Third Way says we don't get it...says takes more courage to anger your "friends"

[madfloridian]

than to anger your adversary.

Yes, that is correct. I do not "get it" at all. Another in the many attempts to marginalize those of us who demand we stop compromising on our main values.

Tax deal displays Obama’s backbone

Bill Clinton had his “Sister Souljah moment,” when he admonished an African-American rap singer, in front of an audience that included the Rev. Jesse Jackson, over lyrics that seemed to countenance race-based killing. President Richard M. Nixon, in the middle of the Cold War, secretly plotted a badly needed rapprochement with communist China. And President Harry S. Truman faced down the steel industry and striking workers.
In each case, their actions were met with howls of protest, editorial derision — and sharp accusations of betrayal from their base voters. And in each case, the politician emerged in a strengthened position.

Did President Barack Obama “punt on third down” as Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) lamented? Or did the president have a clarifying moment when he announced a tax cut compromise that caught many Democrats off guard and infuriated progressive organizations?

Read that first paragraph several times. Every word is meant to picture the Democrats' base as unworthy.

It was a deal, to paraphrase Bruce Springsteen, which everyone could love and hate in a single sound. But it’s the criticism from Obama’s base that stings the most. Democrats of nearly every stripe argued that the president should have stood up and fought harder for a better deal. He had campaigned against the Bush tax cuts, they argued, and he owed it to his base — and all Americans — to stick to that promise for as long as possible. Coupled with some other high-profile skirmishes in which the president demonstrated ideological and governing flexibility — particularly when he scotched the public option from health care reform — some of the left’s loudest voices have begun to question Obama’s backbone.

Simply put: They don’t get it. It takes much more courage and backbone to anger your friends — over a principled disagreement — than your adversaries.

So there it is in a nutshell. According to Third Way he had to do it. He had to show his "backbone" and courage by angering his friends.

No, I don't get it at all.

[Occam Bandage]

1. The situations aren't remotely comparable.

It takes backbone to follow your beliefs, even if that means declaring that your friends are wrong. However, that isn't what Obama did. Obama did not declare that Democrats are wrong on taxes for the rich. Instead, he declared that Democrats are right, but that he had to do what was wrong because he was in too weak a position to do what was right. It takes no strength to capitulate.

[griffi94]

6. it is kind of hard to take

in one breath he says the majority of americans are on his side and in the next breath he changes sides and votes against them. then he gets pissed at them for noticing he flip flopped.

i guess i'll just never understand double secret invisible chess.

[704wipes]

39. double top secret invisible 3D chess that is !!

nice one

[madfloridian]

13. The Third Way did not have to print stuff like this.

There has been too much of it.

And you are right, it takes no courage or strength to capitulate.

It's much harder to stand up for principles.

[TBF]

32. Maybe Obama is standing up for his principles? They just happen to differ from our own. nt

[madfloridian]

34. Not acceptable. His principles seem to be those of the right wing.

Not acceptable.

And the way he called his own party's base "sanctimonious" told us all we need to know about his views toward those who elected him.

[Kall]

40. Forget our own.

They differ from his 2008 principles.

[pattmarty]

48. Yeah, so different from mine that I am not going to vote for him again.

[TBF]

50. I feel the same way - I am horrified that I worked on his campaign in 2008. nt

[jtown1123]

53. Third Way is funded by huge corporations. I cannot take them seriously.

http://firedoglake.com/2010/12/07/pbs-newshour-third-way-mainstreams-corporatism-using-progressive-rhetoric/

[Vincardog]

2. You don't understand he HATE confrontation, that is why he only confronts people that support him

get it? That way he doesn't have to face any REAL opposition

[Bluerthanblue]

4. that's just bull. total bull-

and you know it.

Or you should if you don't.

He's likely faced more confrontation that many here at DU.

This is getting absurd.

[Vincardog]

8. Please show me ONE time he stood up the the GOP since being sworn in.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. that is not what you said- you said

"You don't understand he HATE confrontation, that is why he only confronts people that support him
get it? That way he doesn't have to face any REAL opposition"

He faced a hell of alot of opposition from those he confronted in the primary and in the general election. And he DID confront his opponents, not rudely, not in a fit of temper like McCain often did, but he confronted them none the less.

He was able to get health care reform passed. It wasn't the bill I wanted it to be, but it was an incredible accomplishment none the less. The republicans were dead set against the bill if you recall- and it was pretty ugly with them after it passed, but it did pass.

He isn't a combattive, aggressive person. That doesn't mean he doesn't have courage or convictions.

For you to claim that is just plain absurd.

[Vincardog]

55. He passed a health insurance bill that was a gift to the insurance companies. Again please show me

one time that he stood up to the GOP.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DeSwiss]

18. The only thing that's absurd......

...are people who still don't get it. You're being played.

[chervilant]

19. hmph!!

It's beyond absurd! This is a huge load of crap!!!

Obama should just be honest and change his party affiliation.

[laughingliberal]

3. K & R nt

[glitch]

5. Sounds like they're scraping the rationalization barrel.

And replace "anger" with "betrayal".

How much courage does it take to betray your relatively powerless friends to your powerful "adversaries".

You don't get it because it is failed logic, morals and ethics.

[madfloridian]

11. Yes, it is pure rationalization. And BS

[suffragette]

17. Paging Swamp Rat

That would be a great graphic.
So on point.

[OHdem10]

7. Why not just once anger the advesaries and let us see and

compare.

Third way is very messed up in their thinking. It is not
courage. It is cowardice. Hit your friends in order to
make new ones. This goes against principles. Old friends
are gold, I thought.

Triangulation developed by Dick Morris is unprincipled.
It may work if all you want is Republican Legislation.

Bill Clinton got a lot of Republican Legislation once he
tiangulated.

On the other side, if we had a Congress especially a Senate
who could stand together on most important legislation, the
President would not have to triangulate.
Getting the Senate to produce votes seems impossible, therefore
we will get Republican Legislation.

[SteveM]

9. Either progressive Democrats re-organize the Party, or become irrelevent...

There is no longer any disputation on whether or not the Democratic Party has failed. The question is whether rank-and-file members are willing to:

(1) Clearly define what they are about, philosophically and ideologically;
(2) Formulate a plan to take control of the Democratic Party within the next 2 years (or go the 3rd party "route"); and
(3) Run tough, hard-hitting candidates willing to take on the GOP and corporate/international policy.

The biggest problem (culturally and politically) to the above:

The lack of substitute for the old mass media model (Big-3 T.V., radio, big dailies, Top-40) which formerly formed community -- and thereby legitimacy -- to direct public policy. With the new digital models there is a lot of talk about "potential," but little in-your-hand or on-the-ground recognition that a broad community exists to convey a message (let alone a political philosophy) to fellow Americans.

As a starter for comprehending these problems, I would suggest we should be talking very soon to the Tea Party members (they are in the street, after all).

[bobbolink]

14. EXCELLENT post! PLEASE make this an OP!

Please!?

[Catherina]

21. +10,000 n/t

[Vincardog]

56. OF course the tea baggers are a creation of the corporate owned media, funded by the billionaires we

have to oppose

[madfloridian]

15. Message is that confronting and/or betraying your base makes you stronger...

as a political leader.

That is just an insanely stupid message. I find it pretty insulting that the Third Way thought it would be effective.

I just read the Google news front page headlines. The right wing is quiet because they are too busy laughing at us to speak.

[chervilant]

23. Laughing

openly and loudly; pointing their fingers and snorting.

As I said upthread, this is BEYOND absurd! What does Obama think he's accomplishing by insulting the progressives in the Democratic Party?!

As you already know, mad, Obama lost my support when he appointed Arne to dismantle public education, then chided teachers for 'being resistant to change.'

[EFerrari]

26. It's pseudo logical. Not to mention, there is no principle involved

in continuing to harm the economy on the backs of working people to appease your rich backers.

[madfloridian]

16. Third Way says they are "leading moderate think tank of progressive movement"

"Who We Are

Third Way is the leading moderate think-tank of the progressive movement. Our aims: an economic agenda that is focused on growth and middle class success; a culture of shared values; a national security approach that is both tough and smart; and a clean energy revolution. We create high-impact products for use by elected officials, candidates and the Administration.

Our team is comprised of a former White House deputy and agency chief of staff, senior congressional aides, policy experts, nonprofit leaders and campaign veterans. We are governed by a prominent private sector Board of Trustees. We also have a dozen elected officials who serve as honorary co-chairs. Three of our former chairs now serve in the senior ranks of the Obama administration: Health & Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, and Under-Secretary of State Ellen Tauscher."

That is an abuse of the word progressive. The centrist think tanks have done this for years and years.

Sick of it.

[DeSwiss]

20. K&R

Booze, rage and justice in the participation age

It is now clear to me that the people's rage is a tool in the hands of the new electronic and digital corporate state. Its various channels, eddies and pools, regardless of type, can be directed toward all sorts of mischief and profit. Left or right, the angry throngs on both sides can be managed and directed. They can be sent chasing various injustices, denouncing evil characters on Wall Street, Times Square bombers, BP executives, or whatever, worked up into slobbering outrage over Sarah Palin, and thus kept divided and working against each other for the benefit of last gasp capitalism.

Once outside the furious drek of American political and economic life, and having finished the last book I will ever write, I found myself asking: "Why did the good in the American people not triumph? How can it be that so many progressive, justice-loving citizens failed? Their positions were well reasoned. The facts were indisputably on their side. Obviously, there was, and is, more going on than merely losing battles to demagoguery and meanness. Why do we lose the important fights so consistently? What has kept us from establishing a more just kingdom? Something is missing.

I think it is, in a word, the spiritual. The stuff that sustained Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and gave them the kind of calm deliberate guts we are not seeing today. I am not talking about religion, but the spirit in each of us, that solitary non-material essence, none the less shared by all humans because we are human. When we let our capitalist overlords cast everything in a purely material light -- as material gain or loss for one group or another -- we played the oppressor's game.

It was always a game with no vision. Just good guys, bad guys, pissed off people, or apathetic disenfranchised ones, amid one helluva lot of money changing hands. Mostly the wrong hands. That game drives us to the petty larcenies we perform against one another in the name employment, and the atrocities abroad to which none of us lay our rightful claim as beneficiaries of the empire's pillage. Our purposeful blindness to such things necessarily eliminates any universal vision. All the best ones are universal.

Yet down inside human beings is a love of justice. Honestly. The psyche seeks balance, and therefore seeks justice. Regardless of the perversion of its definition, and therefore the laws, by those who own nearly all of our country and damned well intend to own the rest, we know.

~ http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Blogging toward the Kingdom"

[Catherina]

22. Another pearl post from you. Rec'd n/t

[Jefferson23]

24. We don't get it because there is nothing to get. This is a bullshit

excuse by Third Way to try and convince you there is no other way. It's suppose to be a coincidence
this political mind set never gets angry..just excuses. I wonder sometimes what, if anything, they do get upset about..they
and Obama seem to posses an unlimited capacity to relinquish authority/power.

I don't buy it any longer, not after listening to Obama on this tax issue. He did not even feign a fight imo.

[MadHound]

25. Oh I get it,

We're just getting softened up for when Obama betrays that ultimate Democratic ideal, Social Security. This is only round one.

[myrna minx]

27. K&R. We're being gas-lighted by our own party. n/t

[w4rma]

28. The Third Way is nothing but Wall Street sabotours. (nt)

[w4rma]

29. … nt

[defendandprotect]

30. There's another saying ....

"You can only really be betrayed by those closest to you" --


i.e., those posing as your "friends" --

[sendero]

31. Simply put..

.... YOU DON'T GET IT.

... "takes more courage"? WE ARE NOT OBAMA's FRIENDS, We Get It. If this were the first time he folded like a paper napkin that would be one thing. But it is time after time after time after time. EVERY FUCKING TIME.

Fuck these idiots and everyone else that doesn't understand that we DID NOT INTEND TO ELECT A REPUBLICAN ASS KISSER and the MORE HE CAPITULATES THE MADDER WE GET.

When George fucking moron Bush was president he got damn near everything he wanted, even without congressional majorities. Many other presidents have also. WE GIVE OBAMA THE WHOLE SHOOTING MATCH AND WE CAN'T GET ONE REALLY GOOD PIECE OF LEGISLATION PASSED.

Tell me it's not his fault. It IS HIS FUCKING FAULT, AND NO AMOUNT OF HALF-ASS PSEUDO REASONING LIKE THIS changes a god damned thing.

[Dr.Phool]

35. I'll explain it to the turd way, as simply as I can.

FUCK YOU!

I barely noticed the cut in my taxes, so I'll barely notice the increase.

The Republicans are responsible for this. And all of the Neo-Repukes. DLC, New Dems, Blue Dogs, and other Republican enablers. And Obama.

[madfloridian]

36. Third Way calls us droppers or switchers...said we want compromise not principle stances.

I was just amazed to read this article at the Third Way site. Apparently it was printed in the Politico in November.

This is one of the most obvious pleas for a one party system that I have ever read. It is almost sickening it is so apparent what they mean.

The Third Way describes itself as the leading think tank for the progressive movement. Amazing how the term "progressive" has been abused.

About Us Who We Are

Third Way is the leading moderate think-tank of the progressive movement. Our aims: an economic agenda that is focused on growth and middle class success; a culture of shared values; a national security approach that is both tough and smart; and a clean energy revolution. We create high-impact products for use by elected officials, candidates and the Administration.

Our team is comprised of a former White House deputy and agency chief of staff, senior congressional aides, policy experts, nonprofit leaders and campaign veterans. We are governed by a prominent private sector Board of Trustees. We also have a dozen elected officials who serve as honorary co-chairs. Three of our former chairs now serve in the senior ranks of the Obama administration: Health & Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, and Under-Secretary of State Ellen Tauscher.

http://thirdway.org/about_us

Here is the article by Anne Kim. The message is clear. Compromise, don't stand on principle.

And that is exactly what our president is doing now. He is apparently heeding their advice.

Who really abandoned Dems?

I will put the last paragraph first as it is the most blatant piece of propaganda in the article.

The lesson for both parties here is that droppers and switchers—the swingiest of swing voters—aren’t thrilled with either Democrats or Republicans. But they both want progress. Overwhelming majorities of both switchers and droppers want Obama and the Republicans to compromise rather than stand on principle.

Maybe it’s time to listen.

Did you get that? They want Obama and the Republicans to compromise rather than stand

Third Way coined "droppers" and "switchers". Said they want to compromise not stand on principle.

More:

Many Democrats argue, and now believe, that disenchanted liberal base voters were the ones who stayed home and that this election was a referendum on the economy. Many Republicans, on the other hand, now believe their own press about a definitive, albeit tea party-tinged, mandate.

Conventional wisdom, it turns out, is wrong.

The Obama voters who stayed home this year (the “droppers”) or who switched their vote to Republican (the “switchers”) are neither disgruntled and de-motivated liberals. Nor are they raging tea partiers. Rather, they are overwhelmingly moderate to moderate conservative. Bipartisanship is what they demand. And the role of government, deficits and the economy are their major concerns.

They present all their findings with all the key talking points about how it was really the "moderates" who caused Obama to lose the election.

All the polls are racing now to prove that everyone has high approval of the president, and that no one disapproves.

The article's last paragraph sends the whole message, and the rest is just IMO skewed to that end.

[caseymoz]

38. This wasn't a compromise. It gave Republicans what they wanted most:

1) Extend the tax cuts for the wealthy for the rest of Obama's (one) term, and 2) for Social Security to be insolvent. That was everything they wanted.

Except they also wanted to make Obama a one-term president, and they've just about succeeded at that.

[Overseas]

42. They really don't understand those Droppers.

They're using Dick Morris talking points from Clinton's era.

But most of the 2010 Droppers were disillusioned. They knew it was time for FDR stuff again. Republican supply side lies had crashed our economy again, like they did in the late 20's.

When we got Democratic leadership pretending the Republicans had not failed massively, and that Democrats did not have a clear mandate to vigorously promote Democratic values like progressive taxation and national health security, those we had enticed to the polls with hope for significant changes stayed home.

If the outdated 3rd Way folks really thought Droppers and Switchers cared about bipartisanship, and that<'s what motivated their first 2 years of major compromising with failed Republican policies, then surely Democrats should have overtaken the house and senate in 2010. Time after time the 3rd Way Team compromised with the Republicans who had destroyed our economy. If bipartisanship was the path to success, they should have gained tons of seats in 2010.[br />
How can they say that something they tried over and over in their first two years, which failed miserably at gaining support in 2010, is still the pathway to success? I guess if you're determined to support failed policies like supply side economics, truth and hard evidence don't matter any more.

[madfloridian]

51. Yes, it appears Third Way et al will support failed policies...

probably because of who profits, not because they work for everyday people.

They just use the same words they used for years, recycling them a little. I mean I never heard droppers before...

[caseymoz]

37. There's an analogical difference between this and Nixon going to China.

That is, Nixon didn't give the Chinese California when he went there.

No, I don't even question his backbone at this point. I don't care what he has between his head and his ass, but he is such a fraud that I'm almost ready to become a birther.

[Overseas]

41. That 3rd way idea is such crap. It is much much easier to anger your friends.

The Republicans are bullies with tons of cash.

Much easier to beat up your tired over-worked neighbors who just want us all to get a bit of a better break for a change. After decades of politely waiting for a few crumbs to trickle down from the super rich whose incomes have soared.

If it was really so hard, why does it seem to be our president's first choice so much of the time?

[Raine]

43. "Courage"??? NO, it's COWARDLY to take on

your friends instead of your enemies. Keep doing that and soon you'll be out of friends, left on your own to fight those enemies that you don't have the courage to take on even with their help.

[Hannah Bell]

44. The "sister souljah moment" was a set up. i would bet decent money the sister

was in on the joke.

[tavalon]

45. The Third Way can have our mascot, the Jackass,

we don't need it anymore and clearly, they do. Let's pick a better mascot for the Progressives, shall we?

[tavalon]

46. Way to finally unite Democratic Underground, eh?

What a lousy week, month, year, two years! Wake me when this is over, geez!

[pattmarty]

47. It's bullshit. He is the one that said for the "base" to MAKE him do.........

..........the right thing. Such a waste, he may not have become Jesus OR FDR, but he SHOULD have been better than this. Bush for ALL his faults could get shit done (the wrong shit), and he and his people went on the road to push a particular idea. Look at his big push to privatize SS, it didn't work, but you couldn't fault him for trying. This fucking guy just lays down. In my lifetime I can't think of a weaker President in his first two years except maybe Carter.

[Roy Rolling]

49. lost in translation

I think they meant to use the word "stupidity"----as in "it takes much more stupidity to anger your friends"

[jtown1123]

52. Just FYI Third Way is a Corporatist Group. They are funded by huge corporations

Donors listed in this blog post by Jane Hamsher: http://firedoglake.com/2010/12/07/pbs-newshour-third-way-mainstreams-corporatism-using-progressive-rhetoric/

[Raksha]

54. Maybe we never WERE Obama's base. Maybe he only scammed us into believing we were.

More and more I'm starting to consider that possibility. Over the past few days I've also been remembering da Shrub's notorious statement to a roomful of right-wing gazillionaires: "...but I call you my base."

I think we may have to consider the possibility that Obama's base and Shrub's base are one and the same.

[blackspade]

57. Me neither.

This is the most pitiful example of political negotiation that I have ever seen.
And here I thought that the health care 'debate' was bad.

[Octafish]

58. What it shows is ''We'' are not his friends. The people he doesn't yell at, Wall Street MIC types...

...also benefit the most from the tax cuts.

I am so grateful for Bernie Sanders the Independent Socialist and a good number of Democrats right now...At least a few remember when John F. Kennedy met with the steel executives and negotiated a deal to hold the line on price increases. The greedheads reneged.

"My father always told me all business men were sons of bitches," Kennedy said. "But I never believed it until now."

http://books.google.com/books?id=DoUVzs0I5egC&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=jfk+steel+executives+sons+of+bitches&source=bl&ots=oRMvMQdB56&sig=JxDla0n_-nbtxoPFLUWJvGn37C0&hl=en&ei=VKwCTezTKtCgnQeoq4XlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false