be Good for Goodness Sake" campaign.

This is an excellent time of year to remind people that there are alternatives. We are inundated with religious messages and it can feel incredibly isolating. There are numerous agnostics, non-theists, humanists, atheists and secularists (however a person wants to identify him or herself) out there who may very well think they are alone in their thoughts.

The demographic for this advertisement is not Christians. The target market are those listed above who might look into the American Atheists because of seeing the billboard (or more likely the media flurry to follow).

If a faith cannot endure challenge it is a pretty poor form of faith to adhere to.

[patrice]

134. +1~ for Goodness' sake!!! nt

[MedicalAdmin]

172. the religious who spring to defend their "god" are dissing god.

It's as if they believe that god, a being of infinite power (presumably), needs some feckless schmo to defend him/her/it/them. Waddajoke.

[bongbong]

185. Just like Carlin

Your point reminds me of George Carlin's rant about how God is all-powerful, but he has a problem, a BIG problem, with holding on to money.

:evilgrin:

[Lucian]

120. Absolutely.

Sometimes the nutcases need a dose of reality, and this billboard does just that.

[cleanhippie]

153. Are the same "in your face" tactics religious groups use the best way to get their meassage out?

So are you saying billboards are ok for religious groups but not an atheist group?

[Ghost in the Machine]

166. When's the last time an Atheist knocked on your door to try to pass his/her beliefs (or lack of)

on you?

What kind of "in your face" tactics? You mean like the fundies use?




"Is this really the best way for atheists to get their message out?"

We have a message?? I must be out of the loop...

[patrice]

210. The cross is not "in (my) face". It reminds me of a person who was killed by his Church-State for

_______________________.

[Frisbee]

175. I say yes!

[tpsbmam]

234. Ya know, I'm an agnostic who LOVES Christmas. I love the music, the time of year

in an old fashioned sense not in the modern commercial sense, I just plain love the traditions. For me, the traditions are mostly intensely personal and bring back memories of long lost grandparents, parents no longer here, and way more. It has nothing to do with religion for me, it has more to do with friends & family.

But in the US, there's an onslaught beginning on Thanksgiving and now often earlier. Everywhere I go, there are Christmas carols playing, bell ringers with kettles, TONS of marketing & ploys to attract customers to buy crap, Christmas movies all over TV & cable....it's pretty nonstop. We have a Christmas parade here that actually happens before Thanksgiving. There are decorations EVERYWHERE I go.

So with all of that, why would one or 1,000 billboards expressing a different point of view about this time of year bother you? I mean hell, I was brought up (sort of) in the Christian religion (Episcopal) and it gets to be over the top for me and I actually like SOME of it. What about all of the people in this country who don't share the Christian beliefs about Christmas? Why the hell shouldn't agnostics and/or atheists express themselves by whatever means Christians do?

[Beetwasher]

4. Cool! Get Ready Ready For The Moaning And Wailing About "Militant Atheists Proseletyizing"

n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. A few seconds too late.

:rofl:

[hootinholler]

152. You forgot the tooth gnashing!

Carry on...

-Hoot

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. Well, if believers can manifest themselves in that fashion, so can we.

Everybody has the same rights, right? RIGHT?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

45. As a commie pinko dirtbag you have no rights. It says it right there in the Declaration Of

Constitution. Surely your country has similar provisions to deal with the likes of you. :evilgrin:

[druidity33]

99. Stop calling him Shirley!

that was in honor of Leslie Nielson.

:)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

130. I can't believe I didn't think of that when I typed my reply. nt

[Mattylock]

179. Ha! Love Airplane!

[patrice]

138. Right, otherwise, they're not rights, they're privileges and ... oh, wait a minute ... nt

[Union Scribe]

6. And the point of doing that is...?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. See #5.

[Union Scribe]

14. But aren't those in-your-face expressions obnoxious?

I find them to be. Emulating them isn't ideal, I wouldn't think.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. About 1% as obnoxious as the religious stuff that atheists have to see, hear and read all the time.

Congratulations, now you have an idea how it feels like. Now multiply it by 100.

[robinlynne]

71. Yep.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

140. It's not ideal if that's the only thing you do.

[patrice]

144. Challenging them appropriately is good for them. If they can't deal with the issues raised, they

aren't what they claim to be. They need to know that and so does everyone else, ESPECIALLY in light of what this particular phenomenon claims to be.

If they can meet the challenge, good!
If they can't meet the challenge, also good!

Let the Truth rise to the top and I suspect that we will find that "both sides" ARE somewhat valid, just not necessarily in the ways that we claim they are.

[MineralMan]

9. The point is to make the point.

Why would you care. Someone can afford a billboard and put one up. It's lots of billboards out there telling us things. Why does this one matter to you?

[Adsos Letter]

10. Exercising free speech and religious freedom, I suppose.

Things the Constitution is supposed to protect.

[Union Scribe]

12. Why antagonize each other over religion, from either side?

[Vickers]

15. Which side do you REALLY believe has been the most antagonistic over the centuries?

Be honest now.

:rofl:

[Union Scribe]

17. The centuries? I'm talking about our current day-to-day existences.

If you're trying to fight some centuries old battle, you're far beyond anything I can say to you. I'm just tired of both sides constantly involving everyone in their stupid pissing contests.

[Vickers]

33. I'm not fighting ANY battle...I leave that to the religious warriors.

I'm just trying to provide you with some historical context so that you don't make a fool of yourself.

[Ikonoklast]

65. You're too late.

:P

[Tsiyu]

46. It's an advertisement for REASON

you know, intellect, sanity, reason? Heard of those things?


How so many people can believe that MALES created all life is beyond me.

The bias in all mainstream religions - against women - is the most illogical thing I can imagine. It's why a young female Notre Dame student was sexually assaulted and killed herself while her alleged male attacker is free to play on the Notre Dame team. it's why women and children suffer so horrifically in all societies with MALE-centric religions.

I was doing some study on early religious thoughts on the feminine. From the Dead Sea scrolls: "Better the evil a man does than the good a woman does."

A man can rape, steal, lie, cheat and kill and he is still superior to a woman who does no wrong? Hang it up! No wonder we're all fucked!

REASON gets people to see the truth.

to whomever put up the billboard: :yourock:

[MineralMan]

56. Sorry. Reason is anathema to many of the religionists.

That's why billboards like this upset them so. Anathema, I tell you. :rofl:

[Tsiyu]

67. I hear you, MM

We can have jeebus H, Warlord - who is a racist and hates poor people and sick people - shoved down our throats 24/7, but appeals to "reason" are somehow verboten?

Cracks me up every time, too :rofl:

[niyad]

117. it depresses me to see how many people support the patriarchal abrahamic belief systems, whose basis

is hatred for women.

[Tsiyu]

124. I completely agree

Seems we can agree that racism and homophobia are wrong (even though many mainstream denominations once pushed these and some still do...Fred Phelps) but misogyny is accepted lock, stock and barrel - even by women,

Until we get rid of this idea of woman as the "other" or the "lesser" we will continue to be a cold-hearted, money-is-god society.

[patrice]

148. I'm with you on being tired of that, really! But, for example, the buildup to the War on Iraq is kno

wn to co-relate with some rather intensified increases in national-level church cartels visiting the White House over and over again.

There is a minister, Lou Engle, in our city who advocates Civil War II against Abortion & LGBT Civil Rights. He and his church buddies just elected our governor, Sam Brownback, who almost his entire life has been on the dole for corporatist welfare and farm subsidies, never had to compete on merit for one second of his life, and who had an important part in radio broadcasts that very likely could have helped to provide the political base for the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq.

I wish I could ignore this "pissing contest", but it seems that I really must not!!!

[kestrel91316]

207. Carrying water for the christofascists won't earn you ANY friends on DU.

But I suspect you already knew that when you signed up.

Enjoy your stay.

[Dogtown]

225. You *want* to talk about

current events.
The abuses and provocation of Xianity is an embarrassment most Xians don't want to address, ever.



BTW, if you object to that billboard, I suppose you can disprove it's premise?

[slay]

21. Yeah really

the history books are littered with the dead bodies of those who refused to convert to christianity. i know of exactly ZERO atheists who have tried to convert people and then killed them if they didn't.

[liberalhistorian]

32. Zero, huh? Ever heard of the communists?

Ever heard of Lenin and Stalin and their "officially atheist" Soviet Union and the millions of people they killed in purges, pogroms, and the attempt at collectivist farming, which killed an estimated seven million people? Ever heard of their persecution of millions of Christians in the country, their destruction of churches, which forced believers of all religions in the country to go underground or risk imprisonment and/or death, just for the "sin" of believing in something the communist government didn't? Ever heard of "officially atheist" communist China, where the same things have happened and where they're only now starting to loosen up a bit?

It really can go both ways, you know. Just because it doesn't do so in this country doesn't mean that's the case in all nations in all eras, including now.

[Adsos Letter]

35. yep. works on all kinds of fronts.

[SteppingRazor]

51. Except that those killings happened under the banner of communism, not atheism.

Stalin was not killing believers in an attempt to purge the world of religion. He killed anyone and everyone -- including religious leaders -- who was a threat to the power of the party.

Killings in the name of religion happened for just that reason -- religion. The purging of nonbelievers. Killings by the commies did not happen because of lack of religion, though. Indeed, those killings came at the behest of an ideology just as powerful and faith-based as any religion. It is fundamentalism, not religion or ideology, that is the real problem.

[blondeatlast]

68. Exactly. nt

[liberalhistorian]

76. Those are very good points, and there's

a lot of truth to that. HOWEVER, the communists in those nations also actively persecuted and imprisoned those who dared to exercise any religious belief, even if it was holding a clandestine service in a private home. And communist party members were (and, in China, still are) required to publicly espouse offical atheism.

[SteppingRazor]

79. Granted, but I would argue those persecutions happened not because of the party's avowed atheism...

but because religion itself was a competing power structure. There were only two ways to go for the communists -- erase religion or co-opt it. And unlike in Nazi Germany, where various competing religions with relatively brief histories allowed for the co-opting of religion by the state, the Eastern Orthodox church had few rivals in Russia and was much more a part of the lives of the people. Stamping it out completely was necessary for control in a totalitarian state.

In other words, we see again that it was not atheism that caused the communists to persecute even the hidden practice of religion. It was communism. Or, more accurately I suppose, a totalitarian dictatorship based on Marxist-Leninist ideals. Whichever way you look at it, my argument is simply that religion was persecuted not because of atheism but because religion in Soviet Russia represented one of the very few, if not the only, competing authoritarian structures following the revolution.

[cleanhippie]

161. Excellent rebuttal.

Thank you for squashing that tired old argument. Nice job.

[slay]

74. Yeah I like communists

unfortunately all the world ever sees are bastardized versions of communism, not the kind Marx was speaking of - so i do not consider that true communism.

[cleanhippie]

159. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

People were killed for not conforming to COMMUNISM.

This topic has been discussed, and that viewpoint debunked repeatedly, in the R&T forum. Feel free to peruse those threads for supporting arguments.

[AtheistCrusader]

190. Looks like a theocracy, quacks like a theocracy, smells like a theocracy, kills like a theocracy...

Must be 'Atheists'!

Seriously, all Stalin did was replace the Church with the State/Party, and himself as it's infallable figurehead. He used the Church as a template. That's all. He built a theocracy that was 'atheistic' in name only.

He kicked out church/god because he didn't want personal competition.

[MellowDem]

39. I personally know zero Christians who have done that...

of course, there were and are secular governments that exist even to this day that do imprison and kill people for holding non-approved of religions, where atheism is the official belief, just look at China and the Soviet Union, so yes, it has happened and will continue to happen. As for your history reference, there are relatively few people who have died for refusing to convert to Christianity. Of all the violent deaths in history, the vast majority had very secular reasons behind them... land, food, riches, etc. So your hyperbole is not historically accurate. Heck, most conversions had little to do with religion and mostly to do with the religion of whatever secular ruler had just taken over an area for very secular reasons. And they were usually slow to happen in populations, and even then the old ways always mixed with the new religion, as we see to this day in Christmas. When it comes to body count, religion has nothing on the ol' competition for resources, which many a clever leader has tried to cover up with the pretense of religion. That has always been and will continue to always be the primary reason for conflict in this world, whether there is or is not religion.

I suppose where your logic really fails though is that you feel that history trumps present-day facts. Your thoughts on history are totally irrelevant to the fact that this billboard is a similar tactic used by religious organizations. Your bogus comparisons, analogies, and excuses are just trying to hide that fact.

[slay]

73. Well I was talking about history

you know - the wonderful crusades and what not. you, of course, are free to talk about what you want. and at length even. :hi:

[blondeatlast]

40. The religion people? Do I win?

And I happen to be one of them--and even I find us annoying as hell sometimes.

[Adsos Letter]

22. It's what they believe; they have the right to express it.

[Angry Dragon]

24. You are correct

However, how many religions attack other religions because they do not know
the true path to salvation??

[MineralMan]

29. Tit, as they say, for tat.

[Pacifist Patriot]

102. Why should the subject of religion be exempt from discourse?

[Le Taz Hot]

116. Athiesm isn't a religion. n/t

[Union Scribe]

180. You seem to have mis-read my post.

Or have replied to the wrong post.

[patrice]

145. The Constitution isn't supposed to protect things that aren't real. If they can't stand on their own

2 feet, without hiding from every little criticism that comes along, are they real?

Does The Constitution protect my right to self expression in closing my eyes and walking across a busy street?

[spanone]

42. to inform people.

[Skittles]

94. to let people know not everyone is brainwashed?

[Pacifist Patriot]

104. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9649970&mesg_id=9654991

[cleanhippie]

156. The same reason the religions do it.

Do you ask the same question when you see a billboard telling you that Jesus is the only way to salvation?

[Pacifist Patriot]

196. I'm not convinced it is the same reason.

I think those who pay for Christian billboards are prosthyltizing in the mission field while the Atheist/Humanist ad campaigns are preaching to a hidden choir.

[cleanhippie]

239. Both are trying to increase membership.

[Raster]

13. I like it. Perhaps a few more around the country? Salt Lake City, Dallas...

Tulsa, Greenville, SC, just to name a few.

[Pacifist Patriot]

147. Colorado Springs

[cleanhippie]

162. Ugh, Greenville...

My mother moved there several years ago for her job. If ever a place NEEDED that billboard, Greenville is it...

[krabigirl]

173. I wish they would add one where I live, in spitting distance of Rick Warren's megachurch.

[Raster]

184. That would be a lovely location! In fact, I'd chip in on that "present."

"It's just a two-minute prayer."

Yes, and just one billboard.

[slay]

16. My evangelical cousin won't let his son read Harry Potter

but yet he indoctrinates the poor kid with all his christain nonsense about a guy rising from the dead, some other guy parting an ocean, and yet some other guy who put 2 of every animal on the planet in his boat. seems perfectly rational to me.... :eyes: :crazy: :wtf:

[backscatter712]

132. I like how Bill Maher puts it in Religulous.

First, he brings up Scientology, with the Thetans, the volcanoes filled with aliens and the hydrogen bombs, and Xenu, then segues to Christianity, saying "But switch to the rising from the dead and man walking with dinosaurs and the talking snake, hey, that's all cool..." :evilgrin:

[yellowwood]

18. Don't Pay Deference

I've stopped paying deference to other people's superstitions in the fear that I will "offend" their sensibilities. I don't believe in attacking others' beliefs, but, on the other hand, when believers assume that I share them, I just say that "I'm not religious."
I think that we should do this. It's like the old story "The Emperor Has No Clothes." As long as we all pretend that the emperor is not naked, we support a lie.

[bongbong]

187. My reply

If somebody asks me about religion, I reply that I do believe in the father & the son. I continue with the story of how Jupiter was mad at Apollo for a while but then forgave him. :evilgrin:

[malaise]

20. Freaking beautiful

Thanks

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. While I am sure there will be a malestrom over this, I like it NT

[Swamp Rat]

25. YAAY!!

Finally a billboard just for me! O8)

[MellowDem]

26. Boring...

Another interest group pushing their beliefs from billboards. Can't say I've ever seen a billboard I like, really.

[Adsos Letter]

37. I could get behind doing away with ALL billboards...

advertising, messaging, whatever. Clean up the view out on the roadways.

[Township75]

108. Me too!

!

[MineralMan]

27. Here's another nice image

[Divernan]

111. Only 36 years old? Must have been all those pesticides.

[hughee99]

34. Well, never let it be said that it's only the "believers" shit

we have to put up with. I want to listen to someone talk about their lack of religious beliefs EXACTLY as much as I want to hear someone talk about their religious beliefs (which, incidentally, is also exactly as much as I want to be kicked in the balls).

[Jack Rabbit]

41. I know what you mean

It's like listening to Marie Osmond talk about her virginity in the supermarket tabloids. That was years ago, but I was just as offended by that as by Madonna talking about her sex life in print during that era.

[blondeatlast]

43. My mom taught me never to talk politcs or religion. One of those I adhere to.

Since I'm here at DU, I guess it's fairly obvious which one that is.

Only I guess I just blew off the other one, too.

Sorry mom--I still don't do either in POLITE company! ;)

[qb]

38. The target audience is atheists who know it's a myth.

Everyone else should just chill & ignore it the way men ignore Kotex commercials.

[rug]

52. Who knew there were that many closeted atheists going through the Lincoln Tunnel?

[qb]

58. One need not be in the closet to be unaware of American Atheists.

This is simply a campaign to increase membership.

[rug]

59. Tthat's an honest observation.

Thank you.

[Goblinmonger]

85. Do you really think most atheists are out?

They aren't. This country is, overall, not very accepting of atheists. U of Minn study and all.

[rug]

215. I'd like to see the evidence that most self-identified atheists hide their self-identification.

[Goblinmonger]

222. I think you could get anecdotal evidence from many on here

Here is an interesting blog
http://northwestern.news21.com/2009/2009/08/17/coming-out-atheist/

I'm sure you knowingly made the claim asking for "evidence" for something t hat would be very hard to show statistically.

I am an in-the-closet atheist. I teach in a high school with 60 other teachers. A whopping 2 know that I am an atheist. And that was after many years of working with them. Know how many other atheists I know of on staff? Zero. Now statistics would tell you that there are most likely a minimum of 5 more atheists on staff (more if you go with the studies that say more education is correlated with atheism) but none of us are "out." And I don't even live in the south where it is worse.

[rug]

224. A serious question.

Why?

I grasp that you'd likely face, at least unpleasant, reactions at work but do you think you could be disciplined or ostracized in the workplace?

I'm sure you realize that would be illegal, though difficult to prove.

My second question.

I assume some of your coworkers are friends. Other than the two you mentioned, do you think none of the other 58 would have no problem with your atheism?

This is not intended to start a flame war. I am genuinely curious what pressures exist out there to cover what is obviously a deeply held position.

[darkstar3]

226. I can trace the loss of a prior job of mine to "coming out of the atheist closet".

When I told my family I was an atheist, my mother told me she was glad I wasn't planning to have kids.

As the only atheist family members, my wife and I constantly find ourselves conveniently forgotten at family events and outings.

At my current job, the majority of employees attend the same church every Sunday.

I keep my atheism very quiet at work, now, and at family holidays I choose to grit my teeth in silence rather than speak an invite more incivility. There are many good reasons to stay "in the atheist closet", and that's just here in the US. If you think it's hard to find a Christian in China or Egypt, try finding an atheist anywhere in Muslim world. I'm sure they exist, but you won't find them...

[rug]

242. That's terrible.

We all need support and we all need allies.

[Goblinmonger]

230. A serious answer.

I fully believe that if I were an out atheist, the following would almost certainly happen:

1. many teachers would no longer talk to me because I am an atheist.
2. many students would freak out (I already hear comments about "what are you, an atheist" when a student makes some comment not fully behind another student's experience)
3. many parents would raise holy hell.
4. I would be ostracized. I don't think I would be fired, but the climate would change drastically.

And on the homefront, I know of several parents who would no longer let their kids hang out with my kids if they knew that I was an atheist.

I wish it were different. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm quite sure that those things would happen. It really doesn't feel safe. I know I and others come off as very overt about the whole atheist thing on here, but that's not our everyday persona. I have had conversations with many on here that are in the same situation as I am. And I am in Wisconsin which is marginally progressive. I can't imagine living in the deep south where I perceive it would be worse.

[rug]

241. I don't know what to say.

Frankly I'm appalled at the reactions you've gotten.

For many years I was an overt Communist, May Day rallies, selling newspapers, Anti-Klan rallies, the works. I never was quiet about it, particularly in my family, which was of the Catholic, Democratic, prounion but very anticommunist strain. We argued but never became estranged. But this was all happening in NYC, which is not Wisconsin or Alabama.

I suppose in retrospect it had an impact on who I became friends with. It did effect jobs. (I was fired four times for various union and political activities.) I guess I wasn't paying attention to how others reacted.

Thanks for your answer. I have something to chew on.

[Pacifist Patriot]

235. Pressure is particularly harsh on families.

My children had several friends in the neighborhood with parents who were delighted to have their children come to play at my house when they learned I was a member of the clergy. What could be a safer environment than that, right? As soon as they found out I served a Unitarian Universalist congregation and self-identified as a religious humanist their children were not only no longer allowed to play in my home, my children were not allowed to play at theirs.

A member of the local humanist group was let go from a small family business when they found out he was atheist.

A senior girl was quite loudly verbally mocked by classmates and their families as she accepted her diploma at graduation because she and her atheist parents had requested the 25 foot cross at the podium in the megachurch where the graduation of a public high school was being held be suitably covered during the ceremony. Their yard was vandalized repeatedly in the weeks leading up to the graduation.

The DEC in the county directly to the south of mine declined to support a candidate for public office when they found out he was an atheist. Yes, that is D as in Democrat.

The local churches organized a boycott of a local fresh produce market when they learned it was owned and operated by a family of atheists. Considering the percentage of Christians and atheists in our community, exactly how long do you think they stayed in business?

I am obviously open about my non-theism. I have had people spit on me (quite literally), feel perfectly within their rights to inform me I will burn in hell, and call me an unfit mother.

My own extended family chose to ignore my graduation from seminary because it was not a Southern Baptist seminary. They did not acknowledge my ordination into the clergy other than one aunt who sent me a card with a single Bible passage on it that indicated I was destined for the pits of hell. My aunts, uncles and cousins refuse to use my title on formal correspondence like wedding invitations or baby announcements because I am not a "real" Reverend. This is family, so you can imagine what I get from strangers.

[rug]

243. Wow, I guess being a minister provides little insulation.

[Pacifist Patriot]

257. None whatsoever.

Apparently, I should know better if I'm a minister so I make a fabulous target.

The irony is that my religious studies educated me out of Christianity. Personally, I still cannot fathom how any seminarian can study biblical criticism, church history and comparative world religion and still remain devout. Granted, I know there are plenty of seminaries that do not teach these subjects. They simply teach their own dogma and their own specific hermeneutics. I had the good fortune of having a rather robust course of studies.

Humanist clergy is seen as an oxymoron by both monotheists and many secular humanists. My strongest support comes from religious humanist, Buddhist and Hindu acquaintances.

[raccoon]

220. Elucidate, my dear Watson. U of Minn Study? was it about closet atheists?

I think there are tons of them.

[Goblinmonger]

221. The main one on attitudes toward atheists

Here is a good summary
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm

[raccoon]

232. I thought this paragraph especially good:

"Given the relatively low number of atheists in America, and the even lower number who are public about their atheism, Americans can't have come to their beliefs about atheists through personal experience and hard evidence about what atheists are really like. Furthermore, dislike of atheists doesn’t correlate very highly with dislike of gays, immigrants, or Muslims. This means that dislike of atheists isn't simply part of a larger dislike of people who are "different." "

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm

[Pacifist Patriot]

160. Probably more than most people think.

With each successive Pew survey, the numbers of non-believers and doubters grows.

Atheists in many areas of the country are firmly in the closet. To come out as an atheist could literally destroy careers, marriages, social standing in the community, etc.

[cleanhippie]

163. And thats the point.

[rug]

216. What, that Lincoln Tunnel commuters are hidden atheists?

[cleanhippie]

238. I'm sure some are.

You don't agree?

[NashVegas]

203. Except, To Do So Now Promotes Atheism to a Religion

ie, a positive affirmation.

[darkstar3]

218. Um, no.

[sakabatou]

44. Oh, the comments on this are gonna go straight to FSTDT

[gratuitous]

49. As a Bible believing Christian, I say

Well, duh! But then, the stories gathered together in what became the gospel of Matthew were not intended to be what we today consider historical reporting on factual occurrences. It's about time the atheists figured out they're trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine. Odd that they'd sound so smug, though; as if they themselves just uncovered something new. Oh well, I'll lend them as much deference as I do the "literalist" nitwits.

[Le Taz Hot]

118. It's not the athiests that are trying to take away

a woman's right to choose, dictate who does and does not get to wed or who is trying to pass off creationist "science." That's the difference.

On edit: Eliminated redundant sentence.

[Pacifist Patriot]

154. I rather think 'myth' is being used in multiple ways here.

I can assure you atheists know full well they haven't uncovered anything new when referring to Biblical stories as myth. But there is a world of difference between recognizing the truth in logos and the truth in mythos. Sadly, biblical literalists haven't figured out the distinction, but atheists sure have.

I am genuinely curious about people who identify themselves as "Bible believing Christians" but say they accept the contents metaphorically and mythologically rather than literally. I never know precisely what they mean when they say this. Literalists use the same phrase and its rather easy to know exactly what they mean by it.

[bongbong]

191. Definitions

"Bible believing Christians" is a phrase that means "I believe whatever is in the Bible that justifies my behavior, and says whatever I do makes me holy"

[cleanhippie]

164. wait, WHAT?

You "believe" the bible, yet you know its a collection of stories and mythology not meant to be taken literally?

I don't get it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

194. and I thought it was just me.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

223. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

54. Not any more that I know that it isn't. nt

[Kceres]

60. We need more of these.

Place a few in Kansas, I-70 East/West. Erect them among the anti-choice billboards and "Live Nude Girls Next Exit" signs.

[littlewolf]

62. all you gotta do is rent one .....

you can do it ....

[progressoid]

69. Not always that simple

Very few billboard owners want to risk the backlash from renting to HEATHENS.

I see pro-life billboards all the time but something like this would be a very difficult thing to do around here.

[littlewolf]

75. Most billboards are owned by a company .. IE CBS

so local sentiments are not a large factor ....
awhile back ppl were renting billboards and asking
"where's the birth certificate Barry?"
or something to that effect ....
and companies didn't have any problem
taking THEIR money ....

[earth mom]

70. K & R!

:thumbsup:

[NeoGreen]

72. the ffrf has been doing this for years...

I guess the AAs are trying to play catchup.

Google ffrf.org, nice group of people.

[DavidDvorkin]

77. Shocking. Atheists should avoid ruffling the feathers of theists because

being polite has worked so well for other scorned groups.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

80. Wow.

Just wow.

[Rage for Order]

84. What's to "wow" about?

Rather than spending thousands of dollars to put down the beliefs of other people, why not spend that money feeding people who are hungry or providing shelter for the homeless? It would engender much more goodwill and be a positive force in the community rather than a negative force.

Or they can continue to shit on others. Whatever they think is best.

:shrug:

[darkstar3]

90. So you, a non-member of their target demographic, are offended by what, exactly?

The usage of the word "myth"?

How do you feel about...

traitor
bastard
viper
agent of the devil
worthless
unfit to be a citizen
unfit to be a parent

Shall I go on? Maybe when the above words and many more venomous insults are no longer hurled at atheists from television, radio, print, and personal confrontations, we won't feel the need for a little solidarity.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

97. What's to "wow" about? Ask the mods who rightfully deleted it. -nt

[cleanhippie]

167. The target audience is ATHEISTS!!!

Not believers. DO you apply the same standard to the THOUSANDS of religious billboards, radio and TV shows, lobbying groups and PAC, etc that "put down the beliefs of other people" ? Or do you think its ok for them to "continue to shit on others" ?


Pot, meet kettle.

[Pacifist Patriot]

178. This is what I don't get.

The "You KNOW..." is clearly aimed at like-minded individuals, not devout Christians. If it doesn't apply to you, why get in a tizzy? At least that's my approach to the umpteen million religious messages with which I am inundated. Otherwise I'd probably go insane.

[Arugula Latte]

246. Why doesn't the Vatican give away all its money to the homeless?

Isn't that "Christ's" message, after all? Why does the Vatican continue to "shit on people" and put down people who don't agree with it?

[donheld]

81. Except maybe Christians, Muslims etc.

[HEyHEY]

83. Except religious people

At least I don't inherently believe you're going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity because you don't subscribe to my beliefs.

[Goblinmonger]

86. How does this denigrate?

It is a billboard aimed at atheists. It is a campaign to encourage atheists to come out of the closet.

Sorry that somehow pisses you off.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. You're sorry? Well, I'm not.

The hissy fits amuse me to no end.

[Goblinmonger]

93. That was sarcasm.

I didn't play it very well.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

183. My not getting the sarcasm was sarcasm too.

Maybe I didn't play it very well either.

OK, let me stop before this gets too meta.

[Goblinmonger]

198. Oh, it's already meta

:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

89. People with any superiority complex such, period.

When a school "pal" learned I was Catholic, I was told "You can still be saved."

You have the lofty privilege of not being around some of the batshit nutjob religious folk (of several faiths, including Christian and Hindu), that I have--and I AM a Xtian. And yes, I've gotten some crap atitudeness from atheists and agnostics--I've also had some really wonderful discussions about the nature of faith with them--never with a fellow believer, though. :shrug:

[HEyHEY]

82. Nice! I like it!

[AmandaMae]

87. I like it. I've seen religious billboards that are way more offensive. (anti-choice, etc.)

[darkstar3]

91. Cue the tone trolls.

For those of you who believe that this billboard is over the top, offensive, or otherwise strikes the wrong tone, here is a lesson in contrast.
http://www.dangeroustalk.net/billboard-wars.html

[JNelson6563]

100. Interesting contrast

Thanks for posting that link.

[Pacifist Patriot]

107. I really do wish people would look at both pages of examples.

The contrast is quite striking.

You want to know something funny. The "Why Believe in God? Be Good for Goodness Sake" advertising generated a bunch of hate mail to the AHA of course. But guess what the primary complaint was. The copy wasn't the problem. The AHA used stock photos of African American, Asian, female, skinny, young, etc. dressed in the Santa costume. And everyone knows Santa was an elderly overweight white guy!

They were irate that the traditional image of an imaginary figure was tampered with in the ads!

[fascisthunter]

133. take a look folks

good post

[backscatter712]

136. Indeed. Just a simple statement of atheist opinion generates a storm of outrage.

What's so damned offensive about "It's not real."?

Especially in the face of scorn, nastiness, threats of Hell, occasional threats of real violence, then tell us to shut up and sit down so they can pray to their bipolar imaginary sky-daddy and lord their religion over us.

Yet they get upset when we say only the three words "It's not real."

[Pacifist Patriot]

150. A Greek Orthodox church down the street from my neighborhood has interesting signs...

One last year said:

Believe in Zeus? Neither do we. Join us on Sunday mornings to worship Jesus.

I rather suspect the irony was lost on them.


The current one says:

Fallen people in an imperfect world worshiping a perfect and holy God.

Every time I see it I just want to blurt out, "And you're okay with this?!"

[Arugula Latte]

245. That is hilarious.

Jesus is the son of God born of a desert-dwelling virgin who cuckholded Joseph w/ God. He was put to death but then he came back to life and rolled away a stone. If you believe in him you'll have eternal life. Oh, and he's coming back any day now. Yes, that all makes perfect sense and is 100 percent believable...Zeus, on the other hand, is just a tall tale. :rofl:

[RZM]

96. Not a believer and never really have been

But it's not my personal style to call someone's religion a myth, despite the fact that I might think as much. I find that kind of thing disrespectful. It's also disrespectful to insult someone's LACK of belief in a similar way -- and I've seen plenty of those billboards over the year as well. Neither represent my kind of approach, but neither cause me much consternation either.

[backscatter712]

233. There's the problem. The truth is that it IS a myth.

To be frank, I think we need to get over the ruffling of feathers that happens when religion is questioned, and at least make sure society is open enough that we can say "It's a myth." without a society-wide freakout.

Because IMHO, religion can become very dangerous - it robs people of their ability to reason, and gets them to do strange, and potentially destructive things based on nonsense. Because of religion, millions of people believe in attacking the rights of the GLBT community, for no other reason than "God thinks it's icky!" Because of religion, women all over the world are oppressed, denied opportunities, forced to wear tent-like clothing and view the world through masks with little slits. They're not allowed to control their own bodies, handle their own finances, or have anything resembling liberty. Don't think it's just those Mooslims, we used to do that here. Because of religion, many of our children are taught nonsense in schools, because the real science was declared by the guys in the funny hats to be EEEEEEEVIL!

Religion is fundamentally divisive, splits humanity into armed camps, polarizes, and demonizes.

[flpab]

101. Christ was born in July, big commerical mess now

I hate this time of year, it is all a big money making, stress inducing nightmare. We hop in the car and drive to Key West Christmas eve and stay till New Years day. Skip it all. Nothing like watching the sun set, drinking a margarita and listening to some island tunes on Christmas eve.

[lynne]

105. The most mythical aspect of the Christmas story -

- is the business about the Three Wise Men. Not possible as there is no such animal.

Subsequently, its impossible to celebrate "reason".

[patrice]

149. Funny! . . . but . . . ergo, since reason is a lie, we must accept Oppression?

since we, lacking reason, cannot govern ourselves and all . . .

[lunatica]

106. Now everybody can be a crazed radical religionist or anti-religionist stuffing their

beliefs down everyone's throats.

I really don't care what you believe in. But can you just stop trying to fucking cram it down my throat?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

109. Publically calling someone's religion/beliefs a myth is pretty lame.

doesn't matter what religion.
People should be free to believe or not believe what they want.
This smacks of 8yr old maturity/mentality.

[Pacifist Patriot]

177. Religious stories are myths.

Well-educated clergy wouldn't bother to argue against that. However, I suspect we're using the word a bit differently.

[Arugula Latte]

200. Do you feel the same way about churches that have messages on their signs?

Signs that urge people to believe, repent, whatever. Is that lame that they're implying that I'll go to hell if I don't accept their message?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

211. Let me ask, when a toddler decides to argue do you sit there are argue back?

So what if churches act childish... why act childish back?
It's the public display version of "NUH UH!"

Theists and Anti-Theists: neither really *knows* the truth but they'll argue about it like a bunch of kindergarten brats well past thier naptime. It's as entertaining as it is asinine. LOL.

[Arugula Latte]

244. There are a lot of people who only get one side. A LOT.

They are never exposed to the possibility that there is no god nor divine Jesus, etc. This is a little food for thought for them. What's wrong with that? It's not hurting anyone. It's free speech. Plus, it's a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the onslaught of religious propaganda that is pushed at us constantly (even on our frickin' money!). Why is it that the religious are allowed to spout off constantly in many different ways? We're expected to never respond because that's their "faith" and we're supposed to "respect" it, even if it is patent nonsense. If we so much as present the possibility of another view, we're patronized and considered "rude" and "childish."

I'm sick of it.

[darkstar3]

228. Explain something to me.

If I say "that's a myth", what freedom am I taking from you?

You are free to worship however you wish. I am free to say whatever I wish. That's how a free country works. Your worship is not somehow immune from my criticism, unless of course you'd like to piss all over the First Amendment.

But then again, 8-year-olds always think that freedom means they should be free from offense.

[Lucian]

254. Religious stories, by definition, are myths.

You should go back to college and take an Intro to Religion class. You'll learn that in there.

[handmade34]

110. "celebrate reason"

now that would be refreshing

[Le Taz Hot]

112. All right Joisey!

:applause:

[Nye Bevan]

113. Yes. How the heck could a red-nosed reindeer pull a sleigh, anyway.

And deliver toys to every child in the world? No way.

Clear-eyed, unsentimental reason RULES.

[backscatter712]

119. GOOD! Religion needs to be confronted.

The days of public discourse being monopolized by spreaders of Bronze Age mythology are over. The days where advocates of reason were suppressed entirely are gone.

I think Bill Maher was right in Religulous - religion must die for mankind to live. I don't want our government's leaders, who have access to vast military forces and nuclear weapons, to make decisions about war after consulting their mythology about the guy coming back from the dead and the talking snake. That's why George W. Bush put us into Iraq.

[patrice]

121. As a supporter of authentic spirituality, I approve of this message.

It provides doors into all kinds of interesting and useful semantic discourse:

- What is "know"? - give examples
- What is "Myth"? - give examples
- What is "Celebrate"? - give examples
- What is "Reason"? - give examples

Then you could do antonyms for all of those terms and eventually you'd find yourselves talking about how almost everything that religion claims to value, the good, morality, and ethics, can also be produced by reason, i.e. these traits ARE organic phenomena encoded into whatever it is that John 1:14 is referring to in ". . . and the Word was made flesh."

And that UNDERSTANDING would, indeed, be reason to celebrate.

[blondeatlast]

139. I so want to recommend this brilliant post! I've always thought that there is

something organic in our ethical makeup; so many of our "values" are common regardless of belief or lack thereof.

Cheers! :toast:

[patrice]

146. It's a BIG frakking universe inside/outside each and every one of us!

Thanks very much! :toast:

[Pacifist Patriot]

158. Fabulous post.

In my opinion, ethics based on reason have a stronger claim to altruism than ethics based on fear of damnation or a yearning for paradise.

I once got into it with someone who claimed atheists could not have "traditional" weddings and their so-called marriages would be a sham. She pretty much shut up when I asked her if she was inspired to keep faithful to her marriage vows because she was afraid of God or because she loved and respected her husband.

[patrice]

197. Precisely the point! If you have faith for any kind of reinforcer, positive or negative, that's not

faith. It's a quid pro quo. It's not the thing, like a marriage or whatever it is, for it's own sake, but for the sake of something else. And the life of Yeshua clearly, ever SO clearly, demonstrates no quid pro quo. He wouldn't have done what he did if he had had to be reinforced all of the way to the crucifixion for it. And then, THE TOMB WAS EMPTY, afterall, no one saw what happened and that is indeterminent, and to decide it was such and such, e.g. whatever religion conventionally says it means, again, seems to be the opposite of what people say they are referring to by means of the word "faith", indeterminent = indeterminent not some kind of guarantee, so . . . as Jeremiah 23 (the whole chapter) says the "word" has to be yours, your flesh on the line for truth, not someone-else's, your flesh WHATEVER the consequences. And then the story of Yeshua also adds to that: No more scapegoats/excuses. No deals for anything, not even "eternal life". Jesus showed us how to live our BEST approximations of truth for its own sake and none other. You need to actually BE free to BE that "Way", John 14:6, but, unlike Yeshua, most of us are FAR from free, though we're still supposed to be trying to BE that "Way" to truth, because that IS Life. And one of the most highly specific traits of our flesh, as that which is referred to by means of the label "human", is reason.

It all actually seems kind of rational to me. Too bad so much mumbo-jumbo has been made of it.

...........................

Sorry about all of the capitalization, but I think, especially in this day of media overload, we're becoming kind of semantically superficial, so I'm trying to drill down into what I'm referring to by emphasizing certain details of it.

[sarcasmo]

137. Kick, Kick, Kick in the Corporate Holidays A$$.

[Renew Deal]

142. They should reply with a sign that says "We KNOW athiests are going to hell."

I wonder if people would find that funny.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

157. I would. In fact, your post is funny as hell (heh) without even putting it into a billboard. -nt

[Mariana]

182. Do you really believe that those signs don't already exist?

Please.

[Renew Deal]

195. I know they exist

It would just be funny to see them side by side.

[blondeatlast]

204. You need to get out more.

I see that crap all the time. and while I am a believer and tend to Christianity, I don't claim to know what's gonna happen to anyone when they die. I've questioned my faith, rejected it for a while, then returned--but I would never claim to know the answers.

[Renew Deal]

219. Thankfully I don't see it often.

I've seen some of the religious ones, particularly down I95. Thankfully it's rare on LI.

[Pacifist Patriot]

165. Consider Humanism

http://considerhumanism.com/

I like this ad campaign that just began recently. First commercial was aired in November during a Dateline. Compares Biblical passages with humanist writings.

[patrice]

202. Thanks for this link! Will share & (pardon the pun) Merry ChristmUs!

[Pacifist Patriot]

206. Hey, in about thirty minutes this non-theist, religious humanist is going to be...

scrubbing her home so she can put up the obnoxious amount of Christmas decorations to get ready for her Holiday Open House next week. Cheers!

[patrice]

208. Have Fun, you all!

[krabigirl]

170. Love this.

[AspenRose]

171. Best comment I've seen on the subject (from an atheist) on the NYT site

“Every year, atheists get blamed for having a war on Christmas, even if we don’t do anything,” he said. “This year, we decided to give the religious right a taste of what war on Christmas looks like.”

"I am happily and staunchly atheist but I find this logic foolish and antithetical to rationalist thinking. The Christian Right makes up the “war on Christmas” which to most people across the religious spectrum comes off as crazy, paranoid, and laughable. So then an atheist group actually plays into it and tries to make the war on Christmas a reality?? The point of the holiday for most in America who celebrate it is that it’s a time of coming together, being nice to each other, community and family. The Christian Right acting against that spirit hurt their cause. Atheists actually mimicking their anger and hatred that runs counter to true rationalism; it is defensive emotionalism carrying the day over reason.

Effective social communication is based in having respect for your audience so that people across your society see your group is worthy of the same respect you accord them and look past the divisions between your groups. The Christian Right won’t do that, but the point is to reach EVERYONE ELSE. Effective social movements identify what they can build and contribute to the world (America is falling in science rankings, schools – bastions of teaching critical thinking – are failing, libraries are closing down to budget cuts – there is so much that atheist lobbying groups could actually be fixing for all in this country if they didn’t fall into this trap of symbolic tit-for-tat). Above all, effective social movements require self-discipline and restraint in their actions, their strategy, and their messaging. This entire campaign is worthless and it’s sad to see that an atheistic group is actually aping the tactics and thinking of their enemy versus doing their own. It is just poor activism."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/for-the-holidays-an-atheism-billboard/?partner=rss&emc=rss

[Pacifist Patriot]

176. I honestly do not see this as anywhere close to as obnoxious as...

the religious stuff thrown in my face. Perhaps it's the difference between being in NJ/NY rather than GA/FL?

I have been a party to policy-making decisions on whether or not atheists/humanists should advertise during the holidays and do appreciate both sides of the argument. But when it comes down to it, I see no harm in advertising. Tit for tat? No, not really. Utilizing a medium also used by religionists? Sure. Atheists/agnostics and humanists are incredibly isolated this time of year. There is comfort in knowing you are not alone.

American Atheists and the American Humanist Association have every right to get their organization's names in the public consciousness and this is probably the most cost-effective way to do it. A billboard that says, "If you doubt the existence of God, give us a call." placed along the highway in June just isn't going to do the job.

If a believer is that seriously offended by an advertisement, they might want to give some serious thought as to why they feel threatened.

[AspenRose]

240. Well

1. I agree that they have every right to do what they've done.

2. As I believer I don't feel threatened by what they've said. Many of us here who are believers aren't threatened at all.

"If you doubt the existence of God, give us a call" is not what the billboard said, however. That would have been easy enough. Instead, it was deliberately provocative and aimed at a specific group; those who have offended them in the past with over-religiosity; specifically, Christian over-religiosity (I'm waiting for a billboard about Hanukkah, Winter Solstice or Eid al-adha out of consistency, but people who are Jewish, Pagan and Muslim aren't admittedly as obnoxious as fundy Christians overall, so I won't hold my breath). So, American Atheists got what they wanted; a rise out of the people who would be offended by it. Good for them and great for the First Amendment.

But, like the person who wrote that comment said, it's everyone else they've not counted on. And not everyone who is sympathetic to their cause will appreciate the deliberate provocative nature of the statement being offered (as some atheists have voiced here).


Oh well.

[Pacifist Patriot]

248. No it is not what the billboard said because that would fall flat on atheist ears as well.

No provocative punch for either believers or non-believers.

I personally would have preferred they not use the word "myth" for reasons I've outlined elsewhere. But even so, I see nothing as offensive or more offensive than religious billboards I see every day where I live.

Believers and non-believers alike probably should be poked every once in awhile or they'll get complacent in their beliefs and not give it the attention it deserves.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

251. Maybe "You know this didn't happen"?

[gmudem]

174. Awesome.

All religions ARE myths. I don't see how this can seriously be debated.

[LanternWaste]

181. I imagine many people of many philosophies...

I imagine many people of many different types and forms of belief want to advertise (or "shove down your throat" depending on whether one agrees with the message or not) their world viewpoint.

I've rarely seen anything wrong with that, but I imagine many people do.

[bertman]

193. Religious "freedom of expression" is ONLY for those who believe in the RIGHT religion. REC. nt

[GrpCaptMandrake]

199. I sorta wish they hadn't done that

Even though I agree.

As I learned quite personally last summer, saying "myth" to a fundie is a fighting word.

Sadly, this message degrades what Joseph Campbell called "The Power of Myth." It creates a false equation between "myth" and "bad."

[Pacifist Patriot]

205. I like the underlying message, but I too wish they had chosen another word.

I really dislike that "myth" as come to mean both truth and falsehood. Gets a bit weedy, doesn't it?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

227. Indeed

And the fundies, of course, "believe" their holy book is the inerrant word of the living, breathing (yet totally invisible) Gawd. Ergo, it cannot be "myth." Myths are for uncivilized, barely literate people who don't understand the workings of a wheelbarrow. Oh, wait . . .

[LanternWaste]

217. Much like telling many people, "bless your little heart..."

"saying "myth" to a fundie is a fighting word..."

Much like telling many people, "bless your little heart..."

[Lucian]

255. The fundies are idiots.

Don't they know that EVERY religious story is a myth, by definition?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

258. No, they REALLY don't

They "believe" that it is the inerrant word of the Living God. They "believe" that it contains no contradictions. They "believe" that every word in it is LITERAL truth.

Not kidding. I'm a recovering Southern Baptist, and I grew up with that stuff.

[Arugula Latte]

201. Celebrate Reason This Season

Love. It.
:thumbsup:

[valerief]

209. Great billboard!!!! nt

[callous taoboy]

212. Right on! Keep Satan in Santa.

The Bill-bots in this town of 10,000 run around with their "Keep Christ in Christmas" bumper stickers. I would put a "Keep Satan in Santa" sticker on my car but I just had it re-painted.

[Owl]

249. Excellent.

[onager]

250. This nails it perfectly...

In fact, I may have to save a copy of this for future theft reference.

November 30, 2010 2:16 PM

GvlGeologist, FCD @ #47: I also live in the South (well, Florida, which is kind of the South) and any time I drive on major roads, I see multiple billboards lauding the sanctity of the savior, or anti-abortion billboards from an explicitly xtian viewpoint, etc., etc. How is this billboard different, as a source of information (the AA website is listed on the billboard) and, frankly, atheistic propaganda?


phantomreader42: A common question. It comes up every single time an atheist billboard is mentioned. How IS the American Atheists billboard any different from the countless christian billboards all over every stretch of highway in the country?

Well, first, there is only one copy of this atheist billboard that I know of, and it's several hundred miles from my home. In contrast, there are many hundreds if not thousands of christian billboards in my home state alone. Other atheist billboards exist, but they are few and far between. I have never seen one driving down the roads of Georgia or Alabama in over a decade. The christian billboards I see every time I hit the Interstate.

Secondly, the atheist billboard does not call for or celebrate the never-ending torture of billions of human beings. In fact, it does not demand, request, endorse, or even mention any harm of any kind to any living thing, human or otherwise. In contrast, christian billboards have been known to demand the jailing or murder of homosexuals, the subjugation of women, the slaughter of non-christians, and the unending brutal torture of anyone not paying proper fealty to the invisible man in the sky. And they not only call for such atrocities, but treat such brutality as the highest moral duty.

Third, this billboard by the American Atheists does not declare or demand official endorsement from the government of the United States of America. It does not claim that this is an atheist nation, or treat non-atheists as undeserving of citizenship. Christian billboards frequently make the false claim that this nation was founded for the puprose of promoting the christian cult, or demand that christian religious beliefs be enforced by law.

Fourth, this billboard does not engage in libel, slander, incitement to violence, malicious misrepresentation, character assassination, or fraud. Christians often put up ads that make the false claim that non-christians are immoral, criminals, less than human, or engaged in vast conspiracies to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.

So, there's just a few examples of how this billboard is different. That wasn't so hard, was it?

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/11/get_over_yourselves_timid_athe.php#comments

[Pacifist Patriot]

256. I like it.

[Lucian]

253. That is the greatest billboard in the history of billboards.