There is SOMETHING major going on

[nadinbrzezinski]

Not only in DC, but there is a change a coming.

In case you have not heard, Prince Charles was attacked by angry students (and three Ministers have resigned over the whole student fee row)

Here we have a revolt in Congress... (Time for the rest of us to get off our behinds)

The Anonymous attacks.

Demonstrations and stikes all over Europe...

This is starting to have a feeling that this is more than just a riot. No, not yet a revolution, but definitely more than just a riot. I think the push back has begun.

[no limit]

1. As long as we can finish the revolt before the next season of american idol comes on

we should be good.

[elias49]

5. Ha! Good one!

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. This is NOT limited to the US

This is starting to have the outlines of either 1848 or 1968

[no limit]

8. Maybe in other parts of the world, I'm not qualified to say. But sure as hell not here

the last election is all the proof you need.

And don't get me wrong, aren't protests in Europe the norm? Wouldn't it be actual news if protests weren't happening there?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. They are and they are not

the student protest in London has a different flavor to it...

There is pushback.

As to Americans it really does not matter if a few million take to the streets... the media will NOT cover it.





Just pointing this out....

[waddirum]

185. I was there...

I was there in the Federal Plaza in Chicago protesting the war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

216. Good then nobody can snow you as to not happening

[happygoluckytoyou]

331. MONOPOLY------> and this is how the ENDGAME starts---->

you are circling the board.... collect your $200.... and hand it to the first property owner you land on....

WHEN you cannot pay..... you sell your last asset

WHEN you STILL cannot pay.... you either LOSE and leave the board..... OR the rich guy loans you a few dollars so you can circle again

CAPITALISM HAS THIS ENDING.... AS RESOURCES (PROPERTIES) SETTLE INTO THE HANDS OF A FEW, EVERYONE ELSE JUST STARTS THE CIRCLING

********** SO HERE ARE SOME SOLUTIONS.....
1) add more properties and an extra board
2) print more money and hand it out to the poor people
3) add new taxes to the wealthy person until it is a game again
4) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? exactly...... WHAT DO YOU DO....

[lark]

304. Yeah, but let 500 people show up for Tea Party rally

And it's way inflated to 50,000 or even 500,000 and covered incessantly for days/weeks by all media.

Of course, no one ever investigates or reports that Rick Scott & Dick Armey paid for the buses and paid the people to attack HCR at the town hall meetings. They just reported the angry citizens, over and over.

BTW - I wish things were changing and push back happening, but don't see it at all where I live, in redneck northern FL. During the Vietnam war, there was major pushback and it was obvious even here.
With Faux news leading the way in spinning and lying and the other media following along like sheep to please their fat cat owners and advertisers, people do not hear the TRUTH. They hear Gibbs & Summers saying "2nd recession" if tax cuts for millionaires/billionaires not passed - which is a complete lie. They NEVER hear that after the Bush tax cuts that job creation actually tanked in this country. Until we have a way of overcoming the incessant and pervasive lies, there will be no revolution or even major push back. Sorry, I just see the glass is more than half empty in this case.

[greiner3]

318. I'vw got a strong bladder;

But I'd start looking for a toilet before I was in the middle of this crowd. Imagine if they were spread out like Conservative rallies are.

[NoNothing]

30. Call me crazy

But I think this last election *supports* the OP. The OP is right, people are pushing back against TPTB. That doesn't automatically translate into support for Democrats, though! Especially when the Democrats *are* TPTB. That's why they got voted out - because they were in power. Simple as that. There seems to be an assumption by some based that civil unrest is somehow *inherently* left-wing. But I don't think that's right at all.

[no limit]

31. If there was a true revolution here the 2 party system would be gone

clearly we aren't even close to anything like that. Americans were more than happy to vote along party lines again.

[NoNothing]

43. That's the thing though I don't think it was really party lines voting

Like it or not we have a 2-party system now because of our voting method. People are feeling anti-establishmentarian and the Democrats controlled the Presidency and the House. It looks to me like the exact same dynamic that caused the Republicans to lose so badly the elections before that. It wasn't really because the population moved substantially to the left, much as we might like to believe it; instead, it was a reactionary impulse against the party in power. It's the exact same reaction that has been aimed at both parties. That's why I think the OP is right.

[sce56]

263. One thing I noted about the last "ELECTION"

One state bucked the trend against Democratic ticket, California, what is the difference? Secretary of State Debra Bowen There were not many complaints about the electronic bandits here since Ms. Bowen has worked tirelessly to insure we have good machines with audit-able results.

[lark]

307. You nailed the real scare

I read that the voting machines in this country are from 2 groups and the heads of both are Bush Pioneers. Based on all the research, I feel confident that the tallies are not only manipulatable but are being actively manipulated. How else could Rick Scott win in FL after ripping off seniors, who not only vote but vote in large numbers? There were several people at my work who are Repug but voted for Sink because of Scott's fraud.

Many Repug states have not only installed these fraud prone machines but passed laws outlawing an actual count - why? - make it easy to skew the results. With the end of voter pollling, that just greased the skids.

[Helga Scow Stern]

308. true that n/t

[leeroysphitz]

267. +1

[CreekDog]

118. Conservatives took power in Britain

if someone's saying something that's going on there cannot happen here because of our election results (which were less conservative than theirs!)...they don't know what they're talking about.

[Matariki]

145. You're correct. And *we* had better get off our asses to direct change

or it's going to be the low IQ crowd making those decisions for us.

[sendero]

234. Exactly..

.... and how many polls will be financed and made to prove it was something else that got them voted out.

THEY WERE GIVEN THE POWER AND THEY ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING WITH IT.

Time to vote them out. That is EXACTLY what happened.

[freedom fighter jh]

236. Yes.

And that could mean that what happens in the near future is very important. Will all of us who want change find our common ground and work together? Getting past our differences won't be easy. But if we don't do it, we could end up fighting each other instead of the common enemy.

For a start, I think that no matter how ridiculous the Tea Partiers get, we should respond rationally and respectfully, without sarcasm. Even among ourselves -- they *are* looking at what we do among ourselves.

Places where we might agree with at least some non-Democratic protestors against TPTB: invasive searches at airports, expanded police powers, high deficits and national debt, unjustified war, joblessness, the growing income gap, and the continuing disempowerment of the common person. Remember how stupid we thought they were when they screamed "Keep your government hands off our social security." Maybe they were just prescient.

[veganlush]

247. you're not crazy

you're right, i was thinking the same thing regarding our elections. They were evidence of volatility and instability. Maybe we're both crazy.

[dbonds]

272. I think this is where Jon Stewart might be right...

It is not the left vs the right that is the problem; It is the corrupt powers that be vs the people. That seems to be where the revolt is.

[CreekDog]

113. Were the results of the British election any different than ours?

The conservatives took power if you recall.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. After how many years of New Loabor?

Aka third way?

Ot use a trite saying from the US... why vote for the light R, when you can get the real deal.

also the coalition was with a few in the Liberal Party... which is quite left.

[glinda]

209. That was a joke though.

[tomg]

225. I have a number of friends

in the UK some used to be Lib Dems. You think we feel betrayed? It's as if we elected Bernie Sanders and he turned in Dick Cheney.

[BlueMTexpat]

270. I understand that most Lib Dems are very upset with Nick Clegg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg

The Lib Dems' natural allies would have been Labour to pull Labour away from centrism and back to its source beliefs. Instead, when Clegg united with the Tories after the election results were in, he lost nearly all his bargaining power. The Lib Dems were essentially defanged with no effect on the Tories. Their plans are to undo anything positive that Labour had done and to reinstate all the privileges of the already prosperous.

Somehow, this scenario sounds dismally familiar. But the students, at least, are not taking it quietly.

[tomg]

273. That's what they were

telling me. And the students are not taking it quietly. Hope ours take a cue from the, but I doubt it.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

142. What ours has in common with the Brits and French is...

...they all are aimed at conservative politics. You can argue that Obama is not a conservative, but the revolt here is that his administration lacks the change we wanted. Whether it's fair or not, he's the one who raised our expectations. Folks here are revolting because we see capitulation, not change.

[rasputin1952]

241. The last election may be fuel for the discontent...

The R's will back the Upper Class...anything can happen once they really get going.

[femrap]

306. The US Bond Market is

revolting....prices have dropped. This could kick the Banksters in the ass.

Since I have no money, nor bonds....let the Rich get ready to fear the masses.

[rasputin1952]

337. I'm actually kind of amazed the nation hasn't risen in revolt yet...

People have lost their pensions, savings and jobs, yet they seem to believe the GOP has an answer. Reality and history dictate otherwise, unrestricted business will destroy the nation fiscally. When one adds war profiteers and wild investments by people that have no real job except to spend other people's money, (all the while collecting fees and bonuses), the soup is set to boil over and burn everyone.

People are incredibly stupid if they actually believe the policies of the GOP that have been the route to failure so many times in the past, will actually spur the economy. The GOP is hellbent on doing nothing but cater to their ultra-rich nest padders.

[femrap]

338. A Tipping Point will arrive.....

it's just a matter of time.

I live in Dumfukistan, formerly known as Ohio, so I understand what you speak of.

I see lots of anger out there....but it's not directed at those that deserve it.

[fadedrose]

285. Let them eat cake is next on their agenda - marches start then...eom

[tabasco]

115. LOL!

I wish.

[caseymoz]

237. Just rumblings so far.

But I have to admit, how widespread they are is suggestive. You knew when the economy turned bad worldwide and the solution everywhere was to reduce debt this would happen.

Hey, instead of a general workers' strike, how about a debtors strike? Where everybody skips a payment or two on their interest-bearing debt? Workers' strikes are no longer effective in the US, but this whole economy runs on debt now. Massive nonpayments will probably cause a panic. Or call it a "Consumers' Strike."

Meanwhile, have mass protests at banks and Wall Street Firms instead of Congress the White House.

[totodeinhere]

293. Yea right. Look at all the good that the demonstrations in 1968 did.

They brought us Nixon and Reagan and it's been downhill ever since.

[nadinbrzezinski]

297. The Right got the lesson, we did not

they started to organize a MOVEMENT in 1964... that was their reaction to that electoral shellacking... and now it is bearing fruit.

We need to do the exact same thing... it is not at the electoral box. It is NOT at the party hall, though that is part of the solution... it is AT MOVEMENT POLITICS... and it is high time the 'eft, which had it's balls taken off by McCarthy and defanged in 1973 to get it. We need to have a long term vision and to create a MOVEMENT.

But on the short term... what is gong on in the streets across the world is serious.

[AnneD]

312. Yes that is true....

but Nixon signed the clean air act and many other progressive bills. You may get a conservative leader, but they are scared shitless of movements. What the wealthy have forgotten is that when you have nothing to lose...you.have.nothing.to.lose.

The middle class is fast reaching that point. How does funding the unemployment by balancing it with a bonus tax of say 50% ? That once was unthinkable in this country-but not any more. Thanks to Wikileaks-the average person knows they were lied to. Now jack with the SS and they will figure they were cheated too. Then all hell will break lose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

325. I hate to burst this bubble but to the average person

wiki what?

They know they are geting lied to, but the leaks are not having that much of an effect.

Go ahead and ask regular joes what they know about them.

And abroad... it has been a collective MEH moment.

The bank leaks, not that average joes will know about them, will have a harsher effect since banks don't declass things. These leaks, same shit different decade.

Oh and the relatively minor effect of the leaks in the US is partially the US Media.

[badtoworse]

9. Hilarious!!

[progressoid]

29. That's not very funny

Because it's true. :(

[whathehell]

161. Europe has shows very similar to our American Idol

"Britain's Got Talent", etc. as do other European countries.

[liberation]

172. Wooooooooooossssssshhhhhh

[whathehell]

177. Huh?

Perhaps I'm slow on the uptake, but I'm not getting "whoooossshhhh".

[heliarc]

314. The meaning of "Whooooooshhh"

It is likely the previous poster is claiming that the joke went over your head... making a whoooosh like sound.

[Missy Vixen]

36. Even the American Idol fans won't be able to ignore this one

Change is coming, no matter what anyone does to stop it.

IMHO.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. That's so hilarious! I guess because you watch it, you think

everyone does. Not even 10% of Americans watch this show that the folks who like to play 'in the know' claim is the devout obsession of the entire land. It is a popular TV show, just like others for many decades now. A small segment of the population watches them, even the big hits. So while the tired joke is always worth repeating, that should not be mistaken for such a comment as having an actual point. Even among those watching TV at the time, far more are watching something else, even on Idol's biggest night.
I just get sick of the off the rack slams at the people. For not enjoying the entertainment others think they should, or for that matter, for not even watching shit that others seem to think controls their thoughts.
Additionally, American Idol is a remake of a British Program called Pop Idol that has been more popular there that this version is here, and those people are 'in the streets' as people say, right now. The Idol audience is protesting right now. All over Britain.

[no limit]

66. pssst...it was a joke

I actually never watched an episode of american idol in my life.

[Enthusiast]

243. Me too-never. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

294. Me either!

And I still think it's funny and that's that!

[Dappleganger]

72. FWIW, I took at as a poke at people's attention spans. nt

[donheld]

76. The person that gets this into high gear in the US will be my American Idol.

We need something or someone to get the masses out into the streets.

[Rockholm]

82. Survivor too.

[Creative]

122. Yes, dictatorships of the proletariat have a limited shelf life.

[WiffenPoof]

133. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[JBoy]

154. NHL playoff season is the deadline. Starts mid-April.

[Chisox08]

165. MLB playoffs is the real deadline. So you got until October

[JustAnotherGen]

289. rotflmao

:rofl:

[okieinpain]

296. now aint that the truth... n/t.

[heliarc]

313. I am Anonymous

This is to let you know that one of our main targets is American Idol. That is all.

[WinkyDink]

347. Because, otherwise, YOU would be on the front lines?

Talk is cheap.

[elias49]

2. Been there - I really have. I'm 58 years old

and I've been 'there' 4 or 5 times.
I may just start spending more time in my cabin in the woods.

[closeupready]

3. Could very well be. Civil unrest almost ALWAYS happens during economic downturns.

The larger the downturn, the bigger the unrest.

You may have connected the dots.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Excellent point...

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. 1968 was NOT an economic downturn

neither was 1848...

In fact, 1968 is the reason why some in the upper echelons of society want to get rid of the middle class.

[closeupready]

63. 1968 was fueled by masses of young baby boomers - sort of like the recent Iran protests.

Young people without jobs can be very loud and dangerous, since they have lots of time on their hands, and if they are bored and idle, they can dream up all kinds of mischief. Of course, I don't think protests are necessarily mischief - nor are they mostly. It's only when crowds lose control that they end up harming innocent people.

1848, I'm not as familiar with that era, sorry. But I recced your thread ('wrecked'? lol)

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. And 1968 was the reason that many in the elites decided

well fed middle classes, that were educated, were NOT a good idea... since they could get out of control... no shit sherlock.

So that is when the counter revolution and class warfare really started.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

147. 1968 (through 1974) was the reason that the business elites started

pointedly NOT HIRING liberal arts graduates.

In the old days, you could major in anything and get hired into the management training program of a large company. The assumption was that the company would train you on the job and send you to school for any further training you might need. (There were such opportunities when I was in grad school in the 1970s, banks that would take liberal arts graduates and have them work part-time at the bank while earning an MBA.)

After the student upheavals, major corporations decided that liberal arts graduates were too likely to rock the boat, so they started hiring only business majors or people who already had MBAs. This cut down on their training costs and freed them of people who knew something besides number crunching. The transition occurred in the late 1970s and was nearly complete by the mid 1980s.

[nadinbrzezinski]

151. Oh that explains it

I wondered why I never could get hired... really...

[704wipes]

157. may also explain the surge in ONLINE degrees

No one hanging out around a real campus with a real exchange of ideas going on.
Businesses love the online degree crowd. Credentials without critical thinking.

[JDPriestly]

200. And now that MBAs are in charge, businesses are making a lot

of really stupid decisions. That is what got our economy where it is -- half-educated MBAs running the business world.

[tomg]

224. Dead accurate. I have been in

academia ( in one way or another and often with four or five year "breaks" ) since 1973 (TA) - the corporatization of education is simply the "logical" endpoint of a process that began around 76-77. At the same time, there was a concerted attack on the liberal arts as "useless." The first evisceration of the public university systems ( and what happened to SUNY in the late 70s is a good case in point) started with the elimination of full departments in the humanities. Same thing is going on again.

The real goal of corporatization is to make public "higher education"unaffordable for the middle and working classes. That is, at least in large part, what the street actions in London are about.

[caseymoz]

238. Never saw that: An MBA is really a sign that you're a team player, nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

264. Yeah, a "team player" means "goes along with the muckey-mucks' stupid decisions

because he doesn't know anything except how to crunch numbers and manipulate employees."

I spent three years temping inside some large companies during the Reagan recession. I was just a lowly temp, but I saw some of those guys (and a few gals) who knew nothing but a four-year degree in business followed by an MBA.

I'm not counting the decent people who got an MBA out of fear that they'd never find a job. (I know some later-life MBAs who are deeply cynical about the whole thing.) I'm talking about the suburbanites who have lived in an affluent cocoon all their lives, got a four-year business degree, then an MBA, and proceeded to help wreck the country.

[Le Taz Hot]

245. So much for the

"You Boomers had everything handed to you" meme. Clueless doesn't even begin to describe that concept.

There was a reason they dumbed down the curriculum after the Boomers -- we were the best-educated generation, before or since, we asked too many questions AND we acted.

[GliderGuider]

268. Let's not forget the influence of the Powell Memo of 1971.

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

In 1971, Lewis F. Powell, then a corporate lawyer and member of the boards of 11 corporations, wrote a memo to his friend Eugene Sydnor, Jr., the Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The memorandum was dated August 23, 1971, two months prior to Powell's nomination by President Nixon to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Though Powell's memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration's "hands-off business" philosophy.

Most notable about these institutions was their focus on education, shifting values, and movement-building ...

[FailureToCommunicate]

282. Yikes. That's one scary manifesto! Thanks for posting it.

[emulatorloo]

277. Very good analysis. At one point corps wanted Liberal Arts folk because of their broadness and

versatility,

[Lydia Leftcoast]

339. Yes, in the early 1980s, I was an unemployed Ph. D., and did informational interviews

at all the companies then headquartered in the Twin Cities (and there were a lot of them).

The people I talked to were all managers who had been hired between 1958 and 1970, and they all said the same thing: That when they came out of college, they were liberal arts majors (history, music, English, etc.) and the company put them through its own training program and sent them to night classes to learn whatever specialized skills they needed. One of my informants said that one of his company's stars was someone with a degree in art history.

One of the companies did a lot of business with Japan, but the guy I talked to there shook his head and said, "Nowadays the Human Resources Department weeds out anybody who doesn't have at least a bachelor's degree in business and preferably an MBA." Then he sighed and said, "I bet you'd be really employable if you had an MBA."

Having just come out of a long graduate school career, the last thing I wanted was more school, so I stuck it out as a temp until an academic job opened up.

[The Wizard]

221. In 1968

everyone had skin in the game or was potential cannon fodder because of conscription.
The Sputnik factor came to fruition. After the Soviets launched Sputnik America panicked. There was a drive to get everyone into college because the perception was that we'd fallen behind academically. Consequently, a larger segment of the population went to college where they honed their critical thinking skills. One popular slogan was "Question Authority." The idea that an entire generation would march off to war because the government said so was held up to scrutiny by those expected to just follow orders. And going to street demonstrations was a good way to hook up and get laid.

[caseymoz]

244. Is your prediction than that nothing will come of this?

Why were all those hippie chicks protesting when they had no "skin in the game?"

You've explained it demographically, but unrest doesn't just happen for the same reasons every time. It also looks to be a convergence of unhappiness over many things. Such as in London, Assange's arrest and the US oppression of WikiLeaks might just add people and energy to the student movement.

[Art_from_Ark]

275. A lot of "hippie chicks" had brothers or boyfriends

who were potential cannon fodder. Besides, war was against the hippie creed of peace and love.

[lark]

310. I was one of those marching, sign waving hippie chics

and yes, those were the biggest reasons. We were also a caring group and didn't like our country killing hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese people, along with our friends, boyfriends, and brothers for no real reason other than to make the military industrial complex happy. Oh yeah, the oil reserves off Vietnam are huge and we all knew that was part of the real goal of our country.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

345. Yes, we antiwar types KNEW something that was kept from the general public--

that there are huge oil reserves off the coast of Vietnam.

Now it's public knowledge, but we knew it forty years ago and knew that it was one reason why it was so "important" to "save Vietnam from Communism."

[caseymoz]

348. A creed that itself was shaped by the Vietnam War.

But the point was, do you think nothing will come of this, then?

[nadinbrzezinski]

298. As I am fond of saying that was the US... but not Prague

not Mexico City, not Paris, nor London... and this is the point, this is having the feeling of THAT 1968, not just Ashbury Road in San Fran

[PufPuf23]

228. AHA moment reading this Nadine.

I started to explain but too personal. Thank you.

[Hestia]

292. Exactly - the 1968 students were the last of the truly educated in this country. After that, our

universities and colleges were turned into diploma mills - emphasis on job. The 1968 protests weren't the unemployed, they were women, mothers, grandmothers, grandfathers, etc., who were protesting. That's why Nixon crapped his pants, he'd lost white middle America. It was also when the war started on the middle class.

Got's to keep us skeered, so in came OPEC, massive layoffs in Detroit, crack in the big cities - it's been one disaster after another, because we keep blaming each other regarding the problems in the US.

We've been told that we *have* to have a job or we are layabouts welfare queens/kings, sucking off the teat of others (who coincidentally do not pay as much in taxes as you, because they are in a higher bracket, but they can sure the fuck tell you how to spend yours).

It's been one massive brain washing scheme after another, but glamors can only last for so long. The last administration keep it up 24/7, and now we've been inured to anymore. The one's you see clamoring for the pat down of your tween daughters, I'll betcha dollars to doughnuts are the paid operatives who swarmed the internet tubes in order to discombobulate the discussions. Problem is, you can generally tell who they are because they don't have the Righteous Anger, they just type funny, almost on purpose to prove they are one of "us." And they seem to be the same one's over and over that CNN, F*X, ABC, NBC, et al seem to interview, to the point that it looks like they are continuously interviewing the same family about the same issues - then the reporter turns, with a gleam in their eye, tell us, there's no left here, just pro/all-American right wing values.

Sorry for the babbling - in summation - the 1960s-1970s protesters weren't the unemployed, they were every person.

[DLnyc]

107. Young people under threat of being drafted to an insane war

and living in a repressive, racist, sexually backward society.

(Yes, believe it or not, society was once more repressed than it is now.)

[karynnj]

121. It was not hard at all to get summer jobs in 1968

It also was mostly the college kids protesting. My town, which was lower middle class and middle class, had about half the kids go to college, the other half got jobs in Chicago or the mills. We protested, they mostly didn't.

But, economics was not the problem - in fact, compared to later generations, most of us in college, were nowhere near as focused on what jobs we would get afterward.

[JDPriestly]

199. 1848 was the German middle-class revolution

The European Revolutions of 1848, known in some countries as the Spring of Nations, Springtime of the Peoples<3> or the Year of Revolution, were a series of political upheavals throughout Europe. Described by some historians as a revolutionary wave, the period of unrest began in France and then, further propelled by the French Revolution of 1848, soon spread to the rest of Europe.
Although most of the revolutions were quickly put down, there was a significant amount of violence in many areas, with tens of thousands of people tortured and/or killed. While the immediate political effects of the revolutions were largely reversed, the long-term reverberations of the events were far-reaching.
Alexis de Tocqueville remarked in his Recollections of the period that "society was cut in two: those who had nothing united in common envy, and those who had anything united in common terror."<4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

[glitch]

179. 1968 was the result of seeing the 4th of our leaders assassinated and a unending war.

Money isn't everything, 1968-73 could be the relatively extreme exception that proves the rule.

[nadinbrzezinski]

182. In the US... but here are a few things you miss

if you stay only within your borders.

Student Revolt, Mexico City... 1968... trust me MLK and Bobby had nothing to do with that one.

The Paris Student Revolt of 1968

The Anti War demonstrations in London, same year

Prague 1968

German Revolts, 1968

I am sure I have missed a few.

Not all go around our events, and yes the economy was VERY GOOD in all those places. But it was a STUDENT MOVEMENT and it was NOT limited to the US... or to US Centric Events, even if they did have a smidgen to do with Nam... but they also had a slew of internal reasons for them happening.

As you said, I will modify it. not everything goes around the US or US events.

[glitch]

186. They are connected. JFK, Malcolm X, MLK and RFK weren't just hometown heroes.

They were beloved all over the world. I am not saying they were the sole reason for the riots outside the US, but people need focal points and the war in Vietnam, which wasn't solely a US aggression (99.999% but we had unwilling allies as well, just like we do now), other nations had soldiers there and their citizens were angry about it too, and the people fighting against it here were not just heroes here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

190. Trust me, not in Mexico

in Mexico it was about DEMOCRACY and the opening of the country.... it had little to do with US events.

[glitch]

191. I trust you about Mexico, but I traveled some in Europe and Russia.

People were very focused on American imperialism (at least when talking to me) and the people here publicly fighting it, it affected (affects) them personally.

I even knew someone in Vladivostok with a print of a photo of JFK on their wall and this was in 1999!

[nadinbrzezinski]

193. The point is while people screamed

Yankees go home... there was that everywhere. The revolts were not just about the United States and this is part of the problem. The belief that everything went around the United States.

Soon Americans will join others in has been empires. Sadly this provincialism is going to grow am afraid.

[JDPriestly]

201. Yes, Nadinbrzezinski.

I was in Europe that summer. It was astounding. I will never forget my experiences there. The whole world somehow turned faster that year -- and then it slowed down and never moved so fast again.

The Prague Spring was just heartbreaking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

202. It started in Prague

and it ended in Tlatelolco...



(Needed a smaller image)

[JDPriestly]

211. I have stories to tell.

We have family ties to Hungary and Austria and traveled in Yugoslavia and all through Europe that summer. There were a lot of Czechs taking their first vacations in the West. Since we were very young and camping in a tent, we met them and had lots of fascinating encounters.

I have traveled quite a bit in Europe and lived there for years, but I will never, never forget my experiences of that summer. It was unique.

I e-mailed you. If you want to talk about this more, I would rather communicate privately. I recognize that the name brzezinski might be Czech.

[GliderGuider]

286. I was there as well. It remains the most amazing summer of my life.

I was 17, spending a year in Paris with my parents. I dropped out of my lycee to hang at the Sorbonne when it was occupied, then photographed the demonstrations in May. In June we went travelling through Europe, and were in Prague in July, singing protest songs in Wenceslas Square with the Czech kids. When we crossed the border from Czechoslovakia into Ukraine we saw trains of flatcars loaded with tanks, and we knew what was coming. We were in Moscow two weeks later when the Russians went in.

Here are some of my pics from Paris:

[tomg]

227. Thanks for bringing that

up. Too often, we think of things only in terms of our own situation. Always enjoy your perspective. 1968 was a very flipped out year . 69 and 70 were pretty nuts, too. And not simply in the US

[GliderGuider]

278. The fact that the economy was good contributed to the unrest of 1968

Students in prosperous times have a lot of financial and therefore mental freedom to question the existing power structures. That's exactly what happened in '68.

The squeeze TPTB have put on the middle class since then has been aimed at keeping people just impoverished enough that they will concentrate on earning a living and not on thinking, but not so impoverished that they feel they have nothing to lose. It's a fine line, and they have walked it exceedingly well.

Until now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. 1968 was NOT an economic downturn

neither was 1848...

In fact, 1968 is the reason why some in the upper echelons of society want to get rid of the middle class.

[The Wizard]

220. That's why the Great Depression

was originally called chaos. The depression label watered down the chaos concept.

[NoNothing]

4. You might be right

But based on my observations it would be a huge mistake to assume that everyone doing the pushing back agrees with us. That leads me to believe things can, and probably will, get even worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Oh like 1968, the last time this started to coalesce

each national group has it's own goals.

Trust me, the Paris Comune had very different goals than the students at Tlatelolco, Mexico, or Ashbury in San Fran.

But this is what this is starting to look to me like, possibly so.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Well, what ever it is I heard "it' won't

be televised. :)

[FailureToCommunicate]

279. Still relevant: Gil Scott-Heron. (link)

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0

also The Last Poets with "When the Revolution Comes"

Thanks for the reminder, John Q!

[Uncle Joe]

11. I agree.

Thanks for the thread, nadinbrzezinski.

[Renew Deal]

12. All this stuff going on and no one really does much of consequence.

The hacker attacks aren't particularlly brave, though I think many of the hackers will end up in prison. The "revolt" in congress isn't exactly 1860.

We'll have something to talk about when people really start breaking stuff and risking their lives.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. They are and I recommend you go to the bookstore

and buy Neuromancer, yes it is a novel... but it is predictive in many ways of what is going on now with the Hackers.

[eShirl]

55. a classic in the genre

perhaps *the* classic

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Oh absolutely

and what is ironic is that Gibson never, ever bought a computer. He did all on a portable typewriter.

[Mopar151]

276. Gibson says that's exaggerated

Once he got enough money to buy a computer, he did.


Have you read his newer books? The man is a prophet.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

299. I need to one of these days

[Buns_of_Fire]

69. When the asscarrots on Capitol Hill pointedly stop referring to each other as "my good friend..."

you'll know the tension has reached critical mass. (Not publicly kissing each other's ass JUST ISN'T DONE, y'know? I think it's in the club rules.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. symbolically that happened today

this ahem revolt in Congress is not a minor thing

[Buns_of_Fire]

252. No, you're right, not minor at all. The forced camaraderie is wearing thin these days.

From the "You lie!" outburst to an unnamed Democratic Caucus member shouting "F**k the President!", it's evident they're getting frazzled, too. Good. For the most part, these aren't "statesmen," they're just average (and in some notable cases, below average) schmucks with a gift of gab who latched on to a lucrative gig. They know it, and they're starting to realize that we know it, too.

[JDPriestly]

204. I am sincerely worried tonight.

I spoke to two women (separately) today, one in her late 50s and one in her mid-thirties. One of them has just enough money to make it through to the end of the month and no job in sight. Her lease will be up on the first of January and she has no place to go.

The second has a job, but can't pay the rent and eat on her incomes.

These are innocent, good women -- just normal women, and they are just two examples of a number of ordinary people who are facing destitution any day now. They are barely hanging on.

There are more empty, for rent apartments in my area of Los Angeles than I can remember.

The economy is getting worse and, in spite of what the government says, I do not see any hope for improvement. The misery index rises every day.

I don't know what might happen. I wish I could do something to stop the train wreck that I fear is very likely, but I don't know what to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

208. There is a limit and I think we are about to reach it

[Raksha]

320. Same thing is happening here in San Bernardino...

lots of people in my neighborhood unemployed (some have already run though all their extensions), lots of foreclosed houses and a "For Sale" in my front yard. I'm a renter but my landlord is in foreclosure and frantically trying to sell this place on a short sale.

About the only difference between here and L.A. is that property values are a lot lower here (they have fallen a LOT), and rents are quite a bit lower too.

[DJ13]

14. The greedy investor class has finally pushed the people too far

The fat cats made bad bets, but instead of accepting their losses and rebuilding their hordes of cash they got their paid for politicians to pay off those debts at near 100 cents on the dollar.

Now those politicians think they can force the poor and middle class to pay for those bad bets, and people are finally waking up to being screwed.

This plan to screw the poor and middle class is moving here to the US next year when the government tries to recoup some of the expense of continuing the Bush tax cuts by slashing entitlements and Social Security.

Lets hope we Americans have the guts shown by the Europeans.

[sabrina 1]

137. Very well put. That's exactly what is causing the riots, which

have been going on for a long time, actually. They started in India a few years ago as Runaway Capitalism hit developing countries first. There were food riots and CEOs of big Corps, who were firing people, like here, were afraid to go out of their homes. At the time, some far-sighted people predicted this would spread around the world as the whole Global System was about to collapse. And two years later Iceland's economy crashed, the first European country to do so. Then like a house of cards, one European country after another watched their economies collapse, and the Bankers take off with the spoils before it was too late.

Suddenly there was talk of 'Austerity Programs' and the target of these corrupt Global Capitalists became Europe's Social programs. The Greeks went wild as their government announced cuts in social programs, in salaries etc. It spread across Europe like wildfire and the British, the French, the Irish, country after country saw the beginnings of huge unrest.

The head of the EU warned leaders of these countries 'not to give in to the people' which sparked even more anger, but the leaders did as they were told. Democracy was dead, replaced by a Global New World Order where the formula for each once-sovereign nation was the same as their economies fell like dominoes. Even the language is the same.

Now there is talk of dismantling the EU. I hope it happens. That kind of centralized power removes the power of individual nations and is a prime target for Global Capitalists to take advantage of, with little to no input from the people.

We are now in the process of having the same formula applied here. Kill Social Programs, always referred to as 'entitlements.

The formula is so identical that it is clear the whole thing is being run by a small group of individuals. They gambled away people's money, and now they intend to make the 'lesser people' as Obama's choice for Co-Chair of his phony Commission, Alan Simpson refers to us, pay their gambling debts.

The people of Europe are not stupid, they know what is going on. At first though, this global capitalism seemed to be working great. Economies boomed for a short time, in Ireland eg, but they could not sustain the inflation.

I hope rest of Europe follows Iceland's lead. Toss out their rightwing, U.S. acolyte governments and replace them with people who understand why they are their. Nationalize all banks, forgive all debt, start prosecuting the Banks and the elected officials who caused the collapse, retrieve whatever money can be retrieved from the greedy, corrupt gamblers, and start all over again.

I hope this is the end of another system ending in 'ism'. If those riots turn into elections tossing everyone out, then there will be change. As happened in Iceland.

[nadinbrzezinski]

210. IMF that is the group you are looking for

IMF.

All these programs go back to the 1970s

[Goldstein1984]

15. I have a spark of hope

But I also fear that it may only be a skirmish that, like Seattle in 1999, leaves the ruling class and their security forces more determined to control the masses by any means necessary.

Probably the best possible event would be if the government overstepped an unspoken limit and used tactics against dissent that pushed the people across a threshold of action they currently won't pass. For example, security forces firing into a crowd.

So, I read of each new attempt by governments to stifle dissent in hopes that they will cross that limit, whatever it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. In the UK they already did

that attack on Royals... that is a bad sign if you are a member of police intelligence.

[Goldstein1984]

62. Or a good sign if you are a peasant

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Exactly

the last time that happened was... if memory serves, the Glorious Revolution... that is a few centuries... and given the royals have no real political power these days.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

168. Prince Charles and Camilla just happened by

They were not sought after or singled out for attacked. The couple were on their way to an annual event at the London Palladium. I kind of think that many Americans believe the Royal family to be Britain's hated rulers or something. Here's an account of the events;

"I said, 'It's Camilla!' I wasn't trying to alert them. I was just surprised to see her," he said. "A few people turned around and started hitting the windows. People started kicking the car."

The car behind, an official royal Jaguar, also came under attack,

In the confusion a window opened. Charles kept his calm, gently pushing his wife toward the floor to get her out of the line of fire.

"Charles got her on the floor and put his hands on her,"

The 62-year-old prince remained calm, "waving and giving the thumbs' up."

"It was just a surreal thing, It was completely manic."

After several chaotic minutes, the car managed to force its way through the crowd and drive off.

Charles' office, Clarence House, said the couple was unharmed. But Camilla, 63, looked shaken and Charles was somber as the couple arrived at the London Palladium a few minutes after the attack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

189. Them getting driven into the middle of that

was NO ACCIDENT!

[Cherchez la Femme]

319. It's possible

simply because of the arrogance of the rich
--and I'm not dogging the English monarchy, just in general--

their feelings of power, the way they're kowtowed to in 'civilized' society,

that kind of arrogance doesn't comprehend that, when the people are rioting, they (the rich) are no longer special but become targets

They are definitely not 'of the people' when they believe they are -- and they could have done good things for the people, doesn't matter, their wealth and power stands them apart.
There's a complete disconnect and strangely, they feel they're untouchable.

JMHO

[nadinbrzezinski]

328. A little insight since I worked as part of a VIP

protection twice, once accidentally and once on purpose.

There is no way that their team did not know what they were driving into, all excuses from the Metropolitan Police to the contrary... you do not allow your package to drive into a flash mob and if you think they did not have chopers on the air.

If they did not know... the level of coordination between the security team and the police is so damn low that it borders on the irresponsible. Why I tend to reach for the tinfoil hat...

The first time, accidental, when we transported our patient, with a VIP on board who insisted, we had a full fledged police escort and roads were cleared... before we got onto them.

The second time, we were all briefed on the security plan as far as what we needed to know.. and nobody moved until all, and I mean this, all was clear.

This was no accident.

Oh and I am damn glad they did not follow standard procedure or we'd be discussing not 35 arrests, but why people were run over. That armor also saved their hides. A regular Rolls Royce would have been penetrated...

[Boudica the Lyoness]

334. Do you mean that you think their driver set it up?

From what I hear the students were making their way down Regent Street bashing in store windows and wot not, then the Rolls rolled by with the Heir to the Throne in it. lol it was just too much for them to resist.

The students didn't go looking for the Royal Family on purpose.

Imagine if American protesters attacked a car with a US president in it like that. I think they would have been some protesters shot or at least arrested. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

344. At the very least communications was shoddy

and the procedure is for the driver to punch it to get their packet out of there, no matter who or how many are run over.

They didin't follow that.

As to arrests, so far 35 according to the news.

[AuntPatsy]

16. Unless we Americans follow suit, we will never reap the benefits of having won

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Why we need to get of our duffs!

And I think that is coming too.

[AuntPatsy]

68. You have more faith than I do in us... I hope you are right and I wrong

[nadinbrzezinski]

309. When people get desperate enough

that is almost an immutable law of history...

[AuntPatsy]

17. Unless we Americans follow suit, we will never reap the benefits of having won

[Swamp Rat]

18. The Revolution will not be televised, but it might be leaked all over the Inter-tubes

:)

[RKP5637]

37. Hence their desire for the internet kill switch. Yeah, to protect us from

"them" over there, right. They would love to deny access to certain sites here reporting on any revolution-like event or in fact bring the whole Internet down.

[Horse with no Name]

19. Class warfare.

I mean, having to choose between unemployed getting what they need to the rich getting what they want?
The unemployed getting theirs at the risk that Social Security will be gutted?
The lower income brackets having a tax hike so that the unemployed get benefits and the rich get their tax breaks? Difference between paying the electric bill or not?

It is indeed class warfare.

Problem is...they are dividing the lower classes by making them feel that nobody cares about their plight, when the reality is that by fixing THEIR plight another one is created for someone else.

It isn't going to end pretty. That is what I know.

[RKP5637]

42. Exactly! Well said! n/t

[WheelWalker]

192. It was always going to end up with the haves vs. the have nots.

[slackmaster]

341. It's certainly being sold as class warfare, but I think the reality is more like a Star Trek episode

called Day of the Dove, in which an alien life force that feeds on hatred and violence takes over the Enterprise and arms humans and Klingons with edged weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dove

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708427/

[Catherina]

20. I agree but I think this is the beginning of a worldwide revolution

Grains of sand in nascent pearls. Btw, I owe you an apology but your PM are turned off. I'm sorry for being unfairly rude to you last week.

[Horse with no Name]

22. I owe you one too

from the primaries.
We had some ugly exchanges.
These days, I agree with just about everything you say.:hug:

[Catherina]

33. I don't even remember

I don't remember you as being ugly at all. You never made my long ignore list. :hug:

But I was a deluded fool during the Primaries, backing Obama with all my might. I'm sure I owe you an apology from then too. In fact, I owe the world an apology for that.

[Missy Vixen]

46. I like this thread

I also like your tribute to the sweet prince. It makes me sick to realize there are so many like him - alone, afraid, and thinking he didn't matter - and we couldn't save him.

In the meantime, those who haven't read "The Fourth Turning" may want to pick up a copy as well. Everything we know is being shaken to its foundations.

In the end, and hopefully without being maudlin, all we have is each other.

[Catherina]

56. "The Fourth Turning" ? First I've heard of it but it looks interesting

Just after the millennium, America will enter a new era that will culminate with a crisis comparable to the American Revolution, the Civil War, the Great Depression, and World War II. The survival of the nation will almost certainly be at stake.

http://www.fourthturning.com/


You might enjoy this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfFAl5Jhxc . It's an original cello composition by Justin, sweet prince on his youtube channel. It's hauntingly beautiful. I'm listening to it now and enjoying it. It goes well with this Wikileaks time.

[Odin2005]

77. I post at that site's message board as "Odin"

[Catherina]

109. Ok, now my curiosity is really piqued. n/t

:hi:

[Odin2005]

117. Thanks!

:-)

[TheWatcher]

332. Sounds like a place I should visit.

Thanks for the links. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

343. It is also definitely a book you should read

[Raksha]

124. Thank you for the "Fouth Turning" link. It's fascinating.

I never heard of that book (or the theory) before, but I can see now that I have to read it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. No problems, we just don't see eye to eye

on how significant the DOD\ State are... as DOCUMENTS, and that is cool.

Now I cannot wait for the bank documents... for the reasons I stated last week, those will do some real damage.

[Catherina]

45. Thank you Nadin

But I was wrong to take it so strongly. When the leaks started, I knew, deep in my guts, that this was the start of something big. The faster people yawned and Hillary minimized the damage control she was doing, the more I felt things were about to explode because people in the streets weren't going to take kindly to their government's hypocrisy and hidden complicity. I predict that the House of Saud won't see 2013.

I'm eagerly waiting for the bank documents too.

[suffragette]

23. Maybe we're all finally getting it

Wrote this awhile back and still think there isn't enough reporting (likely on purpose) about all of this in the context of the G8/G20 deals that were made.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8769829

[laughingliberal]

178. +1000 nt

[suffragette]

195. Thanks LL

Sometimes I feel I'm yelling into the wind on this topic.

[laughingliberal]

207. I know that feeling. No one wants to hear that the world leaders sold their people out in Toronto.

Thank you for trying to spread the word.

[suffragette]

219. Yes, it's a rotten feeling

And the U.S. press seems to have a big mute button on even mentioning it.

Krugman's at least brought up the brutal reality of the impact on nation's like Ireland where austerity has made it all worse and compared to Iceland, which took a different route.


:hug: to you

[malaise]

253. You were correct

:hi:

[suffragette]

281. This ties to the ratcheting up of the pressure

on Assange & Wikileaks after they announced bank disclosures are forthcoming.
Both govts and banks don't want the curtain drawn back on how these agreements have been made.
Wikileaks is giving people a focal point to direct their frustration and anger.

And the pattern keeps continuing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4652439

The tax/budget fight is part of the same - increase for the poorest (at the same time social & health programs are being reduced) and more for the wealthiest.


:hi:

[Missy Vixen]

25. For those with ears to hear

It's starting.

If you haven't read "The Fourth Turning", I recommend it.

Thanks, Nadin, for such a thought-provoking thread.

[lpbk2713]

27. And several large EU countries are on the verge of bankruptcy.

If they aren't technically bankrupt already.

It's going to come to a frightening head soon.

I hope Bush and Cheney & Co. burn in hell forever.

[defendandprotect]

38. How about our own states??? Corporations are replacing sovereign governments.....

Ironically -- it is government which creates corporations!!

[Fire Walk With Me]

71. The very purposeful privatization we are experiencing must be stopped.

Disaster Capitalism of the rich against the poor, of the US infrastructure...extremely deadly stuff.

[defendandprotect]

93. As we used to say .... "We're all Indians" .....

We will also be alleged to have sold everything for $24 -- !!

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Exactly how is noticing trends being an instigator?

I am sure a few people in police and internal security agencies are reaching the same conclusion by the way.

This is no longer your run of the mill...

But go on... after all you are the one who will stand on the side lines and cheer the cops... right?

[Swamp Rat]

59. Kudos for you for holding your tongue when you could open a righteous can of whoop-ass!

:patriot:

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. They are the ones that stand on the sidelines

when things get hot.

This is definitely no longer a riot, Lord knows I have been present at a few...

[LongTomH]

326. The people who stand on the sidelines and cheer the cops................

............are still likely to get their heads knocked in!

"There are no innocent bystanders!"

[nadinbrzezinski]

349. Nope, but that is another story

[Swamp Rat]

58. You know, you just insulted a veteran... So, how many combat tours did you complete?

eom

[Pisces]

92. I applaud a veteran service but that doesn't mean I will be deferential to their opinions.

[treestar]

106. Using that on the internet is just emotional blackmail

No one on the internet can claim they are a veteran of anything.

The beauty of that is you have to support your opinions - rather than just rely on "I'm a veteran so you better agree with me or I'll use it against you."

Also a fallacy - using a person's status to support their argument, rather than facts.

[donco6]

153. Sort of like playing the race card, eh? n/t

[Swamp Rat]

205. No, not at all.

The poster wrote, "You sound like an instigator that stands on the sidelines while others get killed," to a person who served this and another country, putting her life on the line while SAVING the lives of others.

I find it totally offensive, and I'll smack down any similar, asinine posts about any DUer who has worked as a combat medic, field doctor, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

212. As I told you above

people making those comments are the ones who stand on the sidelines.

:-)

Thanks by the way.

I know the type... a yellow stripe runs down their backs

[donco6]

274. I hope you meant that for treestar.

I know I did.

[Swamp Rat]

203. "You sound like an instigator that stands on the sidelines while others get killed."

How does that feel when it is directed at YOU?

By the way, most of us know and trust nadinbrzezinski, but you, not so much (and I'm being kind).

[rhett o rick]

105. If you arent with us, please step aside and go back to your American Idol. nm

[stranger81]

141. Perhaps you haven't heard, but people are being killed every day now

under your sacrosanct status quo.

[JDPriestly]

206. Pisces, if you read history, you will recognize certain patterns

that occur as abrupt change, often but not always, violent change is about to occur.

I warned during the Bush administration that our society was more and more resembling that of pre-NAZI Germany. 9/11 gave our government the excuse to introduce repressive, intrusive action by our government that was repressive and potentially very repressive in nature. The increase in scapegoating minorities including illegal immigrants increased and was given a lot of recognition.

Now I see a lot of the same signals that preceded the French Revolution. Our tax system more and more favors the trust fund wealthy. They inherited their wealth and it is not taxed as heavily as work is taxed. When inherited wealth and wealth earned from passive investments do not bear their burden of taxes, the burden on the productive, working middle and lower classes increases. I have oversimplified it, but that is sort of what happened prior to the French Revolution. Also, prior to the French Revolution, the French government meddled in foreign wars. It even helped fund our revolution (remember Lafayette) -- an effort that put further stress on the French economy.

Of course, our time is very different and, although we can learn from history, it does not repeat itself. But there are remarkable parallels, chilling parallels. It scares me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. The people are growing weary of being screwed by the corporations and their lackeys the politicians.

They can only be pushed so much and they begin to fight back against the bosses.

[RKP5637]

51. Exactly! I think people across the world are getting fed up with it all! n/t

[bluesmail]

34. In the middle of * reign of terror I said to my daughter there's got to be

someone somewhere planning something! (Can't remember what her response was). I then said they'd have to be super secret at it. Oh please. Oh please. Before I leave this planet, we need the truth, we need justice..this already has been a wild ride.

[defendandprotect]

35. Something is certainly going on ... and we have to insure that it moves non-violently....

and in a liberal direction --

[GliderGuider]

52. There is no way to ensure that.

The system that is in motion is too complex for rational control. We can each put our efforts toward moving our own corner of it in a positive direction, but the system as a whole is inherently uncontrollable. That's what TPTB are discovering to their dismay.

[Odin2005]

78. Karl Popper, the great anti-totalitarian philosopher, said the same thing.

When criticizing what he called the "Conspiracy Theory of Society" (the stereotypical conspiracist nonsense about Illuminati/Jews/Etc. controlling the world) he wrote that any conspiracy by the elites to bring society under total control will always fail because societies are to complex to totally control.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Hell Plato started that crap in The Republic

which some folks have idealized....

There, I am done ranting

:-)

[GliderGuider]

47. It sure feels like that, doesn't it?

It's interesting (but not surprising) that we're only noticing it now that it has hit the social/political/economic arena. For people with an ecological or systems analysis perspective this has been building for the last 5 years.

http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/3377">The Failure of Networked Systems

Academics have studied failures of complex systems with interesting results. One of the experiments they did will be familiar to anyone who has ever played with sand-castles as a child. Build a sand pile by gradually adding grains of sand. After a while, avalanches start to run down your pile. Sometimes they are minor, while other times they affect the whole pile. There is seemingly no way to reliably predict the outcome.

However Per Bak, in his book “How Nature Works” shows that there is an instructive way to look at this question.

There is a critical angle for piles of sand - a level of steepness that the slope cannot go beyond without sand starting to roll down the slope. Imagine that, as you add sand, you colour red all of the areas of the pile that achieve this critical angle (and are thus on the verge of an avalanche). You will notice that the red patches appear as tendrils running down the side of the pile. As you add sand to the pile it gets higher and wider – the pile gets steeper and more little tendrils of red appear. Eventually you will see the tendrils of red start to interconnect.

If you drop a grain of sand on a red area then you will precipitate an avalanche. If the red area is interconnected with other red areas then all these areas will be drawn into the avalanche. If the red area is isolated, then the avalanche will be confined to one red tendril running down the side of the pile.

I think that our society (and potentially our civilization as a whole) is approaching the "critical angle". When you look at the level of social complexity we're living with, consider that the ever-increasing streamlining of our infrastructure is decreasing our resilience to shocks, factor in the degree to which power and wealth have been pumped out of general society into a power elite, then add in soaring energy and food costs and increasing climate instability, the results we're seeing now seem inevitable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Yep, and from a systems analysis the US is right now at 1859 too

but that is another discussion...

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

53. The Internet's online networks and rapid dessemination of information...

is the game changer.

I don't think we can compare revolutions of old to what's going on today, or the potential of what could happen today. Things have the capacity to shift overnight, globally, more than ever before.

For good or bad.

I choose a positive shift, with people realizing they're empowered. Let all the emperors be revealed as having no clothes.

:hi:

[girl gone mad]

54. Still support those bank bailouts..

or now do you see that the consequences are for real?

[peacetalksforall]

60. The ruling elite is where its at, but we don't agree on who they are.

They tell the politicians and the media what to do and they arrange what the banks should do direct to their corporation - the Federal Reserve. Everything they are planning is through their foundations and think tanks and institutions like The Council on Foreign Relations. They advocate population control, their ownership of us, and tight control over us. They are the ones with the plan to make us (US)a second or third world country - bring the other large countriies up and then level it all off except for the large countries and grouped countries (EU for example).

Knowing where to curb it all means everything to their successes. We must keep paying taxes on whatever income we have or new taxes, but not to the point of a a potato famine as they would not want diasporas.

We in the US are going down as they become more selfish and their accumulations of the earth riches, including humans meets their plan. Manufacturing is still on, therefore buying is still on, but others in the world have to realize and rise to the equivalent of our former big house and car dream and gain theirs. We are not going to see relief until we have fall point they have designated.

They are playing a balancing game and are probably meeting (through one or more of their acronym affiliations) to discuss the British riots if they were not already anticipated. The economic downfall of four of the smaller countries of the EU is by plan. The leaders of the all the EU nations are calling the shots along with the US and other countries. It's in their plan and they have a trail of pronouncements and you can figure out what is going on by decades old past or recent past.

We have to study.

[walldude]

67. K&R

You know what? In spite of all the shit that is falling I am looking forward to the next year. I thought the counter punches would start after the Net Neutrality vote but the damn hackers got the jump on me.

[shireen]

70. i hope you're right.

momentum can be hard to sustain.

[snot]

73. Unfortunately, I see few signs of the same unrest here in the U.S. --

even though we've more cause.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. How much will be covered by the media?

That is one reason you are not seeing it.

I remember tanks in LA in oh 2003 iirc... that was on INDYMEDIA... let me see if I can find it...



You'd think that would have been on CNN right? how about MSNBC? Perhaps ABC? Crickets...

So it is happening... just that you and I do not hear off it unless we go out of our way and outside the main stream.

[Rockholm]

84. The MSM media will not be present.

This will occur online and then the streets. My hunch is that once (and if) the Internets go down. then we will see the panic set in. Imagine if Tianamen Square was in the US, say Washington Square in NYC. People in Kansas would have had no idea what was happening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. I have a completely different view of this

and the timeline has moved forth...

Some places exactly what you said... others... (I am willign toi bet on Texas leading the way), secession.

[Rockholm]

90. Wouldn't surprise me.

Living in New England, I say let them go.

[Odin2005]

75. K&R +1,000,000,000,000

[cali]

79. there's always something major going on

[rucky]

81. As long as we're torching the right people.

There's so much conflation about who's responsible, there's no telling where this will lead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. That is what should worry people

as Clausewitz wrote... all plans break down when you make contact...

And i don;t care how noble the goals of revolution are... they tend to somehow break down along the way... until of course they find a new normal.

[cali]

85. you've been predicting this kind of thing

(revolution, civil war, the imminent collapse of.... everything) for years here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. that's it... buy bye...

I realize you will become unbrearable but quite frankly I don't have time for the children and you my dear are a two year old

[cali]

95. as ususal, you resort to nasty insults. rather ironic, really.

try a little self-control. I simply pointed out that you've been feverishly making apocalyptic predictions for years here.

I can't blame you for not wanting to be reminded of your poor track record.

[Catherina]

134. The signs have been there for years with the momentum building up to this

You don't think this just happened overnight, out of the blue, do you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Nah trends don't matter

I finally had it with the willfully ignorant, as well as well... stalker.

But truth be told these trends started oh for the US... back in 1996... a few, like the war against Labor, back in 1948 with Taft Hartley...

But the current acceleration of trends towards that precipice really took off in 2000... and it will get really ugly relatively soon, in historic terms.

But for some people, not even when the rocks and bullets start flying will they be able to see it... not until they have it happening in front of them... and perhaps, not even then.

[cali]

229. the signs are always there.

have always been there. Belief in the imminent collapse of society is a strong thread throughout western history- though it's certainly not limited to it. Secular apocalyptism really isn't very different from millenarianism, and is considered a part of the overall field.

Is it possible that there could be a total collapse of society leading (of course) to a total transformation? Sure. Is it likely or imminent? Doubtful. How can one know this? Studying the field. And yes it is actually a field of study.

But the elements that generally lead to a total collapse are not in place as of yet- not here and not in Great Britain or France. Even when the elements are all in place, there's no guarantee of collapse and transformation.

Empires end. Societies change dramatically. That's unquestionable. Predicting how and when? That's a rather fruitless endeavor, particularly from an academic viewpoint.

[butterfly77]

87. The REAL..

teaparty is finally ready to stand up:shrug:

[edbermac]

89. I heard they had a revolution in Russia in 1917.

That turned out well, didn't it? :sarcasm:

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Actually in some ways yes

the russia of 1917 had not gone through any kind of industrial revolution,. The Duma really fought it, and the reforms of 1905 were held back by a small little problem called the Japanese-Russian War, then followed by that other minor war called WW I.

I am not too happy as to the method used, after all the five year plans were brutal and millions of Kulaks did die in the 1930s... but Russia is an INDUSTRIAL state these days...

It has a few other problems but hey, corriuption is not new, nor is crime controlling major areas of the economy. Those are trends going back even farther than 1917... some all the way to the Middle Ages...

But i am not thinning that... rather 1848, which changed the nature of Europe, or for that matter 1968...

Oh and NOT ALL REVOLUTIONS are lefty ones either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

239. Russia???? Revolution???? Better????

My maternal and paternal grandparents got the Hell out of there after the 1905 revolution...

One hundred years later and it's still a fascist nation; albeit a more flexible form of fascism, tailored to the needs of the twenty first century...

[nadinbrzezinski]

301. I am talking of material needs

and Russia has been like that since oh at leaste Catherine... oh back in the seventeenth century... if not all the way back to Peter the Great.

Anybody who expected the total state to die does not understand Russian history.

[Darth_Kitten]

94. God I hope so!

The contempt shown to the middle class and poor in this world is mind-boggling. Everybody has a breaking point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Let's put it this way... british students

have crossed critical lines in sand today

[Darth_Kitten]

100. I love London......

:D

[the redcoat]

97. The biggest problem we have is

the size of the country makes "mobilization" very tough. Individual colleges and such could do this, but the effect would could be multiplied by having more colleges do it at the exact same time.

And on top of that, Americans are so lazy that we'd never have a successful protest against the tax breaks in DC simply because of how cold it is right now.

[Fearless]

99. When the younger wealthy start hurting we will see it pick up.

These things only work when it's gotten that bad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. We've had this happen in California and Texas

just bcuase your media does not report it does not mean it is not happening

[malaise]

101. The people of the planet will not sit by and suffer while

our governments subsidize the rich while demanding that our salaries be cut, our pensions destroyed and our children deprived of an education.

Fuck that!!!

By the way three ministers did not resign - three parliamentary private secretaries resigned.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/09/charles-camilla-car-attacked-fees-protest
<snip>

Two Liberal Democrat parliamentary private secretaries, Jenny Willott and Mike Crockart, and one Tory, Lee Scott, resigned in protest.For most of the day the protests in London, attended by several thousand – one protest group claimed as many as 30,000 –demonstrators, were tense but peaceful. Thousands were kettled within Parliament Square for several hours and unable to leave.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. I hate AP news, should have known better and checked on it

[malaise]

248. LOL

AP staff often get details wrong.

[treestar]

104. No, it's called life

You really want a revolution? it's not all that romantic in real terms. it would not just be entertainment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. What gave you that idea?

Noting trends doers not mean I want one.

For the record, I suspect I have been in quite a few more life and death situations than you will ever imagine... So I know exactly how not aromatic a revolution is. But trends, something a few folks here have trouble with... point to something larger than just a cyber riot, or a few riots in Europe.

Try that for a change.

Oh and isobar as the UK is concerned, a line in the sand was crossed today... not that you'd get that... after all we know the Royals gets attacked every day... it is just life.

:sarcasm:

We also know that every day we have the House of Representatives tell their chief executive to pack sand... again just life...

Nope, nothing to see here, move along.

There are days I wonder about the "moderates" in the party and just how much they slept through history... for that matter Americans in General.... but you sir, you did sleep in history class.

[Chico Man]

108. Oh give me a break

Everyone sitting in their home looking at some screens, watching cable news, cheering on the hackers. Throwing some cream at Prince Charles. Looking all tough in Congress, out for the little guy. What a crock of shit. Seriously.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Do you understand the term TRENDS right?

I don;t think so, have a good day

[Chico Man]

116. The trend is laziness

You speak of revolution? Sure, the American Idol comment is right. As long as people have a couch, TV, computer, fattening food.. there will be no revolution. Life is as it always has been: grossly unequal. Oh but the internet will save us!!! Riiight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. I am not speaking of revolution, you are

I'm noting trends...

Nor have I said that this riot is a revolution YET... just larger than a riot.

Crack a history book or something... on two very different periods in World History.

1848 and 1968... there might be some parallels there...

What is it that Santahyanna wrote something about history repeating and all that crap?

[Chico Man]

125. As many people as there are unemployed

..or generally unhappy about the situation worldwide, there are still many many many more people employed, happily, doing what they love, and simply wishing for things to be relatively stable, moving in a positive direction, and generally peaceful across the world.

There will always be wars, poverty, injustice. Is some internet born revolution, juiced from hackers, intelligence leaks, college kid riots, or narcicistic two faced politicians going to make the world a better place? No! Really the answer is absolutely not. True, it is a twisted world we live in, and all this media frenzied, spur-of-the-moment press gets everyone on the interwebs all into a frenzy, but what is the result? Nothing. Absolutely nothing, but a giant waste of electricity spent on people preaching to whatever choir it is that they belong to, from the comfort of their own heated, electrified, internet-abled, home.

The internet is turning out to be a double edged sword, politically. Sure, fundraising is so easy, organization of people is so easy. but when all is said and done, this technology is so distanced from what makes us human. The ability to even have the electricity to power the computer and the internet connection and the education to be able to build these sites and talk back and forth are a pretty good indication of where we are as a society today: far more advanced and well off than at any other time in the history of the planet.

Take it all away and maybe we can talk revolution. Let the roads degrade to a state that you need 4wd to get from one side of the city to another. Let electricity and gasoline be the luxury it is. Until people truly start to suffer, this is all just self induced drama that makes no difference whatsoever. It is simply entertainment: the feel good entertainment of the 21st century.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. what part of TRENDS are people incapable of understanding?

Agains open a history book and we are mor ethan just done... have a good day.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PassingFair]

269. Don't bother with that one....he's a lotus eater.

[MilesColtrane]

271. McD's 99¢ Double Cheeseburger and TMZ

Bread and Circuses

[eleny]

112. "Their prosperity" isn't quite working out for the Money Class today

[Delphinus]

114. Sure hope you are right!

Way past time.

[GliderGuider]

123. As we say in Canada

"Fuckin' eh!" :thumbsup:

[Delphinus]

128. Hey, old friend!

Long time, no see! :hug:

Hope you are doing well. :)

[GliderGuider]

140. Hi yourself!

I'm doing shockingly well. I'm turning 60 tomorrow in the company of my twin flame, a woman I lost connection with almost 30 years ago - I haven't been this happy in my whole life. And now it looks as though the world has decided to hold a revolution to celebrate my birthday! Life is grand

I hope the universe is being kind to you too! :hug:

[Mike 03]

130. Interesting, to say the least.

Thank you for yet another post paying great attention to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. thanks, it seems trends are accelerating

I am not sure if they can be turned back or not at this point.

Me, need to go find my books on the Mexican 1968 and of course Ashubury Road in San Fran.

[GliderGuider]

143. In 1968 I was lucky enough to spend May in Paris and July in Prague.

I have a soft spot for popular uprisings for freedom. This has a very, very familiar feeling to it. I still have two Latin Quarter cobblestones that I picked up from a barricade -- I think I'm going to start meditating on them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. Ah lucky you

I was a babe, of three in Mexico City... but heard plenty of stories from first hand witnesses as well, after the fact.

And had the honor of meeting Poniatowska as an 18 year old.

[Matariki]

197. Beautiful.

That's just really beautiful. Life is good, no?

[DeltaLitProf]

230. And was the government that came in afterward a liberal one?

n/t

[GliderGuider]

251. No, and neither was the one that was there before.

IMO there are no truly liberal governments anywhere - the requirements of governing preclude true liberalism. The real value of the occasional uprising is not to change governments so much as to make them afraid of the citizens and to remind them who they work for.

[Mike 03]

131. And kick and rec. NT

NT

[Wednesdays]

138. K&R

:kick:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

139. K&R

[lonestarnot]

146. Welcome to the revolution and it will not be televised.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. Not yet, as I said in the OP

but we are well on our way...

The trends have significantly accelerated... and soon, perhaps now, have reached the point of no return.

Ain't it fun? Some of us have seen this coming for years.

[glinda]

215. I have felt it for years. Things are going faster also. There is tension in everything including

the planet. It is inevitable because physical chaos is also coming and has laid bare lands, strife, theft for all to see. Well almost for all to see... wikileaks. : > )

[underseasurveyor]

149. if ever there was a better time.. now would be it

The air is ripe and the people are primed for tossing out the tired, old broken system.

[tomp]

150. revolt in congress? we'll see.

i hope you're right, but I'm not putting any faith in ANYONE in govt. who doesn't break from the democrats.

i suspect we will see a new "compromise" that appears to be a win for the dems but really isn't much better than the original version.

or the dems will just cave again.

as for the rest of the world, i think they may be smarter than us, but on the other hand, we're all in trouble.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. What happened today is off

it is not even funny.

But in the end it will be up to us.

I am just connecting the trends... really... this is part of a trend, and one of dysfunction.

[rucky]

266. Bigger than Congress

it IS the rest of the world, and they are smarter than us, or at least tougher. Fortunately the battleground of this fight is global and the US happens to be a big part of it. Borders haven't mattered to festering plutocracy that the western hemisphere is (not coincidentally) all facing right now, so it's only a fair fight once WE start pulling together beyond our borders, as well.

I think we can credit Wikileaks for expanding the battleground for us. Speaking for myself, it doesn't seem as overwhelming and isolated for us Americans anymore.

[midnight]

155. You are not alone in feeling that the masses are waking up,

and saying no more.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. It is not quite revolution YET, but trends that some of us

have spoken off are accelerating. I just didn't realize how global they'd be.

[proud patriot]

158. I feel it too

shoulder to shoulder my friend :headbang:

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. Trust me, having been there done that

if this hits worst case, I am not celebrating... but it is time to severely stock up on rice and other things.

[proud patriot]

171. Been stocking for awhile now here @ proud patriot's pad

rice,sugar,coffee,flour,beans. Canned goods water. Fuel for cooking
we have a well. etc.....

Not celebrating, just surviving !

[DeSwiss]

159. K&R

Look up.......

[riverbendviewgal]

162. You should read what Joe Bageant wrote.

"What America really needs is a wall-to-wall people's insurrection, preferably based on force and fear of force, the only thing oligarchs understand. And even then the odds are not good. The oligarchs have all the legal power, police, jails and prisons, surveillance and firepower. Not to mention a docile populace.
Shy of open insurrection, a nationwide refusal to pay income taxes would certainly shake things up. But broader America is happy in the sense they know happiness as an undisturbed regimen of toil, stress and commodity consumption. Despite the way it looks in the news, most Americans remain untouched by foreclosure, bankruptcy and unemployment. So risking loss of their work-buy-sleep cycle in an insurrection looks to be sheer lunacy to them. Like cows, they are kept comfortable in the pure animal sense to be milked for profit. Animal comfort kills all thoughts of revolution. Hell, half of mankind would be thrilled with the average American's present material situation."

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/12/america-y-ur-peeps-b-so-dum.html




This is just a thumbnail....much more to read....He is so right.. but the last line he writes is what the message is all about, people...

[nadinbrzezinski]

164. I admire the man for his work and I think it is coming

a lot is not reported, and both of us know it.

But I think it is coming.

Oh and unlike him, having been there done that, I am not looking forwards to it... or rather I am but I am not.

[riverbendviewgal]

166. I'm a refugee from America

I came to Canada in 1969 . I'm now a Canadian citizen.

I really believe that worst times are coming. It's in the air. Even in Canada...We have Harper.

[nadinbrzezinski]

167. Yes, it is having that feel...

1968 in some ways all over.

[glitch]

181. I think of Canada as the Austria of the New American Century.

And I am so very sorry. :hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

184. The American century is so much over

it is not even funny...

:-)

And Canada will be better off than we, after we fall on our faces, officially that is.

[glitch]

187. I wish I had your optimism. ;) nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

188. That it is over?

We have gone already through several critical markers... and for those of us trapped in the asylum will NOT be fun.

[Raksha]

342. Thanks for the link. I read the Joe Bageant article

and posted the link on another forum. He's brilliant--meaning I usually agree with him! :)

[unkachuck]

163. K&R....n/t

[bluedigger]

169. At some point something has to give.

You can't just continue to concentrate wealth indefinitely without the system breaking down eventually. I think we are a few years out yet, maybe in the next ten years, but the signs are there, as you have noted. The big question is, as always, where do we go from here?

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. I think it is going to be sooner than ten years

in the US in particular it is going to get really, REALLY, bad when the fall of empire, well under way, is official. That could be, depending on events in DC, as early as the debt ceiling vote this Spring.

Hell, the Armed Services bill that failed today might be a real marker too.

[Matariki]

213. Do you know anything about what things were like when the Soviet Union fell?

From what I've heard there was a period of chaos and anarchy. Thugs basically roaming neighborhoods and taking what they wanted. People giving up their homes and living in their garages in exchange for 'protection'.

I really hope things don't come to that here. Some responsible elected officials would really remedy things. But that seems a long way off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

214. Oh absolutely

and fortunately it was short

Here I expect break up quite honestly.

[Matariki]

217. Here a whole lot more of the population has guns.

And given the demographic most often interested in guns....

[nadinbrzezinski]

218. I expect civil war

and the break up into successor states...

[Lost-in-FL]

173. Coworkers: The police should tear gas the crap out of them.

Me: Actually, if Americans would go France on politicians asses over taxes for the rich in a way that it could instill fear on corporations and government, we wouldn't be in the place we are in as a nation right now..

coworkers: :crickets:

[nadinbrzezinski]

176. It will happen here too

soon.

We are circling the drain as empire, so that is adding a certain... shall we say... interesting part to the dynamic.

[burrowowl]

174. I sure as hell

hope so!
And may the US of A grow a pair and B(ody) O(dor) as well!

[pitchforksandtorches]

175. NT

[sam sarrha]

180. they raised fees from $5000 a year to $15.000 in the middle of the school year

[nadinbrzezinski]

183. It is NOT JUST London

there is Italy as well. The workers revolt in Paris... it goes on and on... greece... I am sure I am forgetting events.

[tomg]

226. I am in Italy teaching. Things are

taking place, if not as massively as in the UK.

[muriel_volestrangler]

242. Not sure 'the middle of the school year' means much - the rise takes effect from Sept 2012

Unless 'the middle of the school year' was just to point out the students are all together at university, rather than being on vacation.

[BigBearJohn]

194. They they bring out a microwave weapon that can be deployed against crowds from aircraft

The United States military is still researching a controversial microwave weapon that could be deployed against crowds from aircraft.

The US military is to increase funding for the Active Denial System (ADS) from $2mil to $10mil despite the controversy surrounding the weapon. The ADS is described by the Pentagon as a 'non-lethal weapon' and is intended to be used a crowd control device.

The ADS works by using microwaves to heat the skin, in theory without burning it, to produce a sensation that causes crowds to flee. However, a Dortmund University researcher, Jurgen Altmann, found that microwave beams cause serious burns at levels marginally above those required to repel crowds.

It is believed that the US military intention is to develop the technology so that it can be used on crowds from aircraft above. With political and economic unrest in many countries, the development of novel weapons against crowds is of particular concern to many activists. A weapon of this nature could be employed against picket lines and factory occupations, particularly given the history of repression by various states on political protestors, trade unionists and recently, the G20 protests in London.


Source: http://libcom.org/news/us-military-researching-non-lethal-microwave-crowd-control-weapons-26072009

[nadinbrzezinski]

198. People will get creative

[upi402]

222. Human rights were violated in the Battle in Seattle

and that was well before Bushco. Grab a tarp and have water ready, I bet this will need to get really messy -at this late point.


Oh, and it will be televised about as accurately as Venezuelan coup.

[nadinbrzezinski]

223. People will die

That is the truth... And it sickens me.

[Recursion]

235. And, for once, tinfoil hats will have a purpose... (nt)

[stevenleser]

353. There would be no need, our ideological opposites have all the guns...

the government could simply stand back, let the freepers and tea partiers gun progressives down and then usher in a far right government.

Progressives who advocate revolution would do well to remember two things. The right wing has many, many more guns than we do, and the military also leans right. Those two things do not add up to a successful outcome for progressives in any sort of uprising.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

196. Legions Anonymous

power in numbers

[TheMuse]

311. We are legion

[indimuse]

231. V

knr!

[20score]

232. K&R!

[ipaint]

233. I live in a working class/working poor area and I was at the laundromat

yesterday. I have been going there once a week for 3 years. I encounter mostly people who are low income and poor who don't have washers or dryers like me.

A discussion started among a couple people which grew to most of the laundromat customers about a dozen) regarding the tax cuts for the rich, corporations that don't pay taxes, the lack of jobs (most people can't find steady work) and some real anger and frustration at those in government.

First time ever I had heard this subject brought up. Some of their facts where off but the gist was spot on and people are fucking pissed and they know exactly who is responsible.

Anecdotal but none the less a change and it won't take much to get this group on the streets.
In my neighborhood we have houses for sale everywhere, one abandoned house on each block and many people with either no or inadequate work.

All it's going to take is people understanding they are not alone. Those numbers will grow as the suffering continues and news of others fighting back en masse increases. TPTB destroyed the idea of real community between classes in this country and we need to get it back.

[Enthusiast]

240. Apparently people are choosing

up sides for the upcoming struggle. Consumerism is unsustainable, from both an energy standpoint and a pollution standpoint. The U.S. economy and our living standard cannot withstand a steady-state of war(duh). Resources around the globe are becoming scare exacerbating these realities. And, as we are learning, apparently greed has no limits. Corporations appear to have decided to use their windfalls to amass ever more more power and influence. 'This' almost certainly can't end well.

[rasputin1952]

246. People the world over are pissed off...

and I can't blame them.

I remember Novak's clarion call, "Class Warfare!", to which I would shout back at the TV..."Damn right you smarmy son of a bitch!" The massive majority of people on this earth are eking out a living when they should be relatively comfortable and be able to pay their bills and save a little. Worldwide, that has changed considerably since the corporations have their hands in virtually every aspect of world affairs. The "too big to fail" has people terrified that we could be in economic collapse and what we consider "Third World" countries might actually do better in the future because the ties to huge corp's and banks is limited...and, they know how to grow their own food, (something many of the developed countries have pretty well left behind, except as more of a hobby).

The clowns in the upper tier that control so much think they have the answers to world problems, but time after time they have brought the world to the brink of collapse because they try to control every aspect of life, what ever gave the ultra wealthy the notion they somehow "know better" is beyond me, but the cruel fact is, at this point, they are doing what wars couldn't, consolidating world power and gaining control over vast expanses of the world through their economies.

Europe is ahead of us in realizing that things have to change, and they are willing to go violent to bring about that change. I don't think the Royalty on GB is to blame, but they are a focal point...just as here, in GB and the rest of Europe have begun to realize that the true villains in all of this are the extremely wealthy that don't have a clue about how the rest of the world is literally dying on the streets.

Toppling political disasters is one thing...but people are going to take Class Warfare seriously enough to bring down the huge corps and dismantle the monsters that have been created. While I am all for this, I don't think violence is the answer, (except storming the Ivory Castles and dragging out CEO's, CFO's and the like and tarring and feathering them, then seizing their assets and distributing them to alleviate problems in poverty, (cast the bastards adrift so they know what it's like to be "without", deserted islands w/o communication are an option as well...:evilgrin:

[tcaudilllg]

316. I'm all for making corporate execs poor!

[Locrian]

249. interesting developments - thanks

Heh, and one thing I've seen over my many years here, is that when nadinbrzezinski notices a trend - it's best to wake up and at least take a look.

I think these events could really be the start of something. At the LEAST they are showing others that they are not alone.

[snappyturtle]

250. Fascinating op. I am 63. I was a junior at a Big Ten university and

was a anti-war protester in the 60's and, of course, in 1968. The 'uneasiness' in the air is analogous to the

late sixties but this change is morphing into something much larger. The global culmination of knowledge and

access to that knowledge is feeding the change. One of the issues learned is the complete contempt that TPTB

have (and have long held) for those 'under' them; stunning to say the least.


Citizens of the world don't have a choice anymore to rise up or not; it's a matter of survival. That's why I

think the 'discontentment' we're seeing will bleed into a revolution.

[GliderGuider]

254. I share that outlook completely.

I turn 60 today, and have been around social change movements since the days of SNCC. I agree that the global PTB have consolidated their sense of entitlement and their contempt for the citizens in a way we may not have seen since feudal times. Information flow is the game-changer, and that's why Wikileaks is the pivot-point. A revolution is on its way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

302. We are niot there yet

but those kids screaming "OFF WITH 'EIR 'EADS!" was something I am sure Charles did not miss.

If memory serves last time that was heard in London was with oh Charles I... back during the Glorious Revolution... Been a while since then.

[snappyturtle]

346. I realize we're not there yet....hence speaking about the revolution in the future tense. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

350. I know these trends could still turn

around... I have no idea when they will be beyond the point of no return.

[Turbineguy]

255. Supposedly all this is linked to 2012.

Maybe the Mayan calender did not just run out of space.

The US will probably rebel by electing Sarah Palin.

[secondwind]

256. I was thinking that this morning. I'm not a spring chicken. I'll take to streets if I have to.

[Iterate]

327. Funny that you would mention that,

as I've been wondering too if the "rock throwing" arm would be up to it. We're more dangerous to them in other ways, but then there's that thought of the "gazelle" moment when the police realize you're the slowest one in the crowd.

[Mr. Mustard]

257. One can only hope.

[Demoiselle]

258. Have you got a link for the Minister resignations?

I'd like to read more...google search is useless. I googled Cameron cabinet resignations and got an article from the NYTimes in 1862!

[nadinbrzezinski]

303. As it was pointed to me above by Malaise

AP got it wrong... it wasn't ministers but a three minor members

[Demoiselle]

323. Ah, thanks. I'll never blame google again. (nt)

[Hubert Flottz]

259. Good

It's about time.

[rocks]

260. I would love to get off my backside

Now where do you need me and who will provide for my family when I get arrested and become entangled in our treacherous legal system?

[Joanne98]

261. YAY! I'm ready nadinbrzezinski!

:)

[Clear Blue Sky]

262. There's something happening here...

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

[GliderGuider]

265. +1000

[madmax]

287. :-)

[OneGrassRoot]

291. Awesomeness. :) n/t

[sallysense]

280. (for wikileaks and the u.s.a!)....

(for wikileaks and the u.s.a.!)...

in a land where a country's high leaders lay claim...
united states people stand feeling close pain...
their ears hear those big shots come up with excuses...
but a quick look around soon reveals where the truth is!...

from vacant lot store fronts to more soldiers' graves...
home planted sale signs hide mailbox names!...
college loan paybacks tack federal debt...
while industrial workers learn of layoffs they'll get!...

from stress-filled environments to lone chilly rooms...
paycheck to paycheck can't face future doom!...
already our seniors and jobless and ill...
view less options left with so few dollar bills!...

this is our country folks!... see for yourselves!...
the majority are us and most everyone else!...
struggling with hardships under all those in charge!...
as governmental misbehavior runs rampant at large!...

why is it our leaders dislike these truths shown?...
is it not we the people who deserve rights to know?!...
when did government's first duty become serving the government?!...
and not justly the people for whom they were sent!...

how can leaders say 'patriot' means being patriotic to them?...
when they won't play by the rules a constitution defends!...
instead it is them who lack the patriotism...
to stop their own underhand tactics which bring further bad things!...

and how can leaders use terrorism as an overall reason?...
to keep their own bully methods hidden somewhere in secret?!...
they intimidate unfairly to sway public opinion...
and steer clear of truth needed to fix dilemmas we're in!...

this is our country folks!... see for yourselves!...
the majority are us and most everyone else!...
struggling with hardships under all those in charge!...
as governmental misbehavior runs rampant at large!...

how can government's deception be the best way to rule?...
when that curve of its wrist bends most fair and square tools!...
hence without accountability it'll feed a free-for-all!...
as our country's representatives wheel and deal above the law!...

it's no surprise that the government abhors wikileaks!...
truth might hinder the officials soon from doing as they please!...
and make it more difficult to reassure u.s. citizens...
not to fret government's business and leave it all up to them!...

but we must tend to our nation and future well-being!...
to end unjust procedures and the policies we're seeing!...
they insist we believe in things proven untrue!...
now we need these disclosures to help build anew!...

this is our country folks!... see for yourselves!...
the majority are us and most everyone else!...
struggling with hardships under all those in charge!...
as governmental misbehavior runs rampant at large!...

support wikileaks!... http://wikileaks.ch

the best of wishes'n'ways'n'todays to bring fair'n'square and care!... :)

(shared this elsewhere and just wanna share it here too)...

[upi402]

283. Thank you for that

I'm not usually a poetry fan (Henry Rollins aside) - but that was good.

[fadedrose]

284. It'll come when...

they cut Social Security too much;

they cut Medicare;

they cut child care, food stamps, and medicaid;

they cut school programs - college, tuitions, lunches, etc..

they ask younger adults to care for children and the elderly in their own homes even at the risk of losing their jobs to do it.

You'll see a march.

The best way to convert the USA to socialism to to keep taking things away from the people and giving to the wealthy. Could there be a clever progressive plot afoot, no pain no gain, like Superman said?

[davidwparker]

288. Yes !!!!

[Swampguana]

290. If enough people make a stand they will listen.

We should do the same as those students here on our own soil.

[pleah]

295. About damn time!

[Scurrilous]

300. I can feel it!

It's hugh. And series!!1!

[L. Coyote]

305. Yeah, Republicans are gaining seats in Congress.

And money is ruling the USA. That's major alright.

[tcaudilllg]

315. It's what in analytic psychology you would call a "progressive animus uprising"

-- meaning, a sense of pervasive apprehension and vulnerability, coped with through mass cooperative revolt. That Assange is being prosecuted by the U.S. in spite of the Pentagon Papers ruling, is proof that society is not willing to stand up for progressive activists. Thus the social contract is under stress.

But it is breaking because there is a sense that there is an immediate, encroaching "monster" that is reaching out to strangle defiance. It's not that people are rich... it's that the rich people who have the power, are obsessed with exercising it to hurt the disadvantaged. Fox New's charismatic sociopaths may be a key part of this, but the weakness of Obama is also a factor. In the UK, idiocy is overtaking society, so there is immediate cause for alarm. That seems to be the primary issue: pervasive idiocy that may or may not be fueled by the survival, via advanced medical technology, of people whom evolution would have preferred to have killed off at this point in their lives. More crazies = more violence.

[CLANG]

317. Move along now, nothing to see here...

:eyes: :shrug:

[duhneece]

321. Even inmates are learning to organize

In an action which is unprecedented on several levels, black, brown and white inmates of Georgia's notorious state prison system are standing together for a historic one day peaceful strike today, during which they are remaining in their cells, refusing work and other assignments and activities. This is a groundbreaking event not only because inmates are standing up for themselves and their own human rughts, but because prisoners are setting an example by reaching across racial boundaries which, in prisons, have historically been used to pit oppressed communities against each other. PRESS RELEASE BELOW THE FOLD

The action is taking place today in at least half a dozen of Georgia's more than one hundred state prisons, correctional facilities, work camps, county prisons and other correctional facilities. We have unconfirmed reports that authorities at Macon State prison have aggressively responded to the strike by sending tactical squads in to rough up and menace inmates.

Outside calls from concerned citizens and news media will tend to stay the hand of prison authorities who may tend to react with reckless and brutal aggression. So calls to the warden's office of the following Georgia State Prisons expressing concern for the welfare of the prisoners during this and the next few days are welcome.

http://blackagendareport.com/?q=content/ga-prison-inmates-stage-1-day-peaceful-strike-today

[nadinbrzezinski]

322. Now that is impressive

at multiple levels

To use a furiegner word... the zeitgeist of the times is changing like quick sand under our feet.

[mstinamotorcity]

324. It was not only in England

They were rioting in China just a few months ago and maybe right now. But you know media control. Iran they were rioting there. And there are still reports coming out of Iran about Demonstrations.Wasn't Germany also not too long ago. How long has it been going on in Israel,West bank,Gaza Strip? It may have stared years ago but it is coming to America. And it won't be the way Billionaires boys club thinks it will be.

[colsohlibgal]

329. Time To Push Back Hard

I really hope this is a tipping point, it's an uphill battle, the greedheads are well entrenched. But every great movement needs to start somewhere.

[Iterate]

330. I wonder what the maximum theoretical limit is for a flash mob.

What I mean is, how embarrassing it would be to the ptb if 100,000 rude guests showed up uninvited?

[TheWatcher]

333. As you said to me, dear nadin, "It's On."

We can only hope that it will grow, and something good will come out of it.

Let the dam break.

And the TV Watchers, Handwringers, gatekeepers, Message Controllers, the Incurious, Propagandists, willfully ignorant, the cowed, the "Good, Compliant Citizens", the unreachable, The Go-Alongs, and "Theater" Addicts will continue to do as they do.

Maybe if they ever come out their hypnosis and compromised state, they'll wake up to a new, better world.

We can still hope.

It Is Time.

[TheMuse]

335. This!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

336. kick

[LanternWaste]

340. I do believe you're right.

I do believe you're right. I also believe the it is quite similar to the Revolutions of '48.

The outcomes of each of those regional revolutions were as varied as their numbers. The outcomes of each of these current events will also be quite varied I imagine.

But on the whole, there was only a small number of real social and national problems that induced the revolutions in Europe, as it also seems there are very few (yet very real) reasons things seem to be speeding up in the here and now.

Yes. There is something happening. Something indeed. :hi:


ed sp

[jefferson_dem]

351. Your fantasies appear to be taking over your reality.

These are indeed "interesting" times but let's not get carried away, eh.

[Name removed]

352. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

354. Kick

For the revolution!!1!

:kick:

[Name removed]

355. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.