The Federal Employee Pay Freeze, And Why YOU Might Just Want To Give A Shit !!!

[WillyT]

The Public Employee Unions (I work for the State of California) are the last big target in the quest to finishing off the Unions. Teachers were/are the second to last and they have recently had their eyes opened wide.

It started with Reagan and PATCO, and this is Wall Street's and the Right's mega-wetdream!

If you think your future labor worth, bargaining power, benefit package is going to be enhanced by these moves, you are SADLY MISTAKEN!!!

:mad::nuke::mad:

BTW - Does anybody know if the Congress and the President are having THEIR salaries frozen??? I'd really love to know.

:shrug:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

1. First, I am a federal employee who is a member of the union. Unfortunately

the union has no bargaining power over salaries. They may be able to negotiate after the freeze is put in place, but that's highly doubtful.

Second, to the credit of Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats in the House, there have been no increase in Congressional salaries for the last year. I think there's another request to freeze pay again this year.

[hfojvt]

29. Wait until January

According to the last Amendment to the Constitution, no Congressional Pay raise can take effect until after an election. I will be surprised if they do not get one.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

62. Yep. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Republicans voted to raise their salaries.

Their audacity is unlimited. Why Americans aren't up in arms is crazy to me. Luckily Obama has the veto pen, should that kind of thing make it through the House. (It probably won't get through the Senate, which renders the veto threat moot.)

[MichiganVote]

2. Oh hey now...you know we little people are just dying to get fucked up again.

[elleng]

3. Agree or not, this is NOT a big deal,

has happened before, and is one of the few quick steps a potus can take. IMO its a necessary, symbolic move Prez O can make at this time.

(P.S., I am a retired U.S. employee, and my husband is a fed now.)

[WillyT]

6. Well Then... As Soon As They Use Clawback To Take Wall Street Bonuses And Profits For The Deficit...

I'll sign on... until then, I'll give anybody supporting this my middle finger!

:shrug:

[elleng]

9. And eat your young.

smart

:sarcasm:

:thumbsdown:

[WillyT]

19. So... You're A Trickle Downer ???

As long as the rich keep scraping us some crumbs, you're ok with that???


Please sir, may I have some more?

NO... we fought, bled, and died too much to go back there.

NO.

:mad:

[elleng]

20. Not into reason or logic, eh? Prefer ad hominem? Highly constructive.

[WillyT]

25. Well Your Post (#9) Was A Tad Obtuse...

Care to spell it out, so the rest of us can understand ???

:shrug:

[elleng]

26. 'give anybody supporting this my middle finger'

not a constructive response, imo.

[WillyT]

28. Well Please... Show Me The Errors Of My Ways...

I'll put away my middle finger, if you can tell me why that shouldn't be my response.

Other that "politeness".

Why should we support our President's call for this?

Hmm...

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

32. How much money do you make?

[WillyT]

35. NOYFB !!!

Although it can be found online.

Why do you ask?

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

40. That would be the first step.

I make $15,000 a year for a part-time job. From where I sit a GS-9 is pretty rich, and a GS-12 is definitely rich. If they don't get a COLA, that really does not concern me. Secondly, AFAIK, they are still getting their automatic step increases. Here's the chart

http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/indexGS.asp

A GS-9.1 makes $19.92 an hour. After a year, they get a step increase to GS-9.2 or 20.58 per hour. That's a 3.3% increase that I am not gonna get at my job. A GS-12.1 makes $28.88 per hour and a GM-14.1 makes 40.58 per hour.

I am not getting a raise at my ouwn job, why should I be particularly concerned if they don't get increases?

[WillyT]

42. "... why should I be particularly concerned if they don't get increases?"

For the same reason that almost NO Union members get paid minimum wage. Yet it was the Unions that made sure minimum wage laws got passed.

If these guys can knock down the fairly well compensated/benefited job holders, what do you think is gonna happen to your $15,000 a year job?

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

50. yawn, so they created the minimum wage law 70 years ago

What have they done for me lately?

The pain is gonna trickle down? It already has for the people who have lost their jobs, and I am not getting a COLA either.

I cannot work up lots of concern for the minor problems of those who are lots better off than I am.

Although I might compare the $2 billion saved to the $18 billion in tax cuts going to the richest 400 Americans EVERY Year.

[WillyT]

55. "... so they created the minimum wage law 70 years ago"... Said The Man Standing On A...

rickety decaying system that used to ensure some sort of fairness.

By your theory... that $15,000 is gonna look better and better as time goes on.

I DO NOT WANT that future. And neither do you.

:shrug:

[nashville_brook]

46. you can't compare PT time wages to FT wages -- moreover, this low tide is going to strand YOUR boat

along with everyone else's. it won't make your situation any better. it'll make it worse.

[hfojvt]

51. I cannot compare myself to a CEO either

and yet we do that all the time.

True, it is not gonna stimulate the economy, but if it is a choice between $2 billion for highly paid government workers and LiHeap then I am gonna go with LiHeap. And Headstart. And school lunches.

[Arctic Dave]

7. If it is no big deal then why doesn't the military get the freeze also?

[WillyT]

10. It's Gotta Be One Of Those 3-Dimensional Chess Moves...

Can't wait for the Jujitsu to ensue!

:banghead:

[elleng]

12. Different category of 'employee.' Think about it,

and recognize military pay scale is way below civilian fed pay scale.

[Arctic Dave]

13. Are you fed, housed, clothed and medical?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

22. Are you putting your life on the line every day?

Are you separated from your family for long stretches of time?

[Arctic Dave]

59. Everyday someone wakes up there is possibility of harm.

As for being away from home, in the last twenty two years I have been away from home more then half the time. That is eleven years, more years then if a soldier has been deployed since 2001. Not any sympathy from me for being away.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

60. Are you seriously comparing civilian life to that of a soldier on the front line?

I certainly don't live in daily fear of suicide bombers, IEDs or snipers, and neither do you.

[Arctic Dave]

72. And they get paid extra for it already.

Also, not all soldiers are on the "front lines", some just sit on their collective asses eating doughnuts.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

74. And they deserve extra pay for what they do.

Also, not all soldiers are on the "front lines", some just sit on their collective asses eating doughnuts.

Proof? The "laziest" soldier is still doing a hell of a lot more than complaining on a message board.

[Arctic Dave]

75. Really? Apparently you have never been in the military to make such a laughable statement.

Do you know what "skater marks" are?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

76. I never claimed to be in the military.

But I count military personnel among my friends and colleagues, so I'll take their word and their sacrifice over your keyboard commando whining any day.

How sad your life must be to even equate the risks of civilian life with that of uniformed soldiers.

[Arctic Dave]

78. Hero worshiper. Everyone has some type of fetish.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

81. So appreciating the military is now a "fetish"?

You are truly an idiot. I bet you haven't sacrificed anything a day in your life.

[Arctic Dave]

82. Let me guess, next you are going to say that because of our heros it allows me to say these things.

Just because someone wants to sign up to play GI Joe doesn't mean I have to give them more respect then the next person. I'll save that distinction on an individual basis. If you wish to fawn all over them because of a uniform then knock yourself out.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

83. Then I don't want to hear you complain about withdrawing troops.

Since you obviously don't give a shit about those serving, wanting to keep them safe from harm would be extremely hypocritical coming from you.

Have a nice life.

[Arctic Dave]

84. I'll go one further, not only do I want them withdrawn, and you are right

not because I am extremely worried about them but because they shouldn't be there in the first place, I would like to see half of the MIC dismantled completely.

[hfojvt]

37. I don't think that last line is true

particularly not with officers. When I worked for DOD, I was a GS-7 potential 12 and my supervior was a Captain. Thw Captain and the Lieutenants that I worked with made lots more money than I did.

Unfortunately though, the military is a sacred cow in present-day America. To suggest that their pay be frozen would be the political equivalent of cutting your throat. Especially with the war going on.

[Hawkowl]

61. "Politcally cutting your throat"

Well then, you are saying we can expect Obama to offer a military pay freeze as well? To go along with demonizing teachers' unions and cutting social security?

I truly believe, Obama has no interest in a second term.

[FLyellowdog]

4. Patco is now Natca...new union.nt

[iamtechus]

5. Traditionally, government wages and benefits have been considered the standard.

If they are cut, believe me, private employees will be hurt.

[WillyT]

8. Exactly !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

14. Exactly. This is a big deal for just that reason (and the union-busting too). nt

[crazyjoe]

53. well, that's the stupidest thing i have read or heard all day

[Taverner]

11. I know what this will mean: thousands will leave the Federal Government

They'll say 'f this!' and head to the private sector, never to be seen again

This will be the final straw on the camel's back

[Safetykitten]

16. This is the most delusional post in months. Private sector...

they would flee to the private sector. As what?

The goverment now pays BETTER than the private sector and you get benefits with a never get fired policy.

[Taverner]

21. Well, in the only market I know, IT, they are jumping off en masse

They can make much more for their skills in the Bay Area for their skills

As a result, Government IT is horrible

Now you can sit there and make fun of me, or you can actually think for a change. What will it be??? Hmmmm....

[Scruffy1]

57. This is a right wing false hood

If you compare job to job the feds pay about 22% less according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Because most of the lower paid jobs are contracted out the average pay is higher. We are talking scientists, judges, doctors. and many other professionals. And of course you can be fired.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. How is a pay freeze the final straw?

And federal workers typically get better pay and benefits than most civilians.

[Taverner]

24. And that's actually a MYTH

They don't get better pay - anymore

In IT for the State and Fed level, the pay is 75% of what the private sector will pay

[taught_me_patience]

79. Are you including the pensions that allow them to retire at 50yo

with salary for life? If you annuitized the average pension, it's probably worth $3M. California state pensions are completely ridiculous.

[treestar]

33. That'll open up some jobs for the unemployed then

This sounds crazy given the rate of unemployment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Yes, especially since there are so many jobs available

:eyes:

[earth mom]

15. Steal our Social Security, Cut Union Workers Pay, Endless Wars, the Rich Keep Their Tax Cuts

Did Bush & Co EVER leave office?!!! :grr:


And still people don't get it that we are ALL being screwed over! :argh:

[sarcasmo]

30. You nailed it Earth MOM, no difference, why don't we freeze the endless wars that would solve the

budget quickly.

[muffin1]

67. +1,000,000

WTF is wrong with people? A race to the bottom!! :woohoo: All so the richer can get richer!! :woohoo: And by looking around here, Dems are fine with helping to screw the poor and middle-class!! :woohoo:

[dana_b]

77. agree

Some people are still asleep. It's more comfortable that way.

[earth mom]

17. Steal our Social Security, Cut Union Workers Pay, Endless Wars, the Rich Keep Their Tax Cuts

Did Bush & Co EVER leave office?!!! :grr:


And still people don't get it that we are ALL being screwed over! :argh:

[NNN0LHI]

18. When they came after my union years ago I said you guys will be next

Everyone was like, "I am too busy bragging up my Honda to worry about your union."

Now the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?

We must hang together or assuredly we shall hang separately. -- Benjamin Franklin

Don

[WillyT]

27. For Me...

All my life somebody in our family has worked for the State of California.

My dad was part of the old Highway Commission that built the Interstates here in CA.

But after I received my college diploma, I was told by well meaning friends back then, that I was a fool for getting a job with the state.

I was told I could make FAR MORE MONEY going into private industry with my skills, diploma, and personality.

Now I bought into this for several years... but now that I'm there...

It reminds me of the story about the tortoise and the hare.

Everybody was betting on the hare (they're well known for their speed = private industry), and nobody was betting on the tortoise (they just slowly plod along = government work),and lo and behold...

all those people snickering at those of us in the slow and plodding field, are now criticizing us for having better jobs than they...

Who'd have thunk THAT ???

:shrug:

[glitch]

36. And they're blind to how craven it all is.

I've learned my lesson: never trust anyone who admires Reagan.

[Raschel]

34. And hasn't so much of the reduction of our standard of living due to envy or apathy.

I know that most conservative hated the wages that union members were making. Hope they are happy that most production has been outsourced.

They cut off their noses to spite their faces.

[WillyT]

38. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:hi:

[treestar]

31. Sorry if you complained about the COLA, no complaints allowed on this

and it has nothing to do with trying to suppress the poor unions. where would they be without the Department of Labor, for instance? Without remedy.

[WillyT]

39. I'm Sorry... What Does That Even Mean ???

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

66. If you think union labor has no recourse without the Dept. of Labor, well...

:rofl:

[senseandsensibility]

41. KICK!

Go, Willy!

[swilton]

43. Civil Service Employees Who Are Excepted Service Fields

(intelligence) do not have unions....for obvious reasons.

[Starry Messenger]

44. k&r

[Octafish]

45. 30 More Years!

Of Trickle-Down.

Joe Sestak, without a co-sponsor, introduced a congressional pay freeze.

Doubt it's getting anywhere.

[yurbud]

48. Send Washington a simple message: Austerity for ASSHOLES on Wall Street who caused the problem!

[WillyT]

49. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:hi:

[crazyjoe]

52. sorry, still don't give a shit.

[WillyT]

56. Well Hey... Thanks For Pitchin In...

Good to know we can count on you in a pinch.

Or... whatever...

:shrug:

:banghead:

:wtf:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nessa]

54. As for the president, it's been frozen since 2001..

Last raise before that was 1969.

"In September 1999, President Clinton signed legislation that increased the presidential salary to $400,000, effective January 2001. The Constitution prohibits pay raises for sitting presidents. This presidential pay raise was the first since 1969, when the president's salary was raised from $100,000 to $200,000. Adjusted for inflation, $200,000 in 1969 would be worth $930,232 today. On top of the salary and expense accounts, both the U.S. president and vice president are given free housing with plenty of amenities".

[Obamanaut]

58. Link re congress salary ->

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/another-zero-pay-incre... /

<snip> And now there will be no pay raise for House or Senate members next year, either. The House passed H.R. 5146 by a vote of 402 to 15 on April 27, and the Senate approved the measure by unanimous consent the following day. President Obama signed the brief bill into law without ceremony on May 14. It states that there will be no "adjustment" to the pay of House or Senate members during fiscal 2011, despite the law that would otherwise provide for a cost of living adjustment in line with inflation.

[Township75]

63. I'm not indifferent to your struggle, but...

you arguement was hardly moving and I still don't give a shit about Fed employee wages being frozen.

[AndrewP]

64. It's just another in a long line of steps to strip the middle class n/t

[SidDithers]

65. You don't know that the Presidential salary has been the same since 2001?...

Has your salary been frozen since 2001?

Sid

[TBF]

68. Many people are lucky if they even have jobs, or haven't taken a cut in salary -

so you're not going to see alot of tears shed for Obama with his $400,000./yr salary.

[SidDithers]

69. And rightfully so...

but the OP was questioning whether the President and Congress would be freezing their wages this year.

I was merely pointing out that the President has had wages frozen for much longer than the OP.

I agree with you, that many people are lucky if they have jobs or haven't taken a salary rollback. That's why I don't think federal employees who will have wages frozen for 2 years deserve many tears either.

Sid

Edit: typo

[TBF]

70. I have to admit I don't know the average federal worker salary -

I will have to hunt that down. It's a little easier for executive level folks to live with a salary freeze than low income folks.

I think what we are seeing is all out class-warfare on a global scale. The over-riding question is whether we agree philosophically with most of the world living in poverty while the top couple of thousand live in extreme luxury. In the middle of the last century we actually had something of a middle class in this country, but that is quickly shattering.

What I don't know is whether workers will rise up in all countries to fight back. They are in Europe, but no telling if that will happen in the US.

I'm convinced it will eventually happen, and socialism (in some form) will be the new global approach. Probably not in my lifetime but I would think evolution will get us there eventually.

[malaise]

71. Excellent post

I suggest that everyone starts reading about the MOUs and freezes shoved at government workers across the globe. The neo-liberals are laughing even as their model crashed.

[peace13]

73. All bets are off for wages in this country.

Many people have taken pay cuts year after year here. As a small business owner I can tell you that corporations rewrite contracts and then renegotiate. After that they come to you for a 15% discount. So you can see that many of us are out here dealing with something that it appears those in the public sector were unaware of or didn't care about. Take a two year freeze, it certainly isn't the first time this has happened. Technically you are already ahead of the game. Be happy if it stops there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. The President cut salaries of advisors

And the Congress has authority on it's own...fat chance they will. Oh and they also have authority over pay fr both the President and Veep.

[Rex]

86. I watched pensions disappear and more then one person lose

their livelihood when their 401k tanked. I've tried to warn my friends in the education field, but they act as if the teachers union in Texas is untouchable. Truly this time period will be remembered as the wealthy class shooting the working poor like fish in a barrel OR Dick Cheney and a 'friendly' lawyers out hunting, ouch.