HOW was the serviceman who gave the info to Wikileaks identified? I don't know

[gateley]

if I've ever heard how that came about. Thanks.

[Pavulon]

1. He bragged about it on the internet. When someone called him on it, he provided proof he was a

traitor in IRC chat forcing the person to either turn him in or become a conspirator. They choose wisely.

[librechik]

3. Quick to convict, I see

He's innocent, until PROVEN guilty in our alleged justice system. Not that that matters to you, apparently.

[Pavulon]

11. When you confess in public, conviction gets much easier.

he is criminally innocent, I say he is a treasonous piece of shit. If it turns out he is innocent, he can come sue me.

Like I said fuck him, he will be doing the hardest time in the US.

[BeFree]

34. wow

And the guy is a hero to me. He is a true patriot. A real warrior.
A peaceful warrior, and you sit there and dis him? wow.

[Pavulon]

36. Yep, some people love charlie manson. he has groupies too

the guy dumped raw data to do the most damage possible. so fuck him, i hope he lives a very long life in a very shitty prison.

[BeFree]

38. wow

Your hatred is something to see. The guy is a Patriot of the highest order. And you dis him? wow

[Pavulon]

40. Yes I dis him, dont worry he will have plenty of friends in prison.

you know where patriots like pollard and manning live. Despise is the word, i despise dog shit on my shoe, manning is about the same thing.

[BeFree]

43. Why?

He is a Patriot. He did what he did and made the world a safer place.
We should all be thanking him for his sacrifice.

[Pavulon]

44. because he broke the law and bragged about it, in public on IRC..

which makes him a criminal and a giant fucking moron.

[BeFree]

50. Ahhh

See, to me, bush deserves the type of anguish you dish out.

Who did Manning kill? All he did was a mild case of civil disobedience and you are blowing him
up to be as bad as bush? wow.

[Pavulon]

53. bush string theory is bad..

not all things are linked. he is a guilty little shit.

[BeFree]

59. wrong

Manning killed NO ONE.

In a real sense, your idle complaints here are as a puff of wind. A mere little puff.
Much rattling signifying nothing. Sad, too.

[Pavulon]

63. Hey, just remember Florence ADX. When that comes out to be his new home

remember that puff.

[BeFree]

65. A Martyr

We should all be so brave. But I can tell some of us run from duty. Shirk it, even make fun of it.

Puff, puff, puff.

[Pavulon]

68. Yeah, I shirked my ass to the balkans

how about you? You do your duty? Not that it matters, because I managed to hate the army AND not be a treasonous piece of shit makes me love lil bradwee even more.

[NuclearDem]

71. Your duty as an American is to stand up for the people who can't stand up for themselves

Not to unquestioningly defend the most powerful country in the world and the people who get away with REALLY killing people and destroying our country.

Bradley Manning didn't give information on how to assassinate the President. He didn't give out access codes. He didn't kill anyone. But you're willing to let the people who DID kill people get off the hook.

[Pavulon]

74. Thanks from you a great compliment

like saying he only raped black hookers so he doesn't deserve a real sentence. He gave out classified information, a felony. He did it 25,000 times.

I am not willing but a realist. The people you elect make those calls, you understand representative democracy right?

[NuclearDem]

78. You're welcome

He's still going to get a sentence, but throwing him in with traitors like the Rosenbergs and Ames is completely illogical.

Oh, and yeah, that follows. Because we elected our officials to send us to war with Iraq and to authorize torture. That's right. We obviously had a say in how our people voted once they got into power.

[sudopod]

100. SOMONE is a fan of MSNBC on the weekends.

Nothing wrong with a little bit of an attraction do dungeons, no sir.

[NuclearDem]

60. We've just never heard you call for Bush's arrest or Cheney's arrest

You know, for ACTUALLY putting people's lives in danger, and not just embarrassing the government.

It's a little hypocritical.

[Pavulon]

64. Hey, Did I hear our sitting President call for that

no? so why the fuck would I push to destroy his administration with some tail chasing event.

Bush is accountable for Iraq and questionable intelligence. That is what history will judge him on.

But I dont have pipe dream reality so you will not hear me calling for things that will never happen, ever.

[NuclearDem]

69. Well, there you go

Bush admits to torture, Pav doesn't want to do a damned thing about because the administration isn't doing anything about it.

This isn't some fucking tail-chasing event. It's something that not only destroyed our credibility as a bastion of human rights and dignity in the world and made us no better than the Soviets and their gulags. THAT'S what history will judge Bush on. Iraq and questionable intelligence will be only the beginning.

But hey, I guess it all doesn't matter! Look forward, not backwards, right?

[Pavulon]

76. You get a vote. You don't make policy.

Bush will not be criminally prosecuted, get over it.

[NuclearDem]

79. Doesn't make it right whatsoever

Representative democracy or not, our elected leaders let us down. We voted in people to represent us and our values, which happen to include seeing war criminals prosecuted, whether they're American or not.

I'm not gonna "give it up" when people are getting away with torture in my name.

[Pavulon]

80. Then you can elect republicans by making insane requests

of the democrats others worked hard to elect. Obama never pledged to prosecute bush, what gave you the idea he would do that, or nuke the moon for that manner.

[NuclearDem]

83. Holding criminals accountable isn't an insane request

Part of representative democracy is SUPPOSED to be that our representatives listen to our voices when they get into office. When a significant part of your constituency wants justice done to criminals, you're supposed to listen.

They didn't.

They betrayed our republic.

[Pavulon]

86. Well I disagree Obama betrayed the pubic by trying to try a former president

for what could be called a crime or bad policy. So we will not ever agree on this and I will leave it here.

[NuclearDem]

87. 'Bad policy'? Really?

He intentionally got people killed. He intentionally subjected people to the most inhumane treatment possible without simply ripping their skin off.

That's not 'bad policy'. That's anti-American and downright criminal.

[NuclearDem]

52. Jesus, he didn't give the Russians nuclear secrets

He didn't even provide troop movements like Geraldo.

The worst he did was (inadvertently) provide names of informants in Afghanistan...names which were redacted from the release.

[Pavulon]

54. he dumped 25,000 secret documents.

he will not be rewarded with blowjobs and lollipops. Well not the lollipops.

[NuclearDem]

56. And that disclosure has done...what exactly?

Oh right.

Not a damn thing except embarrass the government. This isn't the fucking Rosenberg trial. Get over yourself.

[Pavulon]

62. Created 25,000 count indictment?

he will be indicted and he will serve a MASSIVE time in prison. Oh yeah, as for your no consequences here is one.

You will be paying for a boost phase interceptor program now. We will not be recovering HEU in pakistan. And north korea now knows Chinese positions on reunification. But you arent korean so fuck them right?

Iran will be reacting to the saudi comments. Oh and someone exploded an Iranian scientist day after this dropped. Bet that got bumped up

But hey, your opinion and my opinion don't really count.

[NuclearDem]

67. Yeah, except not

Saudis and Iranians hate each other? OH NO, say it ain't so! That was a massive fucking surprise.

And if North Korea didn't catch on to the fact that the Chinese were sick of their shit it's their own damned fault. Reunification's GOING to happen sooner or later; better before NK actually has plausible nuclear weapons. And it's not as if this COMPLETELY took a diplomatic solution in Korea off the table.

[Pavulon]

70. Reality is not going your way. So here is what will happen

he will be tried in federal court. He will be convicted with his own words and forensic details linking him on camera in front of a terminal logged into SIPRnet stealing classified information in a war zone. He will be placed in the same prison with fellow treasonous pile of shit Pollard.

He will die in federal prison.

That is reality. You heard it here first.

[NuclearDem]

72. I know he will

But that doesn't change the fact you're blowing everything out of proportion. Christ, I might as well have been listening to a Cheney tell us about the "consequences" of this leak, the way you blabbed on.

[RaleighNCDUer]

73. Do you REALLY think that ANY of the things you mentioned

were not already in place/known about by the parties involved? We were already stopped cold at securing HEU in pakistan, because of the Pakistani government itself. ZERO impact. NK already knew the Chinese positions - they have a VERY effective intelligence service. Saudi attitudes toward Iran have not been a secret for decades, and the Iranians have known for YEARS that the Saudis, and other Sunni oil states, have been wanting the US to neutralize the Shia oil state to their north; all these did was reveal that Americans are being USED by the Arab states against a local rival - that WE are the dupes.

The only people that learned anything new by these leaks are the AMERICAN people.

[NuclearDem]

75. +1000 nt

[populistdriven]

89. PLONK

[NuclearDem]

45. self-delete

replied to the wrong person

[Pavulon]

48. Sure it does. Common sense he is done.(comment goes to post below this one)

he is guilty as shit. The legal system must treat him as innocent, not the public at large. reread the rules.

so again, he is a guilty little shit, and if he is not, he can sue me.

[NuclearDem]

49. Actually, you do have to treat him as innocent

How the fuck are you supposed to get a jury to hear his case if the public at large views him as guilty?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[Bodhi BloodWave]

99. indeed, and exactly how many here on DU treats

bush, cheney and the rest their merry men as innocents if i may ask?

Or is it a case of some people should be treated as innocent and others not?

*
And now i'm going to go wash my hands after writing what i just did
*

[MilesColtrane]

102. (deleted)

[NuclearDem]

47. Which is exactly the problem with America

Fact is, your opinion doesn't mean a damn thing until he's convicted in a court of law.

Innocent until proven guilty. Or are you just THAT out for blood?

[NorthCarolina]

66. "Treasonous piece of shit"?? Time and history may prove him to be a hero. nt

[Pavulon]

82. and they may not.. like i said a stupid, dejected, treasonous little

shit, now, and 200 years from now.

[NorthCarolina]

84. Sorry, wasn't aware that you had a functioning crystal ball. nt

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

88. ES&D

Hero Today, hero 200,300,400 ...... years from now.

Just can't handle the truth?

[Pavulon]

90. Likejack nicholson said, i just cant handle the truth

it will like just blow my mind man..

[Obamanaut]

101. I think it is 'presumed' innocent rather than 'is' innocent until...

If one robs a bank, one is in in fact guilty of robbery, therefore guilty, as soon as the robbery takes place. But in the criminal justice system, the robber is treated as though innocent for purposes of the trial, 'presumed' innocent.

But guilty none the less.

[jpgray]

5. Did you read the logs? What's your opinion of Ellsberg?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jpgray]

13. Ellsberg supports the leaks. Any opinion as to Manning's motives, expressed in the logs?

Particularly the frustration of detaining people for what he felt amounted to academic writing? The alleged dismissal of his concerns by superiors? I guess I'm asking if you believe it is as simple as treachery, or that there may be more to it.

[Pavulon]

15. Doesn't matter. Take rape. Does not matter who your fans are or why you rape someone

when you admit to rape in public on a logged forum and a forensic computer evidence will tie you rape you're done.

He is done. TO bad he did not shoot himself and save us the money of housing his ass at florence.

he dumped it where it would do maximum damage, so fuck him.

[jpgray]

18. Didn't you just say it was different with Ellsberg?

I think comparisons with rape are more inflammatory than illuminating. I doubt there's any question he broke the law whatever his motive, if that's your point. If your point is that there are no good leaks as there are no good rapes, I disagree with the first part of that.

[Pavulon]

20. Just because you dont get convicted of rape, does not mean you aren't a rapist..

to carry on the analogy. Bradley broke the law and admitted it, so he will be responsible for that.

[jpgray]

22. Thanks for responding. Just looking to see where you're coming from.

[librechik]

21. So, I guess you are eager to prosecute George Bush for admitting he ordered torture?

He did it on TV, that's even better than the internet. Are you outraged that he is still running free with so much blood on his hands?

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Yes. Fuck Yes. A Thousand Times Yes. Next Question?

Aren't you? What's your point?

[librechik]

27. Willy Nelson. 20 years for pot possession, right? It's the LAW

[Pavulon]

33. Right, because pot is the same as Espionage. They will both get trials

one will pay a small fine, the other will die in prison after serving 60 - 70 years.

[Pavulon]

25. And roman polanski.. focus..(nt)

[BeFree]

37. heh

Methinks that question was a real head banger for pav. Why are you so hard on pav?
Just because pav is so intense in his knee-jerk hatred doesn't mean you have the right to be judicial, does it? You think pav is not judicial, or is pav way overboard?

Where'd pav go?

[Lucinda]

24. I can see a case for his being disgusted at what he found and even more so

after being told to ignore it, and then making a decision to out the government. It could really be that simple.

[Pavulon]

26. Hope that is the case they will present. He will get 250,000 counts

and like I posted earlier, die in supermax. He could have gone to the senate armed services committee, to lots of places. Disclosing secret information is illegal and he will be convicted for doing what he admitted.

Just like rape, his motives are not taken into account.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Lucinda]

42. Agreed...Lots of other avenues he could have taken.

He's young...and made a choice...and he will pay for it the rest of his life.

[NuclearDem]

57. Yeah, because a Congressional committee would've certainly done something

:sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

77. He is a big boy, so he can face his decision in a federal court room.(nt)

[pipoman]

95. I agree with most of your position on this topic..

just so you know not everyone on this site is completely naive and subversive... :)

[gateley]

14. Thanks. "He spoke about it on the internet" would have sufficed but I respect

your right to your opinion. And where better to express it than DU? :7

I'm still chewing on this one. :hi:

[sabrina 1]

30. A distortion of what actually happened from you.

Manning contacted convicted computer hacker Adrian Lamo, who told Manning he was a journalist, by email. He then claims that in an internet chat, although other reports state it was through instant-messenging, Manning confessed to having provided the video of the slaughter of innocent Iraqis and two Reuters journalists, to Wikileaks. So says Lamo, who is not exactly a reliable source. So we can take anything he says with the usual skeptism afforded people with his background.

Lamo claims he then notified Federal Authorities after which he encouraged Manning to talk while government agents 'listened'.

But, there is some very interesting background to this story and the fact that no one has been allowed to hear Manning's side of it, we have no idea of what actually happened, or whether the story told by Lamo starts at the beginning.

[Pavulon]

35. Like I said, if you are on tape raping someone, you can try to argue skirt length

but it will not get you very far. He is scum and dumped data to do maximum damage. He is lucky to be alive.

[sabrina 1]

46. Your analogy is a little off, to say the least.

What he was doing was exposing corruption and lies.

Rape is hardly done for the benefit of exposing wrong-doing.

To you he is scum, and to those who have something to hide, no doubt. But to many, many people he is a hero. You will have to live with that.

This country, eg, engaged in the violation of the laws of other countries when they spied on U.N. member states. To those countries, those Americans, Condi Rice and the rest of the Bush gang at the State Dept. are scum.

Perspective is everything. You appear to have very limited perspective. Limited only to this country, regardless of how we are viewed for our law-breaking by other nations. That view, shared of course by the law-breakers, which is why they are screaming so loudly right now, is dangerous to this country. It is not the REVELATION of what this government has been doing that is the problem. If they were not breaking laws, there would be no revelations and nothing for you to be so frightened of.

The spying on the U.N. member states was done for very corrupt reasons. This government was in the process of lying to start a war. This in no way served our national security interests, in fact it did the opposite, so there is just no defense of that law-breaking at all. I don't know why you are even trying to defend it.

[Pavulon]

58. while I appreciate your op-ed there are consequences. ever hear of boost phase interceptors

well we will now be developing those to combat those 19 icbm's Iran now has. Those were secret until yesterday.

there is no law breaking in any of the documents i have seen, only bills, bills you and i will be covering with tax dollars.

enjoy the show, you are paying for it.

as for spying on the un, everyone does it.

[NuclearDem]

61. "everyone does it"

Which, of course, makes it right.

Pavulon, Mighty Defender of the Empire.

[RaleighNCDUer]

81. There is zero evidence of Iranian ICBMs. And, would we not develop

boost phase incerceptors anyway? So what the fucks the difference?

The only crime here is the embarassment of the Empire.

[Pavulon]

85. 19 missiles that can hit europe were dumped by the wikidicks

those will be used to justify holding the START treaty for specific language on boost phase systems. Its something the russians were going to let slide under the table, now it will be a major problem because it is public. I wonder if they bought stock in the companies that would make these, I would have.

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/29/131675386/documents-iran-obtained-missiles-from-n-korea

[sabrina 1]

96. Well, it all depends on how you look at things, doesn't it?

Iran has a right to defend itself. Since the U.S. and Israel have been itching for war with Iran, it was very predictable that they would do what any country would do to defend themselves.

I see it as good news. It will make it far more difficult to justify attacking that country when all they have to do is threaten to use these missiles.

The constant threats to Iran made it imperative for them to protect themselves so it is the fault of the warmongers here, the Bush 'axis of evil' declaration that virtually pushed both N.Korea and Iran into defense mode. And were you not around when intelligent people condemned Bush's challenges to those countries, predicting it would force them into protecting themselves and maybe even collaboration with each other? The left was right once again.

Now that it is known publicly, what difference does it make other than the fact that countries within range of the missiles, will not so eager to get on board with the U.S. should they be so stupid as to launch yet another illegal attack on another ME country.

I'm sure the U.S. already had this information. If the affected European countries did not know, I am sure they are pretty upset to know that the U.S is willing to sacrifice THEIR national security for their own interests.

Frankly I see this revelation as a very good thing, except for the warmongers who will have to explain why Europe should be threatened on their behalf.

It's a sort of guarantee that war with Iran will not happen. How is that a bad thing? A mutually assured destruction kind of scenario. It worked during the cold war.

[RaleighNCDUer]

97. I have no idea what you are trying to say - want to come back and try it

in English?

Medium range missiles of 1500 miles range are not ICBMs. But suppose they really were - what is the fucking threat? Iran has not been an aggressor nation for 250 years. They are not attacking anyone. As for the START treaty, I think we are a little more concerned about 10,000 russian missiles than about 19 sorry assed Iranian missiles, and the Russians no doubt think the same about OUR missiles. There's no reason to think that Iranian missiles would have such grave effect on START when Korean missiles didn't before this came out.

And, do you REALLY think that the Russians, or us, did NOT know about the missiles? Wikileaks changed NOTHING.

[NuclearDem]

98. Just ignore it

This seems to be what our friend is doing now:

[somone]

2. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning

Manning was an intelligence analyst assigned to a support battalion with the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division at Contingency Operating Station Hammer, Iraq. Agents of the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command arrested Manning based on information received from federal authorities provided by an American informant, Adrian Lamo, in whom Manning had previously confided.<2><3><4> Lamo said that Manning claimed, via instant messaging, to be the person who had leaked the "Collateral Murder" video of the July 12, 2007, Baghdad airstrike, in addition to a video of the Granai airstrike and around 260,000 diplomatic cables, to the whistleblower website Wikileaks, with Manning saying he hoped the release of the videos and documents would lead to "worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms."<5><6><7> The AP has described Manning as an alleged whistleblower.<8>

[LostInAnomie]

4. If I remember correctly, he chose an idiotic user name that gave him away.

Something like "Bradass + his age + his company number".

He's not too bright.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. he said he burned the information onto a cd that he'd titled as a "Lady Gaga"

album- :shrug:

I'm not sure that he isn't 'bright', he seems intelligent enough. His judgement ...

[Poll_Blind]

6. Allegedly he admitted it to a person in an IRC-style "chat" channel.

And that person turned him in. It's actually a little more convoluted than that, though. The person who turned him in had ties to an agency working with the government. Also, it is believed that the alleged leaker (Bradley Manning) was under the impression that the person who eventually snitched on him was either A) a reporter or B) a priest and that he felt that his "confession" would be taken in confidence.

As strange as this all might sound, the person who snitched (a guy named Adrian Lamo) has only provided cherry-picked excerpts from their conversation instead of the full logs- which obviously would throw more light on exactly what Manning and he spoke about.

One of the reasons why Assange has it out for Wired Magazine is that they played along with Lamo and reported basically what he (Lamo) and essentialy the government wanted to be broadcast about it.

Consequently things are so murky that one can only really say that Manning is under military arrest for admitting to leaking some secret information to WikiLeaks- but although everyone has their own pet suppositions, just what set or subset of material he sent them is unclear.

In other words, there may be more than one leak source for the material WikiLeaks is disseminating.

PB

[Mimosa]

7. Wired is CIA run, basically.

Don't ask me how I know.

[Poll_Blind]

8. That's so funny because right as I was clicking to read the body of your message...

...I was thinking "How do they know that?

:rofl:

PB

[Pavulon]

10. so is 4chan. how can they keep running conidering whst is posted there right?

the pedobear is actually sponsored by the DOJ..

[PeaceNikki]

19. "pedobear is actually sponsored by the DOJ."

I lol'd

[LostInAnomie]

12. Did the voices in your head tell you that?

Napoleon? George Washington? Jesus?

[Mimosa]

16. Ha ha.

Some people actually know people.

[Duer 157099]

28. Google "Adrian Lamo"

or just go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Lamo

[Mimosa]

31. That's what I told a couple of people.

And there are more connections off him. ;)

[ProudDad]

39. What makes people think that this PFC ...

(if he is a leaker)...

Is the ONLY leaker? :evilgrin:

[Pavulon]

41. The dead guy stuffed in his luggage (mi6) could have been a leaker

I bet manning will be the last one arrested. Hopefully the rest leaking military information will just go away.

[EFerrari]

93. Exactly. Hundreds of thousands of people have the same access.

:evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

91. I'm not assuming his guilt. He'll have a trial.

During the Vietnam war, I was in the USAF, handling Top Secret materials, and generating the same materials. Before I started doing any of that, I had a long, detailed briefing about what the penalties were for disclosing ANY information about what I was going to be working with. I signed a document that also detailed that information and was under oath when I signed it.

That's very typical, and I'm sure this young man signed a similar oath.

Over 40 years later, I would not divulge any of that information, even though it's no longer relevant and much of it has already been disclosed. I signed an oath promising not to reveal it. I honor my oaths.

This is not a matter of not knowing the penalties. I can guarantee that this young man knew the penalties of disclosure. If he did it, and I'm sure that will be part of the case against him, then he broke his oath and broke the law. He will do a long prison term, if found guilty.

It's a matter of law and honor.

[hayu_lol]

92. I assume that he will be tried under the UCMJ...

the treatment of classified info is well-defined. As has been mentioned, this troop knew exactly how many and what kind of laws/regulations he violated.

Supposedly some 600,000 people had the same access to this material. Since he is of very low rank, must be some commissioned officers around someplace who will be very uncomfortable for the near future. Someone had to have been in charge...this kid was not.

[MineralMan]

94. I imagine he will be tried under the UCMJ. Things are slightly

different under that code. As you say, there's no question that he knew the law. You don't work with classified materials without knowing the applicable laws.

It doesn't matter that security surrounding this stuff was weak. Nobody else released the material. It appears that just one person did. If he's found guilty, it's unlikely that he will ever get out of prison. I have no idea what his motivation was, and it doesn't really matter. The law will take its course.