Breaking on Hartmann

[nadinbrzezinski]

Peter De Fazio was JUST ON. The WHOLE DEMOCRATIC Caucus will NOT let this abomination come to the floor...

Talk about a revolt

[polichick]

1. Now - or ever? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. This is dead... period

the WH must be seeing red.

They have a full fledged revolt on their hands.

[inna]

25. i hope it's dead, but... i have a bad feeling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. The clock is short

so if they manage to get a package and vote on it and all that before the New Year... but in this form it is dead

[robinlynne]

55. me too. he should have made sure the tax cuts expire right now. We cannot

vote on that in January, unless Obama can veto?

[oregonjen]

2. Peter not Jim

[Liberalynn]

3. GoGoGo

Should have been sooner but better late than never. So GoGoGo!

[originalpckelly]

4. Amazing, there are still DEMOCRATS serving in the Congress.

It's a nice thing to see.

[Denninmi]

6. Only problem is, in 3 weeks, it's a Repuke House.

So, it will just get brought up anew and passed.

But, I'm thrilled they took a stand.

[Myrina]

10. well, then the Repukes will own it ...

... and if O has one cojone left, he'll veto it on that principle alone, regardless of it being 'his idea' in the first place.

[Canuckistanian]

59. Exactly

Boehner's FIRST order of business will be unemployment extensions when Congress convenes.

And there'll be no one left to bargain WITH.

[BrklynLiberal]

92. I believe you are one hundred percent correct.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yes, but passing this even with a republican house will not be easy

and it goes with things like having to do tax law retroactive.

This is also changing the dynamics in DC as well, since this was done by so many people calling et al. I gave up on the phone and FINALLY sent an EMAIL... I just could not get through.

[bvar22]

17. Won't the Republicans need 60 votes?

...or is THAT just for Democrats?

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. It is the House, they still will need a simple majority

you are thinking Senate where of course Dems will still need 60 votes...

[reformist2]

29. Exactly. Let's hear it for the 41 Democrats!!

[sadbear]

49. It's more like six weeks, right?

[dgibby]

67. Not if they break for the holidays.n/t

[JDPriestly]

99. If it passes after January, it will be a Republican bill.

I don't know how things are where you live, but here, people are really doing badly.

People are living on less than they had two years ago. The banks may be doing fine, but the people I meet, with a few exceptions, are really in financial trouble. There just is no money.

I realize that the Chamber of Commerce crowd has lots of money, and that they could start pouring it into the economy any day now since they are back in charge, but it will be a long time before the economic damage can be repaired. So many people have taken bankruptcy and, once they do get good jobs, will be paying off debts for the foreseeable future.

We don't need easing of our money supply. We need easing of our trade agreements. We need an industrial base and not just service jobs.

[Schema Thing]

7. Good. Looks to me like Obama learned from the HC debate

Congress has options. They can take his starting point, and make it better.


The "spine injection" has always been needed in congress, not in Obama.

[Dappleganger]

9. Learned what??

Most democrats had little knowledge of what was even in this bill until the president got up to speak. He was working with republicans on it, not the dems.

[RKP5637]

14. Yeah, that sure gave us the idea the dems work together. When I heard that all

I could think was WTF, he works with the republicans on it, not the dems, and then surprises the dems.

[Dappleganger]

41. Exactly.

When I learned that part it really made me angry! :mad:

[Schema Thing]

44. and if it ends up better, that's a bad thing?

because if you'll notice Congress wasn't proposing much until now. Or what they did propose has already been voted on and failed - (in the case of the proposed: middle class tax cuts extended and 250/ or 1 mil get higher taxes).

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You are aware that this was President Obama

negotiatiting wiht the REPUBLICANS behind everybody's back.

This is triangulation, and badly done mind you.

[Dappleganger]

43. It's really pissed me off...

they've made it clear that stopping the President's bills were a priority, yet he cavorts with them before first consulting the very ones who are on his side?

All I had to ask, just what is he hiding? Why does he need to do this--oh, right. Now I get it.

[Schema Thing]

45. looks to me like it was done perfectly

a pretty decent compromise, considering congress had fubar'd it completely, and now Dems have a strong bargaining position to make it better.

[Marr]

30. This is Obama's own party blocking his attempt to push Republican legislation.

I honestly don't see how you managed the interpretation that Obama is noble here.

This tax cut plan is such a bald-faced advocacy of conservative policies that his own party is blocking him to try and save their political skins.

[Schema Thing]

46. oh please.

[robinlynne]

56. exactly.

[Catherina]

65. +10,000 n/t

[amborin]

71. exactly

[laughingliberal]

74. +1,000,000 nt

[Fruittree]

83. If you look at t a chart of the whole deal -

"only" 132B is based on Republican demands, the remaining $600B or so was either bilateral or Democratic demands - How is this Republican legislation??!

[liberation]

81. Say what now?

[Stoic]

88. Hahahaha, you made a funny. n/t

[Lint Head]

8. Fan f***ing tastic!!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. At last the long awaited shipment of spines has arrived. K&R

[bobbolink]

18. !!!!

:rofl: :applause:

[KharmaTrain]

15. Also Reported On MSNBC...

The White House has lost the Progressive Caucus on this one and that's enough votes to prevent anything the Senate decides on from passing. A definitely slap at the White House and could unravel the whole shooting match.

[bobbolink]

63. GREAT!

:applause: :patriot:

[calimary]

100. "...can you hear me NOW?"

Isn't the Progressive Caucus the largest Democratic group in the House? Didn't the Progressive Caucus sustain the least carnage last month? Wasn't it the damn DINO Blue Dogs that got hit the worst - weren't their numbers utterly desimated, like by something close to half? Seems to me THAT is the story of the 2010 midterm elections - NOT how the teabaggers did this or that or the GOP got a mandate. They got what remained after the outrage on our side UN-motivated voters. The backwash was what got heard this time - because everybody else said "screw it."

If Obama wants a second term he better figure out who to start dancing with (HINT: those who brought him to the dance in the first place). And he better figure that out in a hurry. Because if WE aren't with him, he's got nothing.

[KharmaTrain]

105. I'm Not Sold On The "He Needs Us"

There are several groups that made his election possible...progressives, blacks, latinos, young, old, "soccer moms"...without any of those groups he wouldn't have won and no one is more important than the other. I'm sure those inside the White House don't see themselves owing anything to those on the left...where else ya gonna go?

I've talked to many people who aren't necessarily political and definitely not considered "progressive or liberal" and they're upset at how poorly this administration has performed. Some of it based on the perceptions portrayed by the corrupt corporate media and the other by his tepid reactions to attacks on him. I don't buy the polls that say people approve of this "compromise" or try to conflate his popularity numbers into support for this sell-out.

I agree if he wants to have a second term he better stop trying to get everyone inside the beltway to like him...not gonna happen. But I don't live under the illusion that it was progressives who put him in office or is the key to his reelection.

Cheers...

[Individualist]

16. Excellent!

[Windy]

20. Tell that to the unemployed.... They sure pick a ridiculous time to grow a spine!

the proper time would have been last summer before the midterms, but then they were too afraid of being voted out...
Now they play games with people's life line this winter.

Not a time for political grandstanding.

Very very sad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Two points about this

1.- 99s were not going to get any help anyway...

2.- They should have never been allowed to be taken hostage...

Lay blame where it belongs, and in this case it is at 1600 Penssylvania Avenue West

[leftynyc]

37. Good luck selling that bullshit

If unemployment benefits get cut off and taxes go up the only people who are going to be blamed are Democrats. People are going to suffer and DUers are cheering - this site has gone off the rails.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Let me see the LAST time we had a tax increase

the economy did VERY WELL...

Now what this PRESIDENT needs is to realize that he'd better talk to CLINTON about that... I mean BILL

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. We Didn't Have A Tax Increase In The Midst Of The Worst Economy In Eighty Years

.

[dionysus]

24. the people cheering this on don't give a shit about the unemployed.

it's 100% about defeating obama. this is christmas for them.

[Windy]

39. Sadly, I agree... :o( nt

[Schema Thing]

47. meh. this is about negotiating.

this is politics.


the deal is not going to get worse. It's very likely going to get better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. +1000

[TalkingDog]

69. As a person who's been looking for a job for 2 fucking years

I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you.

It has nothing to do with Obama. In my wildest dreams, I want him to be perfect. In reality, I understand he's not. It's not much different than a marriage in that respect.

I "married" him when I voted for him. That doesn't mean I like everything he does. That doesn't mean I won't argue with him.

I care about my sister: unemployed
I care about my nephew: unemployed
I care about my husbands cousin: lost his business and is working as a handyman for a fraction of the wages.
I care about his wife: unemployed.

Do NOT presume that our status as unemployed and verging on poverty means we can't see the writing on the wall.

Money to the unemployed leads to 1.40 stimulation to the economy for every 1.00 from the government.
Money to the wealthy in the form of taxes leads to .40 cents stimulation to the economy for every 1.00 from the government.

Funding the wealthy is NOT stimulating the economy. Funding the middle class will.

So how about the tax cuts expire for everybody and the tax money can be used for stimulus projects.

And don't even suggest the GOP won't take the money. They said that last time, but in the end, nobody turned it down.

[laughingliberal]

75. I'm unemployed but I'm more worried about the cut to the FICA tax & the push to cut SS.

The needs of the unemployed are pretty immediate but I want them to fight against the 'payroll tax holiday' that will set us up for an increase to the SS age that will impact all future generations.

[davidthegnome]

89. Actually

I AM unemployed, and I'm cheering it on. Sorry. You're wrong.

[Enthusiast]

90. I can only speak for

myself. For me it is all about stopping an extension of Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. However I do wish Obama would have taken the correct position to start with. Many of us are justifiably puzzled by the Obama position. I really don't think this is 100% about defeating Obama, not even 10%.

[bowens43]

94. complete and utter bullshit. nt

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

40. That's only your opinion...

Just because some people are making that argument, others are not.

Those on your side think it's a sad day, those on the other side say quite the opposite.

It's popular now to use overly emotive, hand wringing rhetoric to blackmail others. I find that very sad. Especially now, when too many people on both sides are hysterical about it being the holidays. I don't find that helpful. Losing your benefits sucks anytime of the year. If this was July 31, would people be saying, "Well, at least it wasn't the holidays." Maybe, but I don't subscribe to that point of view.

Full discloser: I'm at risk at losing my benefits. But I feel OK about this decision because I've been through this before. Obstructionist Republicans have grandstanded every time UI runs out. Within a week or two, however, they are extended *retroactively* because as hard as this is to believe, the Republicans aren't even that stupid not to.

[bobbolink]

64. Now you get a taste of what its like to be poor, especially NON-WORKING poor, and have cut after cut

while everyone else yawns and concentrates on other, "more important" business.

Doesn't feel so good, does it?

[dgibby]

68. You can thank the Blue Dogs for that, you know, Obama's base. n/t

[glitch]

70. You mean 1/3 of the unemployed, since 2/3 of the unemployed are ignored by Obama's deal. nt

[avaistheone1]

78. Most people miss that point.

[rhett o rick]

77. The cost of the Obama plan is way to expensive to help the unemployed.

Besides the Repukes will ditch the unemployed as soon as they are in office. You cant negotiate with blackmailers.

[bowens43]

95. wow.

I just don't know what to say to this nonsense.

[SpiralHawk]

21. Excellent

Take a stand

[bvar22]

19. Cool!!!

It is nice to have Obama "compromising" with Democrats for once!


...or will Democrats get the Iron Fist?

[laughingliberal]

76. +1000 nt

[SidDithers]

22. They voted on a non-binding resolution...

that is, apart from the optics, essentially meaningless. Pelosi still controls whether the bill comes to the floor for a vote.

Call me when the bill is defeated.

The vote itself does not scuttle the deal, which most Dems predict will pass with overwhelming support from House Republicans, and a small but significant amount of support from Dems. However, if Speaker Nancy Pelosi refuses to bring the bill to the floor, the calculus changes dramatically. Thus far, Pelosi has made no indication that she plans to thwart the President.

Update: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued the following statement following the vote:

House Democrats share the President's commitment to providing the middle class with a tax cut to grow the economy and create jobs. The House passed a bill last week to provide tax cuts for all Americans but not a bonus tax cut to millionaires and billionaires. The extra tax cut for the top 3 percent does not create jobs and increases the deficit. Unfortunately, Senate Republicans blocked the bill from being approved by the Senate.

In the Caucus today, House Democrats supported a resolution to reject the Senate Republican tax provisions as currently written. We will continue discussions with the President and our Democratic and Republican colleagues in the days ahead to improve the proposal before it comes to the House floor for a vote.

Democratic priorities remain clear: to provide a tax cut for working families, to create jobs and economic growth, to assist millions of our fellow Americans who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and to do this in a fiscally sound way."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/house-dems-vote-no-confidence-in-obama-tax-plan.php?ref=fpa

Sid

[AndrewP]

33. That's what I was wondering. It seems completely non-binding

Will they stand against it during an actual vote? Does this mean it won't get to a vote?

I'm just watching and trying to figure it out.

[Hannah Bell]

85. hmm. that's pretty non-committal. sounds like behind-the-scenes negotiation is still in process.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Yeah!

DEMOCRATS ---> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VyCtg4KNvf0/SRzRMvh5UWI/AAAAAAAAAXY/kn8xsm_WkoQ/s400/Angry+Mob+Simpsons.jpg



= 50% tax increases for (as lowest tax bracket goes from 10% to 15%)







= DEMOCRATS --->




=

<---GOP

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Your lack of undestandtaing is astounding

breath-taking in fact.

[FrenchieCat]

34. Ok... much smarter person!

:rofl:

[inna]

54. hardly astounding. just sad.

[davidwparker]

96. +1

[golddigger]

38. Nice pic of Obama shooting himself in the foot

on this.

[BigBearJohn]

73. hahahaha

[chatnoir]

98. Obama's foot.... lol!

[Hubert Flottz]

32. Good I'm glad they woke up.

[FlyByNight]

35. Wow

That's quite the no-confidence vote. I wonder how long before President Obama scolds them too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. He did the other day

I think that is one of the reasons they have had it.

[piratefish08]

42. hey, what do you know! Obama may have to reach across the aisle to his own party now.

that damn professional left fringe......

[undeterred]

61. The fucking retard contingent is expanding!

[undeterred]

62. The fucking retard contingent is expanding!

[defendandprotect]

80. Sadly funny -- but very funny .... !!!

:evilgrin:

[BrklynLiberal]

93. Funny and sad at the same time. And true as well...

[jwirr]

48. I am hoping that these same Democrats will know how to get some

of the good things in this bill before the end of the year. Also this may mean the end of any hopes for things like the Dream Act and repeal of DADT. The repugs will not vote to discuss anything if they do not get their way. I am glad to see them stand up finally and take a stand but I think we (DU) need to understand what else we have just signed onto.

[democracy1st]

52. K & R

[Ganja Ninja]

53. Take that Middle Man!

HELL NO YOU CAN'T!

[Odin2005]

57. WOOT!

[Canuckistanian]

58. Wow, I never heard this

So it's dead in the water.

Fantastic. Now PUT THIS BACK ON THE GOP.

[sufrommich]

60. I'm not a religious person, but I pray this is true!. nt

[Catherina]

66. Thank you Democratic Caucus n/t

[AllyCat]

72. Love it!

[defendandprotect]

79. That really, really is good news ....

however, think of how embarrassing it would have been to have had

ONLY Sen. Bernie Sanders filbustering this crap!!


Good for the Progressive Caucus!!

:)

[Fruittree]

82. Great but as I've asked before on this forum -

Do they have an alternative plan other than just a big, prolonged political fight? Because at stake are unemployment benefits, tax breaks for the middle class and attention to the Dream Act, DADT and the Start Treaty..It's not the House - it's the senate where only the middle class tax cuts didn't pass already.

[Kall]

86. Good

Now they need to hold their ground. I'm sure they'll be hectored by the same White House geniuses that told them that the only good solution last year was to pass the Republican health care bill.

[jerseyjack]

87. The danger now comes in January

The Repukes can write a harsher bill....especially beware of the reduction in payroll tax which will put Social Security in a weaker position.

[sirthomas66]

91. This is yesterday's information still, correct?

ssss

[caseymoz]

97. Wow! Democrats do have backbones.

Somewhat and now and then, but it's a start!

[Swampguana]

101. Good at least someone is taking a stand

[bushisanidiot]

102. Well they'd better come up with something before Dec. 31st!

something to get the republicans to agree to.

I don't see how that can happen with neither side wants to compromise, because that's seen as being "weak".

and who loses in all of this? the poor and middle class. the rich will stay rich no matter what happens. but the poor will get poorer after jan. 1. but hey! at least we stuck to our guns, right? cut the baby in half!

[Johnny2X2X]

103. Personal stake

I know it seems selfish, but if this Bill gets pushed to January my Girlfriend might lose her car and she and Millions like her will not have a Christmas.

The Unemployment Extension effects Millions right now, if the Republicans end up owning this Bill in January the Democrats will be hld responsible for ruining Millions of people's Christmas.

[Dinger]

104. This Could Be Obama's "No New Taxes" Waterloo (nt)

[glowing]

106. Am I one of the only ones who actually think that all tax cuts should expire?

I don't remember the Clinton tax rates effecting me all that much. The realit is maybe 10 to 20 less in my check per week. However, I know attacking the country with austerity measures will have a worse economic impact. And instead of cutting govt out, we should be sending money to states to protect state govt employment and Medicaid so that things like in Arizona don't happen all over this country (death panels).

I actually think congress should have worked in increasing the taxes on those making more than 1/2 a million per year. Let the bush taxes expire. We have to start paying for our bloated govt.