Top Secret

[H2O Man]

“In our comprehensive reviewing of published, academically accepted history we continually explore for the invisible power structure behind visible kings, prime ministers, czars, emperors, presidents, and other official head men, as well as for the underlying, hidden causes of individual wars and the long, draw-out campaigns not disclosed by the widely published and popularly accepted causes of these wars.”
R. Buckminster Fuller; Critical Path


Richard Buckminster Fuller (1895 – 1983) was an American engineer and inventor, as well influential thinker. He wrote “Critical Path” two years before his death. It was considered by many at the time to be a confirmation of the concerns of the “flower children” of the 1960s, and the environmentalists of the '70s. It's a book that is of great value today, for residents of the democratic left.

A central theme, as noted in the above quote, is that there are powerful forces behind the curtains, that pull the strings on government officials in all of the countries that are known as the “developed world.” This is not a new concept, of course; in his book “JFK” (1992), retired US Air Force Colonal L. Fletcher Prouty compares Fuller's “invisible power structure” to Winston Churchill's “High Cabal.”

In all of these descriptions of “shadow governments,” a distinct set of details holds true. First, the powers involved hold to the theory of “discovery” that propelled colonialism: if the agents of these powers locates valuable resources in foreign, “less developed” lands, these resources become the “real property” of the power group. They will access them, either through the trade terms they dictate, or by absolute force.

Second, they subscribe to the population theories of Malthus, meaning that there are a limited amount of specific, valuable resources, and that the growth in human population will result in there not being enough of these resources to go around. This, of course, brings up the question of who will get access to needed resources, and who will not.

Their third theory is known as social Darwinism. In other words, the survival of the fittest. If we were to look at but one example in current US society – the business with Wall Street – it should be apparent who these people believe have the right to the largest share of financial resources, as well as who is not. Another example – that of the republicans in Congress approach to unemployment insurance and Social Security benefits – illustrates that the obedient puppets of the shadowy forces running our country are willing to cause suffering for the masses, in order to promote large “tax breaks” for the obscenely wealthy.

Their fourth doctrine involves Heisenberg's theory of indeterminacy. As Prouty wrote, they believe that God throws the cosmic dice, and that it is their duty to take care of their own. It would be too risky to attempt to look out for “common folk.” And, after all, they see “lesser people” as just another resource to exploit.

Within the large group, that High Cabal, are many sub-groups. Some are national interests, though most are now multi-national. There are alliances between some groups, and competition between others. This current release of “secret government documents” clearly illustrates this reality. (It amazes me that anyone would be even mildly surprised that the State Department fronts for US intelligence agencies. In light of the events of the Plame scandal, the role of employees of US embassies should be obvious. Anyone familiar with international events in the 1960s already knew this, of course. Competition for resources has always been as underhanded as it was stiff.)

As national and international economies have shifted in recent decades, people in the United States have faced a changing economy. This includes employment options, as industries move their means of production to other less developed countries, in order to exploit human resources for cheaper wages. The standard of life that defined middle class America is far less common today.

Other sources of power around the globe are becoming less willing to provide the majority of their natural resources for American's consumption. There are obviously numerous exceptions, in the sense that Americans can go to Wal Mart for inexpensive items. But there is a larger shift taking place, which is more significant than that twenty dollar pair of sneakers.

Yet we continue to look to “our” government for answers. Now, I firmly believe that the average democrat in Washington is far more concerned that any republican, in terms of the welfare of the shrinking middle class, and growing lower economic class. I do not think that can be debated. What I do question, and think everyone on the democratic left needs to question, is if the machine in DC can produce for the good of the majority of citizens – or is it restricted to producing for the benefit of that High Cabal?

I suspect that the way each individual answers that defines the manner in which they decide to be politically and socially active. Or inactive.

Peace,
H2O Man

[DainBramaged]

1. "I firmly believe that the average democrat in Washington is far more concerned "

Only a handful, sorry to burst the bubble.

[H2O Man]

7. Fair enough.

Accurate enough, too. Thanks.

[leveymg]

2. The Clovis Point was the ICBM of 35,000 years ago. Those who had it ate those who didn't.

Nothing's changed. That's why we are willing to go to so such seemingly insane, genocidal lengths to keep (some of) those who don't from getting them.

You ask about double-standards, and why the Reagan/Bush regime were willing to overlook Pakistan (the Saudis) getting the bomb, and why the Truman/Kennedy/Johnson Administrations before that looked the other way as Israel borrowed and stole theirs, that's a question of oil, gold, and global strategy not for the "little people", like you and me, to worry ourselves about.

So, buy your $20 sneakers - they won't be so cheap next year.

[H2O Man]

8. Genesee

The photo is of a pair of Genesee spear points, which are found in Middle to Lare Archaic sites. The contexts they are found in -- both the Laurentian and Frontenac manifestations -- radiocarbon date between 2980 and 1723 BC.

They are part of a larger "broad point" culture that had roots in the Tennessee area. They are related to the various Lehigh Broad Points. Here is a photo of a Kays Stemmed, of material from Tennessee:



It is solid evidence of how far trade went in that early period!

Below is an example of one of the Lehigh points, which I found with the two Genesee points:



And here are some of my paleo-era Clovis and related artifacts:












The broad points are from an interesting period of time. The ancestors of what we know today as the Cherokee were part of the large ethnic group that became the Onondaga; some traveled south to become the Susquehannock, and others went further south to become Cherokee. At the same time, some people and technology of the mid-Atlantic seaboard states moved north; one segment eventually headed west, and became part of the Woodland Sioux.

There is no evidence of these transfusions of populations and technology created hostilities or lead to any violence. Exactly the opposite, in fact.

In a way, this is perhaps more related to my OP from a couple of days ago. But in my own mind, my last two OPs are as closely related as the two Genesee points. The two in the OP have a significance that any Traditional persopn, from Tennessee to NYS to the Dakotas, will understand.

[Swamp Rat]

12. I've found points like those in S. Mississippi too.

In one of my archaeology courses a few of us learned how to make them (though, not very well). It takes years of practice. ;)

[H2O Man]

23. That would be

what is known generally as the Gulf Central region. I'm not as familiar with that as the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions. But, I would venture a guess that they were either Savannah River points, or one of the "local" variants.

I know that there is an even older type in the Gulf Central area, that is similar to one of the Kirk types, though not quite as old.

Flint knapping takes a long time to master, for sure.

[grasswire]

3. the Hegelian philosophy is part of this.

There's much available on the Internet to explain the Hegelian theory inherent in The Powers That Be, but the following paragraph suits our needs here:

"Hegel's theory is basically that mankind is merely a series of constant philosophical conflicts. Hegel was an idealist who believed that the highest state of mankind can only be attained through constant ideological conflict and resolution. The rules of the dialectic means mankind can only reach its highest spiritual consciousness through endless self-perpetuating struggle between ideals, and the eventual synthesizing of all opposites. Hegel's dialectic taught all conflict takes man to the next spiritual level. But in the final analysis, this ideology simply justifies conflict and endless war. It is also the reasoning behind using military power to export an illogical version of freedom and false democratic ideals."

google "hegel malthus skull & bones" for links to many absorbing commentaries

[H2O Man]

9. Many thanks!

A much appreciated contribution to this thread!

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Interesting, thank you! n/t

[rhett o rick]

34. I have just been studying Hegel. I believe that "the powers" allowed Obama to become president

instead of extending the Bush/Cheney reign, because of Hegel's teachings. The Power decided that the masses were getting restless and by giving them Obama for 4 years they can demonstrate how much better the Bush Organization is for the country. By allowing Obama to be president and assuring he fail, they hope to kill some of our reserve.

[Hannah Bell]

38. dupe

[Hannah Bell]

39. Hegel was attempting to explain reality & historical/spiritual/human evolution,

not to "teach" "the powers" to manipulate events.

that take on him comes from the right. he's one of their uber-demons. possibly because he strongly influenced marx.

[robertpaulsen]

4. Recommended! I wish more people would talk about "the machine".

I believe the machine is restricted to producing for the benefit of the High Cabal - more now than ever. While I believe the Democrats are far more concerned about actually being a government "of the people, for the people and by the people", their ability to represent is restrained by continuing to operate within an economic infrastructure (Globalization) that has no future. I addressed some of these concerns in my blog post http://americanjudas.blogspot.com/2010/02/primal-forces-of-nature-vs-real-primal.html">The Primal Forces of Nature vs. The Real Primal Forces of Nature. Eventually, the constraints of civilization's dependence on finite resources within an economy predicated on infinite growth will affect everyone - including the High Cabal.

[H2O Man]

10. "1983"

" 'The machine that we built
would never save us' that's what they say."
-- Jimi Hendrix; 1983 (A Mermaid I Should Turn to Be)


An employee of any corporation can ONLY create that which its machines produce. The idea that the "tax breaks" for the filthy rich will be extended is but one example of this. The on-going US military activities in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and parts of the African continent are others.

Who benefits? Who suffers? The answers are obvious to anyone who has not had their brain numbed by the social novocaine that has been administered to our culture.

[mmonk]

5. The forces or Cabal you speak of have to continually be challenged

and pushed back because their power of influence due to money and greed is greater and their ability or inability to completely control our lives ulimately comes down to us and our resolve. Fighting them is a no choice situation.

[bleever]

6. "Continuity of government".

The question is, government of, by, and for whom?

[grasswire]

11. kick for an important OP

Question Authority!

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The Enclosure Acts and what happened in England

Invluding the rise of beggary is instructive, as well as the elite response.

The social contract is now broken...

[OneGrassRoot]

16. A new social contract....

Here is one proposed by the Network of Spiritual Progressives. I'm curious what DUers think, even non-spiritual DUers?

http://www.spiritualprogressives.org/article.php/2010062306243316

(NSP requests this be circulated in its entirety, and for people to sign, at link)

ESRA: Environmental and Social Responsibility Amendment to the US Constitution

The intent of the framers of this Amendment is to:

a. Protect the planet and its inhabitants from environmentally destructive economic arrangements and behavior, and to increase environmental responsibility on the part of all corporations and government bodies.

b. Increase U.S. citizens’ democratic control over American economic and political institutions and ensure that all people, regardless of income, have the same electoral clout and power to shape policies and programs.

c. Promote the well-being of citizens of the United States by recognizing that our well-being depends on the well-being of the planet and all its inhabitants, which in turn requires an end to poverty, wars, and violence, and the rise of a new global ethic of genuine caring and mutual interdependence.


Article One: The Pro-Democracy Clause


A. The First & Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution shall apply only to human beings, and not corporations, limited liability associations, and other artificial entities created by the laws of the United States.

B. Money or other currency shall not be considered a form of speech within the meaning of the First Amendment to the Constitution, and its expenditure is subject to regulation by the Congress and by the legislatures of the several States.

C. Congress shall regulate the amount of money used to disseminate ideas or shape public opinion in any federal election in order to assure that all major points of view regarding issues and candidates receive equal exposure to the greatest extent possible. Congress shall fund all major candidates for the House, Senate and Presidency in all major elections and in primaries for the nomination for president of major parties (those which have obtained at least 5% of the vote in the last election for president).

D. In the three months prior to any election for a federal position, all media or any other means of mass communication reaching more than 300,000 people shall provide equal time to all major presidential candidates to present their views for at least an hour at least once a week, and equal time once every two weeks for congressional candidates during that media agency’s prime time. The candidates shall determine the form and content of that communication. Print media reaching more than 300,000 people shall provide equal space in the news, editorial, or most frequently read section of the newspaper or magazine or blog site or other means of communications which may be developed in the future. During the three months prior to an election, no candidate, no political party, and no organization seeking to influence public policy may buy time in any media or form of mass communication or any other form of mass advertising including on the Internet. Major candidates shall be defined as:

a. those who have at least 5% of support as judged by the average of at least ten independent polling firms, at least two of which are selected by the candidates deemed "not major," 3 months before any given election,

b. or any candidate who can collect the signatures of 5% of the number of people who voted in the election for that office the last time that office was contested in an election. These petitions can only be signed by people eligible to vote in the relevant electoral districts. Every state shall develop similar provisions aimed at allowing candidates for the governor and state legislatures to be freed from their dependence on wealthy donors or corporations.


Article Two: Corporate Environmental and Social Responsibility


A. Every citizen of the United States and every organization chartered by the U.S. or any of its several states shall have a responsibility to promote the ethical, environmental, and social well-being of all life on the planet Earth and on any other planet or in Space with which humans come into contact.

This being so, corporations chartered by the Congress and by the several States shall demonstrate the ethical, environmental, and social impact of their proposed activities at the time they seek permission to operate.

In addition, any corporation with gross receipts in excess of $100 million shall obtain a new corporate charter every five years, and this charter shall be granted only if the corporation can prove a satisfactory history of environmental, social, and ethical responsibility to a grand jury of ordinary citizens chosen at random from the voting rolls of the community in which the primary activities of the corporation take place, or, if there is dispute between stakeholders and the corporation on where those primary activities take place, then in Washington, D.C.
Factors to be considered by the grand jury in determining whether a corporation will be granted a charter shall include but not be limited to:


1. The degree to which the products produced or services provided are beneficial rather than destructive to the planet and its oceans, forests, water supplies, land, and air, and the degree to which its decisions help ensure that the resources of the earth are available to future generations.


2. The degree to which it pays a living wage to all its employees and the employees of any contractors with which it does business either in the US or abroad, and arranges its pay scale such that none of its employees or contractors or members of its board of directors or officers of the corporation earn (in direct and indirect benefits combined) more than ten times the wages of its lowest full-time wage earners; the degree to which it provides equal benefits including health care, child care, retirement pensions, sick pay, and vacation time to all employees; and the degree to which its employees enjoy satisfactory safety and health conditions; and the degree to which it regularly adopts and uses indicators of its productivity and success which include factors regarding human well-being, satisfaction and participation in work, and involvement in community service by its employees and members of its top management and board of directors;


3. The degree to which it supports the needs of the communities in which it operates and in which its employees live, including the degree to which it resists the temptation to move assets or jobs to other locations where it can pay workers less or provide weaker environmental and worker protections.
4. The degree to which it encourages significant democratic participation by all its employees in corporate decision making; the degree to which it discloses to its employees and investors and the public its economic situation, the factors shaping its past decisions, and its attempts to influence public discourse, and the degree to which it follows democratic procedures internally


5. The degree to which it treats its employees, its customers, and the people and communities in which it operates with adequate respect and genuine caring for their well-being, and rewards its employees to the extent that they engage in behaviors that manifest genuine caring, respect, kindness, generosity, and ethical and environmentally sensitive practices.


6. The degree to which its investment decisions enhance and promote the economic, social, and ethical welfare and physical & mental health and well-being of the communities in which its products may be produced, sold, or advertised and/or the communities from which it draws raw materials.

7. When assessing the environmental and social responsibility of banks, stock markets, investment firms and other corporations whose activities include the lending or investing of monies, in addition to the issues 1-6 above, the jury should also consider: the degree to which the financial institutions direct the flow of money to socially and/or envrionmentally useful activities, including non-profits serving the most disadvantaged of the society and including the financing of local business cooperatives and local community banks and to support low-income and middle income housing with affordable mortgages, rather than directing the money to speculators in finance, real estate, or other commercial activities; the degree to which it forgives loans previously given to poverty stricken countries; the degree to which it engages in misleading advertising or hides the costs of its services in small print or engages in aggressive marketing of monies for loans or preys on the most economically vulnerable; the degree to which it offers no-interest loans to those with incomes below the mean average income in the society; and the degree to which it seeks to fund directly socially useful projects and small businesses.

In making these determinations, the jury shall solicit testimony from the corporation's board of directors, from its employees, and from its stakeholders (those whose lives have been impacted by the operations of the corporation) around the US and around the world. The U.S. government shall supply funds to provide adequate means for the jury to do its investigations, to hire staff to do relevant investigations, and to compensate jurors at a level comparable to the mean average of income in the region in which the deliberations of the jury takes place, or at the level of their current income, whichever is higher.

If the grand jury is not satisfied with the level of environmental, social, and ethical responsibility, it may put the corporation on probation and prescribe specific changes needed. If after three more years the jury is not satisfied that those changes have been adequately implemented, the jury may assign control of the board and officers of the corporation to non-management employees of the corporation and/or to its public stakeholders and/or to another group of potential corporate directors and managers who seem most likely to successfully implement the changes required by the jury, but with the condition that this new board must immediately implement the changes called for by the jury within two years time, or else the jury can reassign control of the corporation to another group of potential board members.

B Any government office or project receiving government funds that seeks to engage ln a contract (with any other corporation or limited liability entity) involving the expenditure of over $100,000 (adjusted annually for inflation) shall require that those who apply to fulfill that contract submit an Environmental and Social Responsibility Impact Report to assess the applicant’s corporate behavior in regard to the factors listed above in point A of Article II. Community stakeholders and non-supervisory employees may also submit their own assessment by filling out the Environment and Social Responsibility Impact Report. Contracts shall be rewarded to the applicant with the best record of environmental and social responsibility that can also satisfactorily fulfill the other terms of the contract.

Article Three: The Positive Requirement to Enhance Human Community and Environmental Sustainability


A. Earth being the natural and sacred home of all its peoples, Congress shall develop legislation to enhance the environmental sustainability of human communities and the planet Earth, and shall present a report annually to the American people on progress made during the previous year in ameliorating any conditions deemed by an independent group of scientists to be adverse to the planet’s long-term environmental welfare. The objectives of such legislation shall include but not be limited to alleviating global warming, reducing all forms of pollution, restoring the ecological balance of the oceans, and assuring the well-being of all forests and animal life. The President of the United States shall have the obligation to enforce such legislation and to develop executive policies to assure the carrying out of its objectives.


B. In order to prepare the people of the United States to live as environmentally and socially responsible citizens of the world, and to recognize that our own well being as citizens of the United States depends upon the well being of everyone else on Earth and the well being of this planet itself, every educational institution receiving federal funds whether directly or through the several states, shall provide education in reading, writing and basic arithmetic, and appropriate instruction including at least one required course for all its students per year per grade level from kindergarten through 12th grade, and in any college receiving funding or financial aid or loan guarantees for its students, in:

1. the skills and capacities necessary to develop a caring society manifesting love, generosity, kindness, caring for each other and for the earth, joy, rational and scientific thinking, non-violence, celebration, thanksgiving, forgiveness, humility, compassion, ethical and ecological sensivity, appreciation of humanity’s rich multicultural heritage as expressed in literature, art, music, religion, and philosophy, non-violence in action and speech, skills for democratic participation including skills in how to change the opinions of fellow citizens or influence their thinking in ways that are respectful of differences and tolerant of disagreements, and how to organize fellow citizens for non-violent political action and engagement in support of causes not-yet-popular; and in

2. the appropriate scientific, ethical, and behavioral knowledge and skills required to assure the long term environmental sustainability of the planet Earth, and to do so in ways that enhance the well being of everyone on the planet.

Congress shall provide funding for such courses in all the educational institutions receiving public funds or loans or loan guarantees for students, and shall provide funding for similar courses to be made available to the non-student populations in each state.

All such courses must teach caring not only for the people and economic, social and environmental well-being of the people of the United States, but also for the economic, social and environmental well-being of all the people on the planet Earth and the well-being of the planet as well!

The measurement of student progress in the areas covered by sections 1 and 2 being, like artistic and musical skills, difficult or impossible to measure by quantitative criteria, educational institutions supported directly or indirectly by public funds shall develop subtle and appropriate qualitative ways of evaluating adequate progress on the part of students in the areas specified, ways that contribute to and not detract from students’ ability to love learning and to enhance their capacities to cooperate rather than compete with their fellow students in the process of intellectual and emotional growth. Teachers shall be funded to learn the skills described in points A and B and the methods of evaluation appropriate to this kind of values-oriented subject matter.

Article Four: Implementation

A. Any corporation which moves or seeks to move its assets outside the U.S. must submit an Environmental and Social Impact report to a grand jury of ordinary citizens, and the jury shall similarly receive testimony from other stakeholders and the employees of the corporation in question to determine the impact of the moving of those assets outside the U.S. The jury shall then determine what part of those assets, up to and including all of the assets of the corporation, shall be held in the U.S. to compensate those made unemployed or otherwise disadvantaged by the corporate move of its resources elsewhere, and or to pay for other forms of environmental or social destruction of the resources or the well-being of the United States or its citizens. Conspiracy to evade this provision shall be a crime punishable by no less than twenty years in prison for all members of the board of such a corporation.

2. Any part of the Constitution or the laws fo the U.S. or any of its states deemed by a court to be in conflict with any part of this ESRA Amendment shall be null and void. Any trade arrangements, treaties, or other international agreements entered into by the United States, its citizens, or its several states, deemed by a court to be in conflict with the provisions or intent of this Amendment are hereby declared null and void.

3. Congress shall take action to provide adequate funding for all parts of this amendment and implementing legislation that seeks to fulfill the intent as stated above.

[lildreamer316]

22. Love this, am sharing it.

Thanks so much, OGR. :hug:

[mmonk]

24. That is a social contract I can support.

That's the right soul plus the right attitude.

[H2O Man]

26. I really, really wish

that I could recommend this post.

This is an interesting night on DU. There is some very positive thinking going on. I absolutely appreciate your contributions to the positive vibrations on this forum.

[OneGrassRoot]

30. Thank you...

Your kind words mean a lot. :hug:

[Me.]

14. Just The Read I Needed Tonight

I was thinking of Henry Ford the other night and how he considered it necessary to pay people good wages so that they could afford to buy his cars. Such smart thinking of the one hand washed the other variety and so outmoded today. I think there is a self fulfilling prophecy aspect to the limited assets type of thinking. If people can't buy the goods the market diminishes and the dominoes begin to fall. As to the government, I no longer have faith that, with some exceptions, they are interested in governing rather than getting. It's all egos, power plays and money to them. After all, their children are not hungry, homeless or clothed in rags.

The events of recent days leave me with little hope that we have change we can believe in. In fact, I'm feeling like the dupe in a bait and switch.

There are many good people in the world going wonderful things and most of them are not in government.

[H2O Man]

27. Thank you.

Sometimes when one considers how profound the crises weface are, it can seem like we need complex solutions. But sometimes, as Malcolm said, it's best to keep it simple. Years ago, my brother-in-law said that one of the main problems -- which made solving others impossible -- is that we just have the wrong people in positions of power.

Maybe it is as simply as that government and other corporate positions primarily attract those functioning at the lowest levels of human potential -- liars, crooks, greedy vultures, and the power-hungry. As you say, there are lots of good people ....capable people .... who should be in those positions of power.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. I was about to pose a question of DU but glad I saw your post first. :)

You and I agree about attempting to harness of the energy of the brilliant DU Community to DO SOMETHING rather than continue to spiral downward in anger, frustration and despair, H20 Man.

Gathering people to achieve a focus -- other than a focus on venting about myriad issues -- is really challenging.

I was going to ask if focusing on loosening (with the intent to remove) corporate and "High Cabal" control is something we can join together to DO, as a community. I don't care how hopeless or Herculean it sounds, doing nothing assures our destruction.

This seems like something we can ALL agree on.

To answer your OP's question, I do believe government, including our government but NOT as it exists today due to being essentially bought and sold, CAN be a positive influence and produce for the good of the majority of citizens. It can do this along with a participatory citizenry with a vibrant entrepreneurial and social spirit, with the majority of people devoted to The Common Good.

It chooses not to and is indeed positioned to benefit only the wealthy.

Our efforts to change legislation about any issue are largely futile, imho, because our government really isn't acting on our behalf any longer. I think they appease us periodically -- via kabuki theatre -- and sometimes it is in the best interests of the wealthy to do something that simultaneously seems to help us. But, all in all, I do not believe the legislative body of the US is there to represent the majority of the citizens, even if there are a few who valiantly, and consistently, try to do so (Bernie Sanders, for example).

With this in mind, I was going to propose efforts -- and when I say "efforts" I mean revolutionary-style efforts of citizen involvement we haven't seen in decades -- to focus on three key issues. And, I believe even the average Tea Party member would join in these efforts, because they are fighting against the same Cabal control. They have a voice in our M$M now at least; maybe the M$M could be tricked into focusing on something that isn't in THEIR own best interests (the media conglomerates' interests, that is).

(Granted, if/when We the People truly DO have control once again and have a government for the people, the teabaggers -- I believe -- very much want a different world than we do. That's when politics come into play again and we work toward our ideological goals. But, right now, all political efforts are hopeless because we really don't have a voice any longer, not one that changes legislation or the course of this country.)


1. Overturning Citizen's United (there are several efforts proposing a constitutional amendment)

2. Campaign Finance Reform

3. Media Reform


Until those three issues are addressed, all efforts seem almost useless now.

And, as we work toward changing those three things which could open the door to We the People having a voice once again, we should be simultaneously creating a new world on our own via more cooperative, sustainable community efforts.

If we can focus on working TOWARD something positive, I do have hope ~ yep, I do ~ that answers to our planetary problems can come through. There are brilliant, visionary people out there and we need to create an atmosphere where more visionary solutions to problems can be nurtured.

Anger and frustration can be excellent catalysts for change; indeed, they're often necessary. Yet to stay immersed in anger, without channeling it toward doing something to affect the change we seek, we just continue to spiral downward and become willing victims. We do indeed live the proverbial self-fulfilling prophecy.

We know we can't control many things in this world, but how we respond to events is one thing we DO have control over.

Edit to add that "Critical Path" was one of the first books which set me on my current path and way of being in this world. :)

[w8liftinglady]

19. Excellent post.I agree 100% with you.

[H2O Man]

21. Well said.

I agree with you, 100%. And I thank you for your contribution to this thread.

It seems to me that DUers should almost all agree with the proposition that you outline. There can and should be different ideas about what steps that people at the grass roots level should take. There are many options. The only poor choice is to accept the unacceptable, and to conform to it. By merely complaining on an internet forum -- especially one with the potential of the Democratic Underground -- is to accept and conform, and nothing more.

[rhett o rick]

36. I think your points are great, however....

We cant do the things you suggest because a good share of the American people buy the propaganda and dont know who the enemy is.

Before we can do anything we must unite and put out a clear message (by what means i dont know) to everyone in America. We have to convince most Americans that the "Corp-Force" is the enemy and must be fought. Until then we have no chance of getting Congress to do what we want. Asking Congress to reform itself is a joke. Getting involved in local politics is a wonderful idea but wont yield results for years. We dont have years. We need an organization, a leader, strategy, and tactics.

I am going to fight like hell, but personally think it is hopeless. The enemy is too entrenched. They control the media, Congress and our military, and I see no remedy.

[OneGrassRoot]

40. Do you think we can get more specific?

I agree with you, except for the hopeless part. ;) Highly unlikely, brutally challenging, yes. Hopeless, no. For the sake of my own survival, I can't lose hope. ;)

The three action items are all focused on releasing corporate control: overturning Citizen's United, Campaign Finance Reform and Media Reform.

It's all about taking control back from "them." The ones who TRULY control everything in this country and much of the world.

Yet in order to communicate that message to an apathetic public, which is a Herculean task in and of itself, it seems we need to get much more specific.

Just saying "corporations" isn't correct. Many entrepreneurs and small mom & pop businesses are "corporations."

I'm just wondering if we can focus the message more to show who THEY are; and, is THEY the CEOs and Board of Directors for the multinational conglomerates? Are all of the multinationals part of THEY, or should we focus on the ones who are known to have paid off politicians? Fighting a faceless enemy is often ineffective.

Do we need to give THEY a name?

That may be the very first thing we can gather to do, or find where others have already done so.

:hi:

[rhett o rick]

41. Now you're talking. Great first step. Give the enemy a name.

I have been trying to do that. I like "CorpAmerica" but i think think that is a name of a specific corp. and I believe our enemy is international.

We have to educate the public or we are totally lost. As long as they vote for republicans, we are doomed.

We desperately need a leader also. Maybe Bernie Saunders, Howard Dean or Alan Grayson.

[SpiralHawk]

18. Kick

[lildreamer316]

20. Kiiiiiiiick.

[WilliamPitt]

25. Epic

Extraordinary.

:toast:

[MisterP]

28. most alarmingly, they're as natalist as they are Malthusian and warmongering

their goal appears to be a maximum "throughput" of humanity--1,000/km2 and adult lifespans in the 50s...

[Octafish]

29. That IS the Top Secret

You raise the question central to our time, H20 Man. And, because you are a good man at heart and in deed, you didn't bring up Machiavelli, who wrote to his prince (paraphrasing):

"Money to get the Power. Power to keep the Money."
Karl Rove, I imagine, thinks of himself as one of "The Hunters."
We, as in We the People or "The Rest of You" as Karl's ilk considers us, are "The Hunted."



The Have-Mores call the tune because, as they see things, they not only paid the band, they own the club. And, even if they call themselves "Republicans" or "conservative" or patriotic flag-waving loyal Americans, they are most un-Democratic.

If ours is still a democracy, why doesn't our government use its power to do the will of the people?

If they did, wars would end.
We'd have good jobs to sustain a middle class.
We'd have universal health care.
We'd have money to help the poor, the weak, the unemployed, the young, and the old.
We'd know what the government does in secret on behalf of unknown parties.

But, we don't. At least we still have the Intern--

[felix_numinous]

31. I was thinking about Buckminster Fuller

just the other night. He talked about the evolution of power consolidation, and how it has changed through history. It started with physical strength and then those that had the most weapons in the bronze age, then those with the most merchant ships, and in the industrial age the most powerful were successful in the corporate world.

Then he said that the next power paradigm was one of information, knowledge. Well we are definitely not only in the information age, but now Wikileaks is evidence that who holds the most secret knowledge has the most power. Power is now given to those who have the most accurate information, and may I add, in real time.

It took me this long to ferret this out of the recesses of my brain, because this is why his name came up for me the other night. Peace H2O Man.

[shanti]

32. k&r

for one of my favorite du'ers, h20man!

[Catherina]

33. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

35. I wish I could add to the recs, will settle for a kick.

Most excellent discussion, much food for thought, and thank you for the link to
spiritualprogressives.org

:toast:

[Hannah Bell]

37. the state dept fronts for SOME US intelligence agencies. there are intelligence agencies in the

military & other branches of gov, & they have competing interests, agendas & backers. and the public is 99% in the dark no matter how deep they dig.

all the military branches have their own intelligence services.
drug enforcement has theirs.
homeland security has theirs.
dept of energy has theirs.
treasury has theirs.
cia, fbi, dni, nsa, nro, ngia, tfi, nfr, etc.

who knows what they're doing. who knows who shares with who & who fights with who.

the public knows nothing.