Assange Calls for Clinton Resignation

[cali]

Tuesday, November 30, 2010


TIME Exclusive: WikiLeaks founder tells Richard Stengel SecState should resign "if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering U.S. diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the U.S. has signed up."

On whether WikiLeaks was breaking the law: "We have now in our four year history and over one hundred legal attacks of various kinds and have been victorious in all of those matters... It's very important to remember the law is not what, not simply what powerful people would want others to believe it is. The law is not what a general says it is. The law is not what Hillary Clinton says it is."


Read more: http://thepage.time.com/2010/11/30/assange-calls-for-clinton-resignation/#ixzz16o97HHal

[AndrewP]

1. There it is

Let the fighting begin.....

[JI7]

2. why ?

[bigtree]

3. he's funny

. . . the information he shows she was seeking hardly rises to the level of 'espionage'.

[jaxx]

4. For those of you who don't think Assange is politically motivated,

guess again.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. you are right- his agenda is showing.

:hi:

[Ken Burch]

54. Meaning what? You can't seriously be arguing that Assange is working for the GOP.

n/t.

[Marr]

57. I think they are suggesting that. It's asinine, of course, but

some people will swallow and promote anything if it helps them maintain their illusions.

[Bluerthanblue]

76. you think wrong-

assumptions can lead you into trouble.


There is far more to this world than the GOP and the Democratic party.

Mr.Assange likes to side-step and parse his 'reasons' for doing what he's doing. His ego and need for power and attention will be his downfall.

No illusions here-the only thing I'm promoting is thinking for oneself.

[Ken Burch]

79. If you think for yourself, you SUPPORT Wikileaks

Supporting government secrecy means giving up on "thinking for oneself". It means following the leaders blindly.

[Bluerthanblue]

83. I don't need to support "Wikileaks" in order to think for myself- OR

in order to know enough not to follow any leader blindly.

You may want to think about your own unwavering, unquestioning support for wikileaks.

There will always be 'secrecy' in Govt.-there will always be corruption and misuse of power. I do believe it's important to be alert for and ready to expose those wrongs and abuses.

I don't advocate blind allegiance to anything.

It is quite possible to be critical of the actions of wikileaks, in particular the manner in which they have chosen to release information and the way they are choosing to 'communicate' and still support uncovering wrong-doing.

[Marr]

92. I realize the world is a lot bigger than the GOP and the Democratic Party.

That's why I found the suggestion that he has "political motivations" so silly. Beyond the fact that exposing these documents is an inherently political act, I don't see what you're suggesting. What exactly are you suggesting?

[Ken Burch]

93. dupe post. self-delete.

[Ken Burch]

94. You won't get a straight answer.

The whole point was to make an insinuation, which is basically the discussion equivalent of farting in an elevator right before it reaches a floor and then getting out before other people get in.

[Bluerthanblue]

77. no I'm not.

Are you suggesting that he's working for "us"?

[Ken Burch]

78. Anything that ends secrecy in foreign policy works for the good of the people.

Secrecy is always about keeping the wars going and screwing the poor.

[Bluerthanblue]

87. If the allies were unable to maintain secrecy, Hitler would have

never fallen.

There are times when secrecy and discretion are essential in order to help bring an end to suffering. I don't think its a good thing to use the words 'always' and 'never' casually. The poor can and do get screwed in the open and in secret.

In a utopian world there would be no need for secrets or for diplomacy. But this isn't utopia. This is planet Earth.

[Ken Burch]

90. That was World War II. That was a straight "good vs. evil" war, the last one in history

Nothing compares to that now.

[AndrewP]

17. Yep

[Ken Burch]

59. What does "Yep" mean?

Spare us the "everyone KNOWS what we're talking about here" tone.

You know DAMN well that Assange isn't working for the GOP. He doesn't even live in this country, and it would make no sense for him to be leaking all this stuff just to make sure the even crazier wing of our ruling party gets back into the White House.

[superduperfarleft]

For those of you who think the world revolves around the US,

it doesn't. I seriously doubt Assange gives too much of a flying shit about internal US politics.

[Ken Burch]

56. What does "politically motivated" even mean in this context?

It's not as if any living person ISN'T "politically motivated". You, for example, are politically motivated in attacking Assange and defending secret diplomacy.

[asjr]

5. How about Condaleeza Rice? How about

Colin Powell? Did nothing like that occur under their supervision?

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. I think they should both resign immediately, if not sooner. n/t

[asjr]

14. I know! They have been dragging their tails.

And of course they would never have been chastized for anything they did. I think Mr. ASSange has it in for Hilary Clinton.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Agreed. n/t

[Ken Burch]

60. "Mr, ASSange"? Oh, so now we're on to cute junior high capitalization humor

How INCREDIBLY original and clever of you.

:eyes:

Assange is against secret diplomacy and militarism. He's not a GOP plant and it isn't personal towards Hillary. He'd say the same thing about a male Secretary of State, or about a Republican secretary of state if the McCain-Palin ticket were in power. And you know it.

[Ken Burch]

53. We already dealt with them. They're gone and never coming back

It was supposed to be COMPLETELY different when this administration came in.

[madinmaryland]

6. Hasn't most, if not all, of the stuff released pertain to the Bush Misadministration???

:wtf:

[leeroysphitz]

31. Never mind about that...

[Ken Burch]

7. Well yeah. Hillary SHOULD resign

She's been a Republican Secretary of Defense instead of a Democratic Secretary of State.

Democratic Secretaries of State are supposed to try to STOP wars, not keep them going by any means necessary.

And it could never be legitimately Democratic to push for a war with Iran(remember, any strike on Iran would have to lead to an endless and unwinnable war, since no war is actually winnable any more).

HRC should go and should resign from the Democratic Party. You can't be a hawk and want anything progressive. War from here on in can only be right-wing and can certainly never be good for women, a group HRC was supposed to be on the side of.

[jeanpalmer]

46. +1000 nt

[HCE SuiGeneris]

48. I keep seeing Kissinger in there somewhere.

Perhaps I'm jaded.

[Ken Burch]

52. She's never been anything but Dr. K in a pantsuit.

HRC forgot everything she ever learned in the SIXTIES.

And she was never a feminist. Feminists are AGAINST militarism.

[JackRiddler]

86. The Sixties? You mean back when she was a "Goldwater Girl"?

[Ken Burch]

89. I meant the post-1964 Sixties, when she supposedly moved left.

Still, you have a point.

If HRC had been Secretary of State in 1973, she would have overthrown Allende too.

[krabigirl]

84. She has always been pretty much a neocon in many ways.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. not sure he's the best judge of what "the law is"-

:shrug:

His ego is going to be his undoing imo.

[jeanpalmer]

47. He's not a constitutional scholar

How could he be expected to know that aggressive war is wrong.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Oh, fuck off already, Julian

Try and stay within your depth.

[Ken Burch]

49. Julian Assange is guilty of nothing more than committing truth.

Secrecy just gets the ordinary people of the world killed, and always killed solely in the name of the rich.

That's the only reason we're in Afghanistan.

If there was no gasline going through, our leaders wouldn't care about the "Taliban".

[HEyHEY]

62. oh, I think I'm gonna cry

[somone]

11. When Benjamin Franklin went to France as our representative

a big part of his job was to gather intelligence for a treaty. Diplomats and foreign ministers don't just sit around and drink tea...

[Bluerthanblue]

18. and he could only operate WITH secrecy-

I heard a very interesting interview on NPR yesterday with a person who wrote a book about the history of diplomatic relations- and he spoke a bit about the fact that our government has always relied on secrecy in working out our foreign affairs. He talked about Mr. Franklin, and his trip to France. It was a great segment- wish I had a link.

:hi:

[AndrewP]

The State Department has secrets...go figure huh? LOL

[AndrewP]

19. Dupe

[Luminous Animal]

58. You've misread the accusation and thus, you are not addressing the point.

That being that Clinton directed State Dept. employees to spy on U.N. members and employees. It is right there in the article... ""if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering U.S. diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations"". Which is illegal now and was illegal when the Bush admin did it in 2003.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. LOL

:rofl:

[Renew Deal]

16. I guess he realized people didn't care much about what he released.

Although it's amusing, nothing is going to happen.

[Ken Burch]

64. Since no good can come anymore of secret diplomacy, why do you still support it?

We need a transparent foreign policy.

All secrecy does is keep the killing going.

[Renew Deal]

67. I'll accept that when you post your name, address, phone number, social security number, and credit

card numbers in reply to this post.

[Ken Burch]

70. I was talking about secrecy in government policy and diplomacy.

The right to personal privacy is an entirely different matter, and has nothing whatsoever to do with what Assange has done.

[NoPasaran]

20. Good luck with that, Target Boy

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Hopefully, her CYA will fail and she will rsign.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. For those of you who fell for lie that the right wing loves Hillary and Bill Clinton...

...here's your answer.

When push comes to shove, Hillary would NOT have been treated any better than Obama.

I hope that we are fully awake now...

[Whisp]

24. well, Did she snoop into UN people's dna and credit cards or not?

was it on order from her boss or did she do this on her own? and for whom and why?
which of the two would you prefer?

80 pages of this a day he says.
living in interesting times.

Lots of people around the world a bit sweaty and nervous about now

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I'd like to see that myself. I'm hearing more and more being in D.C. and having

friends at the State Department. This could get really nasty. Very ugly, very fast. :(

ETA: Don't think that Darrell Issa won't include this among his long list of items to investigate the administration on.

[Luminous Animal]

43. She did direct people to spy and it is illegal to spy on U.N. members.

It was illegal when Bush's NSA did it in 2003 and it is illegal now.

The Observer, Sunday 9 March 2003 03.12 GMT

"The United Nations has begun a top-level investigation into the bugging of its delegations by the United States, first revealed in The Observer last week.

Sources in the office of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan confirmed last night that the spying operation had already been discussed at the UN's counter-terrorism committee and will be further investigated. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/09/iraq.unitednations1

[Individualist]

44. but, but everything is excusable as long as it's done by a Democrat.

[Whisp]

55. maybe she doing some work for her pal Mark Penn.

seems like he has his dirty little pudgy fingers in things nefarious.

but we'll see. maybe.

[Union Scribe]

80. You know what would make an interesting experiment?

If DU did a day where they filtered news stories to strip out names and party affiliations, just to see the honest reactions to stories like this. I think a lot more people would be criticizing these actions if they didn't know who it was, because you're right, if it's wrong it's wrong no matter who does it.

[LawnLover]

23. Ha. This guy needs to watch a few seasons of MI-5

Fiction, yes, but I doubt it's far from the truth. And I'm sure the U.S. does the same, not to mention every other country on earth.

[PeaceNikki]

25. lolz

[strawberryfield]

26. I just figured it out - Assange is working for the cons

Look at which side is ending up getting divided here. It ain't the cons.

[JackRiddler]

88. Right, that's why they're demanding he be murdered yesterday.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. If people don't need to resign over ordering water boarding.......

[Liquorice]

28. He sure is trying to get attention. Just think of how happy he'd be if he could

get a high-ranking resignation out of these leaks! He sounds like an attention-seeking idiot.

[David Zephyr]

29. I'm surprised she doesn't resign because the White House failed her in all of this.

It wasn't Hillary's responsibility to have her communications protected. That would be the President's responsibility.

The White House let her down.

[Number23]

34. And so it begins...

[Whisp]

38. bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

:rofl:

laughing out loud here!!!!!!!!

leave Hillary ALONE! it's not her FAULT!!!!!!

[Metric System]

30. This basically guarantees her job is safe.

[Number23]

33. lol And now we're getting to the crux of the issue

A prior thread on this had certain posters IMMEDIATELY attempting to change the conversation to Obama.

I have no doubt that if Assange was asking for Obama's resignation (which he probably will do soon enough) this would have 4 jillion replies and a billion recs.

[HipChick]

35. yep....and to think

Assange was being being hero-worshipped on DU..

[Whisp]

37. hahaha! that is so true.

I was wondering why things are all kind of quiet here, and such. lol

[Metric System]

40. Riiiight. Obama has always been more popular on DU than Hillary.

[Number23]

41. Do you understand what your point is? Because I certainly don't.

[Metric System]

42. My point is if you substituted Obama for Hillary, this thread would have even less recs.

[Number23]

74. That's not true. Obama is public enemy number one here

The only elected official in the entire world. Everything good and wholesome in the world would get done if ONLY he would just step out of the way.

Some DUers have been calling for a primary challenger since the man was in the office for a few weeks. There have even been a few rumblings of impeachment. Even though Hillary is (imo undeservedly) skewered here, the hate for Obama far overshadows hers.

[Scurrilous]

45. Yep. n/t

[Union Scribe]

82. You seem a little bitter with posters here.

[Scurrilous]

36. Kick

:kick:

[Ikonoklast]

39. If anyone here actually thinks the U.S. hasn't collected data on every diplomat

that ever stepped on our shore, please raise your hand, I have a bridge for sale.


And if anyone here thinks that the State Department doesn't have a court order to enable them to do so, raise your hand again, I want to sell you your hat.


And if anyone thinks that our diplomats overseas aren't being surveilled constantly...

[hayu_lol]

50. Tasks for the Secty. of State(Foggy Bottom)...

are issued by the Pres. Requests for info from the Pres. are the assignments the Secty. of State carries out.

Spying? Been around a very long time.

[Luminous Animal]

51. The accusation is that she directed State Dept. employees to spy on U.N. members.

Which was illegal when Bush did it and is still illegal when the Obama admin does it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/09/iraq.unitednations1
The Observer, Sunday 9 March 2003 03.12 GMT

"The United Nations has begun a top-level investigation into the bugging of its delegations by the United States, first revealed in The Observer last week.

Sources in the office of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan confirmed last night that the spying operation had already been discussed at the UN's counter-terrorism committee and will be further investigated. "

[HEyHEY]

61. Hey, Julien, no one gives a shit about your views on foreign policy.

[Skip Intro]

63. +100

[Ken Burch]

65. If you really felt that way, you wouldn't be mocking the guy

Why would you object to what he's doing or saying?

[HEyHEY]

66. Because I don't care what a website founder thinks?

Since when did he become the supreme authority on who should or shouldn't resign?

[Ken Burch]

69. You could just ignore him if you feel that way.

It's contradictory to go out of your way to dis the guy and then claim that you don't care what he thinks. Obviously, what he thinks pisses you off big time.

Care to tell us why?

And, given that you're Canadian, why would you be defensive about the U.S. Secretary of State anyway?

[HEyHEY]

71. I couldn't care less about the US secreatary of state, that's not the point

Point is this guy is now becoming yet another loud-mouthed know it all who suddenly thinks he knows what's best for the world. That's the last thing we need. Besides, it'd be best if wikileaks kept itself non-political.

And don't give me the "why are you discussing it, just ignore it" line. This is a discussion board we cna talk about things that we don't like, that's it's purpose.

[Ken Burch]

72. Whatever Wikileaks does will be taken as political no matter what.

There is no such thing as a "non-political" way to reveal the truth. "Objectivity" doesn't exist and never actually did.

[HEyHEY]

73. Yes, but when you release something then blatantly demand a resignation

I think it hurts any credibility you've had.

[sudopod]

91. Actually, the interviewer gave a shit about his views.

The reporter asked him his opinion, and he gave it. Should he have said "No comment?" Would that have made you happy?

[mmonk]

68. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[Beacool]

75. And we should care what this creep says because..........

Hey Assange, the Swedes leaked some information about you. They want you for allegedly raping a woman. Since you are so self righteous, why don't you show up over there and face the music? Not so brave when it's your ass on the line, huh?

:eyes:

[Radical Activist]

81. Yes, and replace her with someone who will take a different approach toward Latin America.

I don't how the final call was made to back the Honduran coup but I can guess what Clinton was recommending.

[krabigirl]

85. I agree, but not just because of this. Way too hawkish for my tastes.